387. Supernatural Mysteries: From UFOs to Bigfoot - Dr. Simeon Hein

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Kara Gooodwin: Welcome to the Meditation Conversation, the podcast to support your spiritual revolution. I'm your host, Kara Goodwin. Okay, hold on to your hats. This is such a cool episode with Dr. Simeon Hine. We talk about some of my favorite topics like ETs, UFOs, crop circles, Bigfoot, dog man, and more.

Have you ever heard of a pterodactyl type bird that people have seen across America? I'd never even heard of this. This is another topic that comes up. Dr. Hein has a really unique perspective. He applies his academic rigor to studying paranormal phenomenon. Which makes for a really fruitful discussion.

Dr. Simeon Hein is a former university professor in statistics and research methods. He came across the idea of remote viewing in 1996 and took a [00:01:00] training class as a skeptic. The results of the training were surprisingly positive and convinced him that there's a large area of scientific knowledge that's being withheld from public discussion.

Subsequently, he established the nonprofit Institute for Resonance and began teaching remote viewing classes in Boulder, Colorado, and he continues to teach online. He's also become interested in the topics of crop circles, unexplained aerial phenomenon, and extraterrestrials. So before we start, I want to let you know about Love Tuner.

 I had Love Tuner founders Sigmar I had Love Tuner's founder Sigmar Berg on a recent episode where we talked about the magic of sound frequencies, specifically the love frequency of 528.

Love Tuner gives you simple and immediate access to this frequency throughout your day. There's so many benefits From utilizing the power of the breath, to being in the sound itself, just taking a couple of minutes of pause. I've personally loved using it for infusing frequency into different rooms and [00:02:00] spaces.

Use my link in the show notes and code Kara for 10 percent off. That's K A R A for 10 percent off Love Tuner. And now enjoy this episode. Well, welcome, Simeon. I'm so excited to have you here today. Thanks for being on the meditation conversation.

Dr. Simeon Hein: Yeah, thanks, Kara. Thanks for having me here.

Kara Gooodwin: So I have been really looking forward to this conversation. Um, I would love to talk about how you went from being a university professor to focusing on supernatural topics like crop circles and remote viewing and bigfoot. Thank you so much.

Dr. Simeon Hein: Well, I used to teach statistics and research methods, and that was my background in sociology.

Kara Gooodwin: of these

Dr. Simeon Hein: And I felt like even back in the 80s and 90s, when I was getting my degree, that there were some limitations to statistics that weren't really being discussed by other academics. It seemed like the main focus [00:03:00] was to get publications and kind of to fit in.

into the academic system. But the methods that we were using, uh, back then, you know, they were just overly linear, overly, based on averages in this idea of a standard deviation. They were overly based on this idea of normalcy. And even back in the eighties, It just seemed to me that these are assumptions that might not fit living systems.

I mean, they might describe some aspects of populations and things where you do find averages, like maybe in heights of people or, you know, um, average tree growth size or something. But when you're talking about things that are cultural and have a social aspect to them. Religious [00:04:00] aspects. systems that can interact in ways that are, can produce chaotic outcomes.

Maybe we, the methods we were using were blinding us to the realities that we should be studied. that was really driven home because I was at the University of Arizona in Tucson and they had a really good astrophysics program. And I used to go to the lectures at the Uh, planetarium once a week and you really had these top astrophysicists and I was hearing about dark energy and dark matter and maybe other models of how the universe would work.

And it just seemed to me that social science. Was working on, you know, I went into one of my thesis supervisors, one of my supervisors, I said, you know, I've been in astrophysics around astrophysics people. Uh, this really seems Newtonian what we're doing here. And he goes, no, it's pre Newtonian. You're right.

We haven't found a model. So in the absence of real scientific principles, we were just adopting [00:05:00] these ideas from statistics, which nowadays are really being questioned, uh, from Fisher, Pearson, and Galt, people that started the eugenicists movement, you know, this idea that some races were superior to others.

You know, to other racial groups, ethnic groups. And they were using statistics with this idea of normalcy. So it just felt something felt off to me about it. And I came across the ideas of fractal geometry a little later on chaos theory, which said that there can be other basis bases for how systems organize themselves, which don't have any defined metric.

They don't have one preferred scale. That's what statistics was telling us that there's like a preferred measurement. There's a preferred average, like a unit that, that would be like the main thing you'd compare everything to else do. But, but fractal geometry was telling us that there could [00:06:00] be systems like nature, like tree branches.

And like the way your heart is wound in a spiral or your bronchial system, which kind of branches out into finer and finer, uh, capillaries for the blood to get everywhere. And those are not based on any scale, they're called scale free. So once I came across these scale free models, Which was very new back in the nineties.

Kara chaos theory was just something that was being created. The idea that little outcomes, little changes can have big outcomes, the butterfly effect and so forth. Yeah. That, so there was a Santa Fe Institute that existed back then and I started reading their articles and it occurred to me, there could be a range of phenomena that had never been recognized by science.

I just had that intuitive feeling. There were probably. Things that exist that science hadn't recognized because it was looking through these linear direct causal [00:07:00] models, which may not be how reality really works, it's how social science works. It's not necessarily how reality works. And I'm not trying to like put social science down completely and say, it's a total bunch of BS.

I mean. There's been a lot of wonderful anthropologists and social scientists over the years that made us sensitive to the fact that different peoples, different ethnic groups, uh, do see things differently and have different organizations and it works for them and it may not be how your society works but that's how their society works and that's a very interesting realization.

But I did find the formal math side of it to be too limited. So I was on the outlook for other phenomena, which might fit the fractal chaotic sort of outlook more than linear direct causal models.

[00:08:00] Yep,

Kara Gooodwin: I feel them as well in terms of you weren't saying this, but there's an element to it of like, here's what we want to prove. So let's massage it until it fits into what we already understand. And, um, but then to have experienced, you know, that and the limitations. I love these supernatural topics that you love to explore. Crop circles, remote viewing, Bigfoot, extraterrestrials, , Was it a big leap for you to go from that university setting to that?

Dr. Simeon Hein: Um, somewhat to some degree. Yes. But, uh, I had had a UFO sighting with my mom in the Everglades when I was only 12 or 13. And that was something always at the back of my mind. I mean, not like the close part of the back of the mind, like way back there. You remember That you had this experience.

Kara Gooodwin: way back.

Dr. Simeon Hein: Yeah,

Kara Gooodwin: So way back.

Dr. Simeon Hein: [00:09:00] like a teenager, preteen, you have this sighting.

Kara Gooodwin: fit into any of

your experiences. It's not part of the normalcy

of your data

Dr. Simeon Hein: mom was an alternative thinker. Uh, she just passed on recently. We had the memorial just last

Kara Gooodwin: Oh, I'm sorry. Wow.

Dr. Simeon Hein: No, no. She was 94 and, and she lived a good full life and she had so many friends that showed up and, and people have pointed out to me that my interest in these alternative topics started with a permission from her cause she was into alternative health, Eastern religions, Buddhism, and homeopathy and things that, that were non.

Traditional from a Western point of view, Western civilization point of view. So it sort of opened my mind up to other possibilities. And when I was with her that day in the Everglades, I mean, this was a large object as large as a full moon on the horizon [00:10:00] overhead that was amorphous and solid because we had binoculars.

We could look inside the cloud, like circular cloud, like structure and see something solid surrounded by a cloud, like. Green cloud. And then it went from completely stationary to moving very quickly into another cloud. And um, we went to the ranger talk, you know, I mean, things started moving from nothing to fast into a cloud as soon as we started looking at it with binoculars.

Could have been coincidence, but It's a large object. It's up there. It doesn't fit anything. You can understand as a 12 or 13 year old. My mom said it was a UFO and we went to the Ranger talk and the Ranger wouldn't, she raised her hand, you know, who saw anything interesting that they want to share, you know, any storks, herons, alligators.

My mom said, wait, yeah, my mom, we saw a UFO. We were sitting in the front row at the end. It was a blackout by now. All the power was up, even made it more suspicious [00:11:00] and the people next to us had seen it. So, I mean, and the ranger would not talk about it. She just wanted to keep moving on. My mom finally went up at the end of the talk and she said, oh, there are blackouts all the time.

You probably saw a weather balloon, stuff like that. So I think from that early time, I had a question mark in my mind, which is probably how they get to us is they started making impressions on you when you're pretty young, somehow. Anyway, Ma Jane always said, that's when they zapped you. That's when you got interested in all that.

And it could be true because Cara, I forgot about it. No one ever talked about UFOs ever anywhere I was ever at. Not in high school except to say that it was mostly weather balloons and swamp gas. This is in the 70s when I went to high school. College, never heard it mentioned once. You know, now that you mentioned it, I did have a, I had, I was taking a camera class and I had one of those manual Olympus cameras.

And I remember taking a picture of a [00:12:00] jet I saw over the Amherst area in Massachusetts, and it was doing these crazy eight maneuvers. And I said, what the heck is it doing? And I took a couple of pictures and there was like an object off the wing in different places in three of the shots. And, uh, when I looked at that later, I thought, Whoa, what, what was that?

It's something in a couple of shots. So it's not just dust. And it was a round object off the wing. Like it was trying to escape something. And, uh, I, I took the photos myself, so I knew that I'd developed them in the photo lab. So that's something else that happened when I would have been about 20 years old.

And, uh, so then I go to the university of Arizona and there's all this astrophysics, as I mentioned, and I think by, but I never heard anyone talk about UFOs. It wasn't something I talked about with friends. I never heard about it. I did find a book that I must have bought back then called Above Top Secret by Timothy Good.

Which came out in the [00:13:00] eighties when I was at the University of Arizona. So I bet I saw that on the university bookstore shelf. And I think I have a copy of it. In fact, I have two copies of it. So I must've bought it back then, uh, and put it away and just started looking at it, you know? And so this is how reality changes for us.

I'll also say that since this show is the meditation conversation, I learned TM when I was 14. There was a TM center at White Plains, New York, and my mom had learned it. And she said I came to her one day and said, Mom, I want to learn TM. So at 14, I got a mantra, which I've been practicing for over 50 years now.

Kara Gooodwin: Wow.

Dr. Simeon Hein: meditation. And it's best if you can do it twice a day, but you don't always fit that in. But I've been meditating since 1970s. So, uh, that could be another aspect, even though when you do meditation, you're not [00:14:00] looking for anything to happen. This has no connection to me, to the paranormal, with the exception of one weird out of body experience only happened once when I was meditating, where I felt I was floating above my body.

It was an interesting sensation. And as I opened my eyes came back, but I really felt like it was up there looking down. And it only happened once.

Kara Gooodwin: Yeah.

Dr. Simeon Hein: But normally, as you know, in meditation, you're not looking for anything to happen. It's not like nowadays where people want to have an experience. You're looking for a non experience of experience of Of, of, of quiet, of non thinking,

Kara Gooodwin: Yeah.

Dr. Simeon Hein: just that feeling.

And the longer you do meditation, the easier it is to snap into that state, which seems to me now that I know, know a little more about brain states, like an alpha state or something, you're actually attempting to slow down thinking with the mantra and then let the mantra go and just experience that sense of lack of separation for, you know, 20 minutes or however long you're there.[00:15:00]

So to Kara, that's my background. There was no. Contact. I had the book. I'd had the sighting, maybe a second sighting or a photograph. Uh, I grew up here in the Hudson Valley, which had a black triangles in the eighties.

Kara Gooodwin: What are those UFO phenomenon?

I'm not familiar with that.

Dr. Simeon Hein: Yeah. The Hudson Valley. If you look it up, the Hudson Valley UFOs flap in the eighties, thousands of people saw these large black triangles hover speed off, you know, low on the ground over, you know, period of maybe 10 years.

Kara Gooodwin: Oh,

Dr. Simeon Hein: Connecticut, New Jersey. I've interviewed some of those witnesses who saw it. It happened right in this area. It hovered over the Indian Point nuclear power plant. Uh, helicopters were sent in. So, I mean, if they're dispatching helicopters, they don't know what it is. Guards were [00:16:00]pretty close to shooting at it at one point.

It was that low over one of the reactors. And, uh, but here's what I found out recently. And I wrote about this in Black Swan Ghosts, my, one of my books about the topic about UFO witnesses, there was a sighting from our high school class that I only found out about around 2021

Kara Gooodwin: What? Hmm.

Dr. Simeon Hein: in the revised edition of Black Swan Ghosts.

It was the wrestling team coming out of the neighboring high school, saw a black triangle about, um, About, uh, half, about a half a mile over the high school gym, American high school, and they didn't, so this is the thing. They never talked about it. The wrestling coach called the police. He did the best he could.

And we have the articles, a friend of mine, Dom, who I've known since kindergarten found on microfiche. He went to the library a year ago and found the [00:17:00] articles about other people, seeing it, calling the police. So there are multiple people. We have the police report. And there were jets that came from the direction of Connecticut that tried to chase it.

And according to the wrestling team, it just sped off like the Starship Enterprise at warp speed in the direction of New Jersey. But the main thing is I didn't hear about this until, you know, it's 40 years after it happens over 40 years later. And this is what we call in sociology, hidden events, things that people experience that they don't want to talk about.

Because of fear of ridicule and ostracism and hostility from family and neighbors and maybe your employers fire you and pilots face this and law enforcement and people who do professional observers are faced with this dilemma all the time because they're told in their organization you shouldn't talk about this.

So this makes it interesting from a sociological perspective. So there was that encounter in high school, which [00:18:00] I, I mean, you wonder, how did you get involved with these things? It was their classmates. I knew saw it, but they didn't say anything care. And one of them I'm told was a kid. I, I knew said, it was the scariest thing you'd ever seen, you know, typical black triangle with the lights at the corners.

And, you know, unknown technology. So those are early events. What really triggered it for me to get involved with this was I had been teaching as an assistant professor, uh, statistics and stuff like this. And then, uh, I was in Boulder, Colorado, and I heard somebody talking about remote viewing. On the KGNU community radio station.

And I didn't believe it actually. I mean, I didn't believe that everybody had a natural psychic ability. I had seen those TV shows in the eighties with those three [00:19:00] women psychics. There was a TV show. They would have Bevy Yeagers and two other psychics. And I got to meet Bevy Yeagers later at the IRVA meetings, International Remote Viewing Association meetings.

She was one of the women on there and they would work police cases and things like this. And I had seen this and it seemed like they would get results, but I thought you had to be special. I didn't realize that. Anyone could do it. So when I heard this, I thought maybe this is one of those types of topics that I suspected existed that science wouldn't have covered because it's based on something else.

Another set of principles, fractal geometry, where everything is sort of interconnected from the macro to the micro and so forth. Self self similar repeating patterns. That, that, that nature is really based on electromagnetism and so forth. So that's why, that's how I got into all of these topics. It started with a remote viewing class that I took [00:20:00] in 1996 at a place called the Farsight Institute in Atlanta, Georgia.

Kara Gooodwin: Oh, fascinating. Well, and I know that, um, Bigfoot is one of the topics that you research and,

and explore, and that is a topic that I find fascinating. I mean, all of these topics

I'm fascinated by, but I don't think I've had really that many people on. the podcast who can talk about Bigfoot. So, um, I would love to understand or give you a chance to talk about if you've had experiences or, or what you understand about the topic of Bigfoot.

Dr. Simeon Hein: Yes, it's absolutely fascinating. Uh, my first interest were actually just in remote viewing and crop circles just because we remote viewed a crop circle. Remote viewing is ability to perceive things at a distance without your physical senses. And I was just in these two areas of remote viewing and I started going to England to see crop circles because [00:21:00] people said there were strange effects, electromagnetic effects, and I had done an RV session and wanted to know what they were.

Since no one had ever told me what a crop circle was, you know, these patterns that appear in grain crops and so forth and how that transition to Bigfoot is a very interesting story because the students in my remote viewing class at Mount Baldy Institute in Boulder, Colorado, would tell me about their Bigfoot encounters in the Rocky mountains and I heard a number of these stories.

And my ears started to perk up because I thought this might be another phenomenon that social science science had pushed aside because it didn't fit a normal distribution. And that turned out to be correct. It, it was rare enough that there weren't enough sightings that you could consider to be an outlier.

And in social science, you would throw outliers out. Because they would mess up your nice linear [00:22:00] models and you were allowed to throw out outliers. The problem is let's say the outlier throwing out matters and it's something that's rare, but could be significant. That's the danger is you're using preconceptions to throw away data.

So people in my classes were telling me about their big foot encounters. And I was a bit incredulous a little bit, the way I approached RV. I found that RV worked like a lot of people you could describe and draw pictures of. targets that were hidden in folders much more than you would expect than we were led by our educational system to believe.

And the same thing happened with Bigfoot. I initially thought it was this rare forest ape that was confined to the Cascade Mountains in Washington State and maybe Oregon a bit, you know. And there was that famous Bluff Creek footage from Patterson and Gimlin in 1967 where you see the creature they called Patty.

And I'd seen that, I did see that as a preview to a movie. In a movie theater in the seventies, like a 10 minute little documentary from [00:23:00] Oregon. It was like a kind of thing where they pretended to be on site, you know, and they had loggers around and it was sort of staged, but they did show the Patterson Gimlin film and they said, this is where it happened.

And I think that's at the back of my mind too. I had no contact with Bigfoot until people started talking about it in the late 90s in my RV class because I had listened to late night radio and I thought like we had heard from these Cryptozoologist, cryptozoology being, you know, science of rare animals, hidden animals.

I just thought it was an ordinary animal that was rare that maybe, maybe there's an ape left over from another time in the deep woods. And it's so rare, you'll never see it. type thing until I started talking to the students in my RV class. Uh, one of them had been pulled out of his tent in the middle of the [00:24:00] night camping as a teenager up in Nederland near Boulder by something really fast and really strong, and he said it was like a rocket.

And there was nobody there when he got out of the finally got out of the sleeping bag. But he said the G forces were so strong you couldn't get out of the bag while it was pulling you. That's pretty strong. And it's a campground with no people, no cars around. Something's coming out, you know, in the back of my mind, maybe some weird person up there doing this.

But this guy was six foot four. Who experienced this. And I mean, he's a big guy, weighs a lot. It'd be really hard to pull him that fast in a tent, uh, in a sleeping bag with G forces saw that was interesting. And then I spoke to someone that had a telepathic contact, which really started me thinking back then she was up in her room in North of Colorado Springs in the area called the black forest, Northeast, it's semi wooded in a house, which we later [00:25:00] located.

on a map, and I made a video with her, Barb, and it's on my YouTube channel. Uh, we found a picture of the house and so forth, and the way it currently looks, and it was the same. And this creature had jumped up on the deck next to the kitchen, and her friend had seen it, uh, roommate had seen it through the French doors in the kitchen, but Barb was upstairs, and she said the image was broadcast into her mind of what it looked like, and it's what her friend had seen through her eyes.

Came to bar of an orange faced Bigfoot with sort of a flat face and she heard the scream of it, the howl scream. And so that wasn't, and by the time she got downstairs, it had already gone, but that was, I started thinking, was there a connection from RV to Bigfoot? I mean, how would it project itself into your mind?

Well, uh, Cara doing more research. This is very common. People get these mental projections of Bigfoot, especially when the [00:26:00] Bigfoot want you to come out of your house or cabin or tent. They will project imagery into your mind. The Native Americans have spoken about this. And how I learned about this is, there was a museum in the area called the Bailey Sasquatch Outpost.

Museum in a sense. I thought it was just an old dusty cowboy museum of, you know, maybe Stories from the past drawings, but it was very up to date and they had a map that showed the contact with Bigfoot in the Boulder area, front range area from Bailey up to Boulder, up to Fort Collins. And there were a lot of little dots on that map recently.

I mean, not from years ago, like recent dots of footprints or people hearing the howls or trees. Free structures and sightings. And when I looked at that map, you know, like these bells went off in my head, just like happened with rv. It's like, uh, here's another hidden event. Here's something that people are experiencing, but [00:27:00] they're not talking about.

And so that's really where it all started for me, is I realized it's happening. People are seeing it. So I went to this site called Bigfoot researchers organization.net bfr o net. And this was a compendium of some sightings across the United States that people would. And I looked in, I started reading the reports from Colorado, from Boulder County, and there were kids who said a monster looked in my window and the windows eight feet off the ground, uh, said, mommy, a monster was looking in the window and you gotta go outside and see some big footprints.

There were sightings in the local parks, not many, but some over the years. And the people that said we didn't report it for 10 years. Students, we thought it might affect our career. You know,

I started going to conferences [00:28:00] and the, what I heard from these very experienced Bigfoot researchers was some, I mean, it did not fit the profile of a relic hominid, relic primate. Any sort of animal I was familiar with, the creatures could become invisible. They were seen by around orbs. They could make howl growl sounds that people would say was the largest.

Sound they ever heard in their lives that made their clothing vibrate or their internal organs vibrate, like being in front of a speaker at a rock concert. Like a heavy metal concert. And if you've ever been to a con, you know, that feeling they would feel, but that's yet someone a hundred miles, a hundred feet away in the same campground heard nothing.

And finally, something that paralleled back to crop circles, battery and camera failure, electromagnetics.

Kara Gooodwin: Wow.

Dr. Simeon Hein: my mind really started to [00:29:00] think, well, wait a minute. How's there a connection to crop circles to Bigfoot, unless they're both using a similar type of electromagnetic principle, which could wipe out batteries and cameras and give people a sense of time space distortion where they would feel confused.

At this first conference I went to in Bailey, it was called the Russia America conference because they had Igor Bortsev, who's the first researcher I ever talked to, but he's from Russia and they studied it seriously in Soviet Union. Now what's left of it, Russia, they called it hominology and they, they had concluded it was some sort of paranormal creature because of the types of things I just mentioned, the strange electromagnetic effects, the mental confusion people experienced, the invisibility.

Igor described. What one witness told him in a Moscow garden, it was like a curtain of light came down a sparkly curtain of light and the creature was [00:30:00] gone. And they were able to estimate how tall the creature was from the telephone poles behind it. And he showed us this picture, you know, something nine feet tall.

I later talked to other witnesses, people who had never really spoken to anyone. That's the same sort of thing here in the U. S. It's kind of a sparkly curtain of light, and it's gone. It's very consistent. So, the scientist in you, Kara, says, Look, we've got this consistent testimony from witnesses around these phenomena.

It's not just one or two people. It's like every time you're talking to someone about this, you're hearing the same thing from people who've never Really been involved in the area. Like people who just come to conferences that I'm curious, I was just sure to learn more and you'd ask them why they were interested in, they tell you about their sighting, things like that.

So the more evidence I encountered, the more I realized there was something similar to RV and crop circles, even UFOs, because you see orbs around UFOs, balls of light. You [00:31:00] see them around crop circles and Sasquatch. So, and RV had always been unexplained too of how is it we're accessing something at a distance with that high degree of accuracy.

So reading about all these subjects, you know, even RV, you realize people had orbs show up around their, uh, RV sessions. There's someone at Farsight experienced this. Once I became a teacher there who said it came into the room and you're not sure. I mean, are they imagining this? Is it really happening?

But they feel like it happened when you talk to them, they're absolutely sure it happened. And you find, You find these similar phenomena around a lot of subjects that we call paranormal, which led me to think that what we call paranormal is another type of physics with a different set of rules. And now that I know more about it, it's called coherent matter.

It's a fifth state of matter past plasmas, which are nebulas and [00:32:00] aurora borealis and fluorescent light bulbs. Those are all examples of plasma. And you, you get certain types of similar experiences around coherent matter. One of them just being sudden temperature changes. You'll have the room get colder.

The people even around cold fusion and Lennar reactors. Fleshman and Pons 1989 University of Utah. What was called cold fusion. People have said their rooms became cold, but you get this around Bigfoot. You get this around ghosts and things. So I began to see, you know, this is how your train. This is how it goes back to academics in a very beautiful way.

You're trained to simplify things. You're I guess there's some fundamental principles behind what you're looking at, where you can simplify what looks like a lot of different phenomena into maybe one equation, ultimately, or one phenomena. I mean, E equals mc squared being the best example we know about where Einstein says energy and matter are the [00:33:00] same thing.

A kind of mind blowing concept from a hundred years ago, you think heat and matter are two separate things, but they're the same thing, just at a different frequency, which is what quantum mechanics tells us. So I began to see this and I wasn't trying to force everything into a box, but it's just being around people in remote viewing, meeting UFO witnesses, just at conferences, going to those.

hearing the experiences of people around UFOs, extraterrestrials, or whoever those creep, those occupants are, whoever those beings are. And then biggest surprise around Bigfoot, something I didn't experience growing up here on the East Coast. I mean, I didn't experience people talking about it, but people out West do occasionally talk about it.

It's a little more common out there, even though Bigfoot's even in your state. I mean, Bigfoot's in every state. And, uh, yeah. It didn't really fit the profile of some escaped gorilla or [00:34:00] North American wood ape like some researchers, uh, John Bindernagel from Canada. Above me at WSU when I was getting my PhD was Grover Krantz.

He was one floor up in the anthropology department and he was the first US academic to study Bigfoot and at the time they thought it was a remnant of Gigantopithecus, this very large ancient primate that was discovered in China. They only had, I think, a jaw. And based on the jaw, they extrapolated the size and it went extinct millions and millions of years ago, and there's no evidence it came to North America, but people were thinking maybe it's a relic of Gigantopithecus, and I, you can understand the logic there, but Kara, back in the 80s, That just for academics to mention something like Bigfoot would cause them a lot of grief in their departments, [00:35:00] maybe lack of promotion because it would be considered like weird and anyone who had seen it since the fifties in the U.

1. or earlier. I mean, back then they thought they were, they called them escaped gorillas. They didn't know what else to call them. Wild men, um, The cowboys had names from mountain devils,

Kara Gooodwin: Hmm.

Dr. Simeon Hein: then Native Americans, uh, had their own names for them, and the Native Americans said they would trade with them. So it doesn't really sound like an animal anymore.

And when you bring in all these paranormal, quote unquote, effects, of the sense of space time distortion, mental confusion, invisibility, orbs, and This sort of ability to project sound in a very directed way. It just seems it's something actually more evolved than we are.

our paranormal. It's something how these creatures exist and it, it involves other types of science than we're, we're exposed to.

We're used to.

Kara Gooodwin: I love how you have, um, that scientific [00:36:00] approach that you're talking about where it's like, okay, what's the common denominator here? And you've got that space time anomaly, the, the confusion and so forth. Something that you said with Bigfoot that caught my attention is that they would, um, well, all of it caught my attention to be honest, but, but the telepathy and that, um, it's a known phenomenon that they will. Project into people's minds when they want them to come out. And then you've got the other story of the man in the tent and he like drags him, you know, to, to say the least, um, out of the tent is, are there, is there any speculation about why they would want certain people out? Like, what is the motivation?

Dr. Simeon Hein: It's a really good question. They seem to like to, they seem to enjoy meeting people.

Kara Gooodwin: Is there like a certain type of. Have you come across that? Like they're drawn to certain types of [00:37:00] people or?

Dr. Simeon Hein: I can't quite figure it out. It can be hostile too, so you have to be careful. They're known to take people back to their places, even children. And they don't necessarily harm them. Sometimes they just, I've talked to people who've spent time around them as kids in Utah. They never, this person actually thought of writing a book about it and then burnt it, burnt the book.

They just shredded it. They thought people aren't ready for this. But I've heard these stories. I've talked to people on the Navajo Reservation. That they would take children and just feed them and take care of them and bring them back out of perhaps out of curiosity

Kara Gooodwin: And was it like a, did it seem as though they were taking them to a different dimension or was it a third dimensional,

Dr. Simeon Hein: Hard to say it's hard to say where they are but they you do report this in dream times people start having dreams about them [00:38:00] and They incur it want you to come outside and I haven't, I don't have enough information to follow up on the people that did go outside. I mean, I know people that have very, you know, affirming positive relations with the Sasquatch in their backyards and where they live, people in remote parts of Oregon and Washington state who are used to having them around.

And there's this gifting relationship where you

Kara Gooodwin: with apples?

Dr. Simeon Hein: And they leave crystals and, you know, little field mice wrapped in grass and things like this.

Kara Gooodwin: Is there something also with arches where they bend branches into arches?

Dr. Simeon Hein: so. They, they mark their, they, they do something with this branches and tree structures. There's a wide range of, it's a very complex topic. There's a wide range of relationships between human and Sasquatch. I mean, [00:39:00] some are beneficial and some are completely hostile going back to native American lore.

We shouldn't be too sanguine about it. We want them to be friendly forest giants, but some of them are, are pretty aggressive. And they're, they don't like people, but there are others that do. And I've read many encounters of them, uh, rescuing people in dangerous situations, moving people's tents in a good way during blizzards, where the people said they were, they would have been covered in snow if the Sasquatch hadn't moved the tent while they're in it.

I mean, literally dragged the tent to another better location. They do all sorts of stuff out there. Um, uh, they, they can rescue people who've been lost, people who are injured out in the woods. I've heard stories of them carrying people back to their relatives homes. from Native Americans after an injury, after being thrown off a horse, things like this.[00:40:00]

In fact, the very first case I heard about this that started getting my mind thinking was at a UFO conference outside of Scottsdale. I think it's Fountain Hills, uh, Native American reservation there, to the east of Scottsdale, Arizona. And this fellow said, Sim, Sim, you ought to look at this topic. My grant, my aunt was thrown off a horse during a race, and uh, Sasquatch, she said something big.

Picked her up, big and hairy, and moved her off the trail to safety. And, uh, I, again, it didn't quite click. I couldn't, I didn't have a box to put this in at the UFO conference. It's getting, what are. What are Sasquatch doing in my UFO conference? How's it, you know, but there's this connection, people see them in the same area that researcher Stan Gordon from Pennsylvania has written extensively about this, his book is called silent invasion, the UFOs Bigfoot connection from the seventies, the seventies wave, early seventies in Pennsylvania.

So there is this connection. And, uh, part of it is Kara that we're all [00:41:00] very boxed into the. We have these mental categories that we feel comfortable with. Even people that research paranormal topics, non ordinary science topics can get boxed in and you think, you know, I don't want UFOs at my Sasquatch conference because it's an ape.

It has nothing to do with, that's how bigfoot researchers feel me. I don't want to hear about paranormal. I'm told that some of those organizations edit out anything that's. Sounds like paranormal or quantum mechanics from the witness reports. The witnesses will talk about this and it won't be in the final.

The UFO researchers can feel, Hey, we're talking about little guys getting in a metal craft from Alpha Centauri. It has nothing to do with a relic primate on earth, but you get the reports of them in the same space. Uh, it may not make sense to our logical mind, but it suggests another type of reality around us.

So, [00:42:00] uh, yeah, the more I researched it, the more I heard these types of contact, the people's feeling that the Sasquatch was, you could hear them asking you to come out. They could speak a modicum of whatever language they're around,

Kara Gooodwin: Hmm.

Dr. Simeon Hein: or just that feeling to, and people say they, they would start to open the door up.

I mean, they were hypnotized almost.

Kara Gooodwin: Oh,

Dr. Simeon Hein: I don't have enough. Information. I know some of these people actually have disappeared.

Kara Gooodwin: really?

Dr. Simeon Hein: Yeah. Some of these people have disappeared, but many of them, you know, they encountered them and it was okay. It's like dealing with humans. There are all types of people on the planet and, and some, many are okay and some are not.

Kara Gooodwin: Yeah.

Well, and who knows?

Dr. Simeon Hein: it's like. Yep.

Kara Gooodwin: Yeah. And it's hard to say if they've just, if people have disappeared in that way. Even if that was hostile. I mean, it's hard to

know, like, what were the [00:43:00] circumstances? Was it like, I mean, just completely

like brainstorming, but it's like, it could be, oh my God, I'm home.

Dr. Simeon Hein: That's how,

Kara Gooodwin: been waiting for this.

And I didn't even know.

Dr. Simeon Hein: no, I think that's a big possibility too, because there have been sightings of these people who disappeared and people have seen them with Sasquatch voluntarily with Sasquatch out there in these national parks. So some of it seems to be that people switched their tribe to the Sasquatch and it could be because they're another type of human.

They're related to us in some way on the family tree in ways. I don't totally understand that we're relatives of theirs. So it does seem that some people have wanted to go with them. Uh, yeah, you've read these cases where people feel like they just want to stay around more at these campsites that start to feel weird to some of the people and they're not found again.

Yeah, some there's just a variety of outcomes. Um, it's something to [00:44:00] be discussed more seriously. Our society doesn't seem to want to deal with these topics. And this is a very challenging one. And I think that a lot of the interests out there, National Park Service and agricultural interests, it would really mess up, it would disturb the apple cart because you might have to invoke Endangered Species Act.

I mean, it would require reclassification of land and bureaucrats would have to actually do something and think how to deal with this situation. When they were, I have a petition on change. org called, protect Bigfoot. And it's just for the fellow government to recognize publicly what they've put in their literature for the fire service.

And so forth, where they've talked about it and have reporting forums at these national forest areas for their employees, they don't talk about it publicly, and they don't encourage any of the people that work out there, national park rangers, [00:45:00] even though I'm told it's starting to change a little bit, but they don't, they threaten them not to talk about it.

And I I've heard cases of people say they were told they would be fired if they talked about their sighting, even though the supervisors knew exactly what they were talking about. And you talk to people that work in these forestry, um, departments within native American reservations. Mel Skahan's one from the Yakima tribe.

I got to go to a lot of, uh, Bigfoot conferences because I was in this film called a flash of beauty, paranormal Bigfoot. And it's on YouTube. Paranormal Bigfoot, it's a sequel to A Flash of Beauty, Bigfoot Revealed, which I saw, but then I was introduced to the people that made this film while they were making a sequel.

Mel was in those films, and he, he said, and I asked him about this in person, that the Forestry Department said, the Native American run [00:46:00] Forestry Department, that we're partners with Bureau of Indian Affairs, federal government, and if they hear us talking about this, they'll replace us with another forestry department.

We'll be disassembled. So this is the pressure, just like Air Force pilots who see these objects, and you know, Congress is talking about this now with closed door hearings, and we're hearing, we're, We're told there may be public hearings again. They had one last year, very briefly for one day with some of the witnesses from these intelligence agencies, but there's a lot of pressure on witnesses.

And again, this is what brings it back to sociology on witnesses. The stranger, the case, you know, as Jacques ballet, the UFO researcher said that the stranger, the experience, the stranger, the case, the less likely someone is to talk about it. And the greater the repercussions in their line of work, even.

Policemen and police women see this on the beat while they're on patrol. Um, [00:47:00] they are told to say, you saw, you know, they're told you saw a bear.

Kara Gooodwin: Hmm.

Dr. Simeon Hein: So we're not, we don't have a clear sense of reality because of the pressures to fit in, follow, follow the, you know, follow what everyone else is doing. and play the game.

But the cost of that is we don't have an accurate sense of our reality, of what's around us. And it isn't fair to the people that encounter these creatures. And there are other types besides Bigfoot that are even farther off on the strange scale.

Kara Gooodwin: Like dog, man.

Dr. Simeon Hein: Dogman, Thunderbirds,

Kara Gooodwin: What are thunderbirds?

Dr. Simeon Hein: They're like a pterodactyl, a

Kara Gooodwin: What?

Dr. Simeon Hein: really long winged pterodactyl, and many people have seen it across the United States.

I know for a fact that ornithologists have seen, I know of two cases of ornithologists seeing a pterodactyl, Thunderbird, and saying they never said a word about it in their department. And they're in a bird study program. [00:48:00] At their university. And they won't talk about it. They, one of them said they thought it was a Piper cub until it started flapping.

The wingspan is that large,

Kara Gooodwin: I don't know, what that one is.

Dr. Simeon Hein: foot wingspan.

Kara Gooodwin: Oh my word. How are they hiding?

Dr. Simeon Hein: Well, this is what the mystery is and why people like me, I mean, I wrote my most recent book was dark matter monsters about big foot and ball lightning and why orbs would show up around the creature and other types of creatures, including dog, man. And you get the sudden silence. Very quiet all of a sudden, the temperature changes, the blurriness, people even see the trees got a little blurry looking like there's some electromagnetic effect.

I mean, there's different ways to explain that. My feeling is they're made of another state of matter that can either become invisible or kind of merge into a parallel reality.

Kara Gooodwin: [00:49:00] Wow.

Dr. Simeon Hein: I think it has to do with parallel reality. I think that's the explanation that makes the most sense to me. And it's hard for our Western educated brains, Kara,

Kara Gooodwin: Yeah.

Dr. Simeon Hein: to believe that such a thing exists, but this is what we hear from witnesses over and over again.

They just faded away. Uh, where would they breed? Where would they live? Thunderbirds, pterodactyls. With satellites nowadays looking at everything, they see everything on Earth. Are they being scrubbed from the satellite images? Are they literally vanishing? We don't know, completely.

Kara Gooodwin: Well, what does, talk about ball lightning and what, what that is and what that has to do with that fifth state of matter,

Dr. Simeon Hein: Well, ball lightning is a type of coherent matter, and that's where the particles are all, similar frequency or similar temperature, you know, along some axis of variation, they all are the same. Think of it like a laser, where it doesn't just scatter anymore, it's very focused. Because all of the photons are at the same frequency [00:50:00] and they just keep going in the same direction, emit light in the same direction.

So ball lightning, something that's been studied for a few hundred years, and it has a lot of characteristics of what we call paranormal phenomena. It's also very rare, but it's

Kara Gooodwin: but naturally occurring. Okay.

Dr. Simeon Hein: occurs naturally 70 percent around thunderstorms, 30 percent in clear skies.

Kara Gooodwin: And what does it mean? Like, what does it look like to people who

Dr. Simeon Hein: it looks like

Kara Gooodwin: Like an orb.

Dr. Simeon Hein: it's just, it's a free floating fireball.

But it has the strangest effects. It can vaporize metal, like a necklace around your neck, a ring can disappear. It can cut like a knife. It can cause mental confusion, feelings of fear. Um, it can zap electronics and do all sorts of really strange things. It can reverse gravity and pull tiles off of a roof.

[00:51:00] And reports in the past that it could transport animals and people. So it has these anti gravity effects and some apparent space time shifting effects where people feel like they can't quite account for how the time passed. So it, it seems to be also another state of matter. And to me, the fact that it shows up around these cryptids, dogmen, Bigfoot, uh, and other scenarios, but also around earthquakes, preceding earthquakes and other phenomena that we're a little more familiar with.

It suggests to me that there's a family. Of matter that share similar characteristics. And this is why you get those orbs showing up around Bigfoot or why sometimes they're seen in the paranormal Bigfoot movie, the final two witnesses talk about seeing a Bigfoot turn into an orb and shoot off. It turned into an orange square and shot [00:52:00] off into the forest.

They said it would look like the sun, but it was square and it happened, right? They both saw it. It just couldn't dense down. It seems that we're around other types of life. And other types of energy that do not easily fit into the Newtonian 3D world that, uh, Euclidean world that we were brought up in, that has other very interesting non linear self organizing properties.

And it does relate to cold fusion, low energy nuclear reaction, because that is a type of micro ball lightning too. So it seems we're surrounded by this coherent matter ball lightning, even at a macroscopic microscopic scale. It's actually around us a lot of the time, but it's invisible. And this is the big thing that I've learned from all this is we're surrounded by phenomena that much of the time it's not visible.

And we're so empirically oriented in Western science that it's easy to [00:53:00] dismiss that, but. This is what the evidence seems to suggest, and people do see it with little static charges when you touch a doorknob or pull up the sheets on your bed and you see all the static that is around all the time, but you're not seeing it.

That's when it becomes visible. It seems that these life forms are hitching a ride on that type of matter and they can turn into that form of at least the invisible version of it because there's an invisible version of ball lightning to a stealth mode of ball lightning where it's around but you don't see it and it can be embedded in objects around us.

For a while without being active. So it seems to me that there's another type of matter around us. It's called coherent matter. It's been recognized by science and the both Einstein condensate. That was produced at the NIST labs in Boulder in 95, but that was a very cold state and just [00:54:00] brief amounts of time.

This is something that's like that. It's more sustained and it can exist at different temperatures. And Lockheed Martin applied for, was granted a patent in it. A number of years ago to create invisibility, uh, cloaking, some of the things that we see around these cryptids. So it's just interesting that defense contractors have sought patents in some of this technology, of course, they mentioned directed energy weapons, but they're also suggesting remote communications like RV.

So this is, and they're talking about coherent matter wave beams and they say. Exactly what I've been telling you here in this interview. It's something that was produced in the Bose Einstein condensate. Think of a flock of birds or schools official kind of in the same. kind of moving as a coherent thing.

Like you've seen those swarm, those murmurations of starlings, you have them in the Midwest and it looks like a big cloud of birds. That's the analogy for [00:55:00] coherent matter.

Kara Gooodwin: wow.

Dr. Simeon Hein: It's sort of given up some of their freedom to become like a group and they swarm in very interesting ways. No one's quite sure how they stay together.

That's coherent matter. And when you can control a group of particles like that at a distance, you can do a lot with them. And it seems that these cryptids through sound, it can be done through sound, cavitation, acoustics. They've somehow figured this out, which knocks us off the totem pole of being the top species.

We always thought we were the top dog on the planet, but we're not. I just have to say, we're not, we think we are maybe technologically we can do things they can't, but they can do things, project themselves into people's minds. We go invisible, um, move at speeds that are just incomprehensible. They're very fast.

Uh, and, uh, just have abilities that we humans, [00:56:00] we may have, maybe if you meditated long enough. and perfected the cities from those ancient Ayurvedic texts in India, you would develop these extraordinary abilities, but they seem to have them naturally.

Kara Gooodwin: Yeah.

Dr. Simeon Hein: my feeling about it. Is there more in some ways more advanced than we are?

Kara Gooodwin: That's amazing. Do you have, so from all, because you have so much, um, research, you have so much knowledge from your years of studying these types of phenomenon. Does one, as we close out here, is there one kind of Story that you'd like to share. That's kind of a personal encounter in any of the paranormal realms that we've talked about.

Dr. Simeon Hein: Yeah, there are just so many different encounters. Um, I keep thinking about that fellow back at the rv institute who was a railway conductor. He's passed on now He didn't want his family to know about this, but he had the ball of light come into his [00:57:00] Room while he was doing a, a session. And, when he went home, he was upset enough about that.

He told me I didn't sign up for this. You know, uh, he felt physically burned by this thing that was hovering over. I mean, he tried to touch it. It's hovering over his desk. Then he goes home and he sees a reptile show up, A humanoid reptile show up in his bedroom. Or is it the living room? A couple days after getting back from Farsi, it had opened up some part of his mind, and then finally had this contact with the physical contact with a female gray alien in his room one night.

And they said they needed help reproducing from humans because they had lost the ability to reproduce as a species. He was completely, as if the ball of light and the reptile wasn't enough. He was really upset. And he made me come down to Tucson. He gave me this sheet of [00:58:00] paper. He had written stories out of what had happened to him.

I know he believed it because he called me from the hospital shortly before he passed on. It was a deathbed confession. He made me promise not to tell his family. So this is the type of thing. Something seemingly as innocuous as remote viewing. And I'm giving a lecture about this to IRVA, International Remote Viewing Association, at their online conference in November.

I finally think I understand what, how it worked is something called the Ronhoff Bohm effect, which is a non electromagnetic type of Distant communication through quantum fields, through quantum mechanics, purely through a type of frequency, basically like the Lockheed Martin pet. That's what they're talking about.

And that's what RV seems to be. And it seems to be, have to do with vortex shapes and swirls, galaxy swirls that we're all familiar with. Those types of shapes at a microscopic [00:59:00] level seem to produce another type of. Electromagnetic field that is closed and goes back down to the quantum field rather than radiating outward like our radios and electromagnetics.

We're all familiar with light and this sort of technology, which is sort of going outward. This is an inward facing it, Kara kind of goes back to meditation again, a closed loop inward facing EM field that doesn't radiate, but it can communicate at a distance. Isn't that interesting? It's like an inverse effect.

Kara Gooodwin: yeah, like the deeper in you go then

Dr. Simeon Hein: farther out you

Kara Gooodwin: yeah. Which is a known, you know, that's

a known part of

Dr. Simeon Hein: has been telling us. The more you stay at home, the farther you go out. Tzu and others, right? About, uh, about when, when you don't, when you don't do anything, nothing's left undone. Yeah. I'm not quoting it quite right, but it's it's that sort of inverse logic that our [01:00:00]Western mind.

It's the opposite. And I think it's nice closing out the interview with that because, uh, this is really where it comes back to is there's an alternative type of physics, which quantum mechanics has been telling us is real for 100 years. Quantum effects that create long distance, Interactions and cloaking and invisibility.

And it actually seems that we have evidence for types of creatures that use that and phenomena just like ball lightning, which is basically clusters of particles really compressed together so that the attraction. Overcomes any repulsion they have, and they start facing inward again and facing back down to the quantum zero point.

And I'm not, this is not just words. It's in these patents from these defense contractors. Uh, McDonnell Douglas called it the shadow biome. They had an ad. You wonder if they really know a little more than they're talking about. They're not, it sounds kind of cute, but Halloween ish, but that you really get the feeling they know a little more.

So that's my feeling about [01:01:00] it is. that these Eastern religions have been talking about this for a long time, uh, about chi energy.

Kara Gooodwin: Mm hmm.

Dr. Simeon Hein: This really does seem to be real. Uh, I was always uncertain in college taking Tai Chi if this was just a type of expression or if it was a real energy, how would you measure it?

There does seem to be a biological type of energy around chi, which is part of Tai Chi and Qigong and

Kara Gooodwin: Yeah.

Dr. Simeon Hein: Eastern practices. And it seems to me to relate to all these phenomena in a very interesting way. I'm not trying to oversimplify it and say I've explained the whole thing, but it seems a lot of components of this that we call paranormal.

There's a kind of a unification underneath these different phenomena. And I think that's interesting not to try to oversimplify things, but to realize. What we've been calling paranormal are these sort of alternate quantum states, alternate electromagnetism, if you'd like, just a [01:02:00] non ordinary Maxwellian type of EM fields with closed loops instead of open loops.

Where our technology engines, think of car engines, all open loop, it pollutes. There's an alternative. And if we could tap into that more, we'd probably have less pollution, probably more abundance. Yeah. Free energy, less, uh, we, we probably have more resources available to us than we've been tapping into.

Cause we've been looking outside the whole time, you know, just cut it down, burn it. That's our fuels. And it seems that we're on the verge of another time now where we see that there's a kind of another paradigm. Where we have real results, we can see life forms built around it, technologies like UFOs, mental spiritual practices, remote viewing, where you see this continuum, uh, I mean, if you ever wanted to do another show, we could go through about an hour of evidence from all the coal [01:03:00] fusion, low energy nuclear reaction, ball lightning studies.

Kara Gooodwin: Yeah.

Dr. Simeon Hein: just reinforce all of this. And so the limitation care, it's not really the evidence. It's a willingness to look at this and not be afraid. And I believe the up and coming generation of scientists because our federal grant giving services are not what they used to be. And, you know, budget cuts and all of this.

People are always looking for alternatives to create the abundance that people expect. To have in their lives, the abundance we see in nature. And it seems that people will turn to these because it's just other forms of, of energy and information. And there's real science behind it. It's just that again, going back to the beginning of the discussion, there's often a reluctance to go against what your peers in your department are going to think is okay, because all of a sudden you won't seem cool anymore.

You'll just seem weird and you won't get promoted. You won't, you know, you know what I'm talking about?

Kara Gooodwin: Well, yeah. And how fascinating throughout this whole [01:04:00] thing, I've just really enjoyed all the patterns and the, the, you know, this has been a fractal conversation. The fact that you started by studying sociology. So not only were you in academia, but But you were, so you were experiencing that peer pressure and that kind of from a general academia perspective, but then you come down to what you were actually studying and you were actually observing this in all areas. So it's just, and then how that relates to what you're studying now and how that's more really considered, you know, it's more on the fringe from like an academia, academia perspective, even though you've loaded this conversation with so much research and so much, um, You know, ways that, that, that science is kind of trying to come up to speed with a lot of, of what you're talking about.

So

it's really fascinating. You'll definitely have to come back and we can, we can talk about the, well, we can talk about so many things. I can [01:05:00] just talk about this stuff forever,

Dr. Simeon Hein: I'll give you one more teaser

Kara Gooodwin: yeah, please.

Dr. Simeon Hein: There are companies out there. It seems that they're getting close to actually having technologies, engines, things. Move in this direction that are less polluting, more, you know, magnitudes of order, more efficient. So it might be worth the very beginning of a whole new chapter.

Kara Gooodwin: God

Dr. Simeon Hein: Of our history where this is. Yeah. What was that?

Kara Gooodwin: God willing, and the creek don't rise.

Dr. Simeon Hein: Right, right. That this won't be seen as weird and pushed. This will be like, people will be hungry for this because it's the next stage in our relationship to our environment is to exist with it in a more harmonious and, you know, creative and productive way without some of the negative things that don't really need to be there.

Kara Gooodwin: Yeah. That's amazing. Well, thank you so

much.

I've loved this conversation. Um, please talk about [01:06:00] how people can find out more about you and get your books.

Dr. Simeon Hein: Yeah. So I do have a link on my blog for people to get signed copies of my books. So if you go, my blog is new crystal mind. com and I have a link, I pinned one of the posts to the top for people to get signed copies of these if you'd like to get one. So feel free to look around new crystal mind. And I also have a YouTube channel.

You can put my name into YouTube and I post YouTube videos about these topics and so forth.

Kara Gooodwin: Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for being here, and I look forward to the next one.

Dr. Simeon Hein: Thanks.

Kara Gooodwin: Thank you for listening to this episode of meditation conversation. I would be so grateful if you would share this episode with someone in your life who would appreciate it. Your sharing builds momentum and makes high vibe content more accessible and easier to find. And I'd also be grateful for you to subscribe to this content.

Thank you for your support. And I look [01:07:00] forward to the next meditation conversation.