PGP Fundamentals: Being a Standout Candidate Part 2

Part 2 - Standout Candidate

[00:00:00] It's time for some more PGP fundamental series with part two of being a standout candidate. So be sure to go back and listen to part one. If you have not already to hear how to be a standout candidate leading up to residency application deadlines or submitting an application for any other type of postgraduate training experience.

So, in part two today, we'll identify how to be a standout candidate during the interview process and interview season and beyond that, because it really never stops. Yeah, I agree. You don't want to just sell yourself as a standout candidate, but show how you demonstrate that during the postgraduate training experience as well.

So back for a another episode, Dr. Elizabeth Hearn, you join a very short list of guests we've had on multiple episodes. She is an assistant professor at the university of North Texas health [00:01:00] science center at Fort Worth and creator and host of the farm. Five podcast, welcome back, Elizabeth. Thank you. What an honor to be back for two episodes.

I didn't realize I was one of the few, so I appreciate being in that select group of people. Thank you. Yeah. We only invite our favorites back. So yeah, that list of favorites has to be a pass. Well, we're definitely happy to have you back. Uh, make sure to check out part one to hear about Dr. Hearn's postgraduate training journey, and make sure to check out the farm five podcast, um, where you'll get up to date pharmacy news in five minutes or less.

And we'll link that here where you can find it. On all major podcasting apps. So let's get started with some good segue questions from part one of this two part series. So what elements from the pre interview still maintain importance through interviews? So what part of all that pre pre application application [00:02:00] material still is relevant when you get into the interview season?

Oh, yeah, that's a great question. I would argue most of it is still relevant, um, but organization, of course, is going to be huge throughout the entire process. So interview season really can be such a chaotic time. You know, you're trying to schedule meetings, plan travel, still balance your rotations and your work.

So keeping organized, um, keeping a calendar, balancing your budget is going to make this a lot easier. We talked about. Uh, also professionalism as one of the low hanging fruits. Professionalism within your communication is, is important here. When I, when you're extended an interview, you know, show your interest, respond quickly, answer every question that they pose.

You know, how, how troublesome it is when you email someone five or six questions and they only respond with two answers, it's like, I know. So answer intentionally address those emails with appropriate greetings and answer a phone calls in a quiet environment. If they called to talk about planning, try not to answer while you're at [00:03:00] work or the kids are running around, um, give them the same respect and professionalism you would expect.

them to give you. So that same professionalism and organization that you needed pre interview is going to be a common theme throughout the interview day, making sure you show up on time, that you're prepared with concrete examples of your experience. If you've been asked to provide a presentation, make sure that it's clean.

It's got neat fonts, white background, easy to read. And again, have somebody proofread that and edit your work. I will repeat that until I go blue in the face, but it really makes. makes such a huge difference there. So professionalism and organization are the two key takeaways that do extend into the interview process too.

And go back and listen to, we have a ton of episodes about the interview process and, and things to, um, consider and keep in mind, but I think those are really good tips, um, just to kind of keep in mind as you go through that process. So Elizabeth kind of [00:04:00] keeping. That in mind and on the flip side, which elements are maybe less important or do you, does anything really become obsolete?

Uh, we did talk a bit about this on part one, and I want to kind of reiterate that. It's obsolete what you've done in the past, you can't change anything if you failed a course or you didn't get a job that you wanted, you can't change it at this point, they are obviously okay with you not being totally perfect because they offered you that interview, but they may ask you to reflect on that experience or your missteps and you should be able to do that, you know, talk about your personal and your professional growth from that loss or that failure.

So it's not so important. It's important that you're perfect, but it is important to show that you have a growth mindset, that you have grit, that you have resilience, that aspect of your personality becomes more important now than it was ever before. So I'm hearing, and I'm really liking what I'm [00:05:00] hearing, that you should be prepared to talk about everything that was in your pre or your application materials, including the stuff that may be.

You have, you may have thought was like questionable or, Ooh, I don't know what they're going to think about that. Yeah, absolutely. And they may ask you like, Oh, you know, I didn't notice any work experience or I didn't notice. So they may ask you about things that aren't even on your CV, trying to figure out where they are.

And so just be prepared that any question is fair game. Then we talked about branding yourself. We talked about. Selling yourself with pre-application materials, what, how does that change when you're in person face-to-face, or you're on one of these Zoom calls, how, how do you brand yourself or sell yourself then?

Yeah. Well, you know, you really don't get the opportunity to show off your personality on the application side. So now on the interview side, you do kind of struggle to find that balance of professionalism that you're used to and letting your personality shine through. So the Interv [00:06:00] interview day. It's kind of a push and pull regarding professionalism and personality.

I know y'all have talked about before, you know, dressing professionally, muted colors, nice blazer suit, you may think throwing on a pair of fun earrings or skipping the tie makes you appear more laid back, but it may not come across that way to everybody. So professionalism in the way you dress and in the way you speak is important.

That's your first impression. Maintain that professionalism through the more serious parts of the interview, like the presentation or the patient cases, because RPDs are going to be looking for residents who can go to national conferences and make presentations and kind of fit in among the most professional professionals.

But you can contrast that high level of professionalism with when it would be appropriate to show off a silly side. So say you're at lunch, you're at coffee hour, professionalism here may make you appear a little bit boring. So loosen up, talk, talk about your family, your friends, uh, what you're watching on Netflix.

You know, many RPDs look for candidates who are kind of [00:07:00] quote unquote, a good fit for the program and. Not to beat around the bush, but they're really just looking for someone who can have a good vibe, who can easily chat, get along with everybody. So take the time when you have the opportunity for water cooler conversation.

And you will be asked a million times, you know, that, that little question, tell me about yourself. It's awkward, but it's a great opportunity to talk about your personal interests too. So. You can, and you should say what pharmacy school you hail from and what area of pharmacy practice you're interested in, but also include personal moments here.

You know, if you have kids share their names, if you like to run marathons, talk about that. Uh, try to avoid saying things like, Oh, I don't do much outside of school cause I never have time. Or when I do, I just watch Netflix all the time. I mean, that's common. Every, everybody does that. Um, give them something with a little bit more pizzazz and still try to keep it, you know, within that.

That 30 seconds or so. So, you know, finding that balance of personality and professionalism is really important and preparing as much as [00:08:00] you can in advance is going to make you feel more professional during those professional moments and then also, um, Letting loose when you have a minute to breathe in the middle of the interview, show your personal side as well.

I always love that movie, The Intern with Vince Vaughn and Owen Wilson. Have you seen that? Oh yeah. Yeah. I've seen that. I love the part. And I always tell it to my students where they say about the, the airport. Layover tests where they say, is this the person you want to be sitting next to for five hours at the airport, at the bar, when your flight's laid over, like, is that, do they, you, can you pick up, can you carry a conversation?

Are they interesting to talk to outside of just the purely work stuff? Yeah. And I think that's what they're looking for. Programs want that. And especially if you're on an interview day with other candidates, you know, they may be trying to. Test with these two people be good Coke co residents. So talk, get to know everybody there.

It's your chance to show off your personality as much as it is your chance to [00:09:00] know the personality of the people you may be working with one day. Yeah, because you may, this may be a future career and these might be the folks that you are hanging out with at work and outside of work. And so, yeah, great points.

So when does trying to be a standout candidate stop, if ever? Well, of course I have to tell you, it never stops, you know, through residency, I'm into my professional life and I'm still trying to be a standout person. You know, I think that's a kind of a common thread in the professional pharmacy, that desire to do our best to never stop pursuing excellence ways to continue that throughout your career is.

To kind of embody that balance of professionalism and personality that we just talked about, you know, try to avoid one or the other taking control all the time. You are both a pharmacy professional who does require continuing education. You have to possess leadership skills. You, you gotta focus on patient safety.

But at the end of the day, [00:10:00] you're still an individual. You got friends, you have a family, hobbies, interests. So sometimes one side May outweigh the other, you know, I've had to miss a rec league softball game one time to go to a conference. And I may have to miss out on writing a case report if I'm out on maternity leave, but it's okay if I have to balance those two unique parts of who I am.

And I think investing in both personal and professional aspects of life makes you a better and more well rounded and more standout individual, even after residency's over. Yeah, this is a major part of your life. I think you, it's really good to be able to look back on it positively. Be that person.

They're like, Oh, they were great. Oh, they were, it was fun having them. They really showed, you know, shh, they went above and beyond. Versus the, you're, you're in the RPD's office or you're in your, uh,

And they're like, so we heard this from one of the, or, you know, one of those bad talks, you don't, you don't want to [00:11:00] be in that situation. You want to be the one that's still impressing them throughout. Cause that's, that's essentially what they're investing in when they, you know, rank you, or they, they offer you the job they, they want, you to You know, you stood out, you impressed them, and they want to see that happen.

Yeah, definitely, and you can impress people in different ways, you know. You don't have to impress people with your clinical knowledge all the time. Impress them with your flexibility, with your, uh, ability to roll with the punches, or to show up on time, you know. Smaller things can really make a difference and make you stand out too, as apart from just how quick you are on the draw with that drug info.

Yeah. Impress them with your small talk. This one goes out to Dan Ventricelli, who was a fellow when I was a PGY2. Everybody's like, Oh, Dan, he's great at small talk. Dan's the best at small talk. So like you can have these cool things that people are really impressed by. Everybody loved that Dan could, you know, carry a conversation at any point in [00:12:00] time, any throughout the day and just great to talk to.

So. That's a skill. I wish I had that skill. Dan, teach me your ways.

All right. Well, that's all excellent advice. Elizabeth, is there any piece of advice you want to leave just kind of as a last minute, um, tip? Yeah. You know, I started as we were getting ready for this podcast, I kind of started reflecting back on what I wish I had known during the residency interview process.

And, uh, I kept coming back to this quote that I read during my residency. It was from President Obama's book. It really stuck with me. Uh, so I wanted to share with y'all, he said, enthusiasm makes up for a host of deficiencies. And I love that. I mean, there's so many times during residency or during the residency application process where you just feel deficient or inadequate.

And I think that's so true. Just like facing the day or facing the task at hand with a little bit of enthusiasm can really make up for that deficiency that you have, you know, [00:13:00] enthusiasm during the interview process, during residency, so on and so on. It really makes you stand out. Elizabeth, we appreciate your enthusiasm on the podcast today.

And in our last episode, thank you so much for joining us and be sure to check out the farm five podcast on all your major podcasting apps. Thanks so much for being here today. Thanks to y'all. Thanks for, for hosting this podcast. It really does make a big difference and I know it's a great resource for many residents and potential residents out there.

So, uh, thank y'all for having me and best of luck to everyone applying to residency.

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