losing our parents - how we have grown and work on our mental health

[00:00] Sunny: Welcome to Three Siblings, a podcast about life after loss and grief. We're the three siblings. Your hosts, Sonny, Tina and Michelle. On the show, we retell our stories to shine a light on tough family situations to help our listeners with issues they may be facing. Let's get into it our alright. Hey everyone. Welcome to the next episode.

[00:28] Michele: This is Sunny, this is Tina, and this is Michelle. Today, we wanted to start off with a quote. Mental health problems don't define who you are. They are something you experience. You walk in the rain and you feel the rain, but importantly, you are not the rain.

[00:44] Sunny: Matt Hague so this is episode seven of season one, which, like we've said, is the memoir stalk season focused on the story of losing our parents and our own story. So this is the last episode and it's going to be on how we've grown and are working on improving our mental health. So the outline for the episode is first, we're going to talk about some of the favorite things from season one and starting the podcast. Second, we'll talk about some of the key lessons takeaways that we try and carry with us after losing our parents. And then lastly, we'll talk about how we manage our mental health. And then at the end of the episode, we'll also dive into how season two will change a little bit compared to season one. Before we get into some of our favorite things from season one, I found something in my notes. It's the speech I actually wrote for my mom's funeral before when she passed away. And so I'll read that as a kid, my mom and I were inseparable. My mom slept in my bedroom until I was in first grade. And even after that, my room had two beds so she could sleep by me. Every night, my mom would read a book to me before bed. It started off with picture books and then chapter books. Soon we alternated every sentence and eventually I read to my mom. There's one important lesson that my mother taught me. It was to give more than you receive. She taught me what the true meaning of unconditional love was. Even as she battled personal demons, she always prioritized me over herself. In high school, when I played football and wrestled, my mom would give me a massage nearly every night after practice, even after a long day at work. Just a few weeks ago, I had my wisdom teeth removed and she would ask me every 20 minutes if I needed anything, bring me water and prepare food for me. But it wasn't just me who my mom showed love and compassion for. She gave back to her community as well. Oftentimes she would make us collect belongings to donate and she would also bring us to volunteer. She gave back to her employees, treating them like family and trying to help them as often as possible. She loved to throw parties. Not only did they bring her joy, but they also brought her friends great joy. At any party she hosted, she always made sure there was enough food and drinks for everyone because she enjoyed seeing everyone have a good time. She was always the center of the party as well. Whether it was her seeing Karaoke or a charismatic laugh, she was always glowing and smiling around her loved ones. While many people choose to receive, my mom chose to give. The impact my mom made on those around her became evident to me when I saw the number of people that came to her visit at the hospital this past year. Over 20 people would come every day, many calling my mother part of their family. My mom touched people's lives. She selflessly gave until she had nothing left. Looking back, it was so easy to take what my mom gave me for granted. I was the beneficiary of my mom's continuous giving, and I was unable to provide for her the same love that she constantly provided me. I hope that I can one day be as kind, loving, generous as my mother was. Depression is a battle that cannot be defeated alone. My sister and I would like to thank everyone for attending, especially during this poor weather. We would like to thank everyone who has been by our mother's side this past year. It has meant so much to us to see that our mother was so loved. We are eternally grateful for the kindness and generosity shown by the people here today. Thank you. I think that was just important to share just because this is a memoir, remembering and looking back on it. And so next we'll talk about some of the favorite things from season one. For me, I want to say the positive feedback has been amazing and this is why we do it. The touching messages and responses that people have given us has just been inspirational.

[04:36] Michele: Yeah, it's been really great to hear feedback from my friends and stuff, especially those who can kind of relate through their loss and stuff. And also to open up about something that we don't really talk about much. Like in everyday life, we kind of keep our grief to ourselves a lot. So I think people have said to me that they're grateful to hear someone talking so openly about it. And that's been good.

[05:05] Sunny: Yeah. And I think it's really helped us grow as siblings and connect more than we have in the past. We've definitely talked about some conversations and things that we've never talked about together.

[05:18] Michele: Yeah, I mean, there's definitely parts of your lives I think that I didn't even realize was happening while everything was going on through all the deaths, I didn't realize that that was happening to you. Like little things. We never really had discussed it, so some of it was the first time, even for me, to hear your perspective on things and what you went through as you were dealing with your own version of grief.

[05:47] Sunny: That's something we'll talk about later on in some of the takeaways that we take away. But there is no really right way to grieve. Everyone has their own way to grieve, and that's what I loved about hearing each of our point of view perspectives, because we all did grieve in our own different way, and we are all different people, but we are all connected by the same story and what happened, and our growing healing process has been different. But I've been so lucky to have both of you along my grieving growing journey.

[06:21] Michele: Yeah, I feel the same way. I feel very lucky to have you and Tina with me on this journey of life.

[06:29] Sunny: Okay, and so we just talked about grieving. Satina, are there any of your favorite things that you've learned?

[06:38] Tina: I guess one of the takeaways from this podcast is being a little bit more open because I normally only share this stuff with my close friends and obviously you guys, so this is forcing me to come out of my shell.

[06:55] Sunny: Yeah, that's true. You are definitely the most reserved out of us and quiet on talking about things like this. And so I'm thankful that you have been supportive of us and been willing to speak up. I think that's an important theme of the podcast, and it's so powerful to hear you speaking up when typically you're the reserved one. So, once again, thank you for being a part of this journey with us.

[07:24] Tina: Yeah, it's been nice to be able to do this with you guys.

[07:28] Sunny: Next, we'll move on to key lessons and takeaways. Like I mentioned before, there really is no one way to grieve, and I think it's important when you're a part of someone's life when they're grieving, is that you don't judge them for the way that they grieve. Oftentimes it's continuously changing, it's continuously evolving, but you just have to be there if someone's grieving and be a part of that with them and be okay with the way they process things.

[08:04] Michele: I think in general, there's no underlying kind of structure for grieving, especially in American culture beyond the funeral and the service. Like they say, if you're sad after six months or a year after someone dies, then you're allowed to be diagnosed with clinical depression. I mean, don't quote me on that, but it's something that I personally find to be kind of ridiculous, because I think that there's just not enough support for people who grieve here and everyone hides it. And so when we see someone who's very emotional, our instant reaction is to console them so that they're not being publicly emotional anymore. And I talk about it in my Point of View episode, but that book, The Smell of Rain on Dust by Martine Praktel, it's the first book where I really kind of read a book entirely dedicated to the different ways of grief and how other cultures have been doing it for so long. And they welcome open expressions of grief. They welcome the crying, the yelling, like these things that we would consider someone to be crazy for nowadays in our society. So I guess I just wanted to say that it's so important to find someone that you can cry to and also for yourself to be able to cry, to be able to cry to yourself and to yell and to write it out or whatever, be expressive about it, and it's totally okay.

[09:41] Sunny: Yeah, I agree. I think one common thing I like to say is that it's okay to not be okay. That's a lesson that I'm trying to continue to work on. When I was dealing with the passing of our parents, I was 19 or 20, I was a guy in college. I had to put on this image that I was this strong guy. I was cool, everything was okay. But I think it was more important to know that it's okay to not be okay. And I think by putting on that image, it sort of tricked some of my friends to thinking that okay, he's handling it well. He doesn't need as much help as we thought he did grieving, because he's putting on this image that everything's okay. And I think if I was more vocal about it with my friends, being able to have those conversations earlier on would have been very helpful in my mental health journey.

[10:37] Michele: Yeah, I know what you mean. I think it kind of comes a little bit from our family too. Just like you talked about how you learn from dad, like, just keep going, just keep working, focus on school. And so I feel like similar. I mean, definitely in our society nowadays, women are more encouraged to express emotions, in some aspects at least, and men are less so encouraged to do so. But we all get to it eventually, right? I hope at least we get to a point of healing and awareness, even if it is later than we wanted it to be.

[11:23] Sunny: Yeah, I agree. And one of the points I put is that vulnerability. To me, it's like a muscle. You have to train it. You have to get more comfortable with it. When I came up with this podcast idea, it honestly made me really anxious. I mean, right now, the palms of my hands are sweaty. But through conversations with my therapist, he's noticed that it's become a lot easier and more natural for me to talk more vulnerably about conversations like this. And like I said, it's a muscle that needs to be trained. It's hard to do, but I encourage people to get uncomfortable and keep working on it, because the more you work on it, the more it becomes second nature, the easier it is to be vulnerable and the more you're able to help others see that it needs to be a part of normal conversation.

[12:19] Michele: That's great. I'm glad to hear that you feel more comfortable being vulnerable.

[12:23] Sunny: Yeah. Thank you. And Michelle, I think you've been always someone that I've looked up to on their ability to be vulnerable and have these types of conversations.

[12:35] Michele: I think that's one thing about me that moves very differently from the world is that I think I've always generally maybe not with our parents always, but the people I've sought out to be my friend group. And obviously with you guys, I always am ready to talk about that stuff. To me, it's weird because it's not uncomfortable. But I think also, you know, I've had a very personal, long practice of like, I have had turbulent emotions growing up and learning to be okay with them instead of trying to suppress them and learning to ride them and understand them. And also how they help me in my because I'm an artist, I'm a musician, learning how they assist me in my creativity. I'm always down for these tough combos. And I think that there's like, a balancing act right. Of you can also be too vulnerable to the wrong people. And wisdom is all about knowing where to put your strengths and weaknesses and what they are. But I really appreciate hearing that from you, Sonny. Thank you.

[13:48] Sunny: Of course. I learned so much from you. But I think that's a good point that you say there's a wisdom on knowing how vulnerable you can be with someone. Because I don't want to come off too strong with someone I don't know or just make it seem like I'm emotionally dumping on someone. Because obviously the theme and topics of this podcast can be difficult, and some people might not be in the right moment or at the right mindset at the time to be talking about conversations like this. So if I'm out and about, I can't just randomly ring up a conversation like this. You have to understand the time and place and who you're talking to.

[14:32] Tina: Yeah. For me, it's quality over quantity of people that I reach out to. And I think it really helps me to confide in people who have also dealt with grief or something of the sort. So I found, like, a really good group of friends to lean on when everything happened.

[14:50] Sunny: Yes. That's great. And building that support system and knowing who you can constantly rely on, I.

[14:59] Michele: Think that's why podcasts are popular, because you kind of have an idea of what you're going into when you're about to listen to a podcast. And so there's already this consent to hear about things like in reference to our podcast, which can be very touchy and heavy subjects. People are listening because they're in a space and ready to receive and to hear about these things. Whereas I'm sure we've all had an experience or been that person where you meet a stranger and they just start emotionally dumping on you, and you're like, I don't even know who you are. I don't know how to help you. I'm sorry. Maybe they just needed an ear at that moment. But yeah, I guess navigating vulnerability on its own is definitely, like a skill, and it takes wisdom to make it a way that it's like a connection and not always just like one sided or something.

[15:58] Tina: Yeah. I don't know about you guys. I think I've talked to you, Michelle, about this. But I lie all the time to people about my family situation. If I'm I don't know, like, in an Uber, they start asking questions. Are you from here? I'll be like, yeah. They're like, well, where's your family from? I'm like, China. And they're like, do your parents live there still? And I'm like, no, my parents live here because I'm not going to tell this Uber driver, no, both of my parents are dead. So I just kind of, like, make up a scenario in which they're still alive to just make people feel more comfortable.

[16:37] Michele: I know what you because I don't know. I understand that it comes from a good place, but I don't really like the like, oh, I'm so sorry. I don't know. I do the same thing, especially in the same situation that you just mentioned. Like, Ubers and stuff are like random people. It's like, oh, well, I know I'm not going to probably ever part of.

[16:57] Tina: They'Re never going to see again.

[16:58] Michele: Yeah. Or even honestly, when I first meet a person, if I feel like I'm not going to see them ever again, I pretty much have always lied at this point. I've been like, yeah, my parents live in Texas. I just act as if they're still doing the same thing they were doing kind of before **** got really bad. I'm like, yeah, they work in Houston. I grew up in Houston. Like, most of my family's there, blah, blah, blah. They're from this part of China, and then that's it. Dennin doesn't have to go any more than that. So I feel you.

[17:35] Tina: Yeah. It's not worth the mental energy for me or I don't feel like putting that on some stranger who I don't know and ruining their day.

[17:47] Michele: Yeah.

[17:48] Sunny: I'm at this point, I guess if it's an Uber or something like that, I really don't want to get that full story. Yeah, they live in Houston and that's that.

[18:00] Michele: I wonder how many people out there are just lying. What if the Uber drivers lying got to us, too, about their lives?

[18:06] Tina: Oh, my gosh. I used to always go to this nail salon with mom in Sugar Land, and I remember going there after she died, and they're like, oh, my gosh, we haven't seen your mom in a while. And I was just like, oh, she's doing well, Dang.

[18:22] Michele: Yeah.

[18:24] Tina: It's kind of like we're living in, like, a little fantasy.

[18:26] Michele: Yeah, that's hard.

[18:29] Tina: I mean, it's not that hard for me. It'd be way harder if I told them about it.

[18:33] Michele: In a situation like that, I think I would actually be honest because just because they had a connection with her and if she was, like, a frequent, if she was a regular, you do develop.

[18:43] Tina: I went there, like, twice a year. I don't know how we didn't.

[18:48] Michele: Yeah, I know.

[18:50] Tina: It was when I was living in Savannah, Georgia, and I would come back to Texas, like, every once in a while.

[18:55] Michele: Do you feel awkward, though? I feel like I feel so awkward when I lie still. I bet you they can tell that something's wrong. Even though I'm just trying to keep it as pleasant as possible, I have a hard time. I always try to change the combo after. I'm always like, oh, well, where are you from? What do you do? What do you like about New York? Like, stuff like that, so that they don't have to keep pressing me about family stuff.

[19:20] Tina: My lies don't go that deep. I'm not going to be like, oh, yeah, she went to the grocery store. It's pretty much like, oh, yeah, she's doing well. And that's it. They usually don't ask more questions. It is a surface level I don't know, relationship.

[19:33] Michele: Very chatty. Uber drivers who I know who their kids are. I know what they do for fun. They tell me everything. I don't know.

[19:42] Sunny: Yeah, sometimes, seriously, you're going to dig deeper? I just keep it simple. Yeah, they're from Houston. They're in Houston. And then keep digging. It's like, jeez, okay.

[19:53] Michele: People are curious.

[19:54] Sunny: Maybe just saying what actually happened, like, a brief summary will shut them up, and they're like, ****. Yeah, I guess next topic is how we are managing our mental health. For me, after everything happened, it was continuing to keep on the facade that everything was okay. I didn't need any help. I hadn't been seeing a therapist yet, wasn't taking any medicine, and that was just a ticking time bomb for me. I think Michelle remembers seeing me one time. I went on a cruise with a bunch of my friends after and after, just my mental health was just terrible. I was just not able to function. Yeah, I'm sure you remember that.

[20:43] Michele: Well, there's definitely a reason why you all were able to function, but I don't know if we should talk about it on the podcast.

[20:53] Sunny: Yeah. And so when I went back to school, my anxiety was just so bad that I couldn't function. I would just be sitting in class. I'd have anxiety attacks almost every day. I'd be sweating. I wouldn't know what was going on. And I remembered my friend started seeing a psychiatrist, and so she recommended me to him. And that's when I started taking medicine. I was on antidepressants. I am on antidepressants and mood stabilizers. And that was a pivotal moment in my life that really helped me start getting things better under control.

[21:30] Michele: Yeah, that's great. I do remember when you started taking antidepressants and mood stabilizers and it seems like it's helped you a lot.

[21:38] Sunny: Yeah. And through the psychiatrist, I started seeing a therapist. And I think having that objective view on things going on in your life is really important. And even when you seem to be in the highest of moments of your life, I think it's important to continue to have that objective view and opinion because you never know, things can change quickly. And for me, it's easy to think, okay, my life seems great right now, maybe I should stop seeing therapy. But continuing to have that opinion and different perspective on life is important for me.

[22:19] Michele: Definitely. I agree. I mean, I've been in therapy for a long time now, and I really, really love my therapist. And I think it's a good frame of reference for them to know what you're like when you're doing well so that when you're not doing well, they can maybe see the signs of you going down or whatever. Because they now know like, okay, this is what Sonny looks like when he's high functioning and he's maintaining his mental health well, and he's taking care of himself. And then a couple of weeks later, if something happens or you get triggered, I feel like it's good for them to kind of see all sides of you, not just when you're super down in the dumps. Although that's usually when I feel like anyone would seek out therapy in the first place. But I think they have a lot of wisdom that they can share with you, especially from observing you for so long.

[23:12] Sunny: Yeah, that's a great point. They can maybe see signs that even when you're doing well, that are leading to maybe something that could trigger you or cause you to feel more down. Yeah, and for me as well, some people always say to meditate or do something along those lines, but for me, it really turned into running. We've talked about this before, but yeah, running sort of helps me keep my mind off things and reset my brain almost as I just run for 20 to 30 minutes. And it really helps me distract myself.

[23:49] Michele: That's great, Tina. You work out a lot.

[23:52] Tina: Yeah, I go on like, a long walk every day. It's very therapeutic and relaxing. And we have so many dogs. They really enjoy it, too.

[24:02] Michele: Yeah, you have to go on so many walks just for the dogs even.

[24:06] Tina: Yeah. But I guess it took me a while to get I'm at a pretty peaceful point in my life right now. I think when the parents passed, I was partying a lot, like, going out very often, and I'm finally snapped out of that phase in my life and more of a homebody now, which I really enjoy. I don't know, I think we all kind of partied quite a bit when.

[24:36] Michele: Oh my God, everything happened, which I.

[24:37] Tina: Think is pretty natural.

[24:38] Michele: I still have a picture of us at a bar, like, I think the day that mom passed away, it was us three at Poison Girl in Houston. Yeah, we definitely all partied really hard.

[24:56] Tina: But I don't know, we were at that age too. I think everyone else around us was partying very hard as well.

[25:03] Michele: No, for sure we were like grieving, but everyone else was partying just as hard. And they had not just experienced, they're.

[25:11] Tina: Like, let me buy you a drink, let me buy you a drink. I have to buy you drink. So a lot of people were buying me drinks all the time for like two years.

[25:20] Michele: It's how people learn to cope here too, though. Like, alcohol is so part of it.

[25:24] Tina: I definitely appreciated it.

[25:26] Sunny: Yeah, alcohol is definitely a way to numb. And I talk about this in therapist often because, yeah, I was in college, obviously, when everything happened, and that's just a part of the lifestyle of being in college. But I'm not going to be able to word it exactly how my therapist words it. But when we drink, we get this feeling of comfort almost, because when we drink, we will always get that same feeling. So we constantly turn to alcohol as a way of comfort because it's a feeling we know what we're getting into, whereas when we have to actually deal with our depression, anxiety and grief, that feeling is constantly changing. So we rely on alcohol and drug as a way of comfort, almost definitely.

[26:18] Michele: I could see that. I mean, it changes your literally, alcohol is like a depressant and all these things change your perspective on things in that moment when you're under the influence. So I can see how it's so comforting.

[26:34] Sunny: Yeah, and I think that's been a part of the journey. I mean, recently I did 50 days of no alcohol and since then I've been seriously limiting my alcohol just because I think it's important to be able to just be at peace with yourself and feel those feelings that I've been trying to run away from.

[26:56] Michele: Yeah, I mean, they're scary feelings and I think people are more afraid to feel than I don't know, it's hard. But I also haven't drink for a month now, but it didn't come about as a like, I'm not like, trying to not drink. Like, I don't feel any temptation to drink, which is weird because I've drank pretty regularly since I turned 21. I've probably gone like months without drinking, but not that often. So I think I did quit during the pandemic because I'm a social drinker, so I never really drink at home by myself. But as of now, I haven't been drinking and I feel good. I just don't want to be drunk. And I think it's probably because the hangovers are starting to get so bad that I'm like, I can't suffer like that anymore. The drinking itself is nice, but it's always the next day that's so bad that I just don't want to feel that anymore.

[28:01] Tina: Yeah, but I think for special occasions and stuff, it's still nice. Yeah, I definitely don't go out as much as I used to.

[28:10] Michele: Yeah, I mean, being a DJ, I'm around alcohol and I've Djed like this past Friday, and I didn't drink at all. And they had really good mocktails actually, at the bar that I DJ at. So I was just drinking those and I'm like, these are delicious. One was like mango juice and mango juice, lime and jalapeno honey. And it was so good. I really liked it.

[28:34] Sunny: Yeah, for me it's using alcohol less as a crush. And like you said, special occasions and things like that. I'm trying to be more accepting and celebrate the special occasion, but it can't be just drowning my pain and sorrows away anymore. It needs to be smart and with the reason.

[28:54] Michele: Yeah, well, I guess I will finish up this whole section by saying I manage my mental health, I think through just a series of experiments that I've done over the last few years, which is to get a lot of sleep, to definitely not binge drink. I journal when I feel like there's a lot on my mind, like I do my duolingo every day. I keep little promises to myself that I started like two years ago and keeping these consistent small practices like journaling writing. Oh, I write a list of gratitude almost every night. Sometimes I forget, but trying to write five things or a few things I'm grateful for every night before I go to bed and walking a lot. Living in New York helps a lot with that. And also kind of like having a peaceful mentality, which is like choosing to try not to get involved with things that have a lot of drama. I think these little things have added up to where I feel pretty stable. And feeling stable is no longer a new thing. But I remember when I first started feeling stable, like feeling peaceful when you've only been in chaos for so long, it's scary because it's like, what is this? Am I bored? Why is there nothing going on? And I've had to really rewire myself to realize that that nothingness, that every day it's like, you're fine. You get to pick what you need to do today and you do it. I'm like, oh, that's like what people want. That's peace. And it was scary at first because I was like, oh my God. I feel like for the first month I was like, something's going to go wrong, or like, I'm going to **** something up or someone's going to do something. And now I'm just like, even if something happens, I know I've developed these habits to where I can manage almost anything. I feel like that right now. So it. Feels good to be where I am.

[30:59] Sunny: That's a great place to be. I'm happy that that's how you feel right now.

[31:03] Michele: Thank you.

[31:04] Sunny: I actually have thought about that point before where it's like when there's moments of silence that's okay. Sometimes it makes me feel uncomfortable. I think, should I be doing something or working on something? But sometimes it's okay to just enjoy that moment of silence and just take it in.

[31:24] Michele: Absolutely. And one cycle I've noticed that's true in my life is because I'm a creative, my work comes and flows. But in the past, when I was younger, if it wasn't flowing out of me, I would feel so guilty and I would be like, god, I feel worthless, like I'm not producing anything. Am I losing it? Am I falling into a depression I'll never recover from? And now every time I even start to think that way, I just tell myself, like, look, you're resting because in the next three weeks, you're going to start going at it furiously again, or some huge project is going to come to you, and you're going to need the energy that you're building up right now for that moment. So let this moment of rest just be what it is. It's just rest and it's okay. And I still struggle with that, but I think I've gotten more comfortable. I'm able to turn off the anxiety faster by reminding myself my schedule isn't like a normal nine to five or whatever. The way that I work, it does require longer stretches of rest, but that's because I often marathon through a work session or a project or something.

[32:31] Sunny: Yeah, that's a great way to put it. I guess that'll wrap up our episode. Today, we talked about some of the favorite things from season one, the memoir style season, why we started the podcast, and what we've learned from that. Next, we talked about some of the key lessons and takeaways we learned, which included, there's no one way to grieve. Vulnerability is like a muscle that needs to be trained. It's okay to not be okay and to most importantly, build a support system. And then finally we talked about how we currently work and manage our mental health. And so this is the end of season one. All three of us want to say thank you for all the positive feedback and messages and the written reviews that have been left on Apple podcasts. It means the world and does not go unnoticed. We're so thankful, and that's the inspiration for why we keep doing it.

[33:27] Michele: Yeah. Thank you, everyone.

[33:28] Sunny: Yeah, thank you so much. And for season two, this is when our podcast will turn more conversational. Every episode, we'll be covering different mental health topics, and for a lot of these topics, we'll be bringing on guests. So we're really excited for our first episode of season two. It will be on depression and suicide in the gay community. We have a really passionate guest who shares his story, and we're really excited for this one. After we record the episode, he said that it changed his life, so we're really excited to share that one for you. I want to say thank you again for being a part of this journey with us. So thank you.

[34:07] Michele: Thank you. See you in season two.

[34:09] Sunny: You.

[34:29] Michele: Thank you for tuning in to the three siblings. We know we discuss some really tough topics on the show, so we want to make sure you've got the resources you need. If you're going through a tough time, dialing nine. Eight eight will bring you to a suicide and crisis phone line. If you want to support the work we're doing on the show, the best thing to do is to leave a review on Apple podcasts. It might help someone else who needs to hear this and find this show. You can also follow us on social media at Three Siblings podcasts on Instagram and at Siblings podcasts on Twitter. We are so excited to share more stories with you and our next episode.