Expanded States of Consciousness: Sacred Acoustics with Dr. Eben Alexander & Karen Newell

Will: Welcome back to the Skeptic Minute Physicians. I'm Will and I'm Karen. And today we have a returning guest, someone that we love. We love their conversation last time. So we are sure a hundred percent sure that you're going to enjoy this conversation because it piggybacks off of that last conversation.

It's Dr. Evan Alexander, one of our favorites. Now, just to give you a recap. Of what his story is about. He's academic neurosurgeon for over 25 years. In [00:01:00] 2008, he experienced a transcendental near death experience during a weeklong coma from an ex inexplicable brain infection that completely transformed his worldview.

He's the author of The New York Times Number one Bestseller, proof of Heaven, the Map of Heaven, and Living, and also Living in a Mindful Universe with Karen Newell, who's also with us today. Karen is an author and a specialist in personal development with a diverse body of work that rests upon the foundation of heart centered consciousness as an innovator in the emerging field of brainwave and trainment, audio meditation.

Say that five times fast, Karen Newell empowers others in their journeys of self discovery by demonstrating how to connect to inner guidance, achieve inspiration, improve wellness, and. Develop intuition. We have a lot to talk about. Ms. Newell, she's the co founder of Sacred Acoustics and the co author of, Living in a Mindful Universe with Dr.

Alexander. I want to extend a very [00:02:00] welcome to both of you. Thank you for being on the Skeptic Meditations today.

Dr.Alexander: Well, so great to be here. Thanks so much for having

Karen Newell: us on. Yes, this is going to be fun. I can tell already.

Will: Oh yeah. Yeah. We, we definitely, uh, want to focus on the fun, but This is very serious information we got to get out. So we got to temper the fun and focus informational entertainment. It was, they call it infotainment. There we go. All right. So, just to give a recap, Dr. Alexander, uh, your near death experience was when I read the book, I was.

Entranced. I'd never heard of a near death experience quite like yours. for the, for those that may not have Listen to the interview before. And if you haven't, I strongly urge you to go back into our archives and find that interview with Dr. Alexander, because it was absolutely fascinating. But can you give us a quick recap of what your experience was?

Hmm.

Dr.Alexander: you know, I was 54 years old. I thought I understood brain [00:03:00] mind consciousness. I taught 15 years at Harvard Medical School, taught neurosurgery, and that's why I was in for such a shock because this is completely unexpected. If you have been brought up in the conventional materialist position, thinking brain creates consciousness, because in fact what you find out is when your brain and body die, your consciousness is greatly liberated to a much higher, more active state.

So the exact opposite of what I ever would have thought. Um, very briefly, I went through three realms of Earthworm's eye view, very primitive course on responsive realm, but then ascended through a light portal, uh, and a music portal up into this brilliant ultra real gateway valley. And from that point, another musical portal provided by the angelic choirs took me to the core realm, complete oneness with the divine.

Uh, I cycled through those realms multiple times. It was crystal clear, uh, that God force a pure love at the core of each and every one of our awareness.

Karen Newell: Um, and this of course is when your brain wasn't able to produce it. When my brain Yeah. You didn't mention you had

Dr.Alexander: [00:04:00] meningitis. Yeah. I had a severe case of bacterial meningo encephalitis.

Basically rendered my brain inoperable for seven days. And it was during that period that I had this extraordinary set of visions. Uh, that really the medical facts of the case completely, uh, obliterate the chances that that brain could have harbored a dream or hallucination. That's why the scientific community takes my story so seriously.

Uh, but the reality is I've spent the 15 years since then working with scientists around the world, studying consciousness with other experiencers, and especially with my spiritual mentor and partner in all of this, Karen Newell, uh, coming to some deeper answers. And of course, that's what we, uh, put forward to the world in our book, Living in a Mindful Universe.

And that's what all of our work is about, is helping to change this world and point out that there is a revolution going on in science around the nature of reality. And that the old conventional materialism is dead, and [00:05:00] replacing it is a much richer form of understanding reality, where we're all united through one mind, uh, and it's a very rich, uh, That we're bringing to the world?

Will: right. So long time listeners know me and know my. Pragmatic approach to these topics and things like that. So long time listeners will also understand why I get so giddy when an academic neurosurgeon starts talking about angelic choirs. I mean, this is just not something you, you think about when you're in the pragmatic world, right?

When science has fought against the thought of consciousness existing beyond the brain, um, to have someone come in who is. Uh, near a surgeon who understands the brain so well and talk about the fact that yes, this is reality. That makes me very

Karen & Will: happy. So, and relieved. Yes. And

Karen Endsley: the one question I always like to ask people that have had a near death experience is now.

How do you feel about death?

Dr.Alexander: [00:06:00] It's, it's a liberation of conscious awareness to a much higher level. It's a reuniting with the, the mind of the universe and with our, uh, loved ones who have already departed the physical world. It's a joyous transition. Uh, I mean similar to birth in so many ways.

So it's just, uh, uh, a deeper understanding of this big picture can be very comforting.

Karen Endsley: I do like it's similar to birth. That's, that's like rebirth. That sounds so much better than death. Second birth. I'll take that.

Will: That's kind of what it is, right? You're, being reborn into who you really are. At least that's what we're, that's what the messaging that we're getting. now doc, a brief question, because I know we, I want to talk about secret acoustics here, but any chance that this is a passing.

Consciousness for a little while before your brain completely dies out or is this a not you feel it's an ongoing for good kind of experience

Dr.Alexander: Well, it's important to point out that there are shared death experiences, which are like near death, but happen in perfectly healthy people, but have all the same ingredients [00:07:00] of a near death experience, and especially important to point out, you know, as I realized after my journey, reincarnation was absolutely crystal clear, and yet I didn't know any scientific basis for reincarnation.

Uh, and then I started studying and found out that, in fact, at the University of Virginia, very close to where we live, uh, they've been working for six decades and more than, investigating more than 2, 700 cases of past life memories in children, of which 1, 700 of the cases were solved. That is, they actually found the person who lived before.

Now, children can talk about past lives, and most people don't do the research to try and find out if the words they're saying match a reality of somebody who lived before. And yet, when scientists do study this, and it's not just the UVA group, but Jim Matlock and Carol Bowman and other investigators, Uh, you find that there's A huge amount of evidence that, uh, children can have past life memories and then you extend that into the world of [00:08:00] transpersonal psychology and you realize all of us have had prior lifetimes that help to explain the events of this

Karen Newell: lifetime.

So that's how you're answering, yes, this doesn't just end after a time.

Dr.Alexander: Yeah, the reincarnation stuff is so powerful. And you have to fit that into some context, and the context we fit it into is near death experiences, shared death experiences, after death communications, the fact that the hospice literature perfectly aligns with this, with people who go on to die, they have the same experiences as NDEers.

So, uh, it's all about a bigger

Karen Newell: reality. Also, the data on the hospice study, Dr. Christopher Kerr out of Hospice Buffalo, he did all these studies and interviewed people who were actually dying, really the first study of its kind. And they all, uh, felt like they were, that they were going somewhere. They felt one of the themes of their end of life dreams and visions, as he called them, is that they were traveling and they had this anticipation of what was coming next and loved [00:09:00] ones would show up, but they wouldn't necessarily tell them where they were going.

They knew it wasn't the end, and that's what people realize when you go through this natural, uh, not sudden or violent death, but a natural death due to disease or something in, in hospice, that the process begins, uh, the life review begins, you start, you know, going back into your past and figuring out how you could have done things better.

This is what near death experiencers tell us, and this is what actual death looks like. Experiencers tell us. What I love the most about this data for, especially for those skeptics, is that near death experiencers, including Evan, talk about how what they encounter is more real than this world. Somehow more real than real, they say.

And these folks who are having the end of life dreams and visions, who are actually dying, They say the same thing. They say it's different than normal reality. This, you know, when they're asleep, they call it a dream. When they're awake, they call it a vision, but it's all the same. It's the hypnagogic [00:10:00] state, the state between awake and asleep, which leads us nicely when you're ready into sacred acoustics, because our recordings are designed to help people get into that hypnagogic state.

And that's what we naturally enter every day as we're falling asleep. Most intensely when we're going through that natural process of dying. So it really confirms for me very clearly that what near death experiencers describe is also what actual death experiencers describe. So I'm pretty confident even having not had a near death experience that we will not be ending our awareness when our physical body dies.

And that's something that's very useful to at least be aware of if not fully prepare for. So that's, uh. I think what happens when we die helps us live our lives more fully. That's the most important message.

Will: yeah, it, it helps us, period. Because , it helps me because my entire life, my biggest fear has been death. I've been deathly [00:11:00] afraid of death, pardon the pun. Uh, and, and knowing hearing stories like yours, Dr. Alexander, and, um, all the other people that we've spoken to about this, it provides a, a great sense of comfort that.

Yes, there is something else beyond this and we don't have to fear death and you're connecting the dots now Between what happens when you die and of course reincarnation has it has to follow a suit So you're there for a certain period of time before you move on to the next life. So that makes perfect sense I just wish we didn't have to forget

Dr.Alexander: Most people don't have memories of past lives, just kind of walking through our life and our culture. And yet it's because, as the doctors who've investigated these children will tell you, those memories start to fade at age six or seven. And often by teenage years, they don't

Karen Newell: remember any of it.

But just imagine if you did remember. What if you remembered all your big, happy life events? It would be like opening all your presents before your birthday, right? And if you knew all of the bad sort of challenges that were [00:12:00] coming up, uh, I think you might run away or, you know, self sabotage what, what those, uh, important hardships might teach you, right?

That are hard to go through. You think, why would I want to do this? But you come out the other side. Really transformed. Uh, I'll give an example of a, this has been on the news lately, a CNN anchor who just got diagnosed with stage three breast cancer. And what she says is that this is a beautiful gift.

Because it teaches her how much she is in love with this life. She's not ready to die. She has young children. And so this diagnosis of a terminal disease has enlivened her life. It's made her realize, oh my gosh, I gotta make the most of everything. So, imagine how if we all realized that without getting such a diagnosis.

Right? That we could really start enlivening our lives and forget about that fear of death. It's more about let's make the most of this life before we have to get out of here.

Will: [00:13:00] yeah, yeah, that's a fair point. If I knew that I was going to continue, I probably would live my life a little bit differently. So you're right. Yes. I, yeah, I just, I just, I just want to, I'm a control freak and I need to know. I need to

Karen Endsley: know. I think, well, for you, if you remembered all your past lives. You know, and there was like a really good one.

I think you'd be so disappointed now. You'd want to go back and that would just cause you more strife. So for you, I think it's better to not remember. That's

Will: true. That time when I was the King, when the life was good,

Karen & Will: it

Karen Newell: with the good old days, yeah?

Will: right. Well, then let's go ahead and transition to the secret acoustics because it does have a very close tie to this.

Uh, I, like I mentioned, I have been using them for a while and I love them. And in fact, there was a period of time where I was having a very difficult time getting to alpha, getting down even further. I mean, theta is where I want to get to and so infrequently get to. And yet when I started using secret acoustics, I remember the first time I took my headsets off and I looked over at Karen.

[00:14:00] And I said, my God, finally, I got back. I got back to theater. So secret acoustics, let's talk about the origins and the benefits from them first.

Karen Newell: Well, the origin comes from, uh, my own personal practice of exploring ways to enhance meditation, because I could not meditate. I, I didn't use language like get into theta, but when I would try to meditate, I learned all about the benefits intellectually. But when I tried. I couldn't do it. I just, my mind was just having all these thoughts as a busy project manager.

You know, I was planning, uh, reviewing, I couldn't quiet the mind. And so just through trial and error and trying lots of things, I found these particular types of sound would help me quiet the mind. And at first it was things like, uh, gongs, uh, crystal bowls, brass bowls. Anything that kind of makes that steady, wah, wah, wah sound, sometimes it seems to capture your attention.

And so when I would [00:15:00] listen to these, uh, it would really be helpful. And I learned about binaural beat audio recordings, which as it happens, these types of instruments, gongs and crystal bowls, they're emitting binaural beats. So anything that's making that wah, wah, wah sound, that's a binaural beat. And so a binaural beat is when you put one frequency in one ear, a slightly different frequency in the other ear, and that's what creates that sort of monotonous, steady sound.

And uh, doing this helps to bring your brain from the busy beta state Which is measured, um, through electric signals coming out of the brain. Uh, 32, what is it? 12 to 30 hertz is the beta state. Under 12 hertz, that's what we're really interested in getting to. So 7 to 12 hertz is the alpha state you mentioned.

Associated with focus, concentration. Below that four to seven hertz is the theta state. That's that hypnagogic state. That's the state between awake and asleep because delta, [00:16:00] which is the sleep state, that's zero to four hertz. So many of our sacred acoustics recordings really focus on that space between delta and theta right around four hertz.

And when you are fed those kinds of signals to the brain, One of your first instincts, really, or first, uh, kind of influences is to fall asleep. But what you want to do is allow the body to be profoundly relaxed. Well, the mind is still awake and alert. And if you're familiar when you're falling asleep at night, maybe when you're first waking up in the morning, we're familiar with that, where we might still be having some dream fragments and these types of recordings can help people focus, help people sleep, but they can also help people get into very deep states, have dreamlike sort of events start to happen.

And you can even start to interact. With, uh, the experiences that you're having, and so we feel that it's a gateway to these spiritual realms, and all of us [00:17:00] will have different experiences, just like with near death experiences, because we're all unique, and so the recordings won't work the same way on everyone, but there's a wide range of, uh, Ways that people relax most commonly, uh, or respond most commonly with relaxation and a quieting of the mind.

That others might feel vibrations in the body, they might have a sense of, uh, lights and color that show up. Lots and lots of opportunity there.

Karen Endsley: Right. And do you find that these types of meditations work better for everyone? Because I know like, for example, Will sometimes he'll do the guided meditations where people are talking. And for me, I'm just like, stop talking. Cause I'm just listening to them talking and I can't, you know, I can't not listen to them talking.

So something like that I think would be great for me, but I don't know if, if, is it like, does it work pretty much for everybody?

Karen & Will: They have both versions.

Karen Newell: Well, it works differently for everybody, and we do as, yeah, we have both guided and unguided versions. [00:18:00] So, any recording we create that has guidance, we know that those words get in the way after a time, but especially for beginners, they can be very useful as you're kind of learning how to interact in these ways.

But, yeah, guidance. Non guidance. This is one of the differences between people. And so we try to anticipate those differences. And, uh, we, we do encourage people to at least to listen at least once to the verbally guided version, because then you'll get an idea really of what we intended these tones to support.

But really the sky's the limit with someone who already knows how to kind of use intention and, and find their way through these spaces. Some people will. Find it to be much more easy than others. And, uh, so for those folks, yeah, the unguided versions are going to do, do the trick.

Will: Yeah, and and they have different versions for different things like they have the light body meditation They have the heart center minute a to have lots of different options for those are looking specifically for [00:19:00] certain things Let's talk about the variety of audio recordings that you have, and they're all set to music and they're all have both guided and non guided versions. my favorite is the free one that you have on the site. The Ohm. It is, it is, I mean, it is a perfect gateway, uh, audio into the sacred acoustics because it sets you up perfectly for what's coming.

And that, Oh, when that Ohm comes in, Oh, right. It makes me feel like what you Dr. Alexander. Must have experienced in your near death experience because it feels like this majestic kind of whoa It just transports you into another world. So what's the science by we? Understand the binaural beats in the world where the sound waves and things like that But what made you craft these audio files exactly like this when this type of journey?

Karen Newell: Well, interestingly, uh, my business partner in sacred acoustics is Kevin Cossey and Kevin and I had been creating these recordings kind of on our own, just for our [00:20:00] own personal exploration, really. And then we met Evan and he wanted us to, after listening to them, he was the third person who had listened to these recordings besides the two of us.

He wanted to make them available to others. Now, Kevin and I had already created this alm sound. Alm is something that's used very frequently in meditation to really help people get to that now moment, the here, the now, so that you can, you know, Escape from all of your worries, concerns, and distractions.

And, uh, so we thought, let's do that. And vocalizing the um, I don't know if you're doing that when you listen, but when you also add your own um, you're bringing a level of vibration to the music that really helps your system to interact with the tones even more. So I would suggest that. It's not required.

But when we met Evan, uh, he We learned that he encountered this divine, um, force, uh, for [00:21:00] lack of the word, God not being good enough. He used the word, um, because in the core realm, that's what he heard. And so we, Kevin and I took that opportunity to refine our own recording, to get it as close as we possibly could to what Eben heard, which turned out to be.

Rather impossible because

Dr.Alexander: Oh, those are ideal sounds coming from an ideal realm and there's no way that the Kind of limitations of four dimensional space time and physics in this realm would allow for all and the human ear But one can get to those kind of idealized forms of the sound by using Binaural beats to liberate conscious awareness That's the that's the real power here and it's all always about putting that little voice in your head You know so many people identify with the voice in their head.

I love how Michael singer In his book, The Untethered Soul, calls out the annoying roommate, because that little voice in your head is not your ally in coming to any deeper understanding of [00:22:00] your relationship with the universe. And it's really by putting that voice into time out and becoming more aware and cultivating your sense of awareness of this inner observer that turns out to be parallel with the mind of the universe.

That's where we start to really understanding this deep

Karen Newell: connection. So it's funny, the OM recording that you really identified with, lots of people will say that, Oh, I felt like I was home. Sometimes they'll say, or they say, Oh, just like you. That's my favorite. It sent me into this beautiful space. Uh, you know, unlike any meditation I've ever had, we'll hear that sometimes.

And then there's the other side. Uh, where the um is rather spooky to them, and they hear this, um, and they go, oh no,

Karen & Will: And they're like, oh,

Karen Newell: Yeah, they want the tinkly bells and the angel sounds, and so there really is a wide range of responses, but I love that you found that to be your favorite, because that's many people's favorites, and many, not all, but many of our other recordings.

[00:23:00] begin with those ohm frequencies, simply because they do for so many create this beautiful foundation for going even deeper or sometimes now ohm, the ohm frequencies contain somewhere around like 3. 75 hertz, so the very high delta, not quite to theta. And then once you get into that deeper space.

Sometimes we'll feed in some higher frequencies, like maybe a little seven hertz or nine hertz to kind of to keep you relaxed, but kind of wake up your mind a little bit to give you some stimuli. So light body you mentioned is a combination of all these frequencies. So that is quite a trip. And we often recommend that one more for advanced listeners.

But anyone can listen. There's no restrictions where I often recommend people to start is with that own recording and also the whole mind bundle, uh, because the whole mind bundle includes recordings in Delta, Theta, and Alpha. And so [00:24:00] you can see how you respond to. Only Delta frequencies, only Theta frequencies, as many of our other recordings mix them up.

This is just another way for people to find, how do I respond? What is it like to listen to just Theta tones? And so the Whole Mind Bundle was actually used in a pilot study that showed a 26 percent reduction in anxiety in psychiatric patients in Manhattan. And so those patients who weren't listening to music over the same time period had a 7 percent reduction in anxiety.

So it was really quite remarkable when, uh, these patients were given tools. To bring into their lives and they were allowed to listen at any time they wanted that was convenient for them. And that's what the whole mind bundle recordings are, is that same set of recordings used in that study. And it includes, yeah, the same listening protocols, same kind of guidance on what to

Dr.Alexander: that study is a peer reviewed, uh, paper published in the Journal of Nervous and Mental Diseases by Dr. Anna Yusum in February [00:25:00] of 2020. For anyone who's interested.

Will: that's really great to know because that's the one thing. There's so many different recordings. How do you, where do you start? How do you, what's it? You know, so I just kind of picked some that that seemed interesting to me because I heard to the grapevine that light body might help you go on a travel on a journey.

And that's the one thing that's been missing in my life. But this again,

Karen Newell: Yeah,

Will: Yeah, astral travel has been my thing, but I've never been able to achieve it. And when it happens, you're going to freak out. I know. And you know what? It probably has happened. And now we're like, Oh my God. Nope. I'm back.

Karen Newell: that's exactly what people say, especially those who are really anxious and really enthusiastic about wanting to have one. That enthusiasm seems to get in the way. And then when you finally do have a little flicker, you finally relax and you ever flicker, you're like, Oh my God, just like you said, and then you're right back in your body.

Karen & Will: Yes.

Karen Newell: yeah,

Will: It's so frustrating.

Karen Newell: is frustrating, but you got to keep, uh, it's the practice. It's the regular practice. [00:26:00] The daily, the nightly practice, you know, set aside several weeks of just, you know, this is what I'm going to do every night. And, uh, if you haven't already done that, you might see some results over time, but the mental techniques are important.

That's why in light body, you know, we have all those frequencies, layers of frequencies going in and out, but we also include verbal guidance. That, uh, has you visualize your body's energy leaving out the top of your head to infinity at the bottom of your feet to infinity and then spinning around your body the speed of light.

Yeah, and you just kind of imagine all this energy moving, but the classic kind of out of body script is to imagine that you're walking upstairs or going up an elevator, going downstairs, going down an elevator. You can also imagine that you're rolling like a log, you know, out of your body like that. Any of those kind of visualizations combined with getting into that hypnagogic [00:27:00] state.

That's why first thing in the morning or right when you're falling asleep is a good time to practice. And if you wake up in the middle of the night, beautiful time to practice, put on that light body recording and see what you can do.

Will: well, that, that's really interesting because I, I meditate in the morning, but it's not first thing in the morning, right? I go out to take a shower to have my cup of coffee and then I sit down and meditate because I'm awake then and I'll make sure I won't fall asleep. But, uh, every time I've tried meditating immediately upon waking up, I'm immediately back to sleep like in a second.

So it's hard for me. So would you recommend.

Karen Newell: you're doing the right thing and those who naturally fall asleep. You're doing the right thing You want to be fully awake, but at some point you will get to the place Where you can maintain that relaxed body and still be awake. And it can take a couple years of practice. Because most people don't practice every single day, right?

You probably get into it for a while and then you get out of it again. Well, Eben does practice every single day.

Dr.Alexander: I find it [00:28:00] incredibly powerful stuff. So I use Sacred Acoustics an hour or two

Karen Newell: every day. But most people don't, I know when I was practicing out of body techniques, I would get really into it for a while and then I would stop, you know, get back to my life.

So, uh, but if you keep at it, you'll get there. That practice, people have to practice football, baseball, uh, musical instruments. It's the same thing.

Will: Right. Right. Yeah. So do you recommend people use it at night before, as they're going, as they're falling asleep? I've,

Karen Newell: well, lots of people do, uh, to help themselves sleep. So the Delta recording will, uh, you know, insomnia is, uh, runs rampant in this world. And so for some, we have a sacred sleep recording. You have sacred siesta, which you can use for naps because it has little wake up tones in it. Uh, so that you don't stay asleep.

Uh, the whole Delta can be used for sleep, but some people, when they listen before they go to bed, it's just the only time of day they can work in, but they will find that, uh, it [00:29:00] enhances their dream space. And if you're listening to light body as you fall asleep. Sometimes your first out of body experience can take place in what seems like a dream.

I know for me that's what was the case. I dreamed I was out of my body. I thought I was out of my body. And then I woke up in my dream and thought, Oh, you weren't in your body. And I laughed and laughed and fell out of bed. And then I really woke up.

Karen & Will: that's

Will: amazing.

Karen Newell: Yeah, so those kind of things can happen if you're listening to these kind of recordings at night or before you fall asleep, but trial and error, just give it a shot, see, see what happens for you, especially if you're not feeling like you're getting good results with the routine you're in now, change it up a little bit.

And, uh, Trial and error is the biggest really, uh, advice I can give anyone with any meditative techniques, because I know when I would go to a meditation class, they would say, do this, this, and this. And it was strict. It was very strict. [00:30:00] Hold your hands like this, breathe like this, sit like this. And it, trying to follow all those rules was really frustrating, but I found, oh, if I just didn't hold my back straight and just relaxed a little bit.

Oh, now I can get there. So I learned over time that, uh, modify, modify the instructions to, you know, make them work for you. We're all so unique. One technique is not one size fits all by any means.

Will: Right. So, but you, because of binaural beats and you have to have the frequencies in different ears, you, you really need to have headphones on my, that's, that's my, my biggest challenge is as I'm falling asleep, I've got not these, but I've got my Apple iPod, AirPods or whatever you want to call them.

They're still pretty bulky. So when I turn over on my side, when I'm a side sleeper, it wakes me up.

So I need to find

Karen Newell: you can't, but, but there's, there's ways around that. And one of those is a product called Sleep Phones. And what those are is a fleece band or some kind of fabric around your head, and they have the little pods in the fleece [00:31:00] band. So you can kind of move it around so that they're right over your ears and get them in right, the right place.

But you can flip around in bed, and now they even have wireless ones. It used, it used to be they were wired, and so you'd get tangled in the cord, and

Karen & Will: Oh,

Will: it sounds like a sleep apnea machine.

Karen & Will: Yeah. Yeah.

Karen Newell: uh, when you get the wireless, uh, sleep phones, you combat that problem. So many, many ways around these kinds of, uh, troublesome issues.

Yeah. Headphones, hard to sleep on

Karen & Will: Yeah. Yeah,

Karen Newell: but headphones are very important because you're getting. The left and right signal, and that's what creates a binaural beat, is when you have two signals delivered in the ear. Now, there's also people who have hearing loss who will say, Well, I have, I'm deaf in one ear, or I have, you know, certain hearing loss in one ear, or both ears.

And for that, we recommend this newest kind of headphone, these bone conduction headphones, that often runners will use. Uh, because somehow they're more [00:32:00] comfortable than having them in your ear. They rest just behind your ears on the bones and the vibrations are sent through the bones. So it completely bypasses the inner ear cochlea that is damaged in someone who has hearing loss.

So lots and lots of ways to listen.

Will: Man, have we done this interview right before Christmas? I know I would have been on my Christmas wish

Karen Newell: Yeah.

Will: Yeah. So maybe, uh,

Karen & Will: Valentine's day is coming

Will: up.

Karen Newell: There you go. Exchange gifts. Yeah. Make up a holiday. Yeah.

Will: Uh, it's will gets headsets

Karen & Will: day.

Karen Newell: There you go.

Will: All right. Now I do want to talk about the book living in a mindful universe, but before we do that, one last question about the, uh, sacred acoustics, because, uh, it's a thing that's held me back from listening to it as much as I would like to. The each one so far that I've found, they're all 39 minutes long.

And sometimes in a really big, we work full time and I've got to be in the office or whatever. Do, do they [00:33:00] have, do you have to listen to the full 39 minutes? Is there any, uh, talk of possibly making a shorter, maybe 20 minute version of them? Or is there a method to this madness?

Karen Newell: we do have 20 minute versions just to get that out of the way. If

Will: I could not find

Karen Newell: mind bundle, in the whole mind bundle, there's guided and unguided 20 minute versions of Delta, Theta, and Alpha and heart presence. Transcendental meditation is also a recording. That's all alpha, different levels of alpha.

So that's a different kind of experience, but all 20 minutes and the free download, the um, recording 20 minutes, we know it's hard to work in 40 minutes a day, but when we first created this recordings, transcendental meditation, Was fully out there and 20 minutes was their recommendation. 20 minutes a day or 20 minutes twice a day.

But for us, a 20 minute recording, it didn't take us deep enough to have enough time in those deeper states. And so we came up with 40 minutes. Uh, the reason we came up with 40 minutes is you [00:34:00] can fit, well, 39 minutes, is you can fit two 39 minute recordings on a CD. So, that's why we came up with 39 minutes, because you can fit 78 minutes onto a CD, so we got the longest recording you could have, and then we got started getting requests from people, uh, About the 20 minutes.

I don't have enough time. Some people like who use apps like headspace or Calm, they have five minute meditations and they're like, I just only have five minutes and i'm like, okay Well, you can get relaxed for five minutes, but you're not gonna go to those deeper spaces And that's what sacred acoustics was developed for and so we don't want to shortchange anybody But you can listen for five minutes if you like some of the recordings can be listened to for any length of time Things like light body, if you stop in the middle, you're going to be in a very, very kind of deepest space of the recording.

And so that might not be the best place to stop. You can, if you're experienced [00:35:00] and you do some grounding techniques to sort of get your mind back to where you can function in your daily life. That's important. Uh, but yeah, that's all the considerations of timing.

Will: All right. That explains a lot.

Karen Newell: Yeah. Yeah. And even recreate, we've even created some hour long versions or 70 minute versions 'cause we just wanna go longer.

E wants, he'll do it for two a half hours, so he'll string them, he'll string them all together in playlists in our app for iPhone.

Dr.Alexander: iPhone in the app. It works extremely well. You can customize and, and build these things together. And he real, he could, he could come up with an eight hour track if

Karen Newell: you wanted to.

So, yeah. And people do that for sleep. Sometimes they'll listen to Delta all night long, but he'll set up like. A 20 minute alm and then light body. And then maybe lunar

Dr.Alexander: cycles coming out of that, you know, I'll blend them together, but there's a lot of power. Uh, if you explore the sacred acoustics website, she has a lot of information to help you select what files [00:36:00] you need for whatever you're trying to do.

Karen Newell: And also the contact form on sacred acoustics. com. It comes to me. So I answered. Pretty much all of those questions. Some of the technical ones I don't answer, but, uh, if anyone has questions like you've been asking me, I, I answer, I answer a lot of questions.

Karen Endsley: That is

Karen & Will: fantastic. Great.

Karen Newell: Cause it's so helpful. It's a strange, uh, it's not a mainstream kind of habit, so it's not really known, you know, and it's not well known.

So people do have a lot of questions. I'm happy to answer.

Will: Which is why I was so anxious to get you on the show again.

Karen Endsley: Yeah, we need to get this well known. Especially if it helps so much with anxiety. I mean, why isn't every therapist using this?

Karen Newell: Lots of therapists are. They prescribe these to their patients, the patients come and get them, and that whole mind bundle, just so people know, when, when that, uh, Peer reviewed case study came out, pilot study came out, that was February 2020, if everyone recalls, right before the shutdown [00:37:00] started happening.

Will: yeah.

Karen Newell: Anxiety skyrocketed around the world, so we made those recordings available for free, and they still are for free. If at people's choice, you have an option to pay 19, a very reduced price, or you can get them for free. And anyone who does this has my gratitude for taking the time to, you know, attempt to reduce that anxiety.

Because when one person reduces their anxiety, you're helping all of us. And that is something, that is why I made them available.

Will: absolutely. That's incredible service. I know these are not easy to put together. I'm sure they take a lot of time and effort. So thank you for providing that as a service to people. That's it's a huge, it absolutely huge.

Karen Endsley: a while back

I was thinking about how for me the danger would be those long, because once I get into that state, I don't want to get out. You know, and it's like, I would never get anything done. Yes.

Like if I put the thing on the playlist, forget it. I'm out.

Karen & Will: You know, so.

Karen Newell: natural kind of ability to get [00:38:00] quiet and, yeah,

Karen Endsley: funny because it was really hard for me. I was horrible. Oh, horrible. And Will was like meditating every day. I'm like, Nope. I tried for five minutes. I suck. And I'd stop. And then one day it just clicked. And ever since then, it's, it's like a, it's easier for

Will: me, I think, than him. now we call her a bliss bunny.

Karen Newell: isn't it funny how we're all so different, you know? Like Evan has this beautiful reference point of his near death experience. He can just imagine what it was like to be there. And voila, he can kind of return in a sense, not the same hyper reality, but others of us, we don't have those reference points.

So you have to create them. And, uh, for some, it comes easier than others.

Will: Right. Right. Okay. Well, let's turn our attention to, to the book now because, is a wonderful, addition and I say addition because your first book, Dr. Alexander, Proof of Heaven was my entry, my gateway to you, uh, when I read that book, I, I immediately reached out to you to see, Hey, by chance, would you like to come on?

Because it was such a earth shattering view kind [00:39:00] of, uh, experience for me. So now you and Karen have co authored, uh, Living in a Mindful Universe and I want to dive deeper into it because then you take what your experience was in that book and you expand it with the help of Karen into the consciousness and, and where it resides and all that kind of stuff.

So for those of us who are listening right now, who haven't. Picked up the book and you should but who haven't give us The thumbnail review about what the the book is about

Dr.Alexander: Well, basically I, I'll just, um, start by saying that some of the leading, uh, experts in the world and the scientific world of consciousness studies have endorsed this book. So Bernardo Kastrup, Ed Kelly, Bruce Grayson, Jim Tucker, uh, Dean Radin, uh, Larry Dossi. I mean, the list goes on and on of, uh, uh, respected scientific minds who like this book.

And in fact, Dr. Pim Van Lommel puts it as one of the. Four main resources for what's called the One Mind Hypothesis, which is really where the modern science of [00:40:00] consciousness is

Karen Newell: going. Chapter five, Primordial Mind

Dr.Alexander: Hypothesis. Exactly. Um, but the, basically it takes the 15 years of work I've done with Karen and with other experiencers and with other scientists around the world, uh, to come to a deeper understanding of this and really paints a picture of where the world is headed.

And where the world is headed is the opposite of the materialist pattern that we were all basically taught, our conventional cultural wisdom, or lack thereof, is materialism, which has really been eliminated in the modern scientific world as a result Of valid model of the true nature of reality. And the emerging models, as we point out in Living in a Mindful Universe, are much more based in consciousness itself.

That that is the thing that exists, and that in fact the entire physical universe is a projection out of consciousness. But it's, uh, A great rescue for humanity because that conventional materialist science that I worship [00:41:00] before my coma, and I do not use that term lightly, that would lead you to believe, that would scoff at you for claiming to have free will.

They completely dismiss consciousness as an epiphenomenon of chemical reactions and electron fluxes in the brain. And there's no way you could inject free will into that picture. Uh, and, and that's a big error. That is pointing us in the wrong direction. Uh, and in fact we do have free will, and it manifests in the scientific world as quantum indeterminacy.

As it's called, and if you chase that down the rabbit hole of quantum physics, especially witnessing in 2022 how the Nobel Prize committee had the wisdom to give the prize for entanglement. Well, entanglement is a giant step beyond, uh, the four dimensional space time and kind of local realism of, of the scientific world of Newton, uh, and of the 20th century.

But now we've moved beyond that. And that's where, um, uh, this has tremendous power, especially for people to come to realize that when you go [00:42:00] into your mind, you're not just going deeper into this, uh, you know, three and a half pound gelatinous mass sitting inside your skull. You're actually going out into the universe in grand measure.

And that's why things like telepathy, remote viewing, are very real phenomena of our ability to discern information beyond our normal sensory pathways. And it also has a lot to say when you see the brain as a filter or transceiver of consciousness. How these extraordinary stories of end to ease where your consciousness is actually liberated when your brain and body die, not constricted and pushed to zero as materialists would try and pretend.

But that's not the reality. And so, when you put all of these facts together, not just near death experiences, but shared death, which happen in perfectly healthy people, uh, all the information about non local consciousness, quantum physics, which has been screaming at us, the primacy of mind, for the better part of a century, but, uh, materialism was so deeply ingrained in our scientific circles that they couldn't hear the message of the empirical data [00:43:00] and rational argument.

Uh, to point out that we're actually all connected through mind and that we have shared meaning and purpose. And that's why this is such an important, uh, book for humanity because it really brings science and spirituality together in a way that allows individuals to use their meditation and centering prayer and modes of going within to enhance their lives tremendously and end up showing the binding force of love.

All of our actions being expressed through kindness, compassion, mercy, acceptance, when necessary, forgiveness. This is how the world can come out a much better place. And that's what we cover in Living in a Mindful Universe, with a lot of practical tools for the individual.

Karen & Will: And that marriage Is that all?

Karen Endsley: Yeah, yeah, right. Oh my gosh. Just listening to that description,

Will: wow! Right, that marriage of science and spirituality is exactly why I love the book so much because it speaks directly to me. And, uh, quantum entanglement was my jumping point, right? That was the [00:44:00] paradigm shifter for me.

Once quantum entanglement was confirmed, I was What? That's it. That's it. This is what I was looking for. This is the proof I needed. Now I can scientifically explain to myself how something like this could be possible because before then it was like, I can't, I can't see it. I don't, I don't see it. But now I do.

I mean, it's, there's so much more out there that we know. and I've often talked about the fact, Karen, if you remember that I always, I don't know, something in me thought, okay, That our brains was more of a safety feature for us, like we were so much grander that we could possibly, uh, comprehend or handle in this three dimensional space that our brains actually filters our grandness so we can actually deal otherwise.

Without it, we would be

Karen & Will: sitting in the corner rocking. Yeah, yeah,

Karen Endsley: no, that's great. And I just, I think it's, it's fantastic to take this. This is really intense and complex information when you get into the quantum realm, but also marrying that to just, [00:45:00] Humanity and life in general and putting it together in a way that people can access it and understand it like your everyday person can read this book, you know, you don't have to have a PhD to be able to read this book and get something out of it, which is

just

Dr.Alexander: that was

Karen Endsley: needed.

So thank

Dr.Alexander: That was Karen's work. Yeah,

Karen Endsley: Thank you. Karen.

Karen Newell: if I couldn't understand,

Karen & Will: your night now.

Karen Newell: yeah, if I couldn't understand what he was saying. Then he had to rewrite it. And, uh, and that's not easy with quantum physics, right? And I learned a lot. That's not a topic that ever interested me. Uh, and so I didn't know anything about it.

But I've learned quite a lot about it, uh, just from trying to Explain in layperson's terms, what the heck he is saying. And the book does that. It's not, it's more complex than proof of heaven. Certainly. Uh, we, we said it was for the 12th graders because the was a designed to be. Uh, read by eighth graders.

The

Dr.Alexander: publisher kept telling me that your average reader has an eighth grade education. So we started And they kept [00:46:00] stripping the science out of proof of evidence. So we put a lot of that

Karen Newell: back in. So we like to say we went for twelfth graders in the, uh, living room micro universe, but not the PhDs. So,

Karen & Will: Right.

Will: Perfect. Just for the record, the eighth graders could still get it because I got it.

Karen & Will: Yeah.

Karen Newell: these questions. And I'll also

Dr.Alexander: say that a lot of the Ph. D. 's love it too. Yeah, they do. So I graduated beyond this, I promise you. That's the good news.

Karen & Will: Right. That's awesome.

Will: That's perfect. Gosh. Uh, well, we're going to add direct links to the Sacred Acoustic website to, the place to buy the book. I know it's on Amazon. That's where I got it. we'll add all those links to our site, including Dr. Alexander, your information, Karen, uh, Newell, your information as well.

if there is a one last message you want to make sure there are audience truly understands before they move on to the next episode, what would that be?

Karen Newell: Well, I would just like to remind people that when we're talking about, you know, we're all [00:47:00] connected, and this quantum physics, and this, that, and the other, what really all of that means is, That it empowers us, what it tells us that our consciousness, our individual awareness is actually playing a role, interacting with all other individual minds in the world to actually create our unfolding reality.

So when we look around the world and we see what's going on. We have ourselves to think, okay, because the outer world is a reflection of our inner world. And that's why when each of us can go in and clear out those anxieties, how we can, you know, clear our emotions that haven't been properly processed or any feelings that we have that haven't been fully, you know, expressed and so on, you know, things we really want to say to our loved ones that we don't say.

And then we get to our deathbed and we're like, you know, have all these regrets, you know. It really, this kind of theory that Eben is talking about, it's very [00:48:00] empowering to us as individuals. It puts us directly in with the ability to manage our unfolding reality and the way to start finding out for yourself is to, uh, practice.

Practice going within. The more that you find that inner peace and alignment with that essence of who you are, you can call it a soul if you like, the more that you do that, the more you find your outer world seems to rearrange itself to match what's going on in your inner world. That's how we can all do, uh, little experiment in our own lives to see if what Eben's telling us is true.

And if you find that to be the case, yep, you're just like every one of us as a human. It's our birthright to understand this. Just wanted to make sure people knew that.

Karen Endsley: And unlike, you know, practicing piano every day for two hours, this practice feels

Karen & Will: good.

Karen Newell: Yeah! Usually.

Dr.Alexander: And this is really a revolution for all humans. That's, I think, the important message to your audience. Is this revolution has moved far enough [00:49:00] along, uh, that, um, you know, the scientific world is clearly shifting direction over this. And so, but people practicing meditation and starting to live a life.

Where they express love, kindness, compassion, mercy for self and others. This world will become a far better place as this message of oneness and connectedness works its way out to the world. Uh, we just put out a 10th anniversary edition of the book Proof of Heaven. Has 36 additional pages which cover a lot of what's happened, uh, since the original book came out.

But it's really all about this optimism of this, uh, paradigm shift in science of the oneness of mind and the primacy of consciousness that I think can cause, uh, is a great cause for optimism, uh, in our modern world where there's so much apparent conflict and friction and polarization, uh, ultimately that's all just a bunch of noise at the surface, uh, comes from, uh, fundamentalists who realize that they're, uh, Unproven world is now being threatened and discarded.[00:50:00]

Uh, there's a lot of turmoil on the surface, but the reality is, uh, deep down through meditation, center, and prayer, all of us can come to bring harmony and peace and, uh, uh, prosperity to the lives of everyone on this

Karen Newell: planet. There's no way out but through, we like to say. Not only for our own individual hardships, but our collective hardships.

So, we're gonna get there. We are breathing through this.

Will: I, there's, I could talk to you for days. Uh, and, and maybe, so it's just what happens. We're in Virginia as well. Right. I just spent some time in the Shenandoah mountains for a solitary retreat for a while. So I was close to you guys. Um, maybe some point we'll go get a cup of coffee

Karen Newell: Where are you?

Will: we're in, uh, in Norfolk, Virginia.

No. Yeah. Dr. Alexander, Karen Newell, thank you so much for taking the time and helping us to come to terms with the fact that we're so much more than just a three dimensional body that we inhabit. Uh, if anyone is interested in, uh, reaching out to Karen Newell or Dr. [00:51:00] Alexander, all of those links will be directly laid in the chat.

Our show notes. So go to skepticmaniposition. com. You'll find their episode there. Uh, and you'll find all their contact information very easily laid out so you can, uh, one click and you're connected. Once again, Dr. Alexander, Karen, thank you so much for being on the show with us today. It has been

Dr.Alexander: Thanks so much Will and Karen for having us on. This has been

Karen Newell: wonderful and very fun as it happens.

Karen & Will: Yay.

Will: Mission accomplished. Excellent. All right, guys. Thanks so much. We'll see you at

Dr.Alexander: all right, thank you

Will: We hope you've enjoyed this conversation as much as we have. If you did, and you feel called to give back, We invite you to visit our website at SkepticMetaphysician.com where you can donate to the show or subscribe as a member through our Buy Me a Coffee campaign. Your support will go a long way towards allowing Karen and I to bring you these wonderful conversations and teachings in more and more robust ways. Well, that's all for now, but we'll see you on the next episode of The Skeptic Metaphysicians. Until then, take care. [00:52:00]