Messages from Beyond: Astonishing Encounters with the Afterlife

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0:00:01 - Speaker 1
Karen. Yes, After all of the interviews we've conducted since we started the show, I have to finally ask you the question that I've asked lots of our guests but never had the opportunity to ask you. 

0:00:12 - Speaker 2
Oh boy, you ready no. 

0:00:15 - Speaker 1
Well, get ready, because here it comes. Do you believe in life after death? 

0:00:19 - Speaker 2
Of course I believe in life after death? 

0:00:21 - Speaker 1
Of course you do, yes, of course. Well, if you can believe it, though, there are still so many people out there that are either unsure or simply don't believe that there's anything beyond this life that we are currently experiencing. 

0:00:33 - Speaker 2
I believe, it. 

0:00:34 - Speaker 1
Well, this was the case with today's guest, but thanks to some extraordinary events and circumstances, everything completely changed for her, and now she believes she knows the truth about our life after this one Wonderful Now, what were these events that completely changed her mind? We'll dive into that and so much more on this episode of the Skeptic Metaphysicians. My name is Will and I'm Karen, and, unlike Mulder and Scully, we both want to believe, so we've embarked on a journey of discovery. 

0:01:04 - Speaker 2
We've talked to people deeply entrenched in the spiritual and metaphysical world. 

0:01:07 - Speaker 1
We've thrown ourselves into weird and wonderful experiences. I even joined a coven of witches. 

0:01:12 - Speaker 2
And wait, you joined a coven. 

0:01:14 - Speaker 1
Yep, all in the interest of finding something, anything that will prove that there's something beyond this physical, three-dimensional world we all live in. This is the Skeptic Metaphysicians. Oh, we need to slow down. Okay, I need to slow down. 

Now, if you've been listening to the show for a while, you've heard already about the changes in my professional life, how I went from being responsible for a single market or territory to having my responsibilities expanded to four markets. So really the entire East Coast, from New England all the way down to Florida and into Louisiana, is now my territory. Well, when I only had one market, that was easy for me. The job was easy. I had set things in place that made things kind of automatic. So I was able to really focus on my spiritual life and slow down and allow spirit to be with me, to be present, because I wasn't constantly thinking of what else I had to do at work. I was able to take it one step at a time. 

Now that I've inherited three additional markets, I'm finding myself having to move a lot faster, like a lot faster, in order to keep up with the demands of the other markets, not just because there's other markets, because those processes I put in place in the one market. Well, they're not there any other three. So as I try to wrap my head around how to bring everything into alignment, at the same time making sure that none of the balls that were left to me are dropped and that I continue to push forward with progress in my responsibilities, I find that it's a lot. It's taking a lot of my energy, a lot of my time, a lot of my focus and, like I mentioned before, when my mind can't process it all during the day, the only option that it has is to process it at night, and so I'm having a hard time sleeping, like a really hard time sleeping because of it, because my mind is constantly going, going, going while I'm sleeping. So then today, yes, as in every day, I start meditating, and the meditation I get messages I'm supposed to get, and so I wanted to share those messages with you, because you might find yourself in the same place as me, where you're being asked to do a lot, and if you're like me and you like to succeed, well, your natural inclination is to push forward as hard as you can to conquer it, to make it happen. The problem with that is that sometimes parts of you that are needed get left behind when you're focused on just the one, which is success. 

Our spiritual well-being needs slowness, needs focus, needs calm, needs peace, serenity, being in the now. When you're rushing, rushing, rushing, doing everything you need to do to get things done because professionally you have to get things done you tend to not be in the now, but always in the future. Right, what's next? What do I have to do? What else do I have to figure out. And that's not really conducive to spiritual growth, and it's hard At least it's hard for me to balance the two. So I have to keep reminding myself that I was put in his position without being asked for it, that I have to accept things as they are, that I can only do what I can do and I have to make sure that it doesn't infringe on my health, in my well-being, my mental health and in my family, most importantly, my spiritual well-being. And so, by my recording this and sending this out to you, it's my way of sending out an affirmation into the universe, to try to remind myself that I need to take the time for me. I can only do what I can do and I'll diligently move forward as I can, but I've got to keep myself centered, I've got to keep myself in the now, and I can't be this anxious and distressed about moving forward with what I have to do at work all the time. Now, it doesn't mean not do the work, because I do, I take pride in it, I love what I do, but it means slowly and steadily moving forward to put processes in place that will allow me to get back my peace of mind, and I recommend that, if you find yourself in the same boat, you do the same thing Focus on your well-being, on your calm, on your presence first, while you're putting things in place in your professional life that allow you to maintain your peace. You can always, you should always, put your well-being first, and if you're trying to do too much, well, that's a sign that you're trying to do too much. 

Hi, I'm Will and I'm Karen, and in today's main topic, we're once again diving into one of our favorite topics life after death. Our guest is a former lecturer in law at Cambridge University who found herself suddenly bereaved about four years ago or so. At the time, she didn't really believe in life after death, but when she suddenly started to receive extraordinary signs and messages from beyond, she realized that her beloved husband was trying to show her the truest from beyond the veil. She's the author of what's Apps from Heaven and we're thrilled to welcome Louise Hamlin to the show today. Louise, thank you so much for coming on. The Skeptic Minerva Zisions. 

0:06:26 - Speaker 3
Thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to be here. 

0:06:29 - Speaker 1
I am excited to dive into your story because it is a really fun story and one that may make others change their minds. But before we get into the actual story I mentioned in your intro, you didn't really believe in life after death before your husband died. Is that right? 

0:06:49 - Speaker 3
Oh, I was a lawyer and my husband was a lawyer as well. He was a barrister, and we had very sort of, if you like, conventional thoughts and we thought that death was the end of all. We didn't totally close our minds to it. And when my husband was dying, we discussed the possibility of whether there was life after death or not. And he said well, I really don't think there is and I'm not scared of death because I think it's going to be nothing at all. If, by any chance, there is a life after death, well, I think I'd be a good enough person for that to be okay. 

And I felt the same. I haven't totally closed my mind to it because, you know, you can't prove that there isn't life after death. But on the other hand, I was very skeptical. I was a conventional lawyer, if you like, and a land lawyer at that. So when he died I was totally and utterly devastated and I couldn't bear to think that that was the end of Patrick. But on the other hand, I thought it was very unlikely that there was going to be life after death for him or for anybody. And it was then the things that happened that, you know, made me change my mind. 

0:08:26 - Speaker 1
Right, and we'll get into all those things that happened before we do. Did you and Patrick, your husband, did you make a play Like? Did you say, hey, if I pass on, I'll try to send you a message from the beyond if there is something or anything like that? Or was it just? 

0:08:40 - Speaker 3
No, funnily enough, we didn't. I don't think it occurred to us to do that. I guess because we didn't really think that there was life after death. You know, the only things we said to each other were well, how much we loved each other and how fabulous our marriage should be, and what a bummer it was that he suddenly got cancer and died. 

0:09:04 - Speaker 2
Well, it just sounds like what I like about it at the root of this story. It's a love story. You have this wonderful relationship and I love that. 

0:09:13 - Speaker 3
Oh, totally. I mean, it was the second marriage for both of us and we just met in 2005. And neither of us imagined that we were going to find love again. And we did and it was so wonderful and, yeah, they were very, very happy years. They really were. 

0:09:39 - Speaker 2
And it sounds like that love transcended or is still transcending here to the spiritual realm. 

0:09:46 - Speaker 3
Oh, I mean, I don't think that love ends when somebody dies. No, and I still love Patrick with all my heart and I feel loved by him as well, and yeah, yeah, love certainly survives there. 

0:10:03 - Speaker 1
Oh well, we're going to dive into how you feel you're still being loved in a second, but tell us about the passing. I know it was a very traumatic event for you. We just talked about how wonderfully in love you both were. You weren't together for very long. You had just met in 2005, you said, but your connection was so strong that when he passed, the sadness, the grief was incredible. So then what happened after he died? 

0:10:30 - Speaker 3
Well, I mean, I was just completely and utterly devastated and I couldn't really function. You know, I just sort of sat like a zombie and very luckily, the children and friends and neighbors were fabulous, because I couldn't really do anything at all. I was so shocked and destroyed and then, actually just five days after he died, I had a WhatsApp, and your listeners might not know what WhatsApp is. It's a sort of texting app and it's very easy to send photographs with it as well, and in the UK it's ubiquitous. Everybody uses it all the time. I don't think it's quite so common in the States. 

0:11:27 - Speaker 1
Yeah, no, we do know about it, because Karen has family in Ecuador and they use it as well. So every work it's like football, right, like soccer Everybody in the world plays it except us, really or cheers on for it, where everybody in the world uses WhatsApp except for us. I think it's starting to hit in this area, but it's really a text messaging but, like you said, you can send videos and phone calls and photographs and all kinds of things and it's encoded and answered. It's very private. So it's a really great app, so a lot of people use it. Sorry to interrupt, but yes. 

0:12:00 - Speaker 3
Yes, no, no, but everybody in the UK uses it and you can make WhatsApp groups. So you know, I have a family group with the children and we can all post on that, and then the rest of the group sees the post and sees the photograph and what have you? And so most people have that, and so there are always groups showing grandchildren doing this and grandchildren doing that. You get the idea, anyway. So Just five days after Patrick had died, I had a WhatsApp from a friend who is also a bit psychic and she said oh, in this WhatsApp, louise I don't know whether I should tell you this or not, but I'm going to this morning I was sort of thinking about Patrick and I asked him to send me a sign if he was a K, and I asked him to send me a flame sometime today, not in a fireplace but otherwise a flame. And she said and then I went about my day and, to be frank, I'd rather forgotten about it. 

And this evening, when I went to draw my curtains, I looked out of the sitting room window and from the neighbouring garden I could see a very tall, thin flame. And I rushed and got my phone and took a photograph of it and here's a photograph of it. And she said, and then it died down quite shortly thereafter and she sent me this photograph of this tall, thin flame, and you couldn't see, you couldn't see the ground, so you couldn't see what was actually causing it because there was a fence in the way. But anyway, and my friend Jenny, she said I'm sure that this was a sign from Patrick saying that he's OK. And you know, I read this and I looked at the flame. And, jenny, you also said you know I don't believe in coincidences. Well, of course, at that time I did believe in coincidences and so, you know, I thought, well, it'd be jolly nice to think that it was Patrick, but I suspect it was a coincidence. It was a strange flame, but I suspect it was a coincidence. 

0:14:33 - Speaker 2
I think it's wonderful now how our loved ones are reaching us through technology. I had a similar situation about a year ago. 

My best friend passed, and it was awful and I remember a couple of days later, just kind of saying, hey, I need to sign, you know that you're still around, that you're OK, semi-agnolia. And then I kind of forgot about it. Well, the next morning I wake up and my mother from who's in I mean, we're in Virginia, she's in Florida, so it's a few states away texted me and said I wanted to send you this picture. I don't know why I was compelled to send it to you, but I was taking a walk today and I saw this and it's a picture she took of a big, beautiful magnolia and it was just so out of the blue. So I'm like, oh, I totally resonate with your story. 

0:15:19 - Speaker 1
And I have to ask because you mentioned you did not believe in life after death. We've talked about that several times now, but a friend who is psychic was not something you took in. I mean, you took it very much in a stride that she was psychic and sending us these messages. 

0:15:34 - Speaker 4
Well. 

0:15:35 - Speaker 3
I, yeah, I mean I do. I am very fond of her and she's a bit of a healer, and so you know, I sort of understand that. But I wasn't convinced by this. I hoped it was true, but I wasn't convinced. And then I actually decided that I would ask for something and and see, and so I asked Patrick if I could have some snow drops. And he died in February and so snow drops were in season the little white flowers and I thought I'd give him some time. So I asked if I could have some snow drops, be given some snow drops within the next three days. So, yeah, I thought, right, okay, well, we'll see what happens. And the next day my best friend came to stay with me and at the end of the third day I said to her oh, you know, I'm really disappointed Because I actually asked if Patrick could send me some snow drops within the next three days, and the three days are up and he hasn't sent me anything. I guess that his spirit hasn't survived. 

And yeah, and my best friend. She put her head in her hands and said oh, I can't believe it. And on her way to come and stay with me, she stopped off for to farmers market and there had been a stall selling snow drops and she said I had this really strong urge to buy you some snow drops. It was such a strong urge and I resisted it because I kept on thinking that that's stupid, because Louise is going to have masses of flowers in the house, she won't need any more, and so Wow. 

And so that's the sign that didn't work. But on the other hand, you know, I could imagine Patrick sort of trying to say to my friend, anna, buy the snow drops, for goodness sake, just buy some snow drops for Louise. But then, but then things started happening and I asked them for a feather on a train. And the next day I was catching a train and I got on the train and it was quite busy. I saw a couple of seats that were vacant at the far end of the carriage. So I went and very quickly sat on the seat, before anybody else could, and I glanced down at the seat next to me and there was a feather on the seat and, and you know, there was nothing feathery at all about the carriage. Wow. So I thought, oh yeah, I have got my feather. 

0:18:49 - Speaker 1
Yes, I would say so. 

0:18:51 - Speaker 2
It's so random on a train. What are the odds of that? That's not yeah. 

0:18:55 - Speaker 3
But of course it wasn't enough to convince me, but I was pleased. 

0:19:00 - Speaker 1
Sure, sure, even if it was a coincidence, it's a very happy coincidence anyway, yeah. 

0:19:06 - Speaker 3
Yeah. 

0:19:08 - Speaker 1
So then, kieran, you mentioned how amazing it is that our dear loved ones are using technology to reach out to us from the afterlife. That kind of ushers us into the next phase of the conversation, because what's up suddenly started becoming a very big thing with your departed husband, and we need to take a break. But when we come back, we're going to talk about some very interesting messages you received by electronic means that you don't want to miss. We'll be right back right after these messages. And now back to the skeptic metaphysicians. Hey guys, wanted to let you know about another show that you should be listening to. If you're like our show, we're sure you're like this one too. 

0:20:06 - Speaker 4
Spirit Sherpa, the show that helps and encourages you on your journey to unlock your magic mojo, and I'm here to walk you through the next stage of your spiritual awakening. If you're new, start at the beginning and you'll learn the basics, from crystals and tarot cards to how to evolve and grow as a person. If you're further along in your journey, then start in the middle and learn more esoteric concepts. Join us as we explore the extent of the energy world and the depths of ourselves, all while having a great time. Spirit Sherpa on your favorite podcast player. 

0:20:41 - Speaker 1
And we're back skeptic metaphysicians. We are speaking to Louise Hamlin, who was a skeptic for a long time. Life after death was something that she did not really get behind for very obvious reasons. She had been an attorney and because of that, the pragmatic mindset did not allow her to believe that there was such a thing as life after death. However, after her husband passed away, that all changed and we've talked about certain signs that she was being sent by him from the other side. But now this is where it starts to get really interesting, because electronic means is not something you would think of that our departed loved ones would have access to in the afterlife. However, this does not seem to be the case. You did receive some pretty interesting messages via WhatsApp messaging app. Can you tell us about those? 

0:21:33 - Speaker 3
Oh yeah, certainly. Well, it all started when I was out of the house and I returned to the house and the house had been locked and empty. No radio had been on, so the house had been totally silent. And I'd left my phone in the kitchen and I looked at it and it had opened itself up into WhatsApp and it had then gone to the WhatsApp bit where it would send a message to Maria and the message box was then absolutely full of random words and it went on and on and on and I could not understand how that had happened, seemed impossible. I was about to just delete it all and I thought oh, actually I'll send to Maria and ask her what she thinks. 

And Maria was a medium whom I had consulted, and when I'd seen her she very clearly sort of had contact with Patrick and in fact Patrick had sent her robes and lights and things. Patrick seemed to communicate with her very easily Send me. I sent the WhatsApp to her. All I did was just press send and I sent her another message saying hey, I found this. No idea how it got there. So she replied well, I don't know what it is, but there we go. The next day I got a message from her and she said the same thing happened to me. My phone opened up by itself, ready to send a message to you, and the message box was full. And here it is. And there was a shorter message with some random words, but amongst the random words were words that make sense, and three times it said darling, it's me and wow, I'm getting goosebumps up and down. 

0:24:03 - Speaker 1
Wow, that's incredible. 

0:24:05 - Speaker 3
I know, I know Right, and I sort of totally trusted Maria. But of course there was a tiny little bit of me which thought, well, could she have made this up? 

0:24:18 - Speaker 1
Of course, yeah. 

0:24:19 - Speaker 3
And the next day, I think, it was sent me another message and she said I found this. And actually what was quite interesting was on that message it started saying by saying 1-8-0-2-1-9. And that actually was the date that Patrick had died, because in the UK we say the month in the middle, we go day, day month. But of course Maria didn't know that and there was no reason how she could have known that really. And I replied to Maria saying oh, this is odd, what do you think these numbers are? And this was sort of me slightly testing her. And she said I have no idea, I wonder if it's barcode or something. So I thought, yeah, that sort of suggests that she hasn't done it. And quite a lot of wonderful messages followed and things that I could make sense of, but I don't know that anybody else particularly would. And I was very excited by it all and very hopeful. 

It wasn't until the August that something happened that I absolutely and totally knew for sure that Patrick was using WhatsApp. I was walking my dog on Tooting Common in London and I had the third in my pocket. I got back to my son's house where I was staying and I pulled the phone out of my pocket and it said you have created two new WhatsApp groups, one consisting of you and Patrick, one consisting of you, patrick's daughter and Patrick, and they were called Hamlin's and Hamlin family. And I stared at this phone and I knew that I had not created these groups. And it said I'd created them at six minutes past 11 in the morning. And I knew that at six minutes past 11, I'd been walking on the common with the phone in my pocket and it's quite complicated to create a group. I mean, you know it couldn't have happened just with pocket jiggling or jiggling the phone. 

0:26:33 - Speaker 1
Especially named with those particular names. 

0:26:37 - Speaker 3
And the appropriate names and everything. I was gobsmacked. I thought it must be Patrick. It must be. I mean, I showed it to my son and his wife and my son is also a lawyer and you know he's sort of quite black and white. 

And he said, well, you know, there must be some explanation. Maybe somebody had your phone. I said, well, I had the phone in my pocket, my pocket. I said, well, I had the phone in my pocket investigating to see whether there was any way anybody could somehow have hacked my phone and created these WhatsApp groups on my phone. And in the end he said to you know what, mom, would be impossible for anybody to have done it. And he said it must be Patrick. And I said yeah, yeah, and all these WhatsApps that I'd been getting there from Patrick, and I was thrilled. 

0:27:43 - Speaker 1
Of course that is. 

0:27:45 - Speaker 3
Thrilled and delighted. 

0:27:47 - Speaker 1
Yeah, extraordinary story, extraordinary signs that even the biggest skeptic has to kind of take a look at and go yeah. Yeah, that's, that's incredible. So then that obviously cemented the thought in your mind that there is indeed life after death. 

0:28:11 - Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely Do you know. I don't believe in life after death. I know now that our spirits survive Right, and that's a lovely knowing to have. 

0:28:23 - Speaker 4
Yeah. 

0:28:24 - Speaker 2
Have you gotten any messages on either of those groups? 

0:28:28 - Speaker 3
No, but I carried on having a lot of messages, sort of via Maria. Maria kept on saying, oh, I've just found this on my phone and I haven't had a WhatsApp for about a year now, but I had them for about two years and they were lovely, lovely messages. 

0:28:47 - Speaker 1
Yeah, of course, and then so those messages weren't the only ones that you've got. You got a very particular message, like revolved around a playing card, right? 

0:28:56 - Speaker 3
Yeah, now this was extraordinary because this also had witnesses. Oh yeah, lots of things were happening. But then one day I was playing bridge with three friends, and I don't know if you know how to play bridge or not, but you have two packs of cards and you use them alternatively. So we played the first hand with the red cards, then we played the second hand with the blue cards, and then it was time to use the red cards again and my friend dealt and she was a card short. So we assumed she'd mis-delta and we all counted our cards, but no, nobody had an extra card. So we sort of looked to see if the card had fallen on the floor. No, no, I mean you know that the pack had been complete because we'd already played one hand with it. 

0:29:52 - Speaker 1
You just played right exactly. 

0:29:53 - Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. So we started to search for this card and we were searching more and more fantastically, thinking this is extraordinary. The card can't have just disappeared. We were wrong thinking that was the case. Anyway, my friends sort of knew that I had these signs from Patrick and eventually, when we just could not find the card anywhere, somebody said I bet it's a heart, I bet it's from Patrick. He's taken the card and it's a heart. So we looked to see what the card was and it was the nine of hearts. And so they said does that mean something to you? And I said well, that seems perfectly random. Yeah, yeah, I mean the queen of hearts. 

Yes, the ace of hearts, but the nine of hearts, it didn't mean anything at all. Anyway, we had to go and get another pack of cards to continue the game and a couple of days later I told a friend this story because I mean we were all gobsmacked by it, the way that the card had literally disappeared. And this friend happens to do tarot, which I don't do and Patrick never did either. And the friend said oh Louise, the nine of hearts is the equivalent of the nine of cups and that's the most wonderful loving card in the whole tarot pack and it means total, undying love. 

0:31:27 - Speaker 1
What and oh gosh you too. 

0:31:32 - Speaker 3
And isn't it extraordinary that Patrick somehow had learned that in the afterlife? 

0:31:37 - Speaker 2
That is amazing, and there's something that I have to tell you now and Will. This might catch you's price too, and I know you've kind of been. 

I've been looking away, but I have next to me, on the right hand side there's a computer and it changes the screensaver. And when you were telling us your story about the flowers I was kept thinking to myself I really wish the friend would have bought those flowers. On the screensaver a bunch of white flowers appeared and I noticed that and I'm like I don't know what kind of flowers those are. So I've actually been looking on my phone to see what snowdrops look like. I mean, I can't say that there are snow drops, but they look just like them. The screensaver that appeared while we were having this conversation. 

0:32:15 - Speaker 1
So, patrick is, I just want to share that with you because, patrick, is reaching out to you right now through our show to confirm everything that we're talking about. That is incredible. 

0:32:26 - Speaker 2
Incredible. I'm like where is Mazar? And I'm like I mean, it looks just like him. 

0:32:34 - Speaker 3
Oh, that's so lovely. Oh, I'm so delighted, yeah and that's wonderful. It is wonderful. 

0:32:40 - Speaker 1
I do know that he's still around you know and I was going to ask have you continued to get messages through the years or have they subsided? 

0:32:51 - Speaker 3
They have subsided. But whenever I go and visit Jenny, the psychic friend who saw the flame and had other signs as well, which she told me all about, she actually is a healer and she gives me healing, which is lovely. But whenever I arrive she says, oh, patrick's arrived already. Or after a few minutes she'll say, oh, patrick's come. You know, without fail, patrick appears while I'm with her, which is very nice. 

0:33:22 - Speaker 1
Well, it seems that Patrick is here with us now. 

0:33:26 - Speaker 2
He's still here, that's extraordinary isn't? It. It's amazing. 

0:33:33 - Speaker 3
But typical of the man. Yeah, yeah. 

0:33:35 - Speaker 2
Now it's just the mountains, so I just happened to flash those flowers at that time when we were talking about it. 

0:33:41 - Speaker 1
Wow, that's incredible. Well then you wrote the book. What's Apps from Heaven? What could someone expect to find in the book if they purchase it? 

0:33:51 - Speaker 3
The lower title is bereavement in the 21st century. So I write about what happened and I also visited mediums and I write about that and some were more successful than others, some were extraordinary, and I also write about how I navigated my bereavement for the first two years. So I hope that it's a book that will give consolation to people who are bereaved and will also be sort of helpful to people who just don't know how they're going to carry on, because I didn't know how I'd carry on and so I say you know, I write about things that I found helped me and things that didn't help me, and also there's a lot more detail about signs and things. I wrote the book that I would have liked to read when I was first bereaved, right? 

0:34:56 - Speaker 1
Well, we are going to add a direct link to your website where people can buy your book in our show notes. All you need to do is go to skepticmanavisitioncom, go to Louise's episode page and you will find the link directly laid in there for you to make it super easy to access Louise. This story is probably easily one of my absolute favorites that we've had on the show, so thank you so much for coming on and talking to us about sharing your story and your experiences with us in our audience and sharing the power of love Absolutely. 

0:35:28 - Speaker 3
Thank you. Thank you so much. I have really enjoyed talking to you, babe. 

0:35:33 - Speaker 1
And we have with you as well. And now I'm going to go see if I can find some snow drops. Thank you again. We'll see you again soon. 

0:35:41 - Speaker 3
Lovely, okay, bye-bye. 

0:35:47 - Speaker 1
Hey, hey, our old friend, john Messina, the UPS driver who sent us a message talking about how our show helps him to make him feel normal. You know that review that Karen constantly comments about how much she loves and how to become one of her favorites, and in fact we talk about it on other shows we go to, because his message really meant so much to us, because that's exactly what we're trying to achieve Make sure that people feel normal out there, because this stuff, this stuff is normal and no one should make you feel otherwise. Anyway, our friend John wrote us again. This time he said hey, will and Karen, john Messina, again, the UPS driver that left a review a few weeks ago. I just wanted to say I love you guys. Thank you for really hearing me with my last review and stating, not only on your show, will, but also on your bonus feed episode for World Awakenings, karen, that mine was your favorite review to date. I don't expect or need you to read this review on the show unless, of course, the universe, your higher selves, god, etc. Tells you to. I just wanted to tell you that I really appreciate not only being heard and understood but, most importantly, being appreciated for my input. 

I put off listening to the bonus episode because I wanted to get a few new episodes in my queue before jumping back in. And when I heard Karen bring up my review on an entirely separate podcast, it made me feel better than you can imagine, gave me chills, and I immediately thought to myself wow, I love you both so much so I had to jump back on your site between deliveries and tell you how much I appreciate the both of you. You're the kind of people that, at my lowest points with humans, give me hope for the species and inspire me to keep pushing on with my journey. I feel like there's more I want to say, but as I sit here typing, I'm realizing that, although we've never met in this life, there aren't any words that can truly express to you how I feel about you two and how much of an overwhelmingly positive impact you've had on me just by doing what you're doing. Thank you, will, for not giving up on the podcast, and thank you, karen, for following your intuition about the show and looking into the reviews before letting Will end the show. You've truly made my life so much better by being in it, even if it's just as two voices in my head while I work, john. Once again you have made my arms fill up with goosebumps. You sent chills down my back. 

Your words mean more to us than you could possibly imagine, and if you don't know what he's talking about, we almost shut the show down a while back because it was taking so much of our time and our effort, taking time away from our family. But then Karen did a Google search on the show and found all the reviews on Apple podcasts, review after review all five stars, except for two, which were four stars, and everyone talking about how much this show has affected their life in a positive way. That's when she turned to me and she says you can't shut the show down Even if you're helping one other person out there beside you. This show has to continue. So, john, thank you so much for calling that out. It means a lot to us that you took the time to send us this long message, and your kind words about us bring literal tears to our eyes. We are so grateful for you and we hope that one day soon in the future we'll be able to actually meet and share a hug together. And a huge thank you to you. 

Yes, you, the person that hit play on this episode. We know that there are tons of options out there, and having you decide to come along on our journey of discovery with us is an absolute honor for us. We hope you've enjoyed this conversation as much as we have. If you did and you feel called to give back, we invite you to visit our website at skepticmetaphysician.com, where you can donate to the show or subscribe as a member through our Buy Me a Coffee campaign. Your support will go a long way towards allowing Karen and I to bring you these wonderful conversations and teachings in more and more robust ways. Of course, if contributing to the show content is what you're looking for, instead, we'd love for you to contribute by sending us a voicemail or an email from our website, or leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or any other podcasting platform that supports them. 

Karen and I love hearing from those that are moved to message us. It truly does fuel our passion. You are the reason we do this show, and knowing what you like and don't like help us craft the very best show we can so that we can help raise the vibration of the planet together. Now, if you know someone who would benefit from hearing the message we're sharing on the show. Do them and us a favor and share the show with them. It will help get the word out about us and it might just change someone's life for the better. Well, that's all for now. We'll see you on the next episode of the Skeptic Metaphysicians. Until then, take care.