Episode 2: A bit about me -- My friend John Chao interviews me (and he asks great questions~)

Host:
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Storied Human. I'm Lynne Thompson. And we're going to do something a little different today. I'm going to have a good friend interview me so you can find out about me without me droning on and on. So welcome John Chao, who has his own wonderful podcast, The Maintenance Perspective. 

John:
Yes. And it's all about helping people figure out what their perspectives are, but because their story really impacts the way that people look at things so much. I know that is the case for myself, and I know that is the case for you. And you have just a phenomenal story because I feel like there's a certain level of courageousness in you that you've exhibited, and you've gone through a lot of things that may have hampered that, but you chose not to let that get in the way. When did you feel like you really started to get to know yourself better? 
Host: 
That's a great question. Yeah, I would say that. I have to say that going through grief really deepened me and made me understand myself. And I was always sensitive and empathetic. But after that period of losing my mom, which was 20 years ago. Yeah, it was 20 years ago. I lost my mom very suddenly, and I was so close to her. And she was such a great person that I went into this very deep grief. And I always say, like, I'm an overachiever. So I didn't just go into grief. I went into complicated grief, which is I didn't even know about it. I had never heard of it. But I eventually went to a therapist and she said it was depression, which I do. I tend to get mild depression. So I had depression and grief mixed together. And it's called complicated grief, and I like to talk about it because it can really stop people in their tracks. And some people need to go get help. I waited a little bit like most humans do. I'll tough my way through this, but eventually I went to get help. And that's when I think I changed and really knew myself and got braver about feeling my feelings because like a lot of people, I learned to stuff my feelings down. I always was a people pleaser and wanted everybody to like me and kind of grew up that way, and everybody did pretty much like me. But there's a cost to that over the years. So that's what came out in therapy. And she was so gentle and nice about it, but it was so powerful. Like she just said, you can't keep doing that. It's going to come back. It doesn't go away. You stuff your feelings down over the years, they don't just go away. 
John:
Yeah. Now, in previous conversations, we talked about the idea of choosing love over fear. Do you feel like there was an element of stuffing things down because there was the fear of dealing with it or what caused you to be somebody who stuff you talked about being people pleaser or maybe not wanting to bother people with how you are feeling. What else caused that? And then how did you overcome that? 
Host:
It's a big question.
Yeah. I think the fear was that people wouldn't like me. That was a huge fear and people wouldn't accept me. And I always was a little different. I was a little creative and I always wrote from a very young age, and my parents thought it was great, but it didn't quite fit in the rest of the world. So I learned to protect myself. I think a lot of people protect themselves and they only let certain things out, and that becomes a habit. So, yeah, I lived in fear. I worried, not terribly, but that was a large part of why I kept things down and didn't show my whole self. And I still don't. I mean, most people don't, but you have to be a little braver if you're going to grow, you know, I wasn't growing. That's a very good way to say it. So, yeah, what did I do? I did read a wonderful book years ago called Love Is Letting Go of Fear, and it was this little slim book. I can't remember his name. I'll have to look it up for you. But it just blew my mind how simple it was. And it said something so beautiful. It said you can't feel love and fear at the same time. You have to choose, right? You have to choose. And that just blew my mind. I was like, what do you mean? But it became really powerful for me because when you start to feel fear, if you could just take a moment and take a breath and choose love instead, it transforms your interactions and it's very powerful. I had something happen in New York. Very simple thing happened that showed me this works. So I went to New York with my niece and my daughter. My niece was like 15. My daughter was like seven or eight. And we went to the American girl place. It was upper Midtown. And we parked where we always park in this parking garage. And I had to go to the bathroom, I always do before we left the parking garage. And we went and we had a great day. And we came back and the man who was running the garage came out to me and he was like, all angry. And he just was like, you ruined the bathroom. It's a mess in there. What did you do? And he was just, like, really attacking me. I have a temper. I'm like anybody else, and I can really fight back. And I'm strong, right. So I was going to be really angry back. But I had read this book and I was like, sort of thinking about it, and I thought, well, maybe if I just try this moment to transform this, because he's coming at me with fear because that's what anger is, right? That's what lashing out is. And it was really strong.  I touched his hand and I said, we didn't do anything to the bathroom, but if you want me to look, I will. And his whole face changed. Wow. I'm getting chills thinking about it. His whole face changed because I touched him, too. My mother taught me that she was a therapist. Always touch someone a little bit when you're talking to them because it gets into them. And he just, like, backed off. And he apologized. And I gave him a tip, and we left. Wow. And I said, oh, my God, it really does work. So things like that started happening. And I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I'm much more loving now. Much more loving. 
John:
Wow. And that's so powerful because you described what fear did to you, and I'm seeing what is happening with love in your life. You're smiling. You're really showing up as your best self. I love the story as well. What else does it look like to choose love over fear for you? 
Host:
I'm just more supportive. Like, I noticed when people were angry or I used to get into I'm not proud of this, but I used to get into fights, like, on Facebook debates that turned into a little angry in comments and stuff. And I'd be baited into doing that. And that started to change. And I didn't do it, like, super consciously. I just noticed I didn't want to hurt people. So I would start even with the most hateful comments. I would say, I hear what you're saying. I feel that way sometimes, too. But have you considered blah? And it just takes the energy out of the anger. It takes it down a notch. I'm not saying it's perfect, but at least I wasn't contributing. Lifting the anger. 
John:
Yes, totally. And I can see how that is all a part of you also healing from the grief as well. What a creative way for you to take something that you read and apply it. What other things did you do to get well from that time of grief? I think helping other people with their grief, I noticed that people just talk to me about it, and I was able to understand and to be supportive. I noticed I kept saying this one line to everyone, everywhere, and I still say it. I say, be gentle with yourself. People are so hard on themselves, and they're not taught that grief takes a long time. Sometimes. We're not taught that. We're taught, like, okay, it's been six weeks. You should be better. And then they feel like there's something wrong with them. 
John:
Yes. 
Host:
And it's really just individual. And I've got to be honest with you, it depends how close you were to the person you lose. 
John:
Yes. 
Host:
You know, like, grief can be a little bit easier if you just weren't that close to the person. You feel sad you missed them, but you work through it. With my mother, it was devastating and it was really hard. But yes, I'm getting off the topic. What was I supposed to talk? Oh, I noticed recently, like the last year, I don't like posts. I love them. I use hearts all the time. And I caught myself. I'm like, what are you doing? And I'm like, no, I feel love. I feel love. This person needs to feel supported and loved. So I give it out more. I just enjoy it. I enjoy being that person. 
John:
Yes. What a great way to turn the lens from being so much in word, which I think is a downward spiral that people can get caught up in to outward. And I'm sure the more you're giving your love, you're also receiving a ton of love back. 
Host:
Yeah. It's a miracle, actually, the way that works because you just start doing it. They always say that. They say if you don't feel well, if you're down help someone else. And it's just so huge. Yeah. It really works. 
John:
Yes, 100%. What else was, let's say, a critical part of your story that you really feel like defines who you are today? 
Host:
That's a big question. I'm trying to think about it. 
John:
Take your time. I know that, for example, being in nature is something that's really important to you. Yes. And so I love to explore what are the different other things that really makes you who you are today? 
Host:
Well, I definitely love nature. I got that from my dad. He used to travel with family, friends. They would go up to Canada, your country. 
John:
Yes. 
Host:
And they would go to part of Quebec and they would go to this little Lake that was 40 miles on a dirt road from any civilization. And this is like 30 years ago, 40 years ago, 50 years ago. So it was really backwoods. And my father cherished that. He used to tell me that's my Church, that it was sacred and that he felt most connected in the forest. And so he raised us that way. He talked about that. And he loved being out in nature and being in water. He taught us to swim. So that's always been a huge part of me. And then when we were eleven and nine, we moved to the country. We bought a house in the country and I had a horse and I had animals. And so that's like my whole reason for being animals and nature and being connected in that way. And now I kind of preach it. I preach it like you've got to be in balance. You've got to be in balance. And you've got to stop living inside of buildings under fluorescent lights and not you forget who you are. You are part of the Earth, too, and you have to get out there. And I got to the point where I don't know how this happened a lot of times. I don't know how stuff happens, because I'm just kind of intuitive. I started to just hear or feel Mother Earth as like a spirit. And I don't mean that any weird way. I just mean there's an energy in the Earth and there's an energy in the forest, and you can feel it if you're quiet. And I began to go outside and put my bare feet on the Earth and send love. And I began to feel more connected to Mother Earth, and I didn't know why. And I started to read that. Yeah, that's what people do. They feel that Gaia is like a whole system. The Earth is a whole system. And however you want to do it, hug a tree or just spend some time being. They call it forest bathing in Japan, get nature washed, right? Yes. It's just really important to still your mind. And I know people do that in meditation, and I need to do more of that. But I also find it super refreshing to be outside and to still my mind and also water. I have to be in water or near water all the time. And Dolphins. I'm obsessed with Dolphins. I'm an ocean lover. I'm obsessed with water. I have to live near the coast. I have to have water. That's important. It's very healing for me. 
Jon:
And that really is literally not just emotional healing, but literally forest bathing is a thing because the oils that are from the bark of the trees actually get diffused into the air. I know. And then we absorb it that way as well. And people make things sound hokey pokey, but it's not. It really is. 
Host:
I didn't know that, if that makes sense. 
John:
Yes. The same way that humans have actually been separated from each other. And you touching the hand of the man explained to them what happened. We were so healing to him. US being separated from nature is also what has happened. And we really get so much healing if you just touch a horse or if you're in the presence of animals or in nature, there is a connection to something bigger than us. But we're just stuck in boxes all day. 
Host:
Exactly. It's so powerful. I remember years ago we were going to join the Quaker Church, and part of what they do is come to your house and talk to you. And so there were like four or five people in our living room, and they were talking, and it's very prayerful. You spend time being quiet together, and you try to get a message, like, try to listen to God. And so we were all deeply listening in this circle and our poodle. We had a standard poodle. And she was like a person. I don't know if you've ever been around a poodle, but they're not like dogs. They're like special souls. She came into the living room, and she kind of bowed down. It was like, freaky. Everybody was like, Whoa. And I'm like, yeah, animals feel this. Animals are connected. And so we were creating, like, the sacred space and really being connected to source, to God. And she felt it, and she showed reverence. She connected. And that was another moment that just like I was like, Whoa, if you ever doubted that things are connected, that people respond and that animals respond. 
John: 
So that was a beautiful moment. I can't express enough about how whole listening to that makes me, because I think we feel very fragmented by trying to be connected to people digitally or we have different followers on Instagram or Facebook. But those things at the end of day, don't really make us whole. But when you're talking about being connected to another person, being connected to nature, really being connected to source, that makes us so whole. And the stories then that people tell can really make an impact on others. 
Host:
Yes. And that was the whole thing behind starting the Storied Human. And I didn't think it through. I just knew I had to do that because stories reveal who we really are. And at a deep level, they can tell a lot about us. They can help people, too, because so many times you go through a lot of pain figuring something out in your life, and you're like, well, why did I go through that if I can't help somebody with it, you know? And it's just such a full circle. It's such a nice feeling. So, yeah, that was part, like, the connection. We want connection and we want to feel whole. Yes, definitely. And I have to say that what came out of those trying to feel love rather than fear was I've always had good intuition, but I sort of, like, sharpened it, and I would find myself talking to someone and I would bring up something kind of like unconsciously. I would just bring up something that they needed to talk about that started happening to me, and it was so rewarding because they would be like, how did you know that? Or like, oh, my gosh, I needed to. So there was that wonderful sort of deeper connection. And I think it led to this podcast stuff because there was a time where I was sort of hiding from the world and wasn't very social. And I don't think that's natural. I think I'm supposed to be out here with the rest of us. 
John:
Absolutely. Even introverts need to be social and to have connection. There is no such thing as being by ourselves. Community, regardless of the size of it, is what we need to be healthy. And I'm really seeing that there's the empath on you, the intuitive in you that has been able to reach people on an individual level, that then you'll be able to do that on a grander level with this podcast. 
Host:
I hope so. I have a healing. Like, I want to heal. Yes. I want to heal people. That's like a big push in my soul. I want to heal people. And I really do touch people. Probably too much. Some people don't like to be I have to be careful. I'm a hugger and a toucher. Yeah. I'm like half introvert and half extrovert, so it's kind of hard. I really love people and I really don't like them. I love people as a whole. Sure. But sometimes it's too much individually, yes. 
John:
Also, sometimes when people are not ready for the love, then they can catch them off guard. But there is something so healing about. Just like appropriate physical touch, a touch on the shoulder or a touch on the top of the head when you're really trying to care for somebody, it brings so much, even physical. I'm sure hormones get released when we have a physical touch with somebody that is really healing for our bodies. 
Host:
That's so true. The oxytocin. It gets that oxytocin going. And after the therapist taught me how to feel my feelings, and it was scary because she said, well, what are you afraid of? And I said, I'm afraid I'll never stop crying if I start to feel this. I'm afraid I'll never stop crying. And she said, but you will. And you have to have faith that you'll get through the feeling. And to me, that was so scary. But I believed her. And I started feeling the feelings. And it had this wonderful effect on my children because they were young. When my mom died, they were like five and three. Okay. And I came home. I think I went a little bit later. It doesn't matter. They were young. And when I came home, it changed how I hugged them. I hugged them and I didn't let go. I let them decide when to stop the hug. It was radical. And I had read that somewhere, but I hadn't put it into practice. Sure. It was radical. 
John:
Wow. 
Host:
They melted in my arms. And children always they're not in a hurry. Like, they don't have a schedule that we have. So they never stopped the hug when I would. They always went longer. And you know what's so funny, John? It helped me all that oxytocin. They gave me this beautiful gift by prolonging the hug. So I thought that was just such a beautiful side effect of therapy, of learning this. And it also helped when they would cry. I didn't try to help them stop it soon, which I think is, oh, it's okay. Like that kind of stuff. I let them cry. And it's such a simple thing, but it made a big difference. Feel your feelings. It's okay. You can cry and I'll hold you or I'll be with you. And I learned that I used to overdo it and try to talk to people when they were sad or talk to people when they were upset. But now I'm just with them. Yes. That's hard. Yes, it is hard, when you are a talker. 
John:
Yes, it is. Or a problem solver for people who like to help. 
Host: 
You just said Gold a problem solver. That's what I want to do all the time to solve your problem in a creative way that you haven't thought of. Maybe you don't want that. Maybe you don't want 
John:
Sure. Sometimes people just need somebody to literally sit beside them so that they can feel their feelings because they don't want to feel their feelings by themselves. It's too scary. And for you to be able to just literally be beside them. Maybe your leg is touching their legs a little bit. It really allows them to take the time to feel their feelings. That's magical. It's so important that you've talked about that. I found in my own journey that when I started letting myself feel my feelings later on, it doesn't take me as long because I get to know my feelings better and then I'm able to process my feelings quicker and quicker. And sometimes when a big thing happens, of course, it takes longer. But our emotions, our feelings are just like a muscle. They need to be practiced. So good. So true. We've heard of all the listeners hear so much about the things that you've gone through, of why you're able to help people because of the hardship that you've gone through. I really like to before kind of asking you what we can look forward to in this rest of the podcast. What are some things that bring you joy? Good question. Brownies. Bring me joy. 
John: Oh, wow. 
Host:
I got a brownie thing and coffee and hugs. Being with my family, swimming in the ocean, being in the Sunshine, being outside, being in a forest, being quiet in a forest, animals, being in tune with animals and touching animals and traveling. I love to travel. This pandemic has been tough on me. And my dad was a pilot, so I traveled my whole life. Yes. Wow. What brings you joy? 
John:
Well, I mean, it's so interesting because I think people who are those who are empathic, when we bring others joy, we get joy ourselves as well. And so recently I had an episode talking about delight and how when we delight others, we also become delighted in the same situation. And I am so much of a community person that a really big part of my joy is being able to bring value or love into other people because there's so much of the fullness that comes from that. Outside of that, I think it's really hard when we live our lives with a passion because then, for example, people ask me what my hobbies are sometimes. And I'm like, I don't know how to answer that question because everything that I do brings me so much joy. Fashion is going to be part of my life. And so that's been my work for a very long time. But it's also been my hobby because I just love it. And I love helping people with it. Or right now podcasting and talking to people about their perspectives and helping them maintain their perspectives. That brings me a lot of joy, too. So I'm doing all these things and I feel like my hobbies are essentially what I get to do with my life, and I feel so privileged that way. 
Host:
It's wonderful that you've been able to connect to that and understand what does light you up. And you've been so wonderful to our community. You've been so helpful. And yes, I do enjoy helping even like little bits. When I help people, I get a rush. I enjoy it so much. I like to help people write and edit. I like to help them in almost a therapeutic way. I don't like to just rewrite their stuff. I'm like beyond that now, although I do that for a living, but I like to take something and see what it really wants to say, what the person really wants to say. And I think there's like a delicate kind of balance to that. And I've been doing that a little bit with one of our community members, and it's been so inspiring. I'm just so happy to see where she's going with her book. And I feel like it's still hers. I feel like sometimes when you're younger, maybe you just want to do something for somebody and you get carried away. But now I'm more gentle now, and I love that. I love that helping someone find their voice and also just encouraging people. I love to encourage people probably like sometimes they don't even want the encouragement, but that's okay. I'll try. I have all kinds of ideas about what people can do with their gifts. 
John:
When I hear you say these things, it makes me feel like it's such a shame when people are in a place where they have to hide in their shell, when we present ourselves and who we fully are. I'm seeing how you're impacting the community in various ways. And I'm seeing you light up because you get to do that. And I'm so excited for this podcast because the stories that will be told will give people courage to really be themselves that much more and will allow for them to come out of their shelf and be there, discover their authenticity, and also then start to get to enjoy life at a wholly different level. 
Host:
I love that you said it so well. One of the things I've been thinking so much about and talking about with people is shame. What shame does to us because it was a part of my family, and I see it in my husband's family, part of his family, how it holds people back and how that's why they hide. And so to help people over that, to help people just to make people see that you love them and there's no reason to be ashamed that's really powerful because it holds you back. It's so sad. And now I see it everywhere. Once you learn about something, you just see it everywhere. AnJohn:
d it makes me so sad because it's sort of what Cathy Heller talks about a lot in her course. We are not made to hide. I always think of that Christian song, this Little Light of Mine. 
John:
Yes. 
Host:
Hide it under a Bushel. No, that keeps coming back to me. That's really what all of our podcasts are about is helping people be who they really are because the world needs you to be who you really are. We can't afford to have you hiding under a bushel. Everybody has something unique and special to offer, and that's so exciting to me. 
John:
Yes. And I love that you're not just talking the talk, you're also walking the walk with this. 
Host:
I'm trying. 
John:
We have our days, but you're courageous in putting out this podcast, putting yourself out there, and with no guarantee of anything but that belief in your ability to help heal people. It's really going to go very far. 
Host:
You know what's so fun? This is so different. I don't have a path in my head where it has to go. 
John: That's right. I got a visual as I was waking up this morning. It's such an interesting visual because whenever I worry about the future of the podcast, I always think, no, it's just going to go the way it's supposed to go. And the listeners will tell me what they like and I will pivot and I will deliver what they like and it will feel natural. But this morning I woke up and I said, you know how Kathy Heller and other people who teach abundance, they talk about how it's all right there. It's there already and you just have to be it. Yes. I woke up this morning and I said, it's all right there. It's like next to me, the sparkly cloud that is the future of the plot. It's not like I used to think like, I'm going to do this and then I'm going to do this. It's not like that at all. It's like a sparkly cloud that I'm going to be entering and I'll just go on that magical adventure, whatever that is. And so it's a very different way to think about the future. And I'm a control freak and a planner, so it's amazing, actually that I'm a C students now and not an A student. I'm messy and I'm not perfect. Correct. But Lynn2, this is Lynne, 2.0 or 3.0, you have experienced transformation instead of having to make sure through planning that you get a certain outcome because there is that fear of shame. You're literally saying, I believe in myself and what is going to come and that whatever gets attracted will be the right thing and there is no good or bad that a lot of people can't do. And that's a huge transformation. 
Host:
I think you all helped me do that. I don't know what I would do without my podcast community. I'm not even kidding. Because the minute I would doubt that you guys were like, no, definitely you can do it. I wish the world was like our community. It's so encouraging and so wonderful and supportive. 
Host:
Well, people who are listening to this podcast get to be a part of a community now because they're all going to be in the community of The Storied Human. And I love it as the leader. You are a master encourager and they get to enjoy and bask in your encouragement, which we're going to see what's going to happen from that community as well. 
Host:
It's going to be great. I know it is. I'm their cheerleader. I feel like a cheerleader. 
John:
Yes. It couldn't be a better thing. So let's conclude by letting the listeners know what they can look forward to in the upcoming episodes of this podcast. Well, I'm really excited. I just concluded my interview today with Robin Riback. She's a published author, an old friend of mine who got laid off after a couple of decades of working somewhere and was really adrift. And she remade herself. She refound herself and she talks about how she did it. There's a lot of really good Nuggets of information about how she did that. And I love when stories teach us that. You might not have thought of this or you might want to try this. So that was super great. And then at the line up, I have some people who I have friends who are entrepreneurs and they've been through a lot and how they got through their challenges and what they learned. What I really love is I like to say, once you get to the end, tell me what you wish you'd done differently. Like what can you tell someone starting to save them some grief. That's what I love. So they have some wonderful stories to share, and then I'm going to do sort of like a set of mental health stories. I have a very good friend who has done some documentaries on bipolar disorder and other mental health disorders. And she's shockingly frank about it. And she's so helpful. Not just helpful about spreading awareness, but helpful about telling the rest of us who don't have bipolar how we can handle and deal with people who do. And that it's not a mystery. Yeah, she's wonderful. So I'm really excited. These are not light stories. These are like really good stories. Really something to digest. 
John:
Yeah, they're juicy. I love that they are going to be juicy and interesting and also informative and educational. And it doesn't really get better than that. Yes, that's what we hope for. 
Host:
Well, thank you so much. It's so fun talking to you. Yes. 
John:
Thank you for letting me interview you. So you can share your story in a certain way. And I hope that your story gets told more and more. Because you also are. Are inspirational to so many of us. 
Host:
Well back at you. Thank you, John. 
John:
My pleasure. 
Host:
Bye.