Calling All Skeptics and Rational Non-Believers

Will: [00:00:00] Karen? Yes. We've been doing this show for quite a while now. Mm-hmm. . And we've had lots and lots of conversations about metaphysics, spirituality, spiritual awakenings, paranormal, all kinds of things. Right? But have you ever stopped and thought to yourself, If all these conversations really were legit.

Karen: I think about that all the time.

Do

Will: you I do. Oh my God, I'm so glad I'm not the only one. . I mean, so Is spirituality as we know it real, or is it just a figment of our wishful, fulfilling imagination? That's the question that we're asking today. Yep. It's, tackle the hard questions day, and by the end of this, We're gonna have a very clear understanding of whether those paths we are all talking about have any type of legitimacy or not.

So no doubts. , welcome to the Skeptic Metas.

[00:01:00]

Will: Karen, I've got a story I wanna share with you. Oh boy. You might have heard it before. Cuz this is a story that has been told before. Mm-hmm. , but it really struck me the last time I heard it because it's such a great analogy for our spirituality. Ready? Yep. Okay. So many years ago in Thailand, there was a temple that was called the Temple of the Golden Buddha, and there was this huge statue of a golden.

And word came to this village where the monastery [00:02:00] was that an army from a neighboring country was about to invade. And they got this brilliant scheme to cover the Golden Buddha, which is quite large. And. F, you know, gold,

right? So they they covered it with mud and concrete. So that looked basically like a stone Buddha. Mm-hmm. so that the army were perceived no value in it when it came.

Well, sure enough, when the Army rolled in, With all their signs and weapons and all that kinda stuff.

They pass the monastery. They saw nothing but a huge stone Buddha. So they had no reason to plunder it. Well, years went by.

And in the village, no one remembered after all these years that the Buddha was actually golden. Until one day a young monk was sitting on the Buddha, meditating on his knee, and as he got up, a little piece of concrete happened to crack off and he saw something shiny.

Well, he realized it was gold under there, and so he ran to his fellow monks and said, the Buddha is gold, the Buddha is gold. And they all [00:03:00] came out and they realized he was telling the truth and they took their picks and they hammered and eventually they unearthed the Golden Buddha. so what's the moral of the. Well, the moral is that Each of us is golden by. We were born golden. We were born knowing that we're all connected to our bliss. We were all born knowing the truth. all born knowing that everything is spiritual and one with each other, and the Christ and Buddha and everyone, but.

We would go to school and they said, you have to dress like this, and this is what boys do. This is what girls do. This is what black people do. This is what white people do. And on and on and on. And we developed this casing of stone over us as the Buddha to a point where at a young age, maybe 5, 6, 7, we believe that we we're the stone Buddha and not the golden.

And then something comes along that cracks our casing. Maybe it's an injury or a financial setback or governmental change, or [00:04:00] a spiritual awakening. Something that really scares us and knocks off a piece of our armor. And only in that moment when the armors knocked off of us, do we actually get to look inside and see the gold.

 Okay, Karen, I hope you're ready for this one. I'm ready. According to this week's guest, Mark Hunter Brooks, he's the author of the book, Earth's Hidden Reality. One reason why people are searching for answers regarding spirituality is that.

They don't know why things are as they are or how they work. Now, while his book doesn't claim to have the answer, it does however, provide a starting point from which to explore these important questions. Now, he's had numerous spiritual experiences since 2003 that have profoundly change changes worldview.

Welcome to the Club Mark Today. He writes and speaks about the mechanics of the non-physical. Helping make what many consider to be [00:05:00] mystical, easier to understand. Now, mark, I know you don't claim to have the answers, but you do have a scientific background and all four of your books have really come, at this topic from a firmly scientific point of view, right?

In fact, your books started out as a oriented justification of what Christians believed in faith without using religious doctrine or dogma in the explanation, and it grew from there. Is that right?

Mark: That's correct, and thank you very much for having me. I'm really excited about being on the podcast.

And the way I would like to explain all this is to talk about truth because, and, and I'm gonna start off this way and, and build up from there. I hope I do a good job with it,

Will: wait, so wait. You're gonna start with the truth.

Mark: I,

Will: a loaded word,

Mark: with the concept of truth.

Will: Okay. I gotcha.

Mark: so there's subjective truth and objective. And subjective truth is often based on people's personal experiences. And, and that's what people of faith have oftentimes is subjective truth. [00:06:00] But objective truth is what scientists do with experiments and, uh, they'll beat a hypothesis to death. They'll try and disprove it.

And it's only when they can't disprove something that they'll start believing that it may be true. And that's the essence of the scientific method. But these two, um, methods of finding truth, subjective, truth and objective truth don't really mix with each other. And actually the scientists. Um, acknowledge subjective truth, which the people of faith believe, and that's what got me started with my book.

And I had had these spiritual experiences for a number of years before I started writing. My first book came out in 2016. I had been having experiences since 2003 and um, the whole idea just kind of mushroomed from its beginning with my first edition. But I did want, want to try and justify what people believed in faith.

And with this [00:07:00] fourth book, the first, second, third, and fourth book, they all build on each other. And with a fourth book, I really feel like I have something that I can share with people and that would be meaningful for people. As we said, or as I said before we got started, is I'm not a scientist. I'm not a theologian.

I'm not a philosopher. So what I want to do is show how this can be real, how this can work, um, and point a direction that people may not have gone in and make connections to help other people who have more of a scientific background. Bring these things to fruition and, uh, study these concepts in more detail.

But, uh, yes, that's, that's how I got started this fourth. Um, has gone a lot farther than the other three in terms of, uh, trying to bring about a, a science-oriented justification for reality, not necessarily for justifying what people believe in faith. And the essence of the [00:08:00] book is, is that reality is not what people generally believe.

Karen: I have to know, you said you'd had a bunch of spiritual experiences, in the past. Can you just give us an example of one, like how, how strong was it that it kind of led you down this, this path of questioning?

Mark: Oh boy. Back in 2003, I had just moved to, uh, a new city, you know, with my job. And, um, there was a friend of mine who came from the old city where I was at, and we had lunch together.

And after lunch I was talking to him and I said, you know, when I move my hands, I can feel this pressure. And he said, oh, that's your energy field. And I said, oh, that's interesting. And so it turns out he had studied for the ministry. He had done a lot of, uh, work, you know, with the spiritual, and he gave me a set of exercises to do to, uh, sensitized my body to my energy field.

And so I worked on that for about a. [00:09:00] And then, um, for some reason or another, which I don't really want to go into is, uh, I read a book, it was called Deliverance from Evil Spirits by Father Francis McKnight.

Karen: Ooh.

Mark: uh, you could probably still find that, but it's a how to book on exorcism.

Karen: Oh my gosh.

Mark: I know

Will: Okay.

Mark: Hello. I'm, and I don't do, I don't do this stuff, but uh, I read it and I was very skeptical and I said, how can, just saying words do things.

Um, but one Saturday morning I was lying in bed and I tried it out and it actually worked, and after about five minutes, I could feel the stuff going on. And so on Saturday mornings while I was lying in bed, I would sit there and play with it and, uh, these energies would move. And then one Saturday, uh, there was this energy that wouldn't leave me and that's what got me started.

And so, um, you

Will: wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, [00:10:00] wait, wait, wait, wait. Is it a bad

Mark: Yeah.

Will: You, you say that so easily. So yeah, I just kind of play with the how to exorcism and it worked. . So that implies that you had some sort of exorcism, like he said, worthy . He said he didn't wanna

Karen: get

Will: too much into it. I know. Oh my gosh. I know.

Maybe get a little bit into it now.

Mark: Well, and, and actually I don't do it anymore. I mean, but it was like the first year or two years when that was the only kind of technique that I had. That's what I was using to. Basically I was using my sensitized body and I could feel these energies move when I did the exorcism commands because my body was sensitive to it and I could, I could feel the energies moving up an arm or a leg or through my body and stuff like that.

So that's how I knew that it was working. Um, but that's what got me started. And really the essence of the spiritual experiences I've had over two, two decades. Is that, um, I can feel [00:11:00] energies moving through my body. Uh, I can hear things and recently I can see things at night too. So, yeah,

Will: Why does it always have to be night? I was just

Karen: gonna say,

Will: why is it always at night? It's a scary stuff. I don't wanna see it at night. Was it at nighttime?

Mark: yeah. So, so, so let me try and give you a science explanation to that. How's that? Um, I, I, uh, am a ham radio.

Will: I'm just a ham .

Karen: And they have begun people, . The dad jokes have

Will: begun.

Mark: and, and one of the things they talk about is how the atmosphere changes at night. and, um, ham radio operators can make these long distance radio connections at night by bouncing their radio signals off the ie.

Uh, but you get better connectivity at night because there's a change that happens, uh, to the atmosphere at night when it goes away from the sun. So I think that's why you have, um, more of these instances of seeing beings from different [00:12:00] dimensions. Um, you know, appearing. Now, some people can see 'em during the day too, and I know some people who have had near death experiences, uh, who have had some psychic after effects, and I can explain that too.

Uh, but they can see things during the day as well.

Will: You can explain psychic. Okay. We're gonna have to have like lots of conversations out that Cause I see repeat guest in my, yeah, I do see a repeat guest cuz uh, you're speaking my language, right? Like how explaining these things are. What I set out to do in the first place when I created the show. So, it sounds like you and I have a lot to, to talk about,

Mark: Cool. Well, why did Jesus tell his followers to believe things in faith if he knew them to be true?

Will: Mm-hmm.

Mark: And my answer is, is because reality was different from what. People generally, or different from what people generally believe. And the essence of my book is, is that reality is fully wave based [00:13:00] and not particle based or quantum mechanics based or atomic based.

It's we're all packets of waves. And so if you use that analogy to explain things, uh, in my book I explain scientific anomalies. How miracles in the Bible could be explained, how the paranormal could be explained. Uh, psychic paranormal abilities. I call them spiritual abilities. And, um, we can get into it a little bit later, but I say those are real, but those are actually how non-physical beings in different dimensions communicate, travel, perceive, perceive things, and manipulate.

And what people on earth in the physical dimension, you know, when they have these paranormal abilities or whatever, they're tapping into these non-physical abilities, uh, through their physical body because they're a multidimensional being as well. And that's how you can have all these things. Oh yeah,

Karen: would you, [00:14:00] how would you explain, then, you know, I'm trying to think of a religious thing that most people would know, water into wine, everybody knows it's even in songs. So if you could explain that, like how, how would you explain Jesus turning the water into the wine?

Mark: Oh my

Karen: I, I don't know. You know, I, I tend to think a lot of the Bible stories are stories, um, to give examples.

But if you're saying these things actually happened or can happen, how could they happen?

Mark: Let, let me, let me pick another one is, uh, the feeding of the 5,000. How's that?

Karen: know, I was debating between that one and the water and the wine

Mark: Yeah.

Will: So many, so many

Karen: choices. I was thinking of ones that people would know about, so you

Mark: Now, now this is just, you know, one explanation. You know, I don't wanna say it's the explanation. Um, but if you look at matter as being packets of waves, um, instead of particles is, it's easy to replicate those waves, uh, and bring them into being. So when you have a loaf of bread, [00:15:00] or if you have a dried fish, you can create another set of wave packets of that fish or of that bread to, to bring those things into existence.

Karen: Like an echo.

Mark: it's, I explain it a little bit more in my book. I don't, I don't know if it would be appropriate for a podcast,

Will: Yeah. . Yeah. It might get too far into weeds. Well, that's true, but what I can't wrap my head around is when you're saying we just create other packets of ways, like, let me reach in my pocket and we'll pull up with this packet. I got a packet full of pockets or pocket full of packets.

Mark: Yeah.

Will: How does, can you go a little bit into like the theory. Packets of waves, cuz it's very different than quantum physics, which is what we've been talking about all this time. Mm-hmm.

Mark: right. So let me use an analogy, uh, to talk about a fully wave based reality. I'll use the analogy of an FM radio. So imagine you have an FM radio in your hand. You have a big dial, [00:16:00] and uh, when you change the FM radio dial, you move from one station to another. So in a, a wave based reality, using that same FM radio analogy, when you change the dial, you move from one reality to another because they're at a different frequency or you move from one dimension to another because they're at a different frequency and those.

And those realities and those frequencies can coexist in the same physical space. And that's been another one of the problems of the particle quantum mechanics paradigm is they say that you have these multiple dimensions that are these super tiny, you know, subatomic things that exist that you know they have.

Images of ants, uh, crawling around a wire, you know, from a half mile away, you know, or whatever, but they say it's something super tiny. But in a wave based reality, these other dimensions and other realities within the same dimension can exist in the same physical space. Just like you have [00:17:00] amfm radio, communications, tv, uh, wifi communications and mobile communications.

They're all at different frequencies, but they all coexist in the same space.

Karen: Or like color isn't, is like white. All the colors together

Mark: Yes.

Karen: and then you could

Mark: The they're, yeah. And, uh, a Prism can split them out.

Karen: Hmm. Hey, look at that. I just impressed myself. , . Go meet.

Will: Right? so the thought of tuning into different frequencies. It kind of goes in line with a lot of the conversations people are having.

The fact that love is a frequency, we're all energy, right? We, we just have to shift our energy, our vibrational levels or rate of frequencies to, to ascend or things like that. It makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure if they don't potentially live together, quantum and wave mechanics might not be too far apart.

They might be able to coexist or is that not possible?

Mark: they, they actually do. And before I get into that, I [00:18:00] wanted to say one of the reasons why people don't believe. Folks who are intuitives or mediums or uh, people who work with energies is that they say, you know, well raise your vibration. Well, everything is energy. Well, I'm trying to give you an explanation of how and why that can be real.

So when you tell people who work with energy, you know, to, when you explain, raise your vibrations, you say, raise your vibration because you're a wave based. That kind of puts it in context to make it more real. And that's one of the things that I think this book does that my three previous books didn't do.

I had more questions than answers in the earlier books, but I have a lot more answers in this fourth book.

Will: Well, I'm gonna ask you some questions about your books in a minute because, uh, I'm fascinated by them and, and we'll get into it in a second. But before I do that, one of the concepts in your book, you talk about infinity. And for my mind to picture, like, how's it possible that things [00:19:00] just go on forever and ever and ever?

How you have a way of explaining how infinity could actually exist, right?

Mark: Yes, and I'll, I'll add a little context around that, is that in mathematics you have the concept of infinity where numbers can go on, whole numbers can go onto infinity, and fractions can keep getting smaller and smaller and smaller into a, a small infinity. . Uh, but science doesn't believe that infinity exists in nature because they say in a closed.

Environment, like an enclosed universe, you can't create new matter or new energy. All you can do is just transform matter into energy and energy into matter. So they don't believe that infinity exists in nature, but that's in a three dimensional world, three dimensions in time. And what I say in my book is, and I believe it's in chapter eight of my book, if people want to look at it, is.

Look at our, our dimension, our reality is having four dimensions [00:20:00] and where you have, um, a whole number infinity and a fractional infinity in the fourth dimension. Uh, that's the first dimension where things can loop. And they have, um, a geometric. Object called the Tesser Act. That's like a super, a super cube.

And there's an image on, um, um, come on, on Wikipedia. Excuse me. Uh, there's an image on Wikipedia, I think Jason, HES is the guy in Europe who did a public domain, uh, gift of, uh, a Moving Teer Act. But if you look at it, that tesser act is really a TAUs, and a TAUs is a. If you can imagine a, a Taurus, uh, in your mind, you can move that Taurus, or it's like a bicycle tube.

Uh, you can move that Taurus in and out. You can turn it in a circle and you can kind of like move it in over end, over each other. But it's a fourth dimensional object. [00:21:00] And because it, it moves like that in fourth dimensions. I say that Infinity can join together in the fourth dimension in terms and, and become a.

So you can have the full, whole number, infinity, join with a fractional infinity as a fourth dimens, fourth dimensional spatial, uh, re or fourth dimension. Spatial, spatial, fourth dimension, whatever you want to call it. Uh, so that's, that's the concept. But, uh, it's now does it exist in reality? And I'll say that the whole.

Infinity goes into a black hole and we have black holes in the center of galaxies and you know, in the universe. And then they have the concept of white holes where the matter that goes into the black hole and disappears, it comes out is just little bits and particles, uh, out of the white hole. And from that, that's how you get this regeneration of, uh, [00:22:00] Well, I say in the book that what a white hole really is is, and we've been researching it for years, it's the Big bang.

The big bang is really just the emergence of matter from a white hole.

Karen: I was gonna ask you if that's what that was. Ah, makes perfect sense.

Mark: And, and so if you look at it as reality being four dimensions instead of three, you can say Infinity exists in. Because that black hole white hole loop, the Big Bang as being the emergence of matter from a white hole, that is the example of infinity existing in nature, and that explains how infinity can exist.

Will: Oh,

Mark: And it's, it's been a

Will: heady concept.

Mark: Yeah, it's been a conundrum. Cause math, mathematicians say infinity exists, but scientists say it doesn't. But there's so many times that people use mathematics to justify the existence of things in physics, and then they go after experiments to try and prove the [00:23:00] things.

That, you know, mathematics says was true. And I think that's how Einstein did his theory of relativity is he did things mathematically. And then it was later proved with, uh, I believe, uh, a solar eclipse in the 1920s where they showed how light bends around the sun, uh, as it comes around, you know, from an eclipse.

But they actually proved a mathematical theorem. And so that's the same thing, but that's my explan.

Will: So then bringing it back to spirituality, when people say that we're energy and we can't be destroyed, There's an infinite loop of life after life after life. That's kind of the concept you're describing, right? We're trying to bring it back to spirituality in a way that my limited brain can understand.

Mark: Yes. And, and let me also say that, uh, one of the reasons why I wrote this book was to help people who had more of a left brain [00:24:00] rational, linear thinking mind wrap their minds around the spiritual.

Will: Mm.

Mark: it's, it's very hard for people who aren't creative. I know the creatives have creative minds have an easier, i, an easier, uh, which I say opportunity to embrace all these things and, uh, linear thinkers normally can't.

So that's, that's really one, one of the purposes for my book, but

Will: how does that speak to. what happens after we die, like is, is do you believe that there is life after death? Before you answer that, we've gotta take a quick break, but I want you to start thinking about your answer so when we come back, you can give us your take on life after death, we'll be right back.

Will: Hey, hey. We have a new five star review this time from Dr. Susan Corso, who is a past guest. She's in the United States, and . The subject of her review reads all skeptics. Welcome. She says, omg, will and Karen are skeptics.

Yes, indeed they are, but willing to open their minds and [00:25:00] hearts for the sake of both learning and teaching. We had a wild and wooly conversation. I know. I learned, and I'm sure they did too. There's nothing like genuine curiosity to open the floodgates of mystical knowledge. I even listened to them after I was a guest.

Can't get much better than. Dr. Corso, thank you so much for taking the time to leave us a review, and if you would like to hear your review read on the air right here on the show, please feel free to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or on our website. It's super easy to do super fast, and we really appreciate all feedback.

We want to grow and get better, so please feel free to leave us your true thoughts on a review.

 And we're back to the skeptic meta physicians. We're with Mark Hunter Brooks, and he is the author of Earth's Hidden Reality. And we are talking some heady, heady stuff who talking about, uh, packets of waves and uh, uh, wave we are [00:26:00] beings of.

Karen: Yeah. It's so hard you can't even talk about it.

Will: Yeah. , you're struggling.

And the fact that different frequencies can live simultaneously together. And the one question that was left outstanding that I really wanted to ask you is if all this stuff is scientifically proven, I guess, or, or we can be scientifically argued, uh, in with your, your theories, what does that mean for life after death?

Is there such a thing or do we, do we not exist beyond this physical pla.

Mark: So let me, let me start off and say, um, with all of my years of experience, you know, 20 years of spiritual experiences, all the research that I've done, all the writing that I've done, I firmly believe that we're eternal spiritual beings. You know, that haven exists, that God exists, that it's real, and that people who search for it will.

Now, uh, going back to a scientific explanation for life after death, [00:27:00] you know, when I earlier talked about infinity, I said that scientists said you can't create new matter or destroy matter or, or energy in a closed environment. But in this closed environment now in a wave based environment, you can have multiple dimens.

So our, our being can exist in a higher dimension and move to a lower dimension or move back and forth between dimensions. If you're a wave based being, you can do that movement between dimensions and.

Karen: what's happening when people are seeing spirits? Are they just, um, their waves ahead are in a different dimension and waven back this way,

Mark: It, it, it, it depends. And on the cover of my book, I actually have a, an image of a spirit. And it's a spirit that I've seen dozens or a couple hundred of times. Um, and it doesn't appear that way on the cover, but I say that in the, in the opening segment. But a non-physical or non-farm being will have a shape of a [00:28:00] ta.

Um, and a form based being in a higher dimension will have more of a human-like shape. Um, but when we, when we start out, let's say we're an eternal being, uh, we're a being a wave based being that is going to have layers of energy wrapped around ourselves as we descend, uh, from a higher dimension to a lower dimension.

And the reason why we have these layers, Of, uh, energies wrapped around our body is because we're going from a, a less dense dimension to a more dense dimension. And I'll explain that in a minute, but when we get down to the physical dimension, uh, what we see is these layers of, uh, around our body is really the aura.

So the aura is these layers of energies that, that we acquire as we descend from the different dimensions. So now let me explain that [00:29:00] briefly.

Will: please do

Mark: I, I, I use, uh, a thought experiment. I call it a geometric thought experiment. Uh, so imagine that you have a wire shaped cube in front of you. You have a square, a line, and a.

You can turn that cube to look like a square. You can turn the square to look like a line. You can turn the line on its side to look like a point, but a point can't be a line. A line can't be a square and a square can't be a cube. Does that

Will: Okay with you so far? Yep. Mm-hmm.

Mark: And I'll, I'll use another, uh, ex or another analogy of it is you can take a movie.

and stop a movie so that that one frame of the movie will look like a photograph, but a photograph can't look like a movie or can't become a movie.

Will: In essence, you're bringing it back to the three dimensional reality where, we are all these things, but in a, in a lower vibrational frequency, we [00:30:00] are limited. We are the photograph, we're not the film.

Mark: No, I'm saying we're the film. But, uh, in order to become the photograph in this physical dimension, we have to turn our cube to look like a square. We have to descend from one dimension to another one at a time, and that that descending. Action is descending into a, a, a more dense dimension. And, um, so in the, in the geometric thought experiment, you can descend one dimension at a time.

You can descend one dimension. Or higher dimensional objects can descend, but lower dimensional objects can't ascend. So this, this is gonna be like a little heartbreaker for, uh, the religious people who say, you know, we're born into this temporary body and we become an eternal being is using this experiment that can't happen.

What you are is you're already an eternal being who comes into this physical [00:31:00] dimension and you leave it when you die.

Will: Right.

Mark: So, uh, getting back to explaining death is that, and, and I talk about the different densities. Of the different dimensions in my book, and I don't, you know, it's maybe a little too technical to go into that, but if you imagine that the different dimensions have different densities, what death is, is your wave based consciousness moving from a more dense body into a less dense body.

And there's actually a hundred year old books that the Philosophical Society wrote that talk about the ASL dimension and the mental dimension, these higher level dimensions. And they talk about our different bodies, our, our etheric body, our astrol body, our mental body, and our causal body. And they actually say, they wrote it a hundred years ago, that when you leave one dimension and go to another, you die in that dimension.

Your body, you leave your body. Higher dimension to go to an even higher dimension. [00:32:00] So basically all death is, is us moving from a more dense body to a less dense body, and that is us as an eternal wave based being. So

Karen: as we, as we move along to that less dense body, so this is kind of my how I'm different a little bit than will, um, I mean I really appreciate all of the scientific as well, but I also tend to think, um, more emotional.

Mark: Yes.

Karen: you know, you think about dying and you're gonna be in this happy place and there's all this love.

But if you're just dropping a bunch of energy, like when I think of energy on its own, I don't attribute an emotion to that or a feeling to that. So the way I'm hearing it, I'm like, oh my gosh, you just end up being this energy with no emotions. Is that, what are your thoughts on that?

Mark: Well, let me give you a different way of thinking about our bodies, is that, uh, you have a lot of questions that people ask or scientists ask, that are doing cert research on consciousness, you know, and, and you have materialists who say that [00:33:00] your consciousness is really just the cumulative effect of neurons firing in your brain, and that when you die, your consciousness die.

But that's because people are looking at it backwards. And I'll say, look at it, uh, uh, from the other way around. Start with your consciousness and build your body around it. And it's kind of like, uh, and I'll use another analogy of you're in a, a self-driving Tesla car. Uh, in your

Will: Yes, I am

Mark: Yes, you are. You know, and, and, uh, you've got self-driving mode.

You, you have, uh, oh, what is it? I, I wanted to say You have traffic avoidance mode.

Will: That one's broken in my car. . I have traffic. Uh, look for traffic. Yeah.

Mark: Yeah, so, so anyway, but people look at, at a person driving a, a self-driving vehicle, you know, which, which is our body, they look at the vehicle, they don't look at the driver. But if you're doing all these experiments and all this research on [00:34:00] the self-driving vehicle, you're gonna come up with all these things about the brain and about neurons firing and about all these abilities and, uh, EEG measurements, you know, Around your brain and your mind, but you're not going to see the driver of the car.

So if I say we're a wave based being, you're wave based being, and, and really, and this is for another conversation, um, at the very highest dimension, you know, in a formless existence, we're beings of light. So when you say we're wave based beings, we're really beings of light. But that's another conversation.

I'll, I'll leave that, I'll leave that out. But, but,

Will: I'm hearing you correctly, then to answer Karen's question, we are our consciousness. So when we leave to Karen's question, it's not that we are no longer conscious, we're not some formless

Karen: thoughtless, no, I'm thinking of like the the cube, you know, the lines fall or the density getting less and less and lessened until you end up with just, A single stream.

So as we lose density, as we, you know, leave our body and kind of go through [00:35:00] the, the different waves or lose the waves, that kind of final wave that we end up with, does it have any sort of an emotional component at all?

Mark: And, and this is from, yeah, this is, from what I've read, is that our spiritual self has, you know, an emotional component, but each time we come down into the physical, we adopt a personality. and, uh, when, and it's the same thing when I mentioned before, you know about people looking at consciousness from the Tesla perspective as opposed to the consciousness perspective.

Um, it's the same thing with people talking about reincarnation, is they're looking at the physical body instead of the consciousness, you know, coming into the body and. Origin, who was an early church Christian, church father, uh, he said in about 200 or 300 ad, uh, that we were, uh, preexisting souls and he was getting closer to, you know, this whole concept that we were eternal beings coming [00:36:00] into this physical body.

But if you want to look at an explanation for reincarnation, and this'll blow your mind too, it kind of blew my mind when I realized this, is that if you're in a higher dimension that's outside of. And you go into a dimension that's in time. You can place yourself at any point in that timeline. And science says that all time exists simultaneously.

So you don't have to have a serial existence with your reincarnations of yourself. Yourself can come in, in the year 2000. And it can come in again in the year of 2002 and in 2004, and you can have three instances of your spiritual self going through that timeline, living lives at the same time. Uh,

Will: does blow my mind

Mark: and, and.

Will: my heart. My head hurt a little bit

Mark: Yeah, I know, I, I was saying the same thing. There's been so many times when I've been doing this book that I've just think, oh my gosh. And I had to just sit there and drop [00:37:00] it and just go walk away. And I was just saying, oh no. Oh no. Oh, no.

Karen: then we have to rename past life regress.

Mark: Yes.

Karen: current future paths, all life. Maybe alternate life, not, not even a regression. The situation. .

Will: Yeah. Alternate life visitation. There we go,

Mark: But. But it's a, it's a way to explain past life regressions and, you know, multiple lives and things like that.

Will: Cause you're actually tapping into those lives. It's not like you're going back and remembering, you're actually going back and experiencing are you going? You're crossing over and experiencing it

Mark: Right. And, uh, let me go back to this geometric thought experiment for just a second. I wanna add another little twist to it that'll, that'll make your

Will: wait, there's more

Mark: Yeah. Wait, there's more. I love that. I love that. It was a commercial right

Will: yeah.

Mark: is, remember we talked about the cube, the square, the line, and the point and how a point can't look like a line and a line can't look like a square and a square can't look like a cube.

But have you ever seen a fan book? You know this little book with multiple [00:38:00] pages that when you fan it, you can see a horse running or seeing all those things. Those imagine those to be a. So if you have a series of squares and you move it through time, you can simulate that extra dimension of movement so you can use time to raise yourself up to another dimension.

Will: Oh, good

Karen: Lord. So you can make a cube and then even throw that cube into a rectangle.

Mark: Yeah, there you go.

Will: I don't think my mind has enough squares to figure this out.

Mark: I love it. I love it. I'm glad I can make someone else's brain hurt. Mine's

Will: Yeah, so then what you're saying, if I'm understanding you correctly, then this can really explain everything that we talk about on this show, right?

Astro projection is just a, is just a changing of the frequency so that you go offer for a period of time into another dimension, another frequency, uh, same thing with. Um, psychic powers and, uh, carvoys and channeling and all. Yeah, [00:39:00] channeling Absolutely. Uh, Bigfoot. Yes. Yes. Uh, even UFOs everything and explains everything.

Mark: Yes. And that, that's one of the outcomes that I could see from my book, and I'll step back a little bit, is to say that I'm, I'm saying that science needs to change. That reality is not particles and quantum mechanics, that it's really waves. Um, but by having multiple dimensions, I can say from a, a spiritual or a.

Uh, religious standpoint, I can say yes, I can show you that Heaven exists. God exists. Jesus was real. But on the downside, all these miracles you talk about in the Bible and in these other books, uh, they really obey the laws of physics. And the same thing with the paranormal is that, you know, you could have, um, witchcraft, you could have, uh, reiki, you could have.

Think of any name, all these other things, they're all basically the same principles of [00:40:00] physics. So I'll, it'll be a downer for a lot of people who, who have had all these different trainings, you know, they've learned things that are the same things by different names and using different visualization techniques to do them.

And I'll, I'll give you an example, is, uh, intercessory. So to the way I would explain things or explain intercessory prayer to people is that you concentrate on an outcome. Say someone's, uh, had an accident, they're in the hospital, and my, my favorite, uh, image is to say, I imagine them laying in their hospital bed, getting up out of the hospital.

Taking off the road, putting on their street clothes, walking out the hospital door, down the hall, and outside the hospital into the arms of their family and friends. And that's, that's my visualization, but that's what I, I concentrate on. And my intention is that, that they get well and they get outta the hospital.

So this combination of [00:41:00] concentration, visualization, and intention, that's the same principles that are used in spell cast.

Will: Huh. Right. So Karen, I think this is a mic drop episode, which basically sums up everything we've always been asking out there. So I think this might be the last show, last episode, we've answered all the questions we're over. Thanks for ruining though. Good thing for crying out loud.

Mark: Well, I, I hope you'll have me back so

Will: Yeah. No, I think we've got a lot, a lot to talk about still. this has been a fascinating Oh my gosh. Yeah. Time conversation. no, this is not the last episode. , though it could possibly be. It could certainly be our finale, but we've had so much fun talking to you, mark that, that we definitely will ask you to come back mm-hmm.

and, uh, and dive into some of these concepts a little bit more in depth as. further on down the road.

Mark: Well, I appreciate it very much. I've had a great time. I, and, um, thank you for having me.

Will: absolutely. Thank you for coming [00:42:00] on.

Karen: Well, I was just gonna ask where can we get your books?

Mark: they're available on Amazon, and you want the, the blue book. It's, it's Earth's hidden reality. Uh,

Will: I, before we go, I do need to ask you, you, you wrote the four books and they build on each other. Do you have to read all four books or can you jump in in the middle of one of 'em,

Mark: Um,

Will: like the fourth book, for example?

Mark: there, I, I say that each one is a plateau of where I was in my own spiritual development. So in 2016, I wrote my first book and, and I tell people, and that was just crap. That was your first book. You, you mess up and you do all these

Will: So don't read that one.

Mark: Don't that one. So, but, um, the, the second book is, uh, double the size of the first and a lot more scientific, but I didn't really have well developed ideas and concepts there.

I was just exploring stuff. The third book talks a lot more about multiple dimensions. It's starting to get things down. But the fourth book I really have the answers to, uh, [00:43:00] the first three books are variations on the title or variations on the theme of Christianity from a different perspective or from a spiritual perspective.

And that's going back to my original intention of trying to prove scientifically what people believe in faith by, by not using doctrine or dogma, because I knew science. People, you know, wouldn't, uh, listen to doctrine or dogma as an explanation. So that was my original goal. It's still my goal, but, uh, it's kind of expanded with this book, you know, by, by going beyond religion. But I can see, I can see combining all the different worldviews, the scientific worldview, and the religious worldview into a single worldview, and using the paranormal as the link by saying that from science you have multiple, multiple dimensions. And in those dimensions, heaven can exist, non-physical beings can exist that have spiritual abilities that are, and then here's the link to the paranormal that.

Paranormal abilities we have on [00:44:00] earth, which, uh, are the miracles and the Bible that you see. They're just the spiritual abilities, the paranormal psychic abilities that non-physical beings who came to earth use to help us with our spiritual development.

Will: Right.

Karen: Yeah. That, yeah. Everyone could just jump on that bandwagon. Right?

Will: That'd be great. . Well, mark, you are, not doing a great job of trying to sell your own books. Set for this last one, but we appreciate your candor. We are gonna put direct links to your books directly on our show notes. So if you're interested in taking a look at Mark's books, just go to skeptic meditation.com, his episode page, and then you'll see the links directly listed there as well.

mark, this has been fantastic. Really appreciate you coming on.

Mark: Great. Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Will: Yep.

Karen & Will: And thank you for coming along on this journey of discovery. You know, someone that would benefit from hearing the messages we shared on this episode [00:45:00] or any of our others. Well, we'd really love it. If you would do them a favor and share the show with them, it's super easy and you might just help change someone's life.

And if you're listening to this on the radio, missed anything, not to worry all of our shows, including this one can be found@skepticmetaposition.com, where you can also watch the videos or even send us email or voicemails directly from the site. We absolutely love feedback and would appreciate hearing from you.

we hope that you've enjoyed this episode as much as we have that's for now, but we'll see you on the next episode of the skeptic IANS until then take care.