The Porch Pittsburgh Is Live - All Star Break Time

00:00 SPEAKER_01 No, it's crazy, but I think maybe we should start now? No, I think you already did start, but you should have played the music. You tried to take us out. You're absolutely right. We see the broadcast is live.

00:14 Marc Oh, yeah. Stupid me. He's a dum-dum.

00:21 Chris I am a dum-dum. A ding-a-ling. I am a ding-a-ling. A doofus. A what? A doofus. I am a doofus. Welcome to the Sports Porch Pittsburgh. Thank you for listening. And thank you for watching on social media, on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, YouTube, all over the world. And of course, you can catch the podcast right after the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you get your frigging podcasts. And if you ever want to feel really, really good about yourself, you can visit us at theporcheslive.com. Theporcheslive.com. Theporcheslive.com. Yes, it's all one word, and it is that simple. So hey, listen, guys, thanks for being here. We really, really appreciate it. We're going to jump into this show tonight. We're going to have a good time. It's all-star break time, which means I get to take a little nap now. Finally, those West Coast trips were brutal. I want to remind you, theporcheslive.com is our website, and we have something exciting going on. Listen, you can be a part of the show. You call that number on the bottom of your screen, 412-805-7236. Technology is a wonderful thing. We'll get you on the show, because we want to know what you think. And we get a lot of questions about that tonight, I'm sure. So we want to know what you think. But I got a surprise for you guys. What?

01:51 SPEAKER_01 You notice the hat that I'm wearing here? I see it. It's a pirate's hat.

01:54 Chris Yeah, it's a peach. Yeah, it's a brand new pirate's cap. But I got a surprise for you. Hold on. I'm going to change.

02:01 SPEAKER_01 And this is why you guys should have come to the studio tonight. Oh, man. What are you doing? I'm afraid of what's going on underneath there. What's that say? What's that say? Technical director. Oh, my god.

02:18 Chris There it is, baby. I am your technical director.

02:21 Marc Let's say hello to Kenda, who has joined us this evening. Hi, Kenda. Hey, Kenda. Kenda, good night. Yes. Yes.

02:28 Chris Thank you for being here so much. And I want to remind everybody that the Buccos report, which has been a blast doing, is available after every pirate's game on the podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you podcast. And you can hear the sports porch every Sunday night. You can hear the sports porch every Sunday on American Busker iHeartRadio at 4 PM. And Hockey Jesus, obviously. And send us your calls. Dial it in. We got lines open tonight, 412-805-7236. Let us talk right now about the Buccos. Why don't we do that? Let's talk about the Buccos. Sure thing. 41 and 49 at the break. They squeaked out a win. It was a bullpen game. Leads me to believe that maybe every game should be a bullpen game for the pirates. But I want to know how you guys think about it. Again, 412-805-7236. But before I say anything about it, because I've been the one doing all the Buccos reports, and thanks to everybody that listens. There's a lot of people that actually do listen to it, believe it or not. I want to hear from Schwab first on what he thinks about the first half of the season for the pirates. And then we'll go down to the guy who swore off the pirates a couple years ago. 1993, actually. The Sid Breen debacle. I remember the date. Yeah. And I remember the date, too, actually. I don't remember the actual date. I just remember what it looked like. All right, Schwabber, what do you think? It was ugly. What's your grade on the pirates right now? My grade on the pirates? Or how do you think their first? I'm going to do a grade. I'm going to do a Buccos report podcast in probably about two or three days right after the All-Star break for the year. So what did their first half mean to you, if anything?

04:38 Marc It meant nothing. I mean, unfortunately, unfortunately, it's kind of a shame because they really got off to a great start. And there was some hope. There was some hope that maybe they weren't going to be as bad as everybody thought they were going to be. But it turns out that they are. Look, I mean, here's the thing. I mean, they're not god-awful. They're not in a 100-loss baseball team. I do actually think they've got a few young players that have some potential. So are they in the worst place they've been in the last 10 years? I'd say no. But there's also not a great plan towards success going forward either. So I sort of feel like their best chance to be successful is sort of like to repeat the early McCutcheon team, where a bunch of their draft picks turn out to be really good players, and they all kind of come up at the same time, and they play some great baseball together. But if that doesn't happen, I don't really see them being a contender for several years. And that's a big ask when you're basically

06:13 Chris putting it all on your draft. Yeah.

06:18 SPEAKER_01 Steve, you want to chime in here? Yeah, I mean, that's how the Pirates have to do it, though. They're not going to go out and spend $300 million on payroll. So the only way they can do it is through their draft. And they have proven in the past that they can get it done through the draft. And they did it with Garrett Cole. He was their ace. And this guy they just drafted yesterday could be their Garrett Cole. We'll get to that. He absolutely could be the guy. And if some of these hitters come around, I like the fact that they're bringing up Henry Davis this year and other young batters. I think this year is a loss. Let's just face it. Like, this year is a loss for the Pirates. But I agree with you, Mark. They came out of the gate so quick. I think it was unrealistic to think they could sustain that. But they got so bad after that, it was like the overreaction, I think, was too much. So really, all I'm really looking for the Pirates for the remainder of the year is to bring up the rest of their talent and see how it all works together towards the end of the year with only really having one true starter in the lineup, Mitch Keller. So if they can actually play 500 ball with only one true starter, they get this new pitcher into the mix next year. And now they got two really quality starters. I think that's going to make a big difference for next year. And honestly, this may be the first time I can say this as a real Pirates fan that the fact that they did draft somebody of such high caliber in that first position was a surprise to me, honestly, because I thought they would just go for the high school kid. And because they didn't, I'm thinking that maybe they recognize they need to get better sooner than not later, which means I agree with you, not this year, probably not next year either. Although next year, I'm looking for more consistency in the team. But I think two years from now is the team that really is something to get excited about for maybe the first time since they blew it when they had that 100 win team. So that's the way I'm thinking about this Pirate team. Unfortunately, I wish I was thinking a little bit more positively about this year. But they just don't have enough quality starting pitching to be able to compete. And you're right. They're not a horrible team like they had been the last two years. 100 lost teams are just awful to watch. Nobody wants to see them. But I actually see some sparks that makes me want to continue with this team, provided they don't sell them off at the trade deadline.

09:10 Chris Yeah. And that's always a question. So DG is in the house. As always, thanks for being here, DG. He says it meant nothing. And he laughs. We always count on Mark for his concise, unbiased perception. Unfortunately, when it comes to the Pirates, his comments are sad but true. Luke Morrell is back watching. Thanks, Luke, for being here. What's up to you? I have to address this. Karen was on the show last week. I'm definitely stopping contributing to your stars. True fans stay true fans without the criticism. This is where I'm going to disagree with you. True fans, they're with the team through the highs and the lows. And criticism only comes about because we want them to do better. And as fans, it's part of what we do, is we criticize the team when the team is bad. I don't think there's a professional sports team, college sports team, high school sports team, where there's nobody that is criticizing them. And everybody's just, oh, it's hunky dory. It's great. So you know what, Karen? I am very thankful that you're here and you watch. It really means something to us when people get emotional and you have emotions about what we're talking about here. But I have to disagree with you completely. I mean, you don't have to contribute stars. That's fine. We're obviously not in this for the money. Clearly. I thought we're making a lot. I thought we're making a killing. Maybe you are. I mean, but I'm not. And so I want you to keep talking. And look, if you have something to say, Karen, there's a phone number right there, 412-805-7236. Give us a call. All due respect. You're a fan. We're a fan. And we are true fans. So yeah, it's love for the team. Absolutely. And DG, don't be a Karen. Karen, we're all just having fun. Now, let's just be nice to Karen, though. I'm not being mean to Karen. I think it's wonderful that she watches the show and she has such passion for the team. And she doesn't want to hear anybody say anything negative. But the point is, when there's something negative about it, you got to bring it out. So I want to-

11:21 Marc I'll tell you what. I'll also kind of on that mark there. Now look, the owners of the teams often do not listen to the fans. Oh, of course not. But sometimes they do. Yes. Sometimes they really do. And if the fans don't state what their concerns are, that's another vehicle to right the ship for the better

11:47 SPEAKER_01 that you're not taking advantage of. I agree. Yeah, and I think the owners also think about their wallets, too. And when they looked at the pics ahead of them, they said, now, would it make sense to spend the $10 million on this picture now and have this picture for three or four years at a very cheap rate, and then have a nice piece to be able to sell off unless you hit pay dirt? And who knows? They might hit pay dirt. I mean, it's very possible the Kansas City Royals did it with a lesser roster, you might even say. So dude, I will take a World Series, not even if we don't even win it, just to be in the World Series in the next three years over what we have had the past 25 years.

12:39 Chris You know what I mean? Yeah, and that's including the cut years.

12:42 SPEAKER_01 Yeah, the good cut years. I would rather them just go all in. And OK, maybe they don't make as much money, but they will absolutely make money if this team goes to the World Series. I promise you, they'll make more money that year

12:54 Chris than any other year. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. So I want to address a couple of things you guys brought up. OK, so it's not 100 lost team. Well, when we were 20 and 8, it didn't look that way. But since then, we've been 21 and 41. That's 100 lost team. So I don't know. I don't know. Obviously, there are two big issues with the Pirates right now. One is starting pitching. We've talked about that. Mitch Keller looks great. He really does. He had a damn good outing the other night against the Diamondbacks. He took a no-hitter into the sixth inning. And then after the fact, Shelton pulled him in the seventh inning. And I have to disagree with that. I think he let that guy go. He'd given up one hit. And they go to the bullpen. They end up going into extra innings. And then Bednar comes in in pitches, too. And he's not going to be perfect. Bednar is a great reliever. But nobody's perfect the whole season. And that happened to be the game where he couldn't hold them. And Arizona ended up winning. And next thing you know, they waste another great outing by Mitch Keller. And I know it's frustrating for the whole team. And I know it's frustrating for the manager. But I have to question that decision. He comes back against the D.B. That was after he had a fairly, by his standards this year, not a great outing at all against the Dodgers. But it wasn't a horrible outing. And then you've got a young guy like Ronzi Contreras, who in the beginning of the year was pitching very, very well. He seemed to lose his mojo. He's only 23. So they finally optioned him back now, which I think they should have done weeks ago. And the bullpen had some injuries. And it got kind of messed up. I contend that the real issue here this year is the hitting and the lineup. And I know I'm a parrot. I'm parroting this over and over again. I'm a broken record. Figure out the damn lineup. I am now convinced that Jiwon Bae is not a good player yet. He's basically in his rookie year. But even though I think he should be batting leadoff, I think that he should have been batting leadoff from day one because of his ability to run his speed and his scrappiness. And at the same time, I'm not sure he belongs on the roster right now. Sawinsky is an enigma to me. If the guy had 10 more hits this year, he'd have 22 home runs. He'd be batting 260. And he'd be in the All-Star game. So why are you taking him and moving him from second to third to sixth to fifth to fourth to? He has demonstrated on all the games that he is the number five hitter right now. And probably, if he raises his average, he could be the number four hitter. You put him in the lineup when you know guys are going to be on base. They had an injury to cut. He's back on the IL. And Key Bryant Hayes is on the IL. But that Jared Triolo, he's got a better glove than Key Bryant Hayes. He's got a better glove. He is a better fielder. And everybody says that Key Bryant Hayes is this otherworldly fielder. Well, listen, I've watched like 80 games this year. He was good. But I didn't see anything spectacular. I mean, I saw good plays that maybe some third baseman may not have gotten to. But in the small sample size with Jared Triolo, now he made a couple of mistakes in the last game. But they weren't errors. They were just kind of upfielding. They gave the guy a hit. But I've seen Triolo in his small sample size make some absolutely unbelievable plays. And he's a better hitter than Key Bryant Hayes. He's a better hitter. So I think the problem is we don't have the pop in that lineup, which leads me to this. And then I'll let you guys go to town. I didn't agree with the Paul Skeens. I think we should have taken Dillon Cruz. I think we should have taken an everyday player who is going to hit the ball and hit it hard. And he could actually end up playing in the major leagues next year. Skeens, he throws, to me, he throws too hard. He's going to have arm problems. That's my opinion.

17:43 Marc What do you guys think? Well, you're completely wrong. And number one, when did you start becoming an analytics guy? The analytics guys will tell you that he's going to have arm problems. Maybe he's just a guy who can throw the ball and take it every single week. I mean, come on, man. Come on. Come on, man. Come on, man. And the bottom line is, look. I mean, there's a lot of guys who can hit the ball. There aren't a lot of number one starters. True. And your number one starter goes out every fifth day. And what's really important that they do is, when you have a lockdown number one starter, every fifth game you've got a chance to win, honestly, no matter how good the offense is. And it also is a loss stopper. So you don't usually get into lengthy losing streaks when you have a 1A type starter. And the bottom line is, believe it or not, they say he's more ready than the outfielder is. They say he could potentially, I mean, I don't think they're going to have him do it. But they say he could potentially pitch in the majors this year. So that's always the right move. You've got to think about it like this. You've got to think about who's it going to be? Is it going to be Nolan Ryan or? The greatest pitcher of all time? Yeah, is it going to be Nolan? Are you going to pick Nolan Ryan? The greatest pitcher of all time.

19:33 SPEAKER_01 Are you going to pick Mookie Betts? You can pick Nolan Ryan. I agree with Mark here. I mean, the reality is the Pirates will never, ever go out and buy a pitcher. They just won't. And they will only have the opportunity to have a guy like this potentially is if they draft him. So that's why I like it. I agree with you. They do need somebody to have more pop in the lineup. I mean, Swinsky this year is that guy. But let's face it, he strikes out way too many times. And he can't hit a curve ball. And to your point about injury, the injury doesn't come from throwing the ball hard. The injury comes from throwing all the junk. That's what really messes up the muscles in the shoulder and certainly in the elbow. So if he's got a strong arm, he's always going to have a strong arm. Now, over time, after five years of throwing it, he's going to have to learn to do something else. Even Nolan Ryan still can throw a strong fastball today. But it's clearly not 108 mile per hour fastball. It's only 78. So you do lose that speed over time. But we don't care about pitchers over time at Pittsburgh. We only care about the next three to four years. That's about all we can afford. That's all that they will shell out to keep. They can afford to keep him, but they won't keep him. In fairness to the owners this year, they have shelled out more money than ever before for players. So maybe that will change even in three years from now, I'm hoping, if this prospect turns out to be really good. But I do agree with you. It is a sexy pick to take a guy who can hit the hell out of the ball and is always on base, is a good base runner and is very, I mean, look at who's that guy in Cincinnati now, Della Cruz or somebody like that. I mean, he's just a phenom and you see him in all the highlights, right? So the opposite is true when you have somebody who's that dynamic and is really great. It's good for your team, it's good publicity. And it really sparks the whole team to have a player like that. But I contend that they can go out and get that person once they become a little bit more relevant

21:58 Chris than 41 and 49 at the All-Star break. Yeah, and that's the issue now and let's transition right to that. And first, let's get DG's comment in here. Experts claim that Skeens is a generational talent. If that pans out, this will be remembered as a good pick. And the problem is, Garrett Cole is always going to be remembered as a good pick. That's why we get excited about things like this, but past history with this ownership group has shown that even if they do pan out, they're not gonna pan out here for long. And you never know, look, owners do have changes of heart sometimes. So as long as you know that the ownership group that you have, and in this case, Nutting, the Nutting family is not going anywhere, then you just have to hold out hope that maybe they have a change of heart and decide to do things differently. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, but you can always hope. And Lauren charms in and says one contract and done, right?

23:05 SPEAKER_01 Yeah, Lauren's probably right. I mean, that's what they've always done. I mean, it's hard to break up from that. But like I said, the last year, they've shut out more money than ever before. Maybe there is a different philosophy going on in the management, I don't know,

23:28 Chris or the ownership, I should say. And so that leads us to this. This is always the hard time of year, okay? We're eight games under 500. We're eight and a half back in the central division. And if you've listened to the Buccos report after every Buccos game on the Sports Porch podcast, you know that my opinion is, and you guys can disagree with me with you want, if you want, but I don't think you're going to, the only playoff team coming out of the NL central is gonna be the winner of the NL central. So if you're talking about, you know, playoffs. Playoffs. Playoffs, playoffs, yeah. I mean, you think that guy goes, you think Mora goes to bed at night and wakes up sweating, screaming playoffs

24:18 SPEAKER_01 because it totally ruined his career as a coach? Well, everybody wants a meme, that's his meme.

24:25 Chris That's his meme. He created a meme before memes were something. So the danger here is that you know that the pirates are going to be, it's not will they be, they are going to be sellers at the trade deadline. They're not going to stand Pat.

24:43 SPEAKER_01 Well, I mean, as long as they sell guys like J.J. Wan Bae, I'm okay with that. But what are they going to get for him? Who cares? He doesn't have to play for us anymore. And that's the important thing. Like Nick Gonzales clearly is the future at second base. Right. Just start playing him now and trade the other guy. I mean, I think that's the important thing with this team. You want to find out who is your future and just start playing them. J.J. Wan Bae, okay. Thank you for a half a season of mediocrity. Your services are no longer needed. You know, Nick Gonzales is the future. I say the same with the catching, with the catcher position. Austin Hedges, thank you for being a rental player for half a year. Please leave. You no longer are necessary. We have plenty of other catchers, including our right fielder, Henry Davis, who would like to catch the ball.

25:35 Marc Somebody is madly in love with Austin Hedges though.

25:40 SPEAKER_01 Oh, for sure. Well, because he's a great character guy and he's awesome in the locker room.

25:45 Chris I love those character guys. And he's got big eyes. Yeah, that to me is still an absolute mystery. It's a total mystery. I can't think of how many games it's come down to either the eighth or the ninth inning, and you're coming up on the bottom of that lineup and the pirates are down by two, not one. That didn't happen a whole lot, but they're down by two. And you're throwing up a guy batting 178.

26:15 SPEAKER_01 Pinch hit for him or let delay. It is a mystery within a enigma, within a conundrum. It's like a turducken. It's like a turducken. Absolutely like a turducken, but not as tasty.

26:31 Chris It has nothing to do with food. Yeah, I know. My wife and I saw some shoes at Nordstrom this past week and I said, those are turducken shoes. I should have taken a picture because I can't paint you a picture, but next time I'll take a picture. So-

26:48 Marc Thanks for sharing. I really wanted to talk some women's shoes this week.

26:51 SPEAKER_01 I was really hoping we were talking about turducken shoes tonight.

26:55 Chris Are they Jimmy Choo shoes? Who doesn't? No, they were- I don't really want to know. I think they were Louie's. I don't know. It doesn't matter. So- It's a turducken version. I guess the point that I was trying to make- It does matter. I guess the point that I was trying to make about this guys was that, yeah, of course, go ahead. Trade Jiwon Bae. But the whole idea behind this is that the pirates, when they do this, they always want to justify whether it's right or wrong, the return that they're getting. They always want to say, yeah, this guy was doing well for us, but look at the players we got. And Jiwon Bae is not the kind of guy you trade. My concern, and look, I could be completely wrong about this, and I'm not saying it's going to happen, but this is my concern. My concern is that the people that are going to be on the trading block, and I don't know about contract issues and stuff like that. Maybe it's impossible for some of these guys, but are going to be Bednar, Keller, Swinsky. You know what I mean?

28:09 SPEAKER_01 I mean, Swinsky- I don't think they're going to get rid of Keller at this point. I think they recognize that if, literally, if they traded away Keller, even if they got, whatever, another great prospect and another good pick, that they're basically signaling this season's garbage. And even next season is garbage, because they won't have anybody to replace him except for maybe Schemes.

28:33 Chris And once again, he's just a prospect. He's an unknown, right.

28:37 SPEAKER_01 Yeah, so I don't think, I mean, I was high on the horse about him definitely going to be traded at the deadline. I don't see that happening now. I will be very surprised. I won't be disappointed about anything this organization does, but I will be surprised if they do end up trading him at the trade deadline. I think he's an important part moving forward. You got to keep a couple important parts. And Kutch, to me, he's the guy that's on the bubble. I think they could probably get something for him, but do they want to keep him? I wouldn't be upset, as upset, if they traded him, but it doesn't look good for them, because then they're basically signaling, yeah, we just brought him in to put fans in the seat early in the season.

29:24 Chris That's not a good look for the organization. Yeah, I mean, they could trade Kutch and get a return, because Kutch is a veteran bat, and a team that has playoff potential could use a veteran bat and would definitely, I guarantee you they're going to get offers for Kutch. Oh yeah, for sure.

29:43 SPEAKER_01 But it would be a PR leader. Well, Keller too, they'll get offers for Keller too.

29:47 Chris Well, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. The one guy I think that'll go is probably Rich Hill, and he's the guy that I feel really bad about, because when he plays, he literally looks like he's going to pass out halfway through the game. I mean, 43 years old, he's sweating, he's swearing, he's talking to himself, you know, and I got to hand it to the guy. He pitches his heart out, you know, he is an old school, let me eat up the innings, I'm going to throw you junk, I'm going to catch you off guard, and he's just, you know, he's, I hate to say it, Mr. Hill, you know, he's on his last legs, but he's still got, he's got a good year left in him, and I think if they're going to do anybody a favor, because look, you can see the frustration that he has pitching for the Tigers. He's over the hill. Well, right guys. But I think if they're going to do anybody a favor, they should do him a favor. They should, they should, you know, there's a potential contender out there who's looking for a back of the end, back of the rotation kind of guy who can eat up some innings and maybe even come in in relief for a change of pace because he doesn't throw it very fast. Although I have seen him throw a couple balls in the mid 90s, but I mean, that's like, he's gassing it out. And then they got to give him a respirator before he throws the next pitch. But, you know, I think that's the guy that really, I don't know what your return is going to be for him other than a couple prospects, but he's the guy I think is probably going to go for sure. That would, that would be my guess.

31:25 Marc I think it's going to all be determined by how well they play over the next three weeks. You know, if they have a really bad July, like can go like, you know, like, I don't know, five and 10 or something, you know, then you've got a bigger chance of somebody of worth being traded. Whereas if they, you know, if they play 500 ball, and look, I mean, look, they're not really in it. I mean, they're like six and a half out, I believe of the last wild card. But, you know, if somehow they find themselves at the end of July, three out of the wild card, then I don't think anybody of, you know,

32:09 Chris decent worth is going to be traded. Well, that's the thing. And this goes back to what we talked about a little bit earlier Schwabber,

32:19 Marc they're eight out of the wild card right now. Oh, are they?

32:22 Chris Are you sure about that? Yes, I'm looking at the standings right now. They are eight. The Mets, the Cubs, the Padres, the Brewers, and the Phillies are actually a half game out of the wild card right now. And then you have the Giants, Diamondbacks, and Marlins. Okay. But the wild card does not matter in this division unless somebody catches fire, who's not going to win it. What are they out of the division? Eight and a half. Oh, eight and a half of the division. Yeah, so basically they're eight and a half games out of a playoff spot. And Cincinnati has a great young team that was totally underestimated and got off to a horrible start. The Cubs are a better team. And the Brewers, they're not really, what's funny is they're not really a better team. They're pretty much an even team on paper, but they're pesky and they do have some hitters in the lineup. So I just don't think that it's possible that they even make a run for it unless a miracle happens and they rattle off 10 straight wins and play 500 ball the rest of the way. And with the lineup the way it is right now, and with the pitching the way it is right now, it's just not a possibility. So they're gonna be sellers. There's no doubt about it. The question is, who are they gonna sell? They don't have a whole lot to sell. So on a positive note, Jimon Choi, or I always get the name, Choi is back in the lineup. Now everybody's talking about how he's not hitting the ball very well. Well, he got injured earlier in the year, but he has a little pop in his bat. So maybe if he can solidify and maybe be that number four hitter and you have Santana at six and Swinski at five, then you've got something going there. Who knows? There are some other guys that will come back from injury like Koch, like Key Brian Hayes, and maybe they can put something together. But I am just not, I'm not very optimistic. I'm not very optimistic. However, we're gonna continue the buckos reports on the sports porch podcast, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, Spotify, or anywhere you get your podcasts, because I do have fun doing it. And I do enjoy- That is something that only a true fan would do. That's right, Karen.

34:47 SPEAKER_01 Okay, so- Mark said that, Chris.

34:51 Chris Mark said that. I know, I know.

34:54 Marc I was, you know what I was doing. Well, I'm saying anybody that would subject themselves to that task.

34:59 SPEAKER_01 Yeah, I mean, and you are absolutely subjecting yourselves to really a death sentence. Well- It's torture. I think you're taking years off of your life by doing this. You recognize that, right?

35:10 Chris I see it as like CIA level torture. I, listen, you guys know-

35:17 SPEAKER_01 You can't argue with it.

35:18 Chris It's just- No, but you guys know me well enough to know that I've probably already taken all the years off my life that anybody could possibly take.

35:27 Marc No, but this is waterboarding. I don't think you could do it.

35:30 SPEAKER_01 I'll tell you- Yeah, that other stuff was a lot more fun. That's definitely the way to take years off your life. We're questioning it.

35:42 Chris Yeah, that's tough. Yeah, you guys are like, why don't you just go like, why don't you just get a drug addiction or something? That might actually be more fun than watching the pirates.

35:52 Marc Yeah. We shouldn't say things like that with our viewers. I like that kind of party.

36:00 Chris So, okay, let's move on here. Steelers, are we going to have a little debate here on whether or not Mike Tomlin is the greatest coach that ever lived or not? Is it time for that debate?

36:13 SPEAKER_01 Who started this debate? I think it was people who got bored waiting for training camps to start. They're like, what can be more controversial? Talking about Tomlin as being one of the greatest coaches of all time or whether Kenny Pickett's going to be great this year. And they decided the Kenny Pickett talk will kind of play itself out in the next three or four weeks. So why not start this conversation about

36:40 Chris whether Mike Tomlin has been a great coach in the NFL? I just started it. And if you're listening to us and you want to voice your opinion, you're not going to be on screen. You're just going to be a voice. You can call us at 412-805-7236. It's right down there on the bottom of the screen. So is Mike Tomlin one of the top 10 all time NFL coaches?

37:05 SPEAKER_01 Does anybody think that? No, I don't. I mean, I think there are people that do think that though. I mean, they look at his overall record. You know, they say things like, well, he has made it to two Super Bowls. And they say things like, he's never had a losing record

37:31 Chris since he's taken over the team. Hold on, hold on. He's made it to three and one too, right? He's made it to three and one too. Well, fellas, we do have a call coming in here. Well, let's see what they have to say about Tomlin. Yeah, let's see.

37:50 Steve Thank you for calling the Sports Porch. Oh. Hello. Hello there. How are you guys tonight?

37:57 Chris I just wanted to say that I'm enjoying the show. Oh, wow.

38:01 SPEAKER_01 Thank you. I recognize that voice.

38:02 Steve It's nice to have you on the show. Well, I just thought I'd call. Hopefully Mark isn't telling any dating stories

38:12 SPEAKER_01 from his wild days. Not yet, but since you brought them up, you know, you just opened it up. Yeah.

38:19 Marc So what is your opinion? Is Mike Tomlin one of the greatest football coaches

38:26 Steve of all time? No. I would say he's a good, like kind of steady Eddie. He's usually a good coach just because of his winning record. Never having a losing season record, but I would say not the top 10 best because he should have won more Super Bowls when he had the team with AB and Ben

38:55 Chris and you know, all those good players. It's hard to argue with that logic. Yeah, I kind of agree. I mean, would I put him as one of the better NFL coaches in history? Like if you're not ranking them? Yeah, I do because I think that, and I was having a discussion with a friend of ours right before the show on this, an avid Steelers fan who I'm sure will call in at some point or maybe even make an appearance, but I think he's done a great job at keeping the team when it was looking like it was gonna fall, keeping them at or above mediocrity, which is not, it's really not easy. It's really not easy to do that. I mean, you know, an NFL team has a lot of moving parts and the Steelers have had a lot of moving parts and some of them have been a little bit on the crazy side and the fact that he's never had a losing record, I think is really, I mean, that speaks to his ability to coach, but there's no Mike Tomlin coaching tree that I'm aware of.

40:08 Steve Does that make sense, caller? Yes, that makes sense.

40:12 Chris I agree with what you're saying 100%. Can I use your name, caller? Caller, can I, Amy?

40:20 Steve Yes. He, I would definitely say he's maybe, definitely in the top 50, maybe even 20. I don't, I'm not sure about that, but I would definitely not say top 10, but I mean, I still think he's been a good coach and, you know, we never go into the season thinking, oh my God, this is gonna be a crap show. A crap show. A crap show? A crap show, yeah. Yes, we understand exactly what you mean. Yeah, yeah, so, okay, well, I'll let you guys talk. Well, thanks for calling, Amy, we appreciate it. All right, bye. Bye.

41:05 SPEAKER_01 Some good insight from the young lady there. Yeah, I mean, I think she made some really good points about him being a steady Eddie, I believe was the word she used. Yes. Because he really has been that. I mean, he's taken some really average teams and made them a little bit better than average, actually almost made them playoff teams. But unfortunately with the really good teams, he wasn't able to take them to the promised land. And unfortunately here in Pittsburgh, well, maybe in the past anyways in Pittsburgh, that was the standard. And since we haven't been to the Super Bowl, if we don't make it this year in 13 seasons, that will mark our longest drought with no Super Bowls since the relevant 1970 season when the Super Bowl started. So that's a big negative, even if he doesn't, even if he doesn't have a winning record this year, not to have the record of the longest drought of not making a Super Bowl will absolutely put him in the spotlight among Steelers fans.

42:11 Marc That I'm gonna mention. And here's the thing, I mean, there's definitely something to say for the team never bottoming out. And I don't know what it is. Maybe there were like three eight and eights in there or three nine and eights in there, whatever they were. But to be honest, being a football fan, I would much rather have my team bottom out, have a three and 13, three and 14 season, have a four and 12, four and 13 season, and then come back and have a run for like seven years and win two Super Bowls. I would rather that than 13 years straight of a winning record. Right.

43:02 SPEAKER_01 Yeah, well, the philosophy of the Steelers is as long as you can make the playoffs, you have a chance at getting to the Super Bowl. Yeah, they voice that. That is a philosophy, but I think there are some flaws in it because we all know that you have to be playing a certain way when you make it into the playoffs. You can't just arrive and then suddenly start playing like a Super Bowl team. And I think that's been the problem with the Steelers. In the years where they've been good, they kind of limped into the playoffs. In the years when they made it into the playoffs and they weren't necessarily good, they were playing well, but they didn't really have a great team where you were like worried about them beating you in the first round. And I think that's been the problem with the Steelers for over a decade now. And they haven't really changed the way they approach that. So that's all we're really expecting. Okay, well, if we make the playoffs this year, then we'll probably be pretty good. And unfortunately, I just don't think the talent right now is there to be able to consider ourselves relevant, especially with those who are saying that the Steelers this year are going to reach the AFC championship. I just don't see the talent level unless Kenny Pickens can somehow turn into Dan Marino this year, or even a better Trevor Lawrence than what happened with Trevor Lawrence last year. That would be the only way that would absolutely shock me because this division is going to be very good and the games are going to be very tough when we're playing against our division. So we'll have to see, we'll have to see how that plays out. But as far as Tomlin being an all time great coach, top 10, absolutely not. I do agree with Amy. I think he could probably make a play for him being in the top 25, maybe of all times. If I created a list, I bet he would probably fit in there around between 20 and 25, somewhere in that neck of the woods. Because the guy who actually has the record for the consecutive number of years, and he retired, the only reason it didn't get worse was Chuck Knol. And Chuck Knol clearly is a hall of fame coach with four Super Bowl wins. But he didn't really end his career on a very high note. In fact, he basically peaked early and really just kind of held on the last 12 years of his career before he retired

45:25 Chris and handed over the reins to Bill Cowher. So this is a replay, other than Tomlin didn't win four Super Bowls.

45:33 SPEAKER_01 So, okay. It could be, I mean, but I mean, who says Tomlin's not gonna coach for the Steelers another five or 10 years? I don't think so. I just, I don't know. I mean, he has not said that, you know, he's tiring of being a football coach. He says he wakes up every day thinking about how to make this team better. Like, this guy still loves the game. So, and the Steelers are not gonna fire him from the position. So, I mean, even if, but I think it will be really interesting when they don't make the Super Bowl this year, if people start picking up on the fact that he will be the longest tenured coach in Steelers history not to make a Super Bowl

46:14 Chris and what that means to the organization. Yeah, so, okay. So we'll push this debate. Maybe we'll come up with a list or Steve can come up with a list when we get more into football season, which is fast approaching and we can't wait. We're gonna do a quick one here. Hockey Jesus has some preaching to do about the Penguins. You can always call us at 412-805-7236. Couple moves and we're wrapping up on the hour here and we got one more segment. So make it quick, H.J.

46:44 SPEAKER_01 Make it quick. I don't believe that this happened. I think this happened after our last show. They signed Will Butcher, which I just love this signing. I love the name. It's a great name. The guy that actually won the Hobie Baker Award is the best college player. And at the time, this was like three years ago, the Penguins really were out to get him and they lost him, I believe, to maybe New Jersey and he ended up in Buffalo. Anyways, they signed him. So I think that's a really good signing. I love that signing. I think that could really work well, especially if they still get Eric Carlson, which we'll talk about in a second. They also signed two other guys, Vinnie Henestrosa and Andreas Johnson. Henestrosa's from Buffalo and Johnson's from San Jose. Are you sure that's not Jonson? Jonson, Jonson. I don't know. He is definitely a… He's basically heading to the minor leagues. He's not really gonna play for the Penguins. What they're trying to do is with all these signings, and they've signed so many bottom six guys, you're just gonna see who can make the team and then everybody else is gonna go to Wilkes-Barre. What's basically they're trying to do is help the baby pens, not with their draft picks so much as with some of these guys who are signing two-way contracts so they can send them down. Most of these guys will clear waivers. You still have to clear waivers. So there is a chance that they could sign them. They send them down. They don't clear waivers and somebody else picks them up, but it's a small risk. So that's what's going on in the world of hockey. The thing to pay attention to the next 24 of the 48 hours is the Eric Carlson deal. The pens are still in it supposedly. It seems like the deal may be down to either us or Carolina. I think this is a game changer for the Penguins if they can get Eric Carlson and either get rid of Petrie's contract or supposedly Grandland's contract is in the mix also. So we talked about Grandland and the fact that they didn't buy out his contract. Looks like he may be part of this deal to get Carlson in. Somebody is gonna eat Grandland's contract and we're gonna take on Carlson. Now Carlson is an $11.5 million guy. The pens don't have that kind of cap space. So they'll have to clear some cap space to be able to sign him. And that's what's taken this so long. I don't think he actually wants to go to Carolina. There was some talk about Carlson and Brett Burns who used to play together in San Jose, not really getting along. Those could just be rumors created by Penguins fans so that he doesn't go to Carolina. I think if he goes to Carolina, that Carolina team is clearly the front runner in the East to make it to the Stanley Cup finals. They would just be incredible with Carlson as part of their defensive pairing. And they went and got Orloff too. So that makes them a much more higher scoring defense than ever before from that position than they ever have been. They've not really seen a lot of scoring from there. Yeah, so that's your Hockey Jesus update. And I'm getting really excited about the new season coming up. Now that the draft has been done, it looks like most of the free agents have signed. These are trades by the way. These guys are already signed. So it's not like you're just going out to sign the guys. Most of the guys who signed, who are free agents already have been signed. There are a few that are lingering out there but most of these are just trade deals for teams, for players who just don't wanna play on their team anymore. And they're just trying to get rid of them to switch up their team before the season starts.

50:41 Marc So Steve, quick Wimbledon question for you. Choke a neck.

50:47 SPEAKER_01 On the men's side, Jokovic or the field? You gotta go with Jokovic, right? I mean, the guy's on a mission and he's just playing incredible hockey right now. Tennis, you mean? Yes. Yeah, I said hockey.

51:01 Chris Why did I say hockey? They're both the same to me, so.

51:04 SPEAKER_01 Well, they both have, no. One stick. A puck versus a ball. No, they're not even close. Okay. Yeah, I like Jokovic a lot. I think he's the man. I think he's gonna win all four of them. I think he's gonna complete the Grand Slam this year. That would be something. I mean, the Dow is out of the mix, so who's gonna stop him? Right, right. You know, that's the thing. Very true. That's always, and I don't think the Dow can stop him on grass anyways. He's the best grass player of all time. Better than Federer even, which is incredible to say. Because he was an incredible talent on the ice.

51:40 Marc I mean, on the grass. Nice stop, bud.

51:42 Chris Chris, any Wimbledon choices? Chris, what do you think about the women's draw? Well, I do think- Twitech? I do think John McEnroe still has a shot.

51:54 SPEAKER_01 And- John McEnroe? Jimmy Connors. You going sweet, or- Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Are you telling me that John McEnroe had a sex change? Is that what you're trying to break on the sports porch tonight?

52:09 Chris I, that question scares the hell out of me. So I'm not even gonna answer it. Okay, what are we watching? What are you watching? Ooh, we almost forgot. Call us at 412-805-7236 and tell us live what you are watching, because we are going to tell you what we are watching right now and what we are enjoying. And I am going to lead it off with this. This is Steve. No! I have no idea. What is that?

52:40 SPEAKER_01 What are you doing? This is a game that you can play on the internet. It's called Puck Doko. Okay. Okay. So what you have to do is you have to pick players who fit both categories. So in this case-

52:55 Chris This already sounds too complicated.

52:57 SPEAKER_01 You have to pick a player who has 40 plus goals in a single season and also played for the Dallas Stars. Or a 40 goal scorer, and you get nine chances. So there are nine spaces. So basically you get nine shots. And if you get all nine in nine, then good for you. Are you watching yourself play it? I'm watching others. You can actually, you're supposed to submit and then you can see others results. So in a way it's just a game. But actually I do have to admit that I did see a real movie. I did go see Indiana Jones. What'd you think?

53:37 Marc And the Dial of Destiny. I heard it wasn't very good. Your comments?

53:43 SPEAKER_01 So here's, it's what you would expect it to be. And in fact, I actually think they did a really good job of making it look like Indiana Jones can still move like he's 40 years old. Oh yeah. Which is pretty incredible. Cause I mean, clearly Harrison Ford has completely lost it. But when he puts that hat on and that leather jacket and he gets his whip out, like you actually believe like he could still do it. He's in, he's in the all over again. Yeah. I mean, I thought that was pretty incredible. They, you know, they had some touching moments but that Phoebe Kate's Bridgers or whoever that is, she's, she plays the lead opposite of him. She steals the show. She's just phenomenal. She's in a flea bag. You've probably seen her. Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. And she's, she was just great. Like she, she made the whole movie. Her acting was just incredible. And the action scenes, you know, they're not as, they're not good to today's standards, but by, you know when Indiana Jones started, it's the same standard. They, they, they kept the same standard of, you know you were kind of on edge at times, but not really. I mean, how many times can, can centipedes come out of the wall and climb all over you and you get, you know

54:57 Chris really freaked out by that. Happens in my basement every day.

55:00 Marc Plus whenever you hear Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun Like, you know, he's getting out of it.

55:05 SPEAKER_01 Right. Yeah. Or he has gotten out of it.

55:08 Chris Right. Right. Right. Okay. Mark, you are watching something.

55:13 Marc I've already watched it. You have watched something. Yep. Love and death on Max. It's like, I can't remember exactly. I think it was like 10 episodes. And it was great. It was, it was great. It's a true story about a housewife turned ex murderer in the seventies in a, in a nice church going town. I think I watched that movie on Skinamax. It's not a movie. It's a series and no, for those of you who don't know what Skinamax is, it's something that used to call Cinemax a channel. Late night, late night, late night, late night.

56:07 Chris But of course you would know all about that, Chris. Everybody knows.

56:11 Marc Well, you seem to know a lot about it too. I will tell you what though, I can guarantee you within, I can guarantee you within 30 seconds, you will watch this show, Chris. And you will probably drop whatever you're watching now to watch it. Okay. Okay. All right. Reason being the, one of the lead characters in it is that guy that you really like who played the,

56:37 Chris the troubled brother in Ozark. Oh yeah. Yeah. You like that guy, right?

56:43 Marc And he plays, he plays a lawyer in this. And he's, and he's actually very, very good. And believe it or not, Elizabeth Olsen, the normal one, not Kate and Ashley Olsen, she was phenomenal in it. And I can, I'll tell you what, I feel pretty certain that she's got awards in her future. It's very good.

57:04 Chris You'll enjoy it. Okay. Love and death on Max. Okay. HBO Max. I watched, we're getting a bunch of comments in here. Amy says, it's great. I loved it. I'm not sure who DG is talking about. I think I used to date her probably the previous. One of the Olsens. Maybe it's possible. I don't know. I don't know.

57:28 SPEAKER_01 I think he put it up there when you showed the picture

57:30 Chris of whoever that was in the picture of love. Oh no. He was talking about the murderous housewife. Yeah. Yeah. Coming from- Sorry about that David. Yeah. You know what, David, I'm right there with you. I think I dated her too. I think I married her. Not the current one, not the current one. Anyway, so I, I'm watching something. This was, this was something that I, I totally just, I just watched it on a whim. It's a movie. It's on Apple plus Tetris. Oh, you love that game. Yes. You know, I did. What are the most all time played video games? Yes. And it was- It's actually number two. I just have to update the ticker because I did it, I did it wrong. So let's get that up there. Yes. Tetris on Apple TV plus. I decided, I thought, you know, I don't know if this is going to be any good, but right. The, the, the title caught me and it's a true story. And it's one of the most incredible stories I, I've ever watched about something that is true to life. And then in the end, of course, they, the, they bring, and DG says, yes, the ax murderer. They, they bring in some of the real life characters that are still alive and they, they talk a little bit about it. And then I watched the after, you know, the extras stuff. And it's the story of how Tetris became a video game in the West. And I don't want to ruin it for you. So all I'm going to say is it was a Russian programmer in Soviet era Russia, Russia, who created this, this video game in Russia at a government agency and this guy that lit this American that lived in Japan and was kind of a software programmer publisher. Somehow he got wind of it. And not only did he get wind of it, wind of it, but Robert Maxwell, you know that name, Robert Maxwell? No, no. The big publisher from a Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey. Oh, the publisher. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

59:46 SPEAKER_01 The father.

59:47 Chris Yeah. This is what I did not realize that at the time, Mark, you're just blowing smoke up my ass. And I know. Oh yeah, that felt good. Thanks for that. Everybody knows about him. Yes. Anyway, so there's a tie to the Maxwell's that is really, really interesting. And what they had to go through to get the rights to this game and bring it over here. It's like a spy movie. It's like a mission impossible. And it was done really well. It's great. If you ever played Tetris, you will really, really appreciate this movie. And if you just wanna watch a good movie on a streaming service that's done really well, and it's a great story about a name that everybody, even if people didn't play Tetris, they know what it is. So.

01:00:41 Marc When you say it's like a mission impossible, like is there a scene where somebody drives a motorbike

01:00:47 SPEAKER_01 like off a cliff? Yes. And turns into a piece of Tetris, which then you have to fit into

01:00:55 Chris to save the life of the Tetris. Yes. Yes. And there are masks made out of the Tetris blocks that turn you into Russian KGB agents. Wow. Yeah, it's amazing. Wow, this sounds incredible.

01:01:12 Marc It blew your mind.

01:01:14 Chris So it's a movie though, you're saying. Yeah. Clint Clint Eastwood flies a jet in, a jet that they nicknamed Firefox, and he picks up the Tetris guy and they zoom out. You guys are so full of shit when you mess with me. Just make my day. Make my day.

01:01:32 Marc Make my day.

01:01:35 Chris You're not gonna succeed at this puzzle. Yeah, this is my, and here's my favorite, and it's kind of on the same subject. My favorite science fiction movie, Arnold Schwarzenegger line. Give those people air. You know what I'm talking about?

01:01:53 SPEAKER_01 Oh yeah. It's not a bad impression. Yeah, that was pretty good. Very good. Yeah.

01:01:58 Chris I think we should end on that note. And I think you're absolutely right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've blown it out tonight. We've totally blown it out, but I wanna thank everybody for watching us on social media all over the world. This is the Sports Forge Podcast, and you can catch us on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you get your frigging podcasts. And you can always feel better about yourself by going to theporcheslive.com, theporcheslive.com, theporchislive.com. Com com. And we will be back next week. Can't wait. Little all-star break here, but we got some football stuff coming up. We got some big announcements coming up. Oh yeah.

01:02:42 Marc We got some kind of stuff coming up. You will have your Wimbledon champions crowned. And let's go, Djokovic. And let's go, Bucks. Let's go on to Djibouti. And we're out. I'm waiting. Nothing to say? All right, guys. Why don't you say something? Another great show. I am. Another great show.

01:03:08 Chris I'm saying something right now. We did it again. We did it again.