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In order to get a reaction Not talk about the things that actually mean
something to you. And, yeah, it's gonna repel some people, but they
were gonna be a pain in the ass anyways.
Welcome or welcome back to Too Legitimate to Quit. Instantly
actionable small business strategies with a pop culture
spin. I am your host, Annie p Ruggles, and my
guest today is the delightful and insightful, Caitlin
Penney. Caitlin, a graphic designer since 2010,
founded her own business, Copper Theory Creative, in
2016. At the age of 24, she
was thrilled to realize that her dream of being her own boss,
a goal that she believed was worth fighting for. Copper
Theory Creative has grown into a full service branding agency
and design agency, servicing over 100
businesses since its option in 2016. The
agency considers itself a partner in business, helping
clients amplify their brands professionally To reflect their
business visions. Caitlyn's achievements include
receiving a young professional of the year award and
being featured in ShoutOut Arizona, Canvas Rebel,
and United Colors of Design Magazine. She was also
appointed as the newest Arts commissioner for the city of Chandler,
Arizona and has been nominated for the Chandler Chamber of
Commerce Sell Business of the Year award. Outside of her
professional life, Caitlin enjoys spending time with her pit
Sell, Herbie, watching Harry Potter or listening to
true crime podcasts. My beloved, Caitlin
Penny, I am so excited to have you here today, not only to talk
about a pop culture piece that I just adore so much,
Well, just because I just love your brain and can't wait to ask you the
question, what do small business owners need to focus on this
week? Personal branding. Oh.
Tell me more personal branding.
How so? Sell, as prince wise, I own a company, a
marketing company The focuses on that specifically. And there's
The key to being a successful small business owner, and it is just
to be authentic. Surprise. It's so hard. I
know. God. If only on on this show I had
ever interviewed anyone authentic. Oh, that would
be so dumb. No. But you know what? I think
that's so huge because, like, a lot of the people we hang out
with are pretty darn
authentic In their day to day life. And so there's almost
this process that I know you do
through your work, and I certainly do through Quirkworks with
With giving people permission to
actually do something with that authenticity because people are like,
oh, I'm authentic. Well yeah. Like but are you
marketing authentically? Because if you're showing
the authenticity once people are inside your paywall,
That's not really an authenticity play, is it? So I love that you're
like, can we extend that out into the brand a little
further? Could we make that authenticity A little bit more client
facing because I think a lot of people are like, authenticity. That's frou
frou stuff. Why would I care? And then people that hang out with us are
like, Oh, I'm already authentic. I guess I just I'm okay Not. And it's like,
no. You have to mark it authentically. You have to
brand authentically. You have to leverage your Authenticity. So
how do you see authenticity kind of go
awry? Well, I think that, you
know, everyone's had a Facebook for about, like, 15 years now or something like The,
something insane. And I think there was a disconnect
And okay. Let's separate our personal account Andrew then let's do our
business account. And while that works in some certain situations, I
really think that In most cases, it doesn't need to be separated
anymore. You can choose what personal aspects of yourself
you are sharing with people. Like, if you don't wanna put your kids on social
media, don't wanna put your kids social media. Right. But it doesn't mean that you
can share your yoga schedule or whatever makes you
happy. Or the fact that you have a kid, you don't have to
put. Right. Like, I just applied for
a a, networking group, and they were like, this will not impact your application,
but It may affect, like, what pairings we
put you in. Do you have kids? And I was like, Not. But I
understand why they're asking that question. Right? So, like Right. I don't have
to put I don't have kids, but, like, I don't have to put pictures of
my kids on the Internet to self identify as a business owner
mother If I were such a thing, which I am not.
Right. Right. Exactly. And I think when you combine the both
of those, especially on social media, You share a piece of
personal, a piece of what I call a date your life of Andrew that can
be anything behind the scenes to make you know, just share what it
takes to do this And then you can talk about your business. People will
remember you as the dog lover or the mom that
sells houses. You know? Yeah. Exactly. They'll be like the chick. What
was the chick with the dogs? Like, how often do you go to a party
and you're like, the one who had the really great jacket. You don't remember the
name, But you remember the jacket, and you're like,
well, that's not gonna help me at all. So then you have to call all
your friends and be like, the one with the jacket. And then somebody, undoubtedly, is
gonna go, Oh, they're so and so. Okay. Riley?
We know. But we don't know unless we're standing out.
At networking groups, I'm known as the girl with the hat and the floral jacket
most of the time. It's usually a floral blazer instead of my Leslie Knope
Blazer. I met you in a
miniskirt and sky high heels.
Yep. They were awesome. Not there's a
pin of Van Gogh in his ear on my jacket. Separated as they
should be. As they should be for
the art historians amongst us.
But, you know, I think He's not today's pop culture
topic, but that's nothing if yeah. One way to
show your affection authentically. Yeah. Chop off your ear and
Mail it to a sex worker. I sure.
I feel like I now I have to be, like, too legitimate to quit, does
not condone self harm in this way, Or mailing any kind
of body parts to anyone. To the official acquire
your body parts to begin with. Official disclaimer. Please
do not Mail anything to me, to Caitlyn, to
anyone involved with either of us. We don't even want you to email that
shit. Not. Thank you. Please seek
immediate mental Sell, care. Right? But
but, you know, there's I think there's something to that there, which is so goofy,
But but true in that there's a powerful
way to show up authentically, and there's a way to show
up Authentically, that robs you of power. So in
an extreme case, we could say
cutting off your ear And mailing it
to someone for attention is authentic, yes, but
authenticity that robs you of power. So how do
we show up authentically in a way that
magnetizes and amplifies our power?
Well, I think that, you know, to begin with, you started your business for a
reason. You have that why, but you also have a why on the other side
of things that fills your cup that's not work. Andrew
so when you show up and share those personal aspects about yourself,
those characteristics, that's what that's
what That's what makes people, you know, invest in you, and
they choose you because of the emotion and experience that you
give them Not It didn't justify the cost later. But it's
boundaried. What I hear in what you're saying is, like, it's
boundaried. Right? And going into today's pop
culture topic, like, Sales, Friends, and Work, Work is
3rd. Right? Right?
And and think about, like, people that we think is kind of, like,
soulless, faceless cogs, like, Government
workers, every single person on parks and
rec has their own brand. Every
single one for good or for Sell.
Some of the brands are on lock. Some of the brands are a hot
mess. What is your name, Gary Gergich? Figure it
out. But, you know, even Leslie
Knope, who is so Completely addicted
to her job and a workaholic and proud of it
reminds everybody, it's Sales, Friends and
work. Work is 3rd. Right?
But she's but she's known for the waffles and the friends.
Absolutely. And the roller skates. And the roller skates and the
filibuster. Right? But the but, you
know, I think it's I I We're only 7 minutes in, so I'm kind of
amazed that I've already thrust this into the pop culture topic. But we're both excited
about it, so let's just lean in. But, you know, the
Looking at personal branding from the lens of Parks and Rec is just too good
not to dive into in that, like, even little Sebastian
has a brand. Like Sebastian.
Little Sebastian is the heart of Pawnee.
Mhmm. Whereas, like, I'm from Missouri. You think I didn't
see tiny ponies, show ponies, shoveling ponies growing up?
Sure. They existed. True is Ben doesn't get
it at all. Oh. So Sell like a Not
people kind of thing. You know? Abso freaking
lutely not. And and then on the go I mean, little Sebastian is the perfect
example because then on the flip side, Ron
Swanson, who is not affected by anything, we see
him cry exactly 3 times in the entire
series. And the one where he cries the
most is at the funeral for little freaking
Sebastian with with Ben, Who's The softy is
like, you what? What?
By the end, he comes around. And so I think that I mean, First
personal branding and the people that you're
well, who are your people? There's a different process Andrew there's a
different flow for each one of them. You have, like, the Totally. The onboard
people from the get go, and then you have the people that need a little
push. Yeah. And then you have these people who are just like,
Ron. You know, it's just Ron. He only
ever cries about steak and ponies. Like, alright. Okay.
That's fine. That's fine. Right. But it's but it's okay because
everyone that loves little Sebastian is proud to buy into the brand.
Mhmm. The littlest park. Like, they had to buy into
the brand of that tiny ass ridiculous
park. They had to be like, we want this park. We know it's
tiny. We know it's kind of stupid. It matters to us.
Let's get this done. Right? But but
every single person in that office, maybe
even every person in Pawnee, I'm looking at you Sue's salads,
Has a personal brand. I think that's part of what makes
them all such strong. Memorable.
Memorable, Lovable characters.
Mhmm. Andrew I it's just fascinating how they, you
know, all work together still and all, you know, Play a different role
to accomplish 1 goal usually Andrew definitely all
different perspectives. But I think authenticity,
To go back to, like, when does authenticity go awry, like,
where does personal branding go awry? I think we have the
incredible example of Tom Haverford,
Because everyone around him is like, your ideas
don't make any sense, Tom. And he's like, no.
It's amazing. It's like right? Like, what is it
entertainment 720? And it's like, What is that
even what is that even mean, dude?
Like, that's these people that come to me with these buzzwords, and they're, like,
So domain expertise specific that I'm like, cool.
You sound really smart and really legitimate, and I have no
idea what you're talking about. And I'm your target market, so that's a
problem. Like, that's entertainment 720. Like, we have
basketball stars and hot tubs. No one knows what we're selling, And our
logo doesn't make sense. Okay. Grab an iPad
on the way out. Yep. Exactly. And so I think
that, you know, You started this. You're passionate about it.
You're killing it. You have a great message. And then, you know, why
not get really good at that one thing first And then do
other things. I mean, Tom is like super innovative Andrew he always
has the next best idea. No The gets it most of the
time, But he's determined. He never gives up.
There's also an idea about toxic partnership in in the
cautionary tale of Tom Haverford. Like, y'all, if you have a
John Ralphio in your life, get them out. Oh,
sure. And don't date his sister. And the last date is
money, please, sister.
Money, please. Money, please. I freaking
love her. But, you know, like because Tom is the one of
many, but Tom is the entrepreneur of the show. And so
it's funny to see him
fail so often that failure kind becomes
his kink and his brand in the end. But in the meantime,
all he was ever wanting to do in any of Tom's
Iterations, rebrands, pivots,
whatever we wanna call it, It was always just whatever
he thought the flashiest thing of the moment is. So, like, he knew a cologne
guy was coming, and so suddenly Who had to come up with Tommy Fresh. And
it's like, That's that's not actually you
innovating, Tom. That's you trying to be
stick. And sometimes we get those things confused. Right? We get
confused between true opportunity, true
innovation, And just trends and low hanging
fruit, I guess? Right. And is when
even when it comes to trends too, If it doesn't match and you're not
trying to dance on TikTok, then why are you? People can
see right through that Andrew they know instantly it's just Reading
body language, they know instantly that you are not comfortable with this.
So how are you gonna get the message of the point across when you don't
even feel confident in what you're doing? You're just
throwing spaghetti at a wall. Well, it's like watching people
really, really, really They tried to get
a trending sound to work for their content that day on
TikTok, and I'm like or you could've just used your own
words. Right? How
many contracts do you just not get because of that? Right. You took 3
hours to do something on TikTok. I mean, take a nap, eat a Andrew.
Brett, take a walk, get some vitamin d, hug
a friend. Like, come on.
Anything is better The, like, well, how do I get it to line up? It's
like, don't. Don't get it to line up. That is a trend, Tom
Haverford.
Riley? But I think that that's important because I think it's also
Parks is a really great example of the fact that even if you
have a brand that is very much
anchored in your personal brand, It never just
touches you. The people that love you buy into your brand. The people that
know you buy into your Andrew, they understand
What's important to you? So spoilers for Parks and
Rec, which came out, like, 20 years ago, but it's not
surprising that Anne could make Leslie's perfect wedding
dress. She's her best friend. Right. It's
so special. Oh, and Right. And, like, She knows what's on
brand. They know that the mural matters to Leslie because Leslie's been
consistent Mhmm. And vocal.
Right? And so, like, if The more you're true
to your personal brand, yes, it's easier for people Who find
you and either love you or be repelled by you, little Sebastian.
But it's also easier for other people to amplify and enhance
The brand with you, for you, which you, as an employer,
understand. You're running an agency. So Right.
Your clients see some of you, but more of The,
but they're still seeing them as an extension of you. So how do
you Sell The process of
opening a personal brand up to involve more
people. How has that unfolding been for you?
Well, I think that it's definitely been interesting because there was a
1 man show up until last year, and then I went from, like, 1 to
8. So that was, you know, quick. Mhmm. Mhmm. So
in body and we work remotely Who. So that gives us an extra
decision. Fun. Culture. Right. And so
it's it's, it's been interesting to see how we can connect everyone and, you know,
do something that includes everyone at the same time besides a
contract, besides a project. And I think
one of the reservations that a lot of people have, especially with
mixing The Personal and business brand together is the
controversial topics. If you have something to say about it, say
something. If you don't, then don't. You don't have to respond to every
single thing Tom have referred. Yeah. Yeah. In
order to get a reaction, Talk about the things that actually mean
something to you. And, yeah, it's gonna repel some people, but
they're never they were gonna be a pain in the ass anyways. Yes.
Yes. Yes. Absolutely. They're either
gonna take ownership and collaboration energy into it
or they're not. And you have to too. You either have to allow
people to come in or you don't. Right? And you made a conscious
choice to go from 1 to 8 In remote in the middle of a
post pandemic pandemic post pandemic that ends and
never ends all the time. Right? It is. Riley. And it took you know, I
didn't get it right the first time either. I there I think you
should definitely start with just Making sure that there's a
vibe, a good vibe between everyone and you if it just like a
networking event. If you're not feeling it in the gut, then just don't.
And you're usually right. Yeah. Because there's a difference between someone
on your team challenging you, which we want, And
someone on your team being not for you or not for the mission, which
is basically a saboteur intentionally or not. Right?
Like, Not that they're necessarily sitting there being like, I will
destroy copper theory. They're not
doing that, but also at the same point, like, You're on the team or you're
off the team Mhmm. Kind of a thing?
Yep. Right. Oof. And
so yeah. Mhmm. Oof. Right. But
you're right. Like, if it's not gonna vibe, it's not gonna vibe.
And We're all too busy to babysit
bad fits. Right. I mean, if yeah. If it's not part of the
puzzle, then You Not the wrong puzzle.
Oh, we all can't say. If it's not part
of the puzzle, you got the wrong puzzle.
That's awesome. I love that little sound bite. Thank you so much.
But no. It's true. I mean, it's If it's not for you, it's
not for you.
And if it is for you, then you have to Chase and prioritize
it. Not chase like you have to be desperate for it, but you have to
put applied and intentional action toward the
procurement of that Goal, thing Right.
Person, whatever it may be. That's why everyone is trying
to niche down Just something. Mhmm. I mean, you should be have a target
market. I mean, don't tell me you don't because don't lie to me.
But you should know what that is.
You Would fight me later about that one. Be like, y'all
don't get just don't don't fight Caitlyn about niching. Y'all
just don't. It's true.
You just don't know who they are yet. Sorry. Mic drop. I'll leave.
Nope. Stay. Stay. I think
though but if you do when you do do that, you know more about the
people that you're helping. You know more about your people. Know more about your
team. And the more data points you can collect, the better that you're
gonna be at business. Yes. Yes.
Absolutely. A zillion percent. Yeah. She
knows how to appeal to the people of Pawnee, not the people of Eagleton.
Oh, Eagleton. If anyone is listening right now
from Fictional Eagleton, Indiana, we dislike
you. We dislike you Eagletonians. Right? But,
no, that's true too. She is the She is.
And we see this in American politics all the time. That's my
guy. That's not my guy. That's my guy. Right?
Like, Pawneeans, Love or hate. Leslie,
Eagletons are just like, we don't even have to even look at her. Right? But
it should be more repellent. The people that Leslie is gonna
connect with most are the people that also love and
care about their community and love and care that that community
is. Right? That's The same thing.
Their values are their values. Yep. Right? But, like, that's the same thing. It's,
like, Every single person on Parks Rec is Parks and Rec is a great example
of who is not for someone. Like, you wanna tell me
Mouse Rat, the Andrew gonna have international
appeal? Of course, they're not. I have
that shirt. I can't even handle Chris pat Pratt
in his current form. Like, I would have much rather had mouse
rat. Give me Andy back. Andy, give us
Andy back. Right? We miss you. Ugh. Let's talk about someone who
pivoted away from what their marketability was. But, Anyway, that's fine.
That's fine. Right. But, like, mouse rat is a polarizing
band. Right. The
Pawnee goddesses is a polarizing group.
The Swansons, even more so. Right? Like, it's it
just It just is, and and
they allow that to be. But you're right. Okay. So what
is everybody's baggage with niching Or
niching if we're being Eagletonians. So Pawneeans say
niching. Eagletonians say niching.
What's what's the baggage with either? Why do people fight
this so much? Well, I
think in the beginning, you may not know
what that specific niche is, and that's okay. No.
That's not a bad thing. You just, you know, haven't figured it out yet. You
haven't figured out what that sweet spot is. And so maybe
you're trying to appeal to everyone, hence The we don't have a
specific target market. If you pitch to everyone,
everyone thinks you're not pitching to them. Yeah.
And so when you're more specific about it well, I
guess on the other hand too, if you're too specific about it, people think that
they're turning business away. Mhmm.
And I don't think that's true. I don't I think that, again, those people weren't
your people. Right. And so it may not have worked out as
Good as you thought it was going to be, but you don't know.
But I think also emotional niching is a thing we don't think
about a lot. Like, people Well, a lot of time when someone comes to me,
they're like, I have my niche locked down. I'm like, cool. What is it? And
then the first words that come out of their mouth are demographics. And demographics are
important. Yeah. Psychographics is what we need. Right. But,
like, yeah, it doesn't matter all that
much to me that they made $62,000
last year, that their favorite chip is Doritos, And that they
tend to watch the NBC Tuesday night block. Like, I don't
really care about The, and I run a pop culture podcast, and I don't care
about that. Right? Like, I that doesn't do
it for me. So I'm always I take their demographic Horbacio, and I say,
okay. Cool. Let's put that in this column over here,
but let's look at the problems that they want solved because
other than, you know, having to do laundry
Or death and taxes. Not everybody has the same
problem, and we do a disservice of our audience by saying
every 38 year old, you know, black
male in the Midwest who makes $62,000
a year has the exact same wants and needs. Right?
Yeah. It doesn't really give you a name, somebody go, but you can't.
Not. Again, because we're, like, trying to please everybody and
pleasing no one or we're trying to please a phantom instead of pleasing
a real person. Yeah. And I I actually encourage
people to give that a real person's name. Like, make it a
real person. Tell me what they do on the weekends. Tell me if they have
a dog. Tell me, you know, tell me, why they see
the value Andrew what level of you know, what their level of success is. We
Before I work with anybody, we actually conduct a very serious
personal interview, and it takes about an hour. But it's just us getting to know
each other like we have been doing. And what I'm
wondering what their values are. I'm wondering what's important to them. You know, what a
great. That's great. And I know everything about your business Just down to know why
and what you're trying to do. But what about your personal life? What's going on?
You know? Why don't I know what's up? How do you market someone? How do
you market a business of 1 or a business of a few
with a strong personal Riley like, branded
leader? How do you market them? How do you grow that business if you don't
know them? You can't. Yeah. Exactly.
You can't. I mean, end The end detail
Matters in weird ways that we don't quite expect. Like,
on The Not on my website, site. On The
spot on my entire website, it says that I am a
Chicagoan, and I think that deep dish pizza is gross. And this
is buried on my website.
There's all kinds of other weird, Juicy
stuff in my bio and story. Sometimes I hear about
that more, and I'm a lot more vocal about that. Like, yes,
My grandfather was a used car salesman. Yes. My mother is a retired
motivational speaker. Those are things that people find interesting. Yes. I did used to
be a lounge singer. Yes. Yes. Right? All of these different things are true. They
don't pick up on that stuff. The first thing they wanna talk about is damn
deep dish Chicago pizza. And I'm like, that's what brought?
That Sell put you on my camera, like it either. Or they're like,
I don't understand. I love it. I drove 3 miles once For a slice of
deep dish. And I'm like, and you had heartburn the whole way back. We
did. Right? I did. But, like, why
It it the detail matters, and we don't know
what details are gonna be resonant. And so to go back to what you said
at the very beginning, the way that we Amplify our
chances of success is to show up authentically, to lift the
veil, let people see the real us beyond our
work In a boundaried way
Andrew allow them to resonate with us as people, not
just as many corporations.
Mhmm. Yeah. You know? Like like I
mentioned, you know, besides the hat and the blazer, everyone knows that I have a
pitbull Mhmm. At home, and it's just like a weird thing because I'm a
skinny white girl walking down the road with,
a Sell pound gray pit Sell Who rescued
from a dog fighting ring. Might be wearing a Hawaiian
hat. I love true crime. I think
potatoes should be their own food group. Yeah. I love
all of these things about you. And see The things I would see at your
website, it'd be like, I Also love potatoes. Maybe
it's my Irish heritage, but I could eat them all the time.
I also have a dog who's part The doesn't really
matches me at all. And I also tend to wear
loud florals. Like, we knew immediately. We're like, oh, we're gonna be
buds. Yeah. I knew as soon as I walked in that door.
Yeah. We knew. We were like, oh, we're gonna be friends. And then I met
you, Andrew, immediately, I was with our now mutual Fred, Nicole, Iacobodian. I'm like,
you need to go talk to her. She's our people. Like, when you make it
easy to know who you are, you make it easy to know who you
are, period. More trustful.
Right? And it it greases the wheel. Like, I know
How I could support you and your business, and you
know how you Would support me and mine, And you
and I have never had a conversation in the history
of our new friendship where we've only talked about business.
Not. And yet, if you needed to refer me
to The of your clients tomorrow, you would know who to refer and for what,
and so would I. Absolutely. And that's
just because we're friends, and we had a great conversation. Yes.
So let's talk about that Because parks is also a really great
example of The. And this isn't where I was planning on going,
but the the parks office really is That team really is a
family. And I mean for a lot of us, you know, you went
from 0 to 8, and now you have a family of 8.
But For a lot of us, especially before we
make that jump or even while we're making that jump,
a lot of us don't have
A built in work fam or or support system
in that way in our small business or self employment because we're
out on our own. So I feel like
work friendships
Or kind of an interesting thing because at one point, people hear the
term work friendships and go, well, that's not like a real friendship. Like, well
Right. Why couldn't it be? And sometimes it very much is, but, you know, whatever.
Or on the flip side, like, oh, well, I don't have time to make friends.
I'm running a business. So, like,
what what is your stance on
having relationships With
people in your ecosystem that don't always
have to end in some kind of trade or partnership or
profit? I like to
so I've been living in Chandler for a while now, Phoenix
area. I kinda go back and forth. And Chandler is a very tight
knit Community as far as business owners, family, and politics
go. So that if you wanna talk about being intertwined,
That is one heck of an example. Mhmm. And I never
I probably network about 60 hours a month, And
I never walk into a room just to
poach people. I'm it's never my
intention. I'm very Strategic about it, and that's how I decide where to go.
But I think about why people are there to begin with. I think
about why I'm there. It's usually business or social,
so maybe like a happy hour. I think about what the both of us wanna
get out of The situation. And then I just walk
in I kinda just walk in like I know everyone, actually.
But I just walk Walking, I'm willing to have a conversation. I'm
looking for that relationship
because that's Heavily Who we do run business. But I also just
love people. I love talking to people, and I like learning things.
So if you're doing something that I have no idea about, I wanna I wanna
stand in front of you and listen to you talk and ask you weird
questions, and then I'll ask you how I can help you or who you wanna
meet. No. Then you'll not then you'll tell them what their Harry
Potter house is, and then you 2 can talk about that for a while.
Next episode dropping It's a big here. Exactly.
But it's you know, I love that idea because you're talking
about intent, And I feel like intent shows up in every single episode of
The show. Because when you're talking about when you're networking, you
are intending to take up space. You
are intending to leave having met someone, so you don't just do the thing
I used to do when I would let my introversion win and I would, like,
go to an event, stand in a corner, and leave just So I could be
like, well, I went. Like, no. Who. Y'all.
Waste your time then. Right? You can't the wallflower. No.
You're intending to take up space. You're intending to meet someone.
You're intending not to be shy about what makes you brilliant,
And you're intending to learn new stuff from new and exciting people, and
that's it. If you make money, awesome. If you make a new friend, awesome. If
you make a new partnership, awesome. But what I loved about what you said is,
like, I act like I already know everybody.
That's not wallflower energy. It's also not Peacock
energy. You're not being like, I am the mayor of this event. Move aside,
host. It's my show now. You're not doing that either, But you're
showing up like you deserve and belong to be there because
as a business owner in Chandler, you deserve and belong to be
there. Right? And don't and don't stow shop
either. Don't look over someone's shoulder as you're talking to them looking
for someone else better to talk to. Yeah. Because that always
bites you in the ass anyway. Mhmm. Like, that's just a
pretty woman scenario waiting to happen where, like, You ignore the wrong
person Andrew they put you on blast on the Internet, and you deserve it.
Right. Right? Or, like, you go to woo 1
person and don't know that the person you were inadvertently really rude to
is their best friend. You don't know if the person you're being
rude to is the best friend of the person you're
desperately seeking out. So even if you do get FaceTime
with The, they're gonna be like, who'd you meet tonight? And they'd be like, oh,
I met this real bitch named Caitlyn. She was so rude to
me. And then the best friend's gonna be like, oh, I thought she was kinda
nice, but fuck her. Right? Like, that's how this shit happens.
Right. Right. Well, I was, I I so I spoke at a summit last
week, for the Not women and the CEO of
Sprinkles. Was there Oh. You know,
have you had those? I mean, sprinkles cupcakes, are we talking? Yeah. Yeah. I'm seeing
those cupcakes. They have vending machines. Do you think I'm gonna avoid The
Opportunity to get a cupcake out of a vending machine? Are you joking?
You know why she invented those? She was pregnant and wanted a cupcake, and she
already ate the ones in our house that she made.
Find a need and fill it. Find a need and fill it,
people. That's all we gotta do. And then when we
when we did the workshop too, obviously, personal branding and social media,
we, I didn't know it, but the marketing
Team from Buzzballs, those things that you can buy from Those things are
hilarious. Talking about? Those balls of alcohol that are, like,
pina colada flavored and things like that? And they're all, like, neon
green. Yeah. Mhmm. Right. Yeah. Well, I knew that
the CEO was speaking at this Summit but I didn't
realize that her marketing girl Who also accompanied her was
sitting Not our presentation. And so she was asking
questions and things like The. And I was like, oh. And then she said what
she did. I was like, oh. So you never know who you're
talking to Andrew, You know, it's just like treat the you know, Would they treat
the janitor like the CEO, like, The I mean, very
famously, Michael Beckwith from The Secret
and everything else took time after a speech one day
to comfort A woman who came to hear him speak
or preach or something Who was sobbing her ass off in the back of
the room Because she lived in her car and had been so badly
abused her whole life and knew that she wanted to break into TV,
and he just held her told her she had the power to do it, and
that was literally Oprah. Wow.
That was literally Oprah. Like, He could Would
blown her off. He could have been like, okay. Sorry, crying woman. I'm
glad what I said affected you, but, like, I don't think you're gonna pay me
my Giant speaker fees, so I'm gonna move right past you.
No. That's awesome. Who that. You would've he would've
literally, easily, Understandably even
missed out on the chance to make Oprah Oprah.
Like, what?
Imagine if you've ever walked by that opportunity.
Oh my god. I mean, somewhere I have.
I have. Right.
Oh, that's a terrifying question.
All the listeners are going to lay down. They're like, I probably did
accidentally offend Bro. Damn. Oh
god. I was mean to Gail. I farted in an
elevator. I know it. Oh god. What did I do?
I was on a plane next to Stedman, and I didn't even know. None of
you have offended Oprah. Everyone take a breath.
So looking at
The landscape Gabe, of of camaraderie, of business
friendship, of finding your own coworkers or hiring them,
of Clarifying your personal brand of niching
Sell of these things, what haven't we
talked about about our beloved Pawnians yet When it comes to
any of these topics. How Would you market the
Harvest Festival? How would
I market the Harvest Festival now? Mhmm.
What I would do is I would run it like a Chamber of Commerce, and
I would get Everybody in the community
to lean into what they already want to do, which is to take what
our mutual friend, Chris The Grasso, calls inspired ownership,
Which is this is Pawnee's festival, and therefore, Pawnee
needs to show up to make it great because little Sebastian's dead
now. Who has said no. So the whole
thing can't ride on his Riley, horsey
shoulders. Right? Like Right. They're gonna have to figure it out. And
so number 1, I think you kick off with an
annual Little Sebastian Sell of
life, and I think you have mouse rat play
bye bye little Sebastian every year. Oh my god. Your candle
vigil. Get it going. And then beyond there, be like, little
Sebastian's gone. Are you gonna be the new star of the Harvest
Festival Andrew then let them Bring what they wanna bring. How would you market the
Harvest Festival? Oh, okay.
Man, well, I'm gonna go against, your idea, But
you gotta you gotta bring bring Chris Pratt back. Where is
he? You gotta use him. He's he's gotta be
somewhat of the spokesperson. Come on now. Come on now. I know you hate it.
I know you hate it. And we want in the contract to act
like Andy as a clause, please. Yes. Act like Andrew, and
if you could gain some weight, that would be great. Like
I just want, you know, Aubrey Plaza to Have commercials that
say, don't come to the Harvest House. God. That's exactly how
we would do it. We would we would have Aubrey Plaza. We would hire Aubrey
Plaza Looking deadpan at the camera being like,
don't go to the Harvest Festival. It Sell be fun.
There will be food. There will be animals. There
will be people. Don't go. We load Sebastian and
then she runs. That's just right. That's right. Like and this has been
Angela, Gatewire, with the report.
No. That's totally true. Okay. Oh my god. Okay. So 2 more questions For
you. One of them I love this idea of, like, Howard Would. You would leverage
Chris Pratt as he is now. I would hire a Chris Pratt
impersonator to be Andy in the pit I don't wanna tolerate that. But both of
us had the idea of honoring little Sebastian because Right.
Mhmm. Some parts of your brand never die. That's
true. Oh god. I mean, but in in
my own rebrand, I keep talking about, like, I'm using taglines again
I haven't used since 2016. I'm using colors again that I haven't used since
2013. Like, there's this way of things repeating. Some aspects of your
brand and your pivoting will return to you Just like the spirit
of little Sebastian.
Oh, okay. So the The first question
I have for you is, Chandler has decided
to have a festival, and the,
spokes Boy of the festival is your beautiful pit
Sell. Beautiful. What
What events are you basing around your dog?
What personal brand are we building around your dog? Oh
my god. For the people of Chandler,
Arizona? Oh, Who need more dark
parks. Hopelessly
nope on the job. Right? I it's you know what? I find
it interesting that you Picked my dog because I would not
pick a pitbull for the spokesperson of Chandler. Those
people are scared of my dog, So that'll be a time.
Maybe it's the Chandler We're Not Scary Festival.
Right? Don't be scared of Chandler. We have a low
crime rate. Nice people and scary dogs that are not scary at
all.
Andrew your doodles. Oh my god. Yeah. Your goldendoodles
can go back to Scottsdale. We're Chandler.
We're edgy, but not scary.
Yeah. I love that. Well, I think k. So Chandler Chandler is
definitely so there is There are a few different, cities that
are basically we're all Not city before I moved there, but there's Mesa,
Chandler, and Gilbert. Gilbert's Sell the bougier version of
Chandler's trying to get up there and have more accessible programs for people instead
of being so exclusive. So they are like the pawnee.
And then there is Mesa, which is, like, trying
but not quite there yet. So Chandler
Lazy Maybe Mesa needs the Pitbull Festival. Maybe
Mesa needs The like, your I think you should also need the Pitbull
Festival. What? Where? Mesa. You're right.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, they're they need to, like, we're not rough. We're we're loving
Festival. Okay. Cool. We've we've shifted over to Mesa. Good to
know. But for anybody that needs you to run any kind
of a festival, dogs or no dogs, and also, you know, their social or
websites or marketing or helping them excavate their personal
brand out of the muck that they may have accidentally made. What's the best
way for them to start a conversation with you and your team?
We're basically on everything. So hit me up on Instagram,
If you're creative and or, shoot me an email hello@coppertheorycreative.com.
Hello. Oh. Howdy.
Well, I don't really love waffles, but I do love
friends, and I do love work, And I do really, really
love working with my friends today. So in the immortal words of
Leslie Knope, thank you For being here,
you beautiful, radiant, moth, land
mermaid, all the other things she calls Andrew Perkins. Thank you for
being my land mermaid today, Caitlin. Thank you, beautiful
Andy. Y'all, I'll be back in just a second with my
final thought and your homework for this week. Bring your dog. Why
not?
Well, hey there. This week's episode was pop culture
rich. So I'm going to jump right into
this week's homework With a small little
reminder slash caveat, which is just the one Would,
boundaries. There is no need To expose
some part of yourself. I bet I could have
phrased that better, but you get my gist. There's no
reason To do anything ever in your
marketing that truly feels unnatural.
Some details of your life are yours to keep As we talked about in
the episode. So just do a check before this week's homework.
What do you wanna share? What do you not wanna share? What feels uncomfortable
or like you're growing versus what feels unnatural and better
left unspoken? Okay. So as you may have
guessed, your homework this week is to break out
of the mold a little bit and share a glimpse
of Your personal journey, something you're passionate about,
something you love to nerd out about, or something else genuinely
unique about you In either your 1 on 1
client relationships or your outbound social
media content, We really do care about the
person behind the business. Now if you're stuck, consider
sharing something about the experiences that have shaped you, The
challenges that you've overcome or the passions or nerdery
points that currently drive you forward. These
really do go a long way to establish deeper trust
and deeper connection. Crafting a narrative that showcases your
authentic self is a Super powerful tool for capturing the hearts
and minds of your prospects, but you know that. You hear that all the
time. And there's a reason for that. Personal anecdotes,
Pivotal moments including your wins are
really sexy content. Why? Because we
See the real you in a way that we almost never
see from the big brands. We're inviting
our prospects Into a larger, better
story. So this week, I encourage you, put pen to
paper The topic yourself, and just let the words
flow. What do you feel like sharing? I can't wait to find out.
Hey. Thanks for listening. If this episode kept you laughing and
learning, I have 2 requests for you. 1st, make sure
you hit that Subscribe or follow button depending on your platform
so you never miss an episode. And, also,
more importantly, If you are looking for support,
inspiration, networking, collaborations, or just
a chance to hang out with me, Annie P Ruggles, And our fantastic
guests, make sure that you are a member of our
LinkedIn community, The Legitimati. It is a weird
and wonderful place. I can't even believe it's on LinkedIn, and
we want you there. You'll find the link in the show notes.
Big shout out as always to the fabulous dudes who helped me make
this show, my producer and editor, Andrew Sims of
Hypable Impact, My theme composer, Riley
Horbacio, and my show art creator,
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