323. Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Extraordinary Near Death Experience - Eben Alexander

Kara Goodwin: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the meditation conversation, the podcast to support your spiritual revolution. I'm your host, Kara Goodwin, and I'm so excited about today's special guest, Dr. Eben Alexander. I read Dr. Alexander's book, Proof of Heaven, before my spiritual awakening when I was what we maybe call spiritually curious.

I really appreciated at that time his materialistic background that really seemed to be a convincing backdrop for his realizations about life following his near death experience. Eben Alexander was an academic neurosurgeon for over 25 years, including 15 years at Harvard Medical School.

In 2008, he experienced a transcendental near death experience during a week long coma from an inexplicable brain infection that completely transformed his worldview. A pioneering scientist and modern [00:01:00] thought leader in the emerging science that acknowledges the primacy of consciousness in the universe, he's the author of the New York Times Number one, bestseller proof of heaven, the map of heaven and living in a mindful universe.

And in this episode, you'll hear about what Eben experienced during his NDE, as well as wonderful insights. He shares from scientific research and consciousness. He has perspective, blending the worlds of science and spirituality from his own. So

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So welcome Dr. Alexander. Thank you so much for being here today.

Eben Alexander: Kara, it's such a delight to be with you, today. I'm glad

we have a chance to talk.

Kara Goodwin: Well, this is really special for me because I actually read Proof of Heaven before my kind of spiritual awakening. So it was one of the few books that I had exposure to when I was really more just kind of spiritually curious so this was many years ago. I think it was back in 20.

10, would that be right? 

Eben Alexander: 2012 is when it came out. 

Kara Goodwin: Oh, 2012. Okay.

I just remember my daughter was little and she's 13 now. I thought she was even younger than she was at the time. But [00:03:00] what I loved so much about it and what I still love about it is your unique perspective as a Harvard, academic neuroscientist and a neurosurgeon, and.

Having this profound near death experience and how it really obliterated your perspective, for me, at that period of my life where I really was just more spiritually curious And really didn't have much of a foundation of what we might expect outside of the reality that we live in, that we all end up experiencing after we, when we pass away. it was a really really profound book. So thank you so much for being here.

Eben Alexander: So glad it could help you. I know that, I heard from thousands of people after that book came out of where they basically said it reminded them of something they had been through. It sounded very, very familiar. and of course that was very heartening. And, once [00:04:00] you realize that,there's a huge spectrum of what that realm will look like.

So there's a lot of possibility for what people report. But it's interesting when you study these cases, in large numbers, there's a lot of overlap and a lot of similarity and a lot of,kind of principle, that's demonstrated through these engagements that, is not just wishful thinking and fantasy and hallucination, et cetera, but as part of who we are as human beings. And that's why I think it's so important to, acknowledge this. And, in many ways, the only way out in terms of solving the deep mysteries of quantum physics is to acknowledge the primacy of consciousness. That's exactly where all those experiments have been leading us for the last few decades. and now it's pretty much incontrovertible and especially with the Nobel Prize Committee giving out the Nobel Prize in physics, in 2022 for entanglement. Entanglement is simply an acknowledgement that our four dimensional space time, our notions of what's called in [00:05:00] science, local realism are just not true. That there's much more going on. There's information connections through the universe, across space and time that defy our materialist to pseudo explanations and assumptions.

and it has great implications for us as humans, in terms of the afterlife. In terms of reincarnation, every bit of that is strongly supported in that, scientific

body of work. 

Kara Goodwin: what you just said about quantum entanglement and what science is proving with consciousness now, how does that relate or contrast with. Your perspective prior to your coma and near death experience.

Eben Alexander: I think basically what it's showing is just as we follow the evidence, I. in, in the olden days there was this game of kind of whack-a-mole materialist scientist, smashing each and every near death experience, claim or other spiritual claim. with this is impossible. our theoretical models forbid it, and that is not true at all. it's completely false, and [00:06:00] especially when you open up to the broader implications of, quantum physics and what it's telling us combined with. All that information that comes from studying of near death experiences, of shared death experiences, which are similar in quality to near death, but happen in perfectly healthy people. So shared death experiences, eliminate the, materialistic, pseudo explanation that it's all about oxygen tension in the brain, or carbon dioxide, et cetera. But all of this material fits together when you, accept these stories. And then you add in the scientific basis for reincarnation. for example, university of Virginia, more than 2,700 cases of past life memories in children they've investigated over the last six decades. And of those 2,700 cases, 1700 of what they call solved. That is they actually found that the person did exist before who the child is describing. So you know who knew that if you investigate all these stories of past life memories and children, you start discovering [00:07:00] that a

lot of them 

have a basis, in fact

Kara Goodwin: And this is the work of Dr. Ian Stevenson and Dr. Tucker, I think Dr. Jim 

Eben Alexander: Yeah. Jim Tucker is the head of division and perceptual studies are dos at University of Virginia now. People can go to uva doops.org to learn a whole lot more about all of their academic work. And but you will not come away from that doubting the reality of afterlife and reincarnation because when the stuff is studied scientifically, there's a tremendous amount of empirical evidence for the reality of it.

And what science has lacked in the past has been a very good notion of mechanism of this brain mind connection and how. All these phenomenal experiences, are generated and how our free will actually has a tremendous amount of influence on that reality that's emerging. But, people go to scientific and medical.net.

Go to galileo commission.org. I'm on the scientific advisory board for both of those scientific [00:08:00] groups. You'll find there are hundreds of scientists around the world who support this work and realize that. the old materialist, complaints about, about these spiritual experiences are unfounded and that in fact the evidence, greatly supports, the reality of, eternity of soul, interconnectedness of soul.

How we're all really in this together. That's what near-death experiences show us, is in that mental realm. We all,coalesce into sharing the dream of the one mind. That's what we're doing. and so it's a much bigger theater of operations for understanding the nature of the universe and one's relationship, to the universe that I think is emerging from

all this. I. 

Kara Goodwin: And are these perspectives that you had prior to your your near death experience? 

Eben Alexander: Well, not really. I, must confess, as I pointed out in book Proof of Heaven, patients would try and, convince me of some of these things, by sharing their stories with me. I. Many nurses try and wake me up to this. I will [00:09:00] confess the nurses are ahead of many of us doctors. The nurses are often there when patients transition and they get to witness what happens with family members and in the room, extraordinary events that cannot be simply a materialist model of a body is shutting down and it's the end of that life.

And that's the end of story. There's much more going on there and, especially as we do in our book, living in a Mind Universe. We really take the consilience of all these different lines of inquiry. So not just parapsychology and near-death experiences and shared death and after death communications, deathbed visions, all those kind of things that align perfectly with the hospice and terminal care literature.

I will point out, so it's, you can no longer use the excuse, oh, a near-death experiencer didn't die. So they're not telling us what happens when we die. guess what? Christopher Kerr's work of Hospice Buffalo is where he works, and he's only interested in terminal care and people who die, and yet they go through exactly the same things, reuniting the souls of departed loved [00:10:00] ones, this sense of love and bliss and being in a spiritual home,a spiritual travel motif. all of these are parts of the, the ongoing narrative of human experiences, beyond the simplicity of our four dimensional space time. And this is where it gets very exciting, is when you realize the scientific validity supporting all this is certainly there. And,one example of that is, people go to bigelow institute.org, you'll find a list of 28 essays.

The 28 essays are available there. For the reading public. And those 28 essays were written two years ago, as a scientific, proof of the reality of the afterlife, and even of reincarnation. That's what comes through in a lot of these papers. So go to bigelow institute.org. you'll find these scientific papers on the evidence for. Continuation of conscious awareness after permanent bodily death. and it's a revolutionary body of literature, and yet it was all, put together by scientists, each of whom had shown [00:11:00] at least five years experience investigating

the afterlife Question I. So I think those essays are really from world experts and they tell us 

state of the art.

And the reality is, yes, the afterlife is real. Yes, reincarnation is real. Our souls are eternal. yes there is program forgetting. So most of us don't remember,much of between lives, but there are ways in transpersonal psychology, like hypnosis, meditation and having your own NDE, et cetera, that can set the stage for

this deeper 

understanding.

Kara Goodwin: Right, and your experience was very profound. you got a beautiful glimpse of what happens in a near death experience. I think stories are the, like you mentioned, those, all the stories that you can find in the Bigelow Institute, and the research, but, personal stories carry a lot of weight.

Would you be willing to talk us through some of the aspects of your NDE?

Eben Alexander: Yeah,I'll do that in a kind of a brief [00:12:00] motif. It turns out I can get long-winded on all that and I'd rather not do that. I wanna keep our conversation going. But I will just share a bit of why, I see it in looking back on the whole thing 15 years later. why I see the importance of it and where it has actually led to results in the scientific community expanding its own view. started in a primitive,kind of course. realm and important to point out that, an atypical feature of my near-death experience was that I was amnesic, that I had no memories of ebon, Alexander's life, of earth, of humans, this universe, et cetera. All that knowledge was deleted from my memories and it in the months and years after my coma became clear.

Why that amnesia? Was so critical. It ultimately was responsible for me accepting the reality of this journey. Whereas if I had a more kind of standard scripting of it, for example, my adoptive father, the world renowned neurosurgeon, had passed over four years before my coma and he was nowhere to be seen in my NDE. [00:13:00] And yet, two and a half years later in deep meditation, as we describe in the book, living in a Mindful Universe, he shows up in a very big way. But anyway, let me get right back to your question and the experience itself. And also important to point out that not only the medical details I reported in Proof of Heaven, right there to help people analyze this case, but also there's a medical case report I. On my medical records that came out September, 2018, in the Journal of Nervous and Mental Diseases by Dr. siRNA, Lauren Moore and Bruce Grayson. That case report can be accessed, many ways, but including through the reading list and through my website and blog postings. but that case report made two things very clear.

One that my brain was really in no shape tar or any kind of dream or hallucination. The objective evidence for damage to the neocortex, the part that, Makes, puts together our human consciousness. All that part of the brain was offline, so there was no way it was operative. and that's really one of the main reasons the [00:14:00] scientific community takes my story so seriously is because of all the evidence for destruction of my immune cortex should have gotten rid of any possibility of a dream or hallucination. Not to mention the extraordinary ultra real, memorable. A life transformative set of events that I did have, which I remember is clearly today, 15 years later as if the whole thing happened yesterday. And the other thing is when the peer review editors of that scientific journal challenge, I. The authors of this case report say, how do you explain this?

It's unprecedented in the medical literature. This case is absurd. How do you explain this complete recovery? They said it's because he had a near death experience, and that's why it's a crucial part of the title and the abstract is to help people link together. importance of near-death experiences in these miraculous recoveries. 'cause that's exactly what medical scientists find in many of these cases. So in that, with that background, we started out in what I call the earthworm, my view, very primitive course, unresponsive realm. [00:15:00] And I was rescued from that by the slowly spinning white light. It came packaged with a perfect musical melody, and that ushered me up into what I call the Gateway Valley. This absolutely, beautiful, kind of world of ideals. It's like Plato's world of ideals, but for the individual soul, lots of earth-like features, absolute perfection. No sign of any death or decay. There were thousands of beings dancing down on this, in meadows, surrounded by a forest sparkling blue waterfalls into crystal blue pools. lots of joy in Merriman. It was being fueled 'cause up above with these swooping orbs of angelic choirs. It would emanate chants, anthems, hymns. It would thunder through my awareness and that we're definitely fueling all the festivities going on in this beautiful meadow. There came a soft summer breeze, it blew through.

That was my first awareness in the amnesic state of the power majesty and awe of that infinitely loving and healing God force at the core of our very conscious awareness. That is what I was [00:16:00] witnessing is this whole thing unfolded. and I remember, seeing. All these beings going off around me that I later called of souls between lives. and they were down dancing in the meadow, lots of joy. Merriment, children playing dogs jumping, incredible festivities. And like I said, it was those angelic choirs that were fueling all that and they ended up. Providing the next level of a musical portal to a higher level. And I remember seeing all of four dimensional space time, collapsing down, and then all of this spiritual level of this Gateway Valley.

I. And do note that, that would be where, for example, people would have life reviews. And your life review is a demonstration that, in that realm you relive the events. It's not just a remembering of events. It's a very powerful demonstration of primacy, of consciousness. But not only that, you relive those events from the perspective of everybody involved, not just your own perspective.

So it shows that we're in many ways sharing the

dream of the one [00:17:00] mind. And that's, 

sorry.

Kara Goodwin: to interrupt you, but I remember you said you didn't have any, any memory at this time. You didn't have any like identification with yourself as Eben, so were you witnessing those life reviews, you were witnessing others, or you just had a knowing 

Eben Alexander: No, what happened was I had no,

um, E Alexander Life Review. I couldn't because the complete amnesia was so overwhelming. But what I did witness was as I ascended to the higher levels, and I remember seeing all of this, this Gateway Valley realm and it's deep time or. Meta time, a completely different ordering of causality where you can witness birth, death, everything in between simultaneously. That should give you a big idea of how much the concept of time flow figures into understanding this much better. And so what I did witness is that I ascended from there. all of that collapsing down, was leading to. This [00:18:00] complex over sphere, basically the universe through all eternity. That was there as a teaching tool in the midst of this realm that I call the core. In the core realm. That was really the sanctum sanct form of the divine. That's why I recognized the very origin of conscious awareness as being in that God source of pure love that also brings pure wholeness. So we're never apart from that, magical, kind of spiritual force of love and our spiritual home. it turns out that I would oscillate through these worlds 

eben-alexander-md_1_01-23-2024_110218: because,

Eben Alexander: I would tumble back down from that core realm into the. Earth were my view, and it was by conjuring up the memory of the musical notes that I was able to bring up that light portal that would take me back again up into the Gateway Valley, and always welcome by that beautiful girl on the butterfly wing in the Gateway Valley.

My guardian angel, those who've read the book, proof of Heaven, realize how important she was. She was really the way that I came to an understanding [00:19:00] of the reality of the journey. and, Her message to me was very simple. those sparkling blue eyes, high forehead, high cheekbones, broad smile. She never said a word to me, but mentally telepathically her emotional truth completely, overlapped with mine in this knowing.

And the message from her was, you are deeply loved and cherished forever. You have nothing to fear, you richly cared for. And that was there every time I passed through that realm on the way to the core, all these lessons adding up, I would keep tumbling back down. And there were many lessons there about really the nature of the brain, mind and consciousness and the ultimate nature of that primordial mind, because I was witnessing that in full blown splendor.

But then also returning back to that,earthworms eye view and its primitive nature, which. For a long time, I just thought it was the best consciousness my brain could muster while it was soaking in puss. But at any rate, the reality is I was always told going into the core, you're not here to [00:20:00] stay.

You'll be going back. I didn't know exactly what that meant, but it didn't seem to matter because every time I went back down, I could remember the musical notes, the melody, and that led me back up to this beautiful spiritual realm. But there came a point where their advice to me was true, and I can no longer conjure up the musical. melody that would take me into the Gateway Valley. To say I was sad at that

point would be an understatement. but I also knew by then that I could trust that I would be taken care of, that this universe had my back. And that's the biggest lesson for all of us, is to learn that there are beautiful forces of love that are there to look out for us and help us and protect us in these lives. And, that's what I was encountering. So at the very end of it all, I was stuck in that earthworm my view, but now surrounded by thousands of beings go, going off of the distance, meaning with heads bowed, some holding candles up, murmuring energy coming up from them was very reassuring and, gratifying and validating, just [00:21:00] those beautiful messages of love and being in my spiritual home. When I originally passed through the gateway at the core, but now I was getting the very same thing in that earth were my view in that primitive course realm. And the final thing I saw in that vision during the seven days of my coma was, the appearance of six faces and five of them were physically present in the ICU room the last 24 hours of my coma. So they served as very important as what are called vertical time anchors, to help me figure out what was going on in my mental space versus in the earthly realm around me. And what we came to realize, is that's when I was headed back to this world and it was the sixth face that I saw that really got my attention. It was of a 10-year-old boy and I didn't recognize him at the time, and I didn't understand the words. And it turns out that was Sunday morning, day seven of coma. My doctors had started the week estimating a 10% chance of survival. By the end of that week, not really responding to the antibiotics, down to a 2% chance of survival.

That's why the doctors were saying time [00:22:00] to take him off the ventilator, stop the antibiotics and let him go. And my o youngest son bond, I. 10 years old at the time, overheard that they had protected him from the worst news during that week. But when he heard that, he knew things were a lot worse than he'd been told.

Came running down the hallway, pulled open, my eyelids, one eye looking over there, one eye over there. Neither pupil working. Anybody in medicine knows that's a horrible picture. and I promise you, I did not see him with my eyes or hearing with my ears. I was far too gone from this world, but is pleading with me.

Daddy, you're gonna be okay, daddy. You're gonna be okay somehow. Was urging me back to this world and that's, I have no idea how it happened. It was obviously higher soul navigated return. but I ended up coming back to this world, fighting the ventilator. They pulled out the breathing tube.

That's when I said thank you. Now, I don't remember that now. I don't really remember much of the next 36 hours. My brain was still far too damaged by this bacterial infection. so I was in and out of a paranoid delusional, psychotic nightmare till [00:23:00] things finally stabilized. But interesting to me, and looking back on it all was I had this amnesia for all my prior life memories. And then when I woke up from coma, all I knew was where I'd been. That extraordinary journey that seemed to have gone for months or years, even though it had to fit within a seven day, earth time coma. and then all that knowledge came back over about two months. I had a return of all my semantic knowledge and during those months, I was also going to the hospital, talking to my doctors, being examined, going through MRI and CT scans, trying to make sense of this.

'cause it did not make sense. It did not line up again. The reason the case is so important to the scientific community is 'cause it doesn't fit the expectations whatsoever. For that kind of bacterial infection and its impact on the patient. And then to have this full recovery really demands an explanation. And that explanation is, has its origin in the fact that I had this extraordinary spiritual experience, this near death [00:24:00] experience, that allowed me to come back to this world and ended up, having a full recovery from it. 

Kara Goodwin: Wow. Wow. Thank you for sharing all of that. it's it's very expansive and, and so beautiful. And I, what I love so much when you were talking is this image of, or the explanation of. Using the music to navigate. So you knew that you wanted to traverse these planes and you talk about going through portals and you knew that the key for you was to use the the vibration of the sounds that you were adhering to to carry you.

And I know that that has been. Led into the work that you've been doing to keep yourself connected to that state and to that inner awareness. Can you talk about the work that you've been doing?

Eben Alexander: Absolutely. That's a beautiful point and it blends many different pieces of my life [00:25:00] together. For example, the work I was doing in neurosurgery, be in the months leading up to coma, I was working for the focused ultrasound surgery foundation, coordinating global research. in laboratories around the world for this very revolutionary technique of focused ultrasound surgery where you're using the therapeutic effect of ultrasound, not using it for imaging. In fact, used MRI to guide where that focus is being delivered. but it's a powerful technology. So sound was right at the core of everything I was doing then in this journey. It was obvious that sound was the way that my soul was able to navigate, up and down through these various,levels of spiritual planes, the different levels of that heavenly spiritual realm. And of course, coming back to this world where sound has figured in so importantly. after my coma for two years, I read about 150 books in the first two years on on quantum physics, on brain, mind consciousness, spiritual traditions, east and [00:26:00] west, trying to make sense of my journey, and finally realized if I wanted to have a deeper understanding, I had to explore consciousness.

I. I had to really try meditation and do it all the time, do it in a very powerful, rigorous, form. And that's what I did. I decided to explore consciousness and I

was introduced, way back two years glaucoma or so, to the concept of binaural beat brain waving treatment. for one thing, I had two people from the Monroe Institute to come hear a talk I gave two years after waking up from coma. And binaural beats is right at the heart of all of their work. Also, I had recently read an article by Gerald Oster in the Scientific American, the, I think, 74 19 74, where he wrote about binaural beats in the brain. but it showed me how, slightly different frequencies in the two,input frequencies to the two ears by slightly varying them anywhere from, zero to about 25 hertz or cycles per second difference. you can create these very [00:27:00] powerful signals, in the brain, and that was something that had first been noted by oppression physicist in the 18 hundreds. it was taken advantage of by Robert Monroe and others who were studying remote viewing, the psychic spy programs, et cetera. And out-of-body experiences.

That's what Monroe was doing. But these are found to be greatly enhanced using binaural beat brainwave entrainment. So for me, that's said, aha. This could be a jumping off point to allow separation of consciousness from the brain, the body, the sense of self, the here and the now. And to get more into that priority of mind, that eternal soul aspect of who we are. And so that's why I started using binaural beats, way back in those early days, two years post coma. And of course, that's how I met Karen Newell. We were both taking a course at the Monroe Institute to teach people how to use these tones for dramatic personal growth and, co exploration of consciousness. And that's where I realized that she was doing some amazing. [00:28:00] And important work, with her soon to be business partner, Kevin Coi. I was actually the one who advised them to get together. Once I heard the tones they were doing, I said, you guys really need to get this out to the world. This is important. And I used sacred acoustics every day. I used it for an hour or so this morning, and I've done that for the last, 11, 12 years or so. and to me it's a very important part of, of. It's discerning more of my experience, coming more into a notion of understanding my relationship to the universe.

Purpose, for being, every bit of that is something that's emerged tremendously from my meditative practice. People who wanna learn more about sacred acoustics, you go to sacred acoustics.com. She has an excellent page there for I want to dot, dot, dot all the many things that people wanna do with meditation. and then she has a formula for how you can use various sacred acoustic stones to get to those

goals. I think you'll find it a very, useful, site and very useful technique. And of [00:29:00] course, we've done workshops around the world. to try and help people get up to speed with this. And that's where I've really gained most of my respect for sacred acoustics and vinyl beat brainwave and treatment. 'cause I know what it's done for me. But of course, I had that reference point of the profound near-death experience where I came about as close to death as you can get, and then was able to come back to this world, and then have complete healing. I've been able to put, sacred acoustics to great use in my life in the 15

years since coma. but that sound has everything to do, with my

current mission and 

understanding.

Kara Goodwin: That's beautiful. Is there a particular piece on sacred acoustics that helps you to get back to where, you know, to connect with your higher consciousness. 

Eben Alexander: There are.

several that I've used, and I'll tell you my latest, favorites of one thing, heart Center two. Is absolutely a spectacular, it's one of my absolute all, all time favorite Go-tos. but I'll [00:30:00] also point out that I frequently, I use the app ones very well on the iPhone and with the app you can make playlists where you line these tones up.

And that's been a lot of fun lately. And what I'll often do is I'll take say 20 minutes of whole theta or 20 minutes of whole Delta and then add on, say a 39 minute,light body, heart center two, maybe golden light. and then I will add onto that maybe 30 minutes of the lunar cycles, full moon or new moon, depending on what we've just most recently encountered with the moon. So you can line up these tones and find them to be very useful. I can also recommend for people to use cosmic womb. Especially artists, creative people, writers, anybody who's looking for creativity in their work use Cosmic womb. It's a one hour, track that has a tremendous potential for working with

it while you're doing other things.

Kara Goodwin: That's beautiful. Is there like an Evans playlist in the app?[00:31:00] 

Eben Alexander: No, because, when I do it, I'm looking on a given day, I'm looking for a particular set of things, and it depends on how deep I wanna go in my meditation, or maybe I'm just trying to do some out of body work. trying to, do some telepathic experimentation, connecting with Karen's

mind or what have you. there are many different things. So it really depends on what

I'm trying to do that given day. But I would say between gold and light. Heart Center two, light body love, body primordial mind. eclipse is very good. there really are several great ones. It's worth just exploring that sacred acoustic site and just uncovering these incredible gems that have been generated over the last 11 years or so as Karen and Kevin have done this work to bring these tools to the world at large. 

But, they are very powerful and. for people who wanna learn any more about all this kind of, the grander scope of our activities can be illuminated by visiting innersanctumcenter.com. So that's [00:32:00] I-N-N-E-R sanctum center.com. There are several different options there for people to participate. one is a monthly webinar we do with our fans.

Another, there's a mental health practitioner course we did at innersanctumcenter.com with Dr. Anna sso. And then also there are over two years worth of bi-weekly interviews we did during the pandemic with many of the thought leaders on consciousness from around the world. and those interviews are also available at innersanctumcenter.com.

So tremendous, repertoire

of,resources available at innersanctumcenter.com to help people get up to speed with all the ways they can grow and, transform through this,

line of practice. 

Kara Goodwin: That's beautiful. So when we think about the, sounds and it being, the frequency that it's a got wavelengths of course, color and light. Light in particular also [00:33:00] has wavelengths, and it's interesting to consider that when you were in that of earthworm view. And that seems like it was a dark, earthy, experience.

And then you rose up into the Gateway Valley and you talk about the vibrancy and the colors. And I think I, I remember that there were colors that you have never experienced here on this planet, in your regular reality. and the sound had changed. and then going higher up through higher portals and.

And I, I am curious if the, if you remember the light changing, the color changing and getting more refined as the sound was changing and you were rising up, was there a 

Eben Alexander: Well, yes, there's certainly a sense of kind of that, people always

use the words higher vibration. Now, to me as a scientist, I'd like to define what it is it's doing the vibrating when I say something like that. But there's no question you feel that sense of kind of a higher [00:34:00] vibratory nature.

And it turns out that. the name of the game in terms of, designing those frequencies is quite different from just raising your frequency. in particular, binaural beats, if we, as we've said, they can only really be generated between about zero and 25 hertz or cycles per second because, they're generated by the difference in arrival time of the sound waves of those two separate, frequencies going to the two ears. If they get too far apart in frequency, they lose track of each other, and that too far apart is anything more than about 25 hertz. But the good news is we're really aiming for the lower ranges anyway. We're trying to get people, down into the delta range, zero to four hertz. The theta range, which is, or four to eight hertz.

And then alpha, which is eight to 12 hertz. And then of course, beta is our normal walk around talking,interacting, we're trying to get away from beta, [00:35:00] but beta generally goes from that 12 to about 35 hertz. And then you've got gamma above that. We're really trying to get people down into Delta and theta and occasionally alpha, It turns out, originally Monroe's work suggested that when you were driving heavy delta or theta frequencies, with this audio signal that you were synchronizing the hemispheres into that same EEG rhythm. And what we've found with our EEG investigations is nowhere near that simple. there are some people who do get a very, synchronous set of brainwaves, but they're generally mediums who are very good at connecting with souls of departed loved ones, et cetera.

And when they're in that state, that's when they have this very refined. kind of synchrony of the hemispheres. Otherwise, it's much more complicated than that. But I think a lot of what's going on here is using those signals in the lower brainstem to basically serve as a left to right [00:36:00] oscillation. there's a general principle in hypnosis. Everybody's seen, a pendulum, and so the eyes follow, and when the eyes are following a pendulum, they're oscillating a circuit in the lower brainstem. That's mainly in the midbrain. but it still can have a dramatic effect on kind of liberating conscious awareness that what's that hypnogogic state and

what hypnosis Is 

all about.

Kara Goodwin: Is that the pineal gland or a different part? 

Eben Alexander: No, it's really different. We're

now way down in the lower

brainstem. The pineal gland is up much higher. the pineal from my perspective, doesn't really

have much to do with any of this, even though a lot of people get excited and think, maybe the pineal is dumping a lot of dimethyl tryptamine at the time of bodily death.

That would explain. they hope it, it doesn't explain the NDE, but anyway, that's their kind of, wishful thinking. Is to explain it away as a DMT up, but I don't think the pineal is really related. It's really the superior ary nucleus, which is a structure in the lower brainstem. It's much lower down at a more [00:37:00] primitive level than, the midbrain, which is where the oscillations for hypnosis and the oscillation, for example, with, EMDR, eye movement desensitization reprocessing, very successful in treating post-traumatic stress disorder. And that is again, using rapid eye movement. So left, right, left right. and that's where the magic is that oscillation in the lower brainstem is what facilitates a liberation of our conscious awareness from the here now and sense of self. and I think that when you recognize that every kind of every. Chant or anthem or hym, you might've ever heard that engendered a transcendental state of conscious awareness. Those were all processed up in the acoustic cortex of the temporal lobes in circuits that have really, been derived over the last two to 3 million years in homosapien sapiens and primates. Very, very different are the tones from sacred acoustics and similar binaural beat brainwave entrainment that by using separate frequencies to the two ears, [00:38:00] they're intersecting down in the lower brainstem in a circuit that arose more than 300 million years ago. And there's a general principle in evolutionary biology that if you wanna really track down a function in this discussion, that function will be consciousness.

What you do is you look at anatomy and evolution over time. and that anatomy is looking at the anatomy of the brain and its structures, and that evolution is going back to the superior olive nucleus that arose before mammals even walked this earth. In fact, originally it was a localization system so that if you hear, have a threat behind your head. That circuit, the superior ovarian nucleus can still calculate where that threat is relative to your head based on the arrival time of those sound waves going a thousand feet per second to your two ears slightly separated in, in, in space. so that's really the. The intriguing thing is that this circuit still is very effective at a localization, and that's where the [00:39:00] power comes in for it.

When you learn to ride these tones and you learn that you are not. That little voice in your head. People often associate, they say, I am that voice in my head. You are not, that, that is not your consciousness. That's a little more than a parlor trick in many ways. That's your ego mind that tries to insinuate itself with all kinds of toxic and unrealistic demands. I. And this is in many ways what meditation is all about, is quieting that ego voice, putting it into time out, and developing this relationship with the primorial mind. developing that relationship with that, mind of the universe, which is what we're really sharing. That's what this meditation is truly all about. And becoming more one with that notion of oneness and connectedness of mind. and it's really one heart. You know that we're, that connects us because it's that heart consciousness, that

binding force of love. And that's why near death experiences are so important as the tip of the [00:40:00] spear teaching us.

you know that the life review, which is so common in near death experiences, is like the golden rule, written into the fabric of the universe, treat others as you would like to be treated. The reason is the Life Review is Bruce Grayson in a recent article in the Journal of Near Death Studies in, in the fall of 2021, he, summarized his, 700 or so cases of near, of, life reviews in near death experiences and, I think it was something like 74% of them, had this very strong feeling that it was a reliving of events from the perspective of all involved. in other words, your life review won't just be, you and your life experiences, but really everybody that was involved in those and a shared view at what those interactions were like. So if somebody's been busy handing out a lot of pain and suffering to somebody else. Their life review is not necessarily gonna be much fun 'cause they have to be on the receiving end of that. In fact, I think that's where our notions of hell came from. 'cause from my [00:41:00] NDE and from discussions with thousands of other ND years, I don't think there's any eternal hell and damnation.

It makes zero sense. Our and our, we know that the reincarnation literature is very active and suggests that our souls return and we keep coming back. And yet what Ian Stevenson and Jim Tucker will tell you is you must harvest those memories. From children before age six or seven because natural processes cover over those memories as we age, so you don't remember them. Most of us as teenagers and adults don't really have ready access to past life memories, and yet they were there when we were young children, and that's why it's so important to acknowledge that the scientific study of these past life memories in children. Shows us the reality. It's not even debatable as whether or not it might be.

So it's obviously the case that our souls come back again and again. But we also have this program forgetting so that we have this buy-in to this life as really the life that we are to live. [00:42:00] but this meditation, centering prayer, all these modes of going within this entire growing literature on near death and similar experiences, eternity of soul, every bit of that. It is open to each and every one of us to come into greater wisdom about all this. And that's where, for example, that Bigelow institute.org collection of 28 winning essays is so important because all the different facts from every different line of inquiry within the scientific realm supports the primacy of consciousness.

And that we have this shared mind that we're all,working with. And, that's where you realize that the. Only appropriate way to treat self and others is with unconditional love, kindness, compassion. Mercy acceptance when necessary. Forgiveness, and these kind of qualities have disappeared from the stage of the materialist inspired conventional worldview, and yet to save this planet and get away from the horrific.

[00:43:00] Narcissistic ego toxicity and corporate greed, for example, in the energy industry where even though they've known since the early 20th century that burning carbon based fuels would heat the planet, they kept saying, keep doing it. It's making a ton of money. guess what? That was not in the interest of humanity.

We're now facing climate change that is, cataclysmic in its challenge to us, and we need to take appropriate action and become proper stewards for this planet. But that involves this awakening I am talking about, where we all grow into the higher beings. We came here to be, to support the planet, to support all our fellow beings and support our future as a sustainable and healthy

environment. 

Kara Goodwin: Mm. Beautiful. It's, it's fascinating the amount of scientific research that you're able to share in terms of the leaps and bounds of perspective that you're finding amongst your contemporaries. is that pretty universal? Karen Newell also shared [00:44:00] that in her interview, that you've had this such a, an interest with your contemporaries, with an openness.

But then we also see some other scientific literature that is still clutching that materialistic view.what's your 

Eben Alexander: Well, generally the scientists, very, clearly and reliably support me and understand the power of the story. Now it's scientific journalists who are a problem. They don't have the courage, they don't have the knowledge, they have no idea what they're talking about. and so they tend to clinging very desperately to that materialist model into any kind of negative press. and this is where the FAQ page on my, on ebenalexander.com is so important. The recommended reading list is important, but also the FAQ page, 'cause it answers a lot of those questions, that, the scientific journalists have been, far too weak and, lacking of courage to explore. But the scientific world is fully on board with [00:45:00] supporting me.

That, that might come as a surprise to some people, but not when you really learn a lot about my story, and everything about it. You see why the scientific community is so totally into this, because it really, it's a bulletproof case. It supports the reality of primacy of mind, eternity of soul, and you can try and fight it any, which way and yet, I was my own worst skeptic for months. I remember trying to tell my doctors about my experience, in the first, days and weeks of waking up and they would say, well, your brain was soaking in puss. We don't even understand how you're coming back to us now. But you can forget about it 'cause a dying brain plays all kinds of tricks. that was before all my scientific knowledge came back, which took about two months. And during that period I'm like, okay. So it was way too real to be real. That's what I told my son, EEB iv, who was majoring in neuroscience in college at the time. He had been there at my bedside while I was deep in coma. But he also came home, two days after I got out of the hospital. It was the day before Thanksgiving [00:46:00] 2008, and he gave me this big hug and he told me later it was like there was this light shining within me that I was far more present than I'd ever been before. And I remember telling him it was way too real to be real. In other words, that's what my doctors told me. He, so I guess that's how I'm supposed to interpret this, but wow, what a thing to go through. And that was before I realized just how sick I was. Just how damaged my neocortex was. And that's the important thing here is this kind of bacterial meningo encephalitis is a perfect model for human death because of the way it destroys the neocortex and the brainstem.

I. And mine were under very direct attack, even on day one of this illness. and it just got worse during the week. Again, my very survival is something that is a complete gigantic question mark until you start looking at the deeper details of the story and realize how that NDE did serve a tremendous role in helping me to come back into wholeness and healing and come

back to this world. 

Kara Goodwin: [00:47:00] Wow. Yeah, it you were very. Uniquely placed to be able to have this type of experience and to bridge science and spirituality in the way that that has come to pass. It's really fascinating that you, of all people have been through this.

Eben Alexander: every near death experience is tailored for the individual that's having them, period. There's nothing else to the equation. But for someone like me, a neuroscientist, it turns out a huge part of my personal story that also folds into every bit of this was my adoption history. My birth mother was 16 unwed. she had to put, I was taken by social services at age 11 days, hospitalized for failure to thrive, and she was unwilling to get sign the papers to give me away. So I languished in that baby dorm for four months until my birth mother finally signed the adoption papers to give me up. and that [00:48:00] gave me the smoking crater and the subconscious background of my life of being rejected by my birth mother and not being worthy of love, not being worthy of being here.

That was the deep subconscious challenge to me as a human being. I wrestled with through much of my life, and I didn't come to recognize it all really until after this NDE and especially that beautiful guardian angel on the butterfly wing who was so critical to my understanding. And four months after the coma, as people who have read the book, proof of Heaven, recognized I in a picture in the mail that all of a sudden was like, aha. Woke me up to this deep and profound reality. And I'll also remind people there's a. A 10th anniversary edition of the book, proof of Heaven out there now has 36 additional pages beyond the fir the original book. and those pages explain a whole lot of what has gone on in the decade plus since my coma and since the book

Proof of Heaven came out. so between [00:49:00] that and the book, living in a Mind Universe, people have a lot of resources to learn much more

about 

every bit of this.

Kara Goodwin: Yeah, it's really interesting you talking about that huge void that was created in your subconscious from having that kind of. Abandonment as a child, as a baby. and then the communication that you were getting from her, very specifically, like a laser. Just,you are loved, you are loved.

Eben Alexander: it was absolutely shocking. mean, it still sends chills up and down my 

Kara Goodwin: too. Yes. 

Eben Alexander: it when I, whenever I tell that story,in public, I've shared it more than 500 times now, my story of Betsy, the guardian angel, about her identity and discovering all that form months post coma. And, I would just, my eyes would mist over I'd be tearing up every time I talked about it. You'd think I'd get over it. I came to realize that Betsy is there with me when I share that story. And my evidence for that really came in the form of photographs. People would often take pictures [00:50:00] of me on stage. And it turns out when they would take pictures of me on stage and I was talking about Betsy, you can tell because of the slides that are in the background, there would be these beautiful, well-developed kind of

purpleish whitish orbs that

would be right there around me. The just all this internal structure, exactly what you expect when a

spiritual being is present. And so I came to recognize that the reason I felt so misty-eyed and teary-eyed whenever I talked about Betsy was she was always there

with me when I 

was sharing that story. 

Kara Goodwin: Oh my goodness. that is, beautiful. Well, Dr. Alexander, this has just been an incredible conversation. Please share how people can connect with your work. 

Eben Alexander: Kara, thank you for having me

on. It's been a joy talking with you, and really the best way is to go to EBEN alexander.com. Recommended reading list is very useful. It has more than a hundred books and papers, many with hot links to the actual scientific papers, [00:51:00] so you can get right to them from that, page. also the FAQ, as I said, answers a lot of questions, especially those brought up by, in the lay press, by science journalists who have not done their homework. and then also the blog postings,there's a tremendous amount of resource there. and so also sacredacoustics.com for the meditation, as I said, explore that webpage.

You'll find a lot of clues for how to really,Kick up your game and meditation and how effectively and powerfully you're able to, connect with that primordial mind. and then inner sanctum center, INN er sanctum centers, I said a beautiful resource for our monthly webinar. It's there for people who want the. mental health practitioner course that we did with Dr. Anna Ssom. It's there for all of those interviews. Two years worth of biweekly interviews that we did during the pandemic with Bruce Grayson, Jim Tucker,

Larry Dossey. 

 lots of, of those world leaders, Jim Tucker. et cetera.

and also a lot of [00:52:00] experiencers we talk with in that series. So innersanctumcenter.com is an excellent resource. and of course people can keep in touch with me through ebenalexander.com. So I. just reach out through that, that channel and,all the information's there, and people who want, moving beyond just my voice to, scientific and medical.net galileo commission.org. ia nds.org is another great resource for, near death experiences, thousands of them recorded there. so there are many resources people can use to get at this kind of information. I would just encourage people to meditate, go within, and then start using those lessons gleaned from that beautiful, peaceful, experience and bring them into

living this life in this world. 

Kara Goodwin: Hmm. Beautiful. Well, thank you so much. What a blessing to connect with you today. 

Eben Alexander: Well, Kara, thanks so much for having me on. Thanks what you do

and thanks for getting this out there. 

Kara Goodwin: Thank you so much. 

Eben Alexander: I [00:53:00] appreciate it.