Can Romantic Relationships Continue After Death?

we

Will: have got a love story in our hands today.

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: Ooh, I like that.

Will: A love story. I thought you'd like it. But, may not be exactly what you think.

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: Well, as long as it's all about love, I'm good.

Will: It is all about love. Well, after all these years of doing the show, and all the interviews we've done about life after death, connecting with loved ones on the other side, near death experiences, I'd say you and I don't really have any doubts that there's lots more to this world than meets the eye, right?

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: I would agree.

Will: Well, I'd also say It's really nice to know that our loved ones are here with us, ready to help us anytime we need them to, although they might be on the other side, right? Mm

Karen & Will: hmm.

Will: Remember that old movie with Demi Moore and Patrick Swayze? Ghost. Ghost. Mm

Karen & Will: hmm.

Will: What if they could have kept that love going, even after Patrick had died?

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: Well, I mean, it sounds great, but there might be some challenges. Ha,

Will: ha, ha, yeah.

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: Well,

Will: do you think it's possible for us to continue relationships we have on this side with those that have passed over to the other side? Mm hmm. [00:01:00]

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: I think we can. I think they might have to change a little bit.

Will: Well, this one might just change your perspective on everlasting love.

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: All right.

Will: Welcome to the Skeptic Metaphysicians. I'm Will. And

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: I'm Karen. And

Will: today's topic is quite the intriguing one. You see, Pam Johnson, is an inspirational speaker, author, and a channeler who lives in Honolulu, Hawaii, where she met her husband, Alan, during his first [00:02:00] visit to the islands in 1990. Now, Alan was a natural born medium who had contact with the spirit world from early childhood until the late nineties.

He passed away in August of 2020, a sad story for most, but not for Pam and Alan, because you see Alan returned to Pam from beyond and they've continued their loving relationships from across the veil and now Pam and Alan teach direct spirit communication through private lessons and their group coaching program, the supernatural love Academy.

And. She's here with us today to talk to us about soulmates in the afterlife. She says that interdimensional relationships are actually on the rise. And I couldn't be more thrilled to welcome Pam Johnson to the show. Pam, thanks so much for coming on.

Pamela: thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here and talk about this because yes, it's for real, it's happening. And I myself was shocked when people started reaching out to me after I shared my story and wrote our book and I didn't know. [00:03:00] I thought, well, maybe I'm just an outlier, right? Like I, it's just me because my husband's a medium, I'm an intuitive, maybe that's it, right?

But. Lo and behold, they're ordinary people, uh, from all walks of life, even, um, Christian fundamentalists who are shocked when their loved ones start to reach out and say, Hey, I'm here and I want to continue. And then they just think, you know, they're losing their mind, right? Because who's talking about this, you know, nobody's talking about it.

So, so I think we're one of the few voices out there talking about it. So I'm so thrilled that you're having us here because we just cannot stop talking about it because. I mean, I can't think of anything more, you know, hopeful and inspiring than that. You know, that, that our loved ones are not lost to us and we can continue our relationship and, and they're here to support us and help us during what I think all of us would agree are very challenging times.

You know, of course, the spirit world does step it up when the world is going through [00:04:00] crisis. They, they began doing that. At the turn of the century, you know, before World War I and World War II, that's when all the phenomenon happened. You know, the famous Fox sisters and the wraps and taps on the walls that started.

Well, that, that is really what it's about. I've heard mediums say the same thing. The spirit world was reaching out to us. We weren't the ones knocking on their door. You know, they were literally knocking on our, our door saying, we're here to help you. We're here. We think you're just getting louder.

Apparently because I keep hearing of people having contact and we're just here to support them, which is why we started teaching live on YouTube. I decided to kind of carve my own path because nobody's talking about it. So I go, well, I'm going to talk about it. You know, I'm going to get on YouTube and talk about it.

And so people are starting to, to find us and, and yeah, say, yeah, me too. This is happening to me too.

Will: There's a lot to talk about there. I mean, where do we [00:05:00] start, but, um, really quickly before Karen asked the first question, cause I know she's chomping at the bit. You keep talking about welcoming you in the plural sense. Does that mean that Alan is here with us right

Pamela: Oh yeah, he's, you know, this is the thing guys, they're, they're all here. There's nowhere to go. The afterlife isn't some far away place, right? Like a distant star. I mean, reality is enfolded upon itself, so it's just another dimension that we can't see right with our physical eye, but guess what? We can hear them.

We can communicate. They can energetically even say, touch us, like give us tingles or chills. And I have people that have, I have people that have physical contact with their loved one. You know, there's so, so many degrees. This was fascinating. And I'm trying to study this, you know, with the people that I'm meeting that we work with.

And it's, it's, I mean, across the board, like, um, I mean, actual physical contact, but mostly it's, it's [00:06:00] kind of subtle. But definitely communication, definitely messages, definitely, you know, um, across the board, there's, there's contact of all kinds. And I think we're just scratching the surface and beginning to hear about this because again, people are not comfortable talking about it.

They think they're going to be ridiculed or not believed or told that they're wrong or crazy. Right. And, and to me, this is, What this is, is at a similar place as where near death experiences were before they became more accepted. You know, where people who had those NDs, some of them were institutionalized.

Like my, one of my friends, his mother was locked up and it, that drove her crazy. It wasn't her NDE. It was because she wasn't believed and she was thought to be nuts. So she got locked up, made her worse. I mean, she, she really did go crazy. So this is what we're dealing with. But fortunately because of NDEs, you know, people are a little more [00:07:00] open minded, like, okay, well maybe, you know, the afterlife is real, right?

Maybe these people talking about. going through the veil and coming back, you know, maybe that's real. So, but still when I talk to the spiritual community, a lot of them just kind of go, Oh yeah, okay. Like I go, wait a minute, I'm saying that they're still here and they're not earthbound. They're not, you know, hallucinations.

They're here and they're helping people. They're healing people. They're giving them guidance. They're healing their grief, you know, I mean, I don't get it. I don't get why people who are in, you know, the new age community aren't taking it seriously, but my husband from the other side says it's because they haven't lost someone.

So, people don't tend to really go into this unless they are grieving, because they just go, oh yeah, okay, fine. They don't have any, You know, anything to connect with it. They, they don't really completely accept it. They [00:08:00] just tolerate it. And in fact, I've gotten a lot of pushback from mediums. In fact, I have people in my community that go to mediums telling them that they've had these experiences and they're either told, well, your partner's obviously earthbound or, you know, you have to let them go and they're going to bring you somebody.

Somebody knew and this is not what the person wants. They're like, no, I am having this contact and I want to continue and then they, some of them are devastated because they are thinking that, well, maybe my partner doesn't want me to continue, right? Maybe they want me to move on. And can you imagine a worse thing to tell somebody in grief?

Oh, your husband wants you to move on. What are you saying? He doesn't love me anymore. Like he just wants me to go, go to Tinder or something like, what are you talking about? I mean,

Will: Wait, is there a tin? Is there a tinder for the afterlife? Because

Pamela: Probably, I'm sure there's everything, right?

Will: they see all the

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: profiles at once.

Pamela: There you go. There you go. Multidimensional, right? So,

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: what was your [00:09:00] first contact with your husband like? Like how did you know it was him?

Pamela: I knew it was him. I wasn't expecting. even though he was a medium. We never talked about it. He didn't like to talk about death. And, and so when he crossed, I just thought, I really just thought, Oh, well, that's it. I mean, I, he's a medium, I'm a channeler. I mean, that occurred to me, but I started hearing him talk to me and I have a friend who's very clairvoyant.

She can see spirit and she could see him and talk to him. And cause she sees

Will: is like ghost.

Pamela: It is, but do you know that the irony here is that was the first movie he and I saw together

Will: Oh, wait.

Pamela: I know, talk about foreshadowing, right? I couldn't, I swear it sounds too corny. That was the first movie we saw together after we met, because he I met him in Hawaii, and we went to a movie at a local theater, and it was playing at that time.

And so, and so when he came back, he said, Yeah, we're like the movie Ghost, except that Patrick stayed and continued the [00:10:00] relationship with Jimmy. I said, All right.

Karen & Will: Do you do pottery?

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: All right.

Pamela: He was a painter and an artist.

Will: Right. I've got lots of questions about this because, uh, all kinds of things pop to mind, right? Questions about people who, really have a hard time breaking up with others and think, Oh, finally, I'm free. And Oh my gosh, no, I'm not. Right. But, but, but the, the really, we talk about continuing relationships to me.

A relationship is one that you're there for each other emotionally, all that kind of, but also you're also there for each other physically. So um, how does that work with this interdimensional relationship that you've got

Karen & Will: going on?

Pamela: there's, there's, there's all kinds of experiences people are having. Okay. So it's all unique to the person, the couple. What I have discovered through teaching this is that there's, there's two parties obviously to any relationship, right? And so there's them in the spirit world that some of the [00:11:00] spirits are stronger in their ability to come through and make contact, even physical contact.

Some of them, you know, they're learning. So it's more subtle. But, um, but the learning continues, like they get stronger. I've seen that with some of our students, like the loved one is getting stronger and stronger. But then we are the other half of the equation. It's not like this is a passive experience.

We have to develop spiritually. In other words, it's not about really. Becoming psychic because, you know, we're all born psychic. It's not about that. It's really about letting go of your negative beliefs, right? Your, your, your fears, your trauma, because that keeps your vibration kind of low. And when they cross over there at this higher vibe, you know, they're, they're not perfect because you're still growing and learning and evolving.

but they're harder than we are because they drop their ego. So we have to kind of rise up to meet them halfway because they can only come down so far. And [00:12:00] so what we teach is I, I help people just shed their limiting beliefs and we do a lot of healing in our academy. And in basically, I just teach them these principles that 37 years in this, you know, in this field, cause I was always been interested in healing and spiritual counseling and all that.

Um, But it's about that, evolving as a soul, you know, just letting go of your identity, idea of who you are, right, that a lot of times is just taken on other people's beliefs, like your parents told you you're this way, or society tells you you're this way. It's like letting that go and finding out who am I really.

as a soul. What am I here for? So to me, this is a spiritual journey. This is why I tell people, if you want to connect with them and have an ongoing relationship, I don't mean just a one time connection, which some people can have, but have an ongoing connection, you have to develop yourself. So as far as the physical contact you're [00:13:00] talking about with me and Alan, I feel this I can't explain it.

It's this love that is like wrapped around me all the time, and I just feel this, it's like this pulsing, and it's not, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I, it's not sexual per se, but it's more like this warmth, you know, this like this cocoon. And I've heard other of my students say similar things, but some of them actually have physical contact.

One woman does to the point where she can't sleep at night. because her husband is so happy that he can come through. And she's spiritually very open and more developed, let's say than the average person. So, so I think I told her, I think this is why she can connect with him, like meet him halfway. So, so it's like I told her we're going to have to talk to your husband and set some boundaries here because

Will: Take away the Viagra. Take away the spiritual Viagra.

Pamela: Exactly. I mean, and then people in my, my, um, [00:14:00] academy, when they were talking about this in our, our meeting, right? Uh, several of my members of women members said, well, can you tell him to talk to my husband?

Karen & Will: my gosh.

Pamela: Like, could you just go have him talk to him? His name is, you know, like that. It was so funny.

But my husband says, yeah, they're all at different levels and they, they can certainly can learn to do something like that. But even if they can't, I have people who can like feel their partner kind of cuddling them energetically, you know, feeling that connection. And let's just say, even if they're not in a 3d body, most of us would say, I'll take that.

Then rather than thinking I'm alone and having therefore like no contact, you know, and this is not for everybody granted, but for some, for some of these men and women, cause I have men and women in my group, you know, it's for them, they're all in. It's like this person was my person. I don't want [00:15:00] anybody else.

I at least want to see where this goes. Um, I, I would say, you know, admittedly, people have to learn to be independent, especially women. You know, you have to learn to be independent, but I don't feel lonely like at all. I mean, I, I, I'm actually happier now in my marriage than I was when Alan was in a body because his

Will: Wow.

Pamela: his ego was really in the way. Yeah. This laundry don't have to, yeah, don't have to argue about anything. He's no, he's just, he's just here in, in a fuller way. Like, um, and he advises me about things. He's never wrong. I'm like, I'm unlike when he was in a body, he

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: Then he just said he was never around.

Pamela: he would, he would have said he was never wrong, but that would be wrong.

Right. Um, yeah. But it's, it's phenomenal. And he says to me, because, because he was a medium and he was a spiritual teacher, he says that we contracted to do this. And that was why [00:16:00] I've always been interested in spirituality and in, you know, becoming more embodying your soul more, you know, just, just evolving as fully as can be.

I've always been passionate about that for 30 some odd years. So, so it's just, he says, we're here to help with the Ascension. And this whole experience is helping other people, ordinary people in their own Ascension process. And, um, The more of us who are doing this, we're making it easier for other people to have contact, you know, because we're all really one.

So we're not, we're affecting each other, aren't we? Like, like, it's just contagious, right? It's like, as we expand our consciousness.

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: So what would you say to people, because you hear from time to time people that have lost a loved one, you know, spouse, and they're desperate for some sort of sign and no matter what they do, how much they pray, meditate, look for it, they don't see it at all. What's going on there? Yeah.

Pamela: Well, if they are new in their grief, the [00:17:00] challenge is the grief can create like a obstacle or static depends the depth of grief. So however, some spirits are so strong, they can overpower that, but that takes a lot of energy. And in their early days of their. passing. They have more residual earth energy is what I call it to make contact, but that fades as they fully transition.

So if somebody isn't getting signs, I'd say first, you know, it's probably their grave. They just may have to give it time. There are people who get signs right away. And again, it could be the loved one in spirit is just really strong. It could be the person's grief is not that dense, but if. If time, in time, they can still make contact, you know, it just may take a little while.

So, It's, it varies, but I tell people just, you know, don't give up, just keep looking, asking for signs, keep looking. I think that a lot of times people are getting signs, but [00:18:00] they're so distracted, especially in the world we live in right now, where all their, you know, phones and technology, right? People are just walking around looking at their phone, like you're not missing, you're missing the sign, you know, but, um, it can happen.

So I would say, don't give up hope and keep, you know, keep observing, keep asking and keep. Be hopeful.

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: Is it a little bit selfish of the people that have passed on to want to hold on to a relationship with someone on the earth who might still have other things they would want to experience? Like if they're young and they've never had a child, they want to maybe remarry and have a child.

So how does that work? Like, what if the husband is, Oh, I'm still here. And then she has the grief. So she wants to kind of stay with that, but also. You know, be able to carry on her life. Sure.

Pamela: Well, that, that's a good question. And I can say it's the, the, well, in the case of women, okay, let's just say women, since you can talk about children, I, the, the, I've, I've have women who have children with their [00:19:00] partner who passed, okay? And that partner wants to continue to be a parent. Through the veil.

And in fact, this has been written about in other books where the spirit does want to be involved, but if the woman or the man is younger, I mean, that's a different thing. And it's not, I don't know. I mean, they may not come back, you know, because it has to be an agreement. Obviously between the two souls, you know, and ultimately they just want us to be happy.

Uh, so it, you know, it's, I don't feel it's being selfish. I don't think that they're going to kind of come through and say, Hey, I want to be here if they know that their partner is only 21 and they, they want to have children. And obviously the husband, they can't, you know, do that. In that case, I really doubt that their loved one's going to, to, you know, insist on that.

The, but the thing that I get upset about is when mediums tell somebody like that, right, they're, they just lost their husband and yes, they're young and they'll say, well, he wants to bring you somebody [00:20:00] new. And like, that's the wrong thing to tell anybody, you know, even if the loved one in spirit wants to do that, there's no need for a medium to break loved one's heart, right?

Saying your husband wants you to move on. Nobody, nobody wants to hear that, do they? So, but yeah, and I don't think it's being selfish that they wouldn't, they wouldn't do that.

Will: It's not like an automatic thing. It's

Pamela: No, no, no, no.

Will: to you and ask you all over again. Hey, do you want to go steady again?

Pamela: You want to, want to date? Um,

Will: Will you be my girlfriend?

Pamela: My husband did come back and propose marriage to me again

Will: Oh! That's

Pamela: did, well, we got married, um, again, uh, in front, on zoom with some of my, uh, Facebook group members, I think about 20 people. And he proposed to me through my medium friend. I wrote about it in her book and how he proposed to me and he made, he made a ring for me actually have it on.

Um, he made a ring meaning like she, she wove it out of silver. It's, it's.[00:21:00]

Karen & Will: Oh

Pamela: ring and she wrote, drove it out of sterling silver and she, her arm got red hot and she could feel, she can feel the angels. So she said, Alan was chanting some angelic language and he was, she was wrapping this ring.

And it's, it's amazing. So I, I wear this ring almost all the time because it literally was made by an angel, my girlfriend who basically was, you know, channeling Ellen. So they can do things like that. Yes, I have other friends who had these interdimensional second weddings, you know, I mean, somebody, somebody should, should go into business and do this.

You know, I

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: That's a serious destination wedding.

Pamela: def, absolutely. Right.

Will: You thought Hawaii was destination wedding. Wow. This is so, this is so interesting. I've not, I'll be honest. I've not heard of this ever. This is the first time I'm hearing of this. So and it's, it's such, I mean, it makes. So much sense that like for when I die, Karen, you are stuck with me, right?

I'm stuck. Nope. I'm moving [00:22:00] on. No way. Jose . I'm gonna find myself a young hottie. I'm I what? I am that young hottie. What are you talking about? I

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: know. When you're

Pamela: Yeah. Are you kidding? When they cross over, they're, they're eternally young. Like my husband comes through and he looks younger than when he was in a body

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: well if I can see

Pamela: to my friends.

Will: right? Oh, that's a good question. Can you see Ellen?

Pamela: I can see Alan clairvoyantly in my mind's eye. I mean, I know if I tune in, I see what he's doing and I just makes me laugh and go, what are you doing?

Like what he's wearing or what is facial expression? And there's, I understand now that clairvoyance, you know, there's many ranges of it. It's not like 3d obviously, right? It's, it's holographic, uh, they look kind of transparent. It can be a flash in your mind of like, you get a visual. You know, like that's what happens a lot with me.

And I'm seeing him more and more, but I do see his face and sometimes it changes. And of course I have mediums friends, like I said, who are fully clairvoyant. They can see [00:23:00] him, like see him and talk to him. So there's, there's like levels, you know, that we can, and we're always evolving is what I'm finding, at least for me and my students.

And we're getting stronger in our ability. It's not like you reach a ceiling on any of this, you know, you can always develop further.

Will: This puts the whole thought of. Uh, he's, when, when people say, um, I'm sorry for your loss or something like that. And you say, no, he's still here with us today. That brings us to his whole other level. Did your friends who maybe aren't in this world, your family, are they supportive in this? Or do they think you've gone off the deep end?

Pamela: well, you have to remember, I've been in this field for 37 years, so my parents have, have passed, but my parents knew what, my mom was my biggest fan, because my grandmother was a psychic medium. I didn't know this until I opened up and started to feel and see things, because I had lived a very ordinary life, and I had [00:24:00] no sense of the other side.

until I started to channel and then I started to become more telepathic. And, and then my mother said, Oh yeah, your grandmother was a psychic medium. And she used to do readings in Hanapepe Kauai before World War II, because she was a picture bride from Japan. And, and she was, you know, you got Be a pretty tough cookie to come over the Pacific ocean and marry some stranger.

Right. And then start a family. And she was a psychic. So, so when I opened up my mom, my mom said, her mother came to her and said, don't worry about Pam. She's just like me. she'll be okay. So my mother from then on was like, Oh, you're good. Like you'll be fine. And she trusted my opinion about everything because, because her mother told her.

So, um, I don't know. Did I answer your question

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: Yep.

Will: You did.

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: So, were any of your family members at the wedding, like any of your family members that have [00:25:00] passed on,

Pamela: Oh, no. Oh, well, probably, but, but at the, the Zoom wedding, our son was there, you know, our son, our son is very psychic and he talks to his dad and has called out to him for help and received it. So, uh, So I'm, I'm fortunate everyone around me, they, they just know, they go, how's Alan? Or they'll even say, yeah, I kind of talked to him the other day.

He showed up when I was doing it. So it's very normal for us. And, uh, that's just how we live. Like we, we live like he's here cause he's here. And sometimes he's just more involved than others, but he's always around. And my, my son calls on him again, like when he needs them. And, um, Gets advice

Will: want to live in your world.

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: I know. I

Will: do. I want to live in your world. It sounds so much nicer than ours, right? When people are just, you know, people are just accepting and loving and, uh, I mean, I think it's, [00:26:00] that's wonderful. I don't know that I. I'm ready for that having all that said and done.

It sounds wonderful. I just don't know if I'm ready for it because, other than coming back and haunting Karen the rest of her life. Uh, but, but I'd love to go back the original question, which was, I haven't heard about this in ever. Why do you think that is?

Why do more people not talk about them? I mean, there's gotta be a lot of people having these relationships, right?

Pamela: Yeah, and they find me, I can't, I've lost track of the number of people because we published our book at, uh, this Valentine's Day, only two days from now, we'll mark a year since our book came out. And since our book came out and I've been, we're talking about this and, you know, getting noticed and all that, you know, people are reaching out to me and saying, I've had this experience too.

And, and with some of them, which, which, much more profound experiences, you know, contact, and they don't have anybody to talk to about it. So I believe it's because even, like I said, even the [00:27:00] mediums and spiritual community, they don't know what to think of it. They just, because if it doesn't happen to you, you just think, well, that's maybe that person's just, you know, imagining it.

But you know, you can't imagine this stuff. Like, cause if you could, then everybody would imagine that they feel this love and that they have this contact. Cause isn't that what everybody wants? You would think that, right? If, if everybody's grieving would go, but I want my, to feel my husband hugging me or something, but they don't.

You know, partly it's because they don't believe, and your beliefs create your reality, as I think more of us understand.

Will: and partly because you'd freak out if someone started reaching out to you through the veil and started hugging you. Like me.

Pamela: But, but like I told you, we, I've had somebody in my group who was a Christian, okay, didn't believe in any of this stuff and was shocked when she felt her husband touching her and wanting to connect, like physically wanting to make love with her.[00:28:00]

And she, she said, I really thought I was losing my mind. And then I heard about you. I've had people tell me they go online to find out about this and they can't find anything. But somehow they find me because there are people now talking about us like in, on Facebook a lot because I have a Facebook group for partners and spouses.

And so they're talking about it right in these groups and they're starting to hear about it. And if you actually go on Facebook, you'll see that there actually are some interdimensional couples groups. They're kind of here and there and, and so it is being talked about, but it's very, you know, kind of.

behind the scenes, like it's not really out there. And I really think that mediums don't even understand this, because one of the most famous mediums, if I said your, his name, you would know it. He, he told one of my members who he happened to read during some open, uh, reading thing, right? They have online and she was selected.

Well, this woman is herself a [00:29:00] medium and she's having contact with her husband. So she was surprised to get called, but she's a big fan of this medium. And he proceeded to tell her that, Oh, well, you have to let your husband go. You know, you're holding him back and, and basically telling her that, you know, He wasn't really here with her.

And she was like, so shocked. And she came to me for a reading and I said, are you joking? I said, your husband's like, oh, like over your, all over. And she goes, well, that's what I thought, you know? So she was really disheartened because she didn't expect that. And then I heard my husband say, that's how a lot of mediums are taught to say, that you need to let the dead go.

that life is for the living, and you're holding them back, and you can't continue the relationship, you know, it would be dysfunctional. And admittedly, maybe for some people it might be, I don't know, it depends on the relationship. But, but what I've seen, the people I've seen, and I have about 200 members in my academy at [00:30:00] this point, I don't see anybody that has a dysfunctional relationship.

You know, there, what happens is the partner oftentimes wants to come through because they recognize that they didn't love. as well as they could have, that they missed the mark. My husband did. He said, I failed to be the husband that you really needed. And I want to make that up to you. I want to support you.

And besides we agreed to do this work together, but that aside, he said, I want you to feel the love that I couldn't give you because my ego was in the way and I just couldn't be all that I am. Until I died. So he said to me, Pam, is it better that I'm dead? We have this marriage now that I'm dead because I'm, I'm more who I am.

And I said, yeah, because I was frustrated through our marriage because I knew that he wasn't fully himself, you know, but I couldn't get him to come alive. You know, I couldn't get him to snap out of this low grade depression or whatever it was that he was dealing [00:31:00] with. He, and he says a lot of men are like that.

Yeah. Women too, I'm not saying picking on men, but you know, my husband always, you know, would say because he was a psychic, uh, counselor reader for 30 some odd years, you know, say if, if men got their act together, I would be out of a job because he used to say that all the time, because of course, most of the clients were women.

So, and again, he says, I'm not picking on men, but you know, us men, because of our egos, you know, it's just kind of challenging, right? So relationships are challenging for that matter. But

Will: I've got to ask a question and it's not, it's the only reason why I'm asking this question is because our audience is going to be wondering and asking me to ask you this question. I could feel the energy coming through already. What would you say to people believe that, like you just mentioned, that, your husband missed the mark while he was here, and yet now he is a much better husband, uh, after he's [00:32:00] passed.

There might be people who would say, well, wonder if this is just wish fulfillment. Like he wasn't as good now, but so now you, you're kind of imagining that your husband is back in a, in a better form. What would you say to people that would, would claim that that perhaps is what's happening? Oh, um,

Pamela: I. If you, if you're having these experiences in spite of your, cause it's normal to doubt. And I did, I doubted things, but there was so much proof that started happening. Things like, like my phone, like I'd be lying in bed, not able to sleep. My phone would be, you know, on my bedside table face down.

And, um, all of a sudden I, Get a call and I look and it's my friend who lives in Kentucky. I'm in Honolulu. So it's, you know, a big time difference, right? She goes, did you just call me? And I go, what are you talking about? I, she's on her message texting. I said, did you call me? I go, no. And I, and she says, you just called me.

And I go, what are you talking about? [00:33:00] He had called her on my phone. With my phone. All right, and because I was lying there and I was upset about something and she she's a medium So she said okay. He's saying I'm half asleep But he's saying not to worry about it you and I can't you and I will talk about tomorrow.

I'll talk to him I'll talk to you tomorrow But he says not to worry about it and look at your phone and I looked in my phone did call I didn't touch it, but you know, it shows right that you called out, it called, it rang for exactly one minute and that was it. And she didn't pick it up in time because she was waking up.

So I've had that and so many other experiences. Like I was on a zoom call and I started, I started connecting with him and we were talking about something, actually something about supernatural sex we talk about in our book and I'm talking like I'm talking to you, right? And I, you know, this, I don't have a virtual screen.

This is my living room. This was my screen, right? I'm talking with four other [00:34:00] people. All of a sudden, as we're talking about supernatural sex, this fireworks went off on me. Virtual fireworks. A video, okay? I don't have a fireworks video on my computer. I didn't have a virtual screen going. I had this, a real life living room behind me, right?

So everybody was like, Oh my God, I've had those kinds of things over and over. Come on. I can't make that up. And, um, I, I've been in this business for too long. You cannot imagine this, you know, it's just not possible. They're sending songs to people like, like he would wake up my friend, my same friend and go, it's Mother's Day.

I want you to get her. I want you to find songs to give to Pam. And then she'd go look for songs and, and she'd say, okay, he wants you to have this song and that song. They're doing all kinds of things. This is real. And the people are having the experiences, know it, [00:35:00] okay, because you can't just make it up.

I trust me. I know people that want to have this, okay, if you're talking about wish fulfillment and they're not getting it. Cause like I said, the other side has to learn how to come through and they have to believe. So it's not just that because otherwise. Everybody'd be having this, okay. More people be having it, but they're not, because you have to at least be open to the idea and the loved one on the other side has to learn how to project.

And, yeah, Alan says they're not going to really try to learn if we're not open, because what's the point? The person in a body just doesn't know. could be freaked out, right? Like, what the heck is that, you know? And, and they know that, they can tell, so they don't want to upset anybody. But if they feel that open to it, and if maybe this was part of the sole plan, You know, because as you probably know, people make soul plans before they come.

So I think for a lot of these [00:36:00] people, that was part of their pre birth plan. Yes, I'm going to leave early, like especially with these couples, like have children. The father does come through and say, I want to still be a parent to my sons or my, and my daughters, you know, I want to still be involved. And I've worked with people, I've worked with a teenager whose mother is a good friend of mine, and she had a session with me, and the daughter is very psychic, and the father had just died of ALS, and she could feel him, and I led her through connecting to him, because that's one of the sessions I do.

I help people make direct contact, you know, on a one on one session. And she connected with her dad and she said, I know he's always going to be with me. I can talk to him. I hear him. And so her grief is not somebody else would feel, right? Because she knows that her dad's always going to be around her and she has access to him.

And, and so she was fine. Like after that, losing her dad, she hasn't lost her dad. And [00:37:00] it's, it's very. healing, you know, for people to have this. And so, yeah, I think, I think you're going to hear more of it as people start to come, come forward and say, yummy too. I, I had that, I had that happen to me.

Will: Now, you've got the Supernatural Academy, which you train people how to connect with their loved ones across the veil and have these relationships with them and things like that. Um, is it strictly for romantic relationships or can you,

Pamela: Anybody can join. I have actually people, I would say 10 percent maybe of people in my academy are spiritual seekers, because I've been, I've been in this business for 37 years and I had, I teach Reiki, I've taught psychic development. So I have, A lot of clients, students, so Allen did too. So I have several people in our Academy who still have loved ones who are still here.

A partner is still here. So they're, they just want to evolve. They grow spiritually. [00:38:00] And some of them even tell me, I'm so happy I'm in this Academy because If my husband or wife dies, I'll be good to go. Like I'll know how to connect. Like I'm not, I'm not afraid of death. You know, I had several people tell me that.

So it's, it's really for anyone who's interested in, in really spiritually evolving, you know, because this is what I'm actually teaching. It's not just psychic development. They have to, I'm helping them let go of their limiting beliefs. So I do healing, healings in the, in the sessions too, to help people with physical and issues as well as, um, spiritual, because my interest has always been in healing as well as, you know, spiritual development.

Will: earlier on you mentioned the book that you wrote, um, you said you wrote it along with Alan and you called it Supernatural Love, a true story of life and love after death. A very intriguing title. That's really amazing. So you mentioned that Alan wrote it with you. And then you also [00:39:00] said in our pre interview communications that Alan and you, uh, work to train people how to do these things, Alan on one side, you on the other, does that mean that he, on the other side helps others that have passed connect with the physical ones that are here?

Pamela: Yes. We've actually had two students who went to mediums who were told by the medium, Oh, I see that you're in a class, but you know what? So is your husband at the same time. What's the kind of like, what's with that? And so they've got confirmation that their loved ones are meeting in the spirit world at the same time with Alan, you know, and, and learning.

You're like alongside of us at least that's that's what he says.

Karen & Will: That is so cool.

Pamela: I know that he told me this when he first came back to me says I'm going to help Spirits on the other side come through the veil because they need help. And I said, really? I had, I didn't know that I thought he was making it up because no, and he led me to a book.

[00:40:00] And unfortunately I can't remember the book. I, and a look book that I had and I, I looked on a page and this medium was saying, yes, there's spirits on the other side who help other spirits learn how to project themselves through the veil because a lot of them don't know how to do that, but they want to learn.

Right. And he's, so he says, see, I told you, you know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not

Will: I, I can't wait to watch the TV show.

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: I know, you

Will: know, someone's writing it up right now. That's incredible. That's, that was, we could call it a supernatural ghost training school or something like that. That's really,

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: that's a terrible title though. Well, it's a working title.

Will: Okay. Give me

Pamela: Yeah, working, working title, working title. maybe a, maybe a bad working title, but it's still a working title, right?

Will: How about the supernatural love Academy?

Pamela: Well, yeah, well, uh,

Will: sorry.

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: That love has no

Pamela: very original.

Will: Right, right. I think I might have heard that before somewhere. All right. So, um, this is, this is amazing. Uh, and something I [00:41:00] hope that more and more people hear about because love doesn't have to end with death. And that's a, that's the underlying story here that, that people aren't really paying attention.

Karen and I talk about it all the time about, you know, life after life, we'll find each other. Well, we never have to lose each other, Karen. We're gonna be connected forever.

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: Well, maybe we haven't

Pamela: You can't lose each other. That's the thing that we're trying to get across. You can't lose anyone because the connections you have, the love you share, that's eternal. You know, those bonds are never severed. And I really think what's happening is result of humanity's consciousness is rising, although you might think it's all going, you know, to hell, right?

Like, but, but really what's happening is we're rising up. And so, and so more people are becoming more sensitive and the other side is getting stronger. And so I think you're going to hear about more interaction. That's what Alan said, because the other side really wants to come through and they're concerned about.[00:42:00]

And the other side has always been involved in humankind's development. That's why people get inspired ideas and inventions, et cetera, right? It's not like we're so smart. Come on, we're not, you know,

Will: I mean

Pamela: just know what we already know. Right. The brain only regurgitates the inspired thought comes from the other side and the other side has always been downloading us with new insights when we're ready.

And certain people will take action and some won't. Right. So I think that's what we're seeing playing out. And I predict in about a year that you're going to hear more of this and People will speak up, and I hope so because it will alleviate a lot of grief for people and, you know, and, and help them grow spiritually because our loved ones want to help us become all that we are, because they are now all that they really are.

And so they say, you know, the ultimate thing is to be who you really are while you're still in the [00:43:00] body and not have to wait to die to wake up. Ha ha

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: also will now, you know, you can run but you can't

Will: Well, it's something just occurred to me someone like Liz Taylor who had like 17 husbands and they like Are, are, are they, are they like a supernatural love

Pamela: knows? She might have, I know she could have a harem over there,

Will: Right. It

Pamela_Johnson-Karen_Endsley-webcam-00h_00m_00s_156ms-StreamYard: does not sound so bad. I mean, you know,

Will: that sends polyamory into a whole new level.

That's amazing. Well, Pam, if someone wanted to reach out or become part of the academy or join your Facebook group, or wanted to know more about all of this, what's the best way for someone to reach out to you?

Pamela: Okay. Well, you know, they can always go to our website, supernaturallove. com, you know, easy to remember, Supernatural Love with two L's. But what I really would like people to do is come look us up on YouTube because we are teaching live on YouTube now every Saturday. [00:44:00] And our, our channel is Supernatural Love with Pam and Ellen Johnson .

And my YouTube handle is at. Pamela Johnson. So you have no excuse not to find us. And we decided since nobody's talking about this, right, that we're going to take it to the world and get on YouTube. So we just started our first live stream this past Saturday. I, I was, Teaching live in my group. But again, it's for partners and spouses, right?

So it's not for everybody. It's private. And Alan said, you got to start talking to the world because nobody's hearing about this, you know, so I said, all right, I'm ready. Gulp, you know, and so I'm, we're taking it to YouTube and we did it last week, had a blast. You know, we had a lot of our members there in the chat and they were loving it and you know, And so they'd say, I'm going to go back and watch this video over and over because I'd led them through how to simple steps to do communication.

I do a lot of, I'm into practical how to things and, and that's what we do, you know, on our [00:45:00] channel. And I do meditations and everything. So if, but if they want to go deeper, more support and really interact with me because I'll interact with them. We'll do like mini readings with people, coaching, you know, with people that's in our academy.

So the academy, you can find it on our website, but if you want to just experience what we do, get a taste of it, go to my, our YouTube channel and, um, that would

Will: That sounds we're going to add direct links to your YouTube channel, to your website, to all that stuff directly on our show notes. So if you want to go to skeptic, metaphysician. com, go to Pam's episode page, you're going to see all those links laid in there directly. So it's easy for you to find them one stop shop.

Pam, this has been fascinating. It has been an absolute pleasure. You are a love. You are a joy to be surrounded with, and it's got to be the love that you have with Alan, that's kind of shining through.

So my hat is off to you. Thank you for helping to share this message, which is so important because this could truly [00:46:00] revolutionize how we see love and, and, uh, life after love.

Pamela: I, I hope so. My, my husband said he wanted to prove that we're immortal. That that was his small little goal, right? I just want to prove to the world that we're really immortal.

Will: No. Yeah. That's a right. Just, just one day's work that it's easy. All right. Well, we, we hope that we've done just a one step closer to make that goal happen for Alan. So once again, thank you so much for coming on. Uh, please give Alan our best and we hope we see you again soon.

And a huge thank you to you. We know that there are tons of options out there and having you decide to come along on our journey of discovery with us is an absolute honor for us. If you know someone who would benefit from hearing the message we're sharing on the show, do them and us a favor and share the show with them.

It will help get the word out about us and it might just change someone's life for the better. Well, that's all for now, but we'll see you on the next episode of The Skeptic Metaphysicians. Until then, take [00:47:00] care.