Writing for Actors with Chris Corbett & Two Unemployed Actors - Episode 92

Max Belmonte 00:12
Welcome back to Two Unemployed Actors. I'm Max.

Sam Folden 00:15
I'm Sam

Max Belmonte 00:16
And today we have a writer, a very much acclaimed writer. Sometimes I call myself a writer but
no Chris is a real one we've got a real writer. He has written over 50 hours of television. A
seasoned Australian writer with experience across many Aussie staples from All Saints, Blue
Heelers Neighbors, Halifax, and more. And also teaches writing, which is fantastic. Chris
Corbett, welcome to the show.

Chris Corbett 00:46
Hello, how are you?

Max Belmonte 00:48
Good, good. I'm halfway through that intro and I'm thinking jeez that's that's alright. That's
quite a breadth, you've written police drama, legal drama, medical drama, murder mystery. Is
there a favorite?

Chris Corbett 00:59
To be able to write anything in Australia is amazing. But yeah, you have to do whatever is
available here. When you when I've been to conferences in America the writers always go okay,
what genre are you? Well, I'm anything and then they just look confused. They go no, no, you
have to be one thing. That's not going to work here.

Max Belmonte 01:18
Do you have a favorite that you sort of gravitate to or one that you find a bit a bit easier or
harder?

Chris Corbett 01:23
I've pretty much been a jobbing writer, my life. So I sort of go where people invite me. But look,
I've done a lot of crime stuff. And I enjoy that. So I enjoy the puzzle aspect of working out how
the crime works and how to how to often keep that from the armchair detectives who are
watching it.

Max Belmonte 01:42
Brilliant.

Sam Folden 01:43
You are also an actor in the theater. And do you think that has helped your writing success?

Chris Corbett 01:51
I do. And if I'd been a better actor, I probably wouldn't have had a stab. I was pretty damn
mediocre. I have to say I think I was in my head. I was much better, of course. But I just I just
wasn't quite right. And when I realized that the point I realized on stage I was with a great
actor. I was acting with Jacek Koman and I just, I was just spending all my time on the stage
going, Gee he's really good. He's fantastic. I wasn't missing my lines in the meantime, and I
was standing where I was supposed to stand but I just go wow, hows he do that?

Max Belmonte 02:29
Just watching him work.

Chris Corbett 02:30
And it wasn't true failure as an actor, I simultaneously it was one of those, it was those years
where you did everything. So I was I was working as a dramaturg for the Melbourne Theatre
Company. I was doing small plays, I had a company with some friends called the $5 Theatre
Company directing and writing, you know tearing the tickets, operating the coffee bar, running
backstage to do the lights during all of it so it was one of those you just did everything put a
show on.

Max Belmonte 03:02
Yeah, I mean nothing much has changed until... you know is an up and coming actor until
you've established areputation. You know, certainly you've got to be a slashy as we say you've
voiceovers everything survival jobs,

Chris Corbett 03:17
But I love all that but why wouldn't you do everything I just love every aspect of showbiz so I'm
I'd still be happy to you know if I got involved in theater now I expect to be carrying tickets and
operating lights

Sam Folden 03:29
Why not if you can.

Max Belmonte 03:31
And I guess that's that's more life experience, more fuel for your characters.

Chris Corbett 03:36
It's just fun too. it's fun to be involved in showbiz.

Max Belmonte 03:40
And create something.

Chris Corbett 03:41
A lot of us spend our time whining and whinging about it. But what else would you want to do?
Max Belmonte 03:47
I know right.

Chris Corbett 03:47
Work at Telstra instead?

Sam Folden 03:49
Yeah.

Max Belmonte 03:51
That's pretty cool.

Chris Corbett 03:52
Go back to the Tax Office Come on.

Max Belmonte 03:54
Yeah. Oh, God, I'm just getting shivers now actually.

Sam Folden 03:56
Yeah. I'm falling asleep already.

Max Belmonte 04:00
Sam is micro sleeping. Thats when you know, it's yeah,

Sam Folden 04:02
Not because of Chris. Not because of Chris! it's exactly what you said.

Chris Corbett 04:06
I make myself nod off sometimes.

Max Belmonte 04:10
You taught a short course through the MEAA on writing specifically for actors. That's where I
met you and took lots of furious notes on writing and even kick started me, so I know who to
blame, kick started me on writing a television series, my little passion project. What advice
have you got for actors who have been thinking about writing for a while because I know I was
thinking about it for a lot longer than I've actually spent doing it.

Chris Corbett 04:41
Yeah, look, I think the first thing is, it is one of those things. Look, both acting and writing share
something in that if you get it right, you make it look easy, and people just assume that anyone
just does it. There's no art or craft involved in it. So how many times have you been at that
barbecue, you know where somebody's uncle come up, "Oh, you're an actor? Yeah. What do
you have to study for that for you just just do it, don't you." And it's the same as writing. Actors
know that because they know all the invisible work that goes into doing something and still
looking natural and performing actions and making it come alive. But it's interesting that some
actors when they go to write, they actually make the same mistake, and they just assume, Oh,
that's just gonna be easy. I'll just write down, I'll just sit there. And I'll write down first thing, I
think, oh, okay, it's two characters, and they're just chatting. And they just start typing
something in script form, and assume that that's going going to work. So there has to be some
sense of looking into all the mysterious, the mysterious sort of principles that make storytelling
work. So again, and that's hard, you know, so many of those screenwriting books, and I've read
just about all of them, and they all have, you know, a lot of wisdom in them about how it all
works. But reading, reading one of those books almost always makes you feel like writing less.
It's a bit like David Mamet said about acting exercises, he said, "all acting exercises are
designed to make you feel you can't act." And there's something about reading those
screenplay books, do we read them, you got off? Am I working on? I'm gonna do six act. And
then I've got to do, I've got to do this. Whereas Oh, my God. So I've tried to when I, when I sat
down, I thought I'm going to, I'm going to try and actually teach writing, I wanted to do it in as
no bullshit away as possible. And in an empowering way, so that people didn't get that same
feeling of, you know, a script expert in inverted commas talking at them, and then they feel like
they just can't do it. So what what I concentrate on is just building story, really. And that's,
that's a tough, that's a tough game, to build something out of air out of nothing, a series of
events that make sense, and people are not going to be bored by that gives them some sort of
emotional kick is, well, it's virtually impossible. And yet people managed to do it. So I found a
way with that equity, because I hope so far, I mean, people are feeding back that seems to be
working for him, which is great. Just a simple, no bullshit way of saying, what are some of the
elements of a story? How can you start to build them, and again, there's no formulas, there's
no templates, there's no recipes, none of that junk works, you know, anyone that tries that
junk, you know, good luck, that goes a year, your life, you're going to have something that
looks like a screenplay, it's going to be nicely typed, but it's not going to have any story to it.
So again, there's there's a mystery to it, but I hope in the building blocks of what I was able to
pass on to the actors in those courses, that, that people will be able to take that away and
teach themselves to write, really, that's my hope. And, and, you know, who knows whether it's
going to work or not, I'll know in five years time when I'm down the shops, and someone stops
me and says, just, I've just sold something at Netflix, and anything before.

Sam Folden 08:14
All those ways you've just said like so those are the ways that you've overcome in I assume,
your history of writing so many different things. Use those ways, kind of laying it out bit by bit.
Going through. That's how you overcome it.

Chris Corbett 08:30
Well, exactly. But again, I was in because I'm a jobbing writer, I was always just thrown into
that, the fire. So I used to when I first started writing, I wrote plays, and again, I would be
writing a play over a year and a half sort of guy, and I'll sit down today and I might move that
comma, maybe I'll move that combo or whatever. And then when I when I managed to get a
job, talk my way into a job on Blue Heelers. That was like, you know, as soon as I walked in the
door, they basically said, oh, right, we're throwing out episode 327. But we're shooting it next
week. How would you like to write? How do you like to completely replot that and write half an
episode? I said, that that'd be great. When do you want that bit? miserably, you know, of
course. I started writing like a play. So I just get them in one room and I had big speeches. And
they just, they just shook their head. They could have fired me they would have fired me they
fired. I was on one of those still in Victoria, you've got to have in three months sort of deals.
And by the time three months have gone by no problem. If episode 354 fell apart. Yeah, I can
sit down and write replot and write a new one in three days. It's amazing. I had the luxury of
actually sitting down to teach and that's what again, I'm at the moment I'm teaching teenagers
this stuff and and they're really getting into it but I am sort of saying oh wish someone had
done this to me, I had to bumble around trial and error. I was well and truly and took me like 10
years to learn how to tell the story. So I was well and truly my 30s By the time I was going, Oh,
okay, yeah, now I don't get it. So hopefully I said to the teenagers the other day, they just
looked confused at me. I said, it took me 10 years to learn it, right? They're just going, yeah,
what, what's he going on about now? And then I said, I reckon if you use this stuff, I can shave
six or seven years off that. And they don't understand that.

Max Belmonte 10:34
They only think one semester at a time, perhaps, what's he talking about? He must be really
slow.

Chris Corbett 10:41
Well, we'll see only time will tell?

Max Belmonte 10:45
Well, I think because Blue Heelers was absolutely massive. Like, it's like an Australian religion. I
mean, you know, I like to imagine that there was just so much process and so much behind the
scenes, you know, the enormous machine full of resources, but it sounds like it was a little bit
of, you know, flying by the seat of your pants

Chris Corbett 11:07
just because I mean, the main reason what brilliant or brilliant people or fantastic but it was, we
had to make 42 episodes a year, which is just incomprehensible. And then not only that, but you know, CHANNEL SEVEN wouldn't pay you for 10 weeks, they wouldn't pay you for 52 weeks
a year, they pay for 42. So your contract would finish. And then you'd have like two to three
months of unpaid. And then you'd come back. And you they always said to channel seven, our
we've got to we've got to work out what the stories are for these 42. Could we come back, you
know, maybe a couple of weeks earlier? No, that's too expensive. Oh, my God, we got when are
we going to work out what the stories are for the just you can come back, come back on the
Tuesday come back two days before. So we just have to get like a whiteboard and go and do it
all. So it was amazing that we got through it, there was a really tight, brilliant Script team and
the producers were brilliant. And they really just they understood that the riders needed to be
left alone.

Max Belmonte 12:11
I remember you told the story about, there's a police officer attached to the production
company to the network, that advises. And then one subed in one day.

Chris Corbett 12:28
I did have one where we concocted this fantastic episode where we brought in a new cop for
about two episodes and looks like they were going to be the new cop. And then we killed them.
And it was this fantastic episode, where we'd sort of it was really well done, where it was built
in about five parts. And we followed each person's point of view as the phone rang, and they
realized that that their new cop comrade had been shot. And it was beautifully plotted and all
of the things just sort of mesh together. And, then the new cop that arrived, just came, turned
up on my door and just looked really worried and said, Look, I've got a little problem with the
script. And I said sit down Tell me what problems are on the mound. I've got my pen out. She
said, I know this wouldn't happen if this sort of murder happened. That's not what we do. And I
said, Oh, okay, great. What would you do? And she said, Oh, we would just put tape around it
and wait for homicide to turn up. Can you understand how that might not be a fascinating 42
minutes?

Max Belmonte 13:39
42 minutes of standing in front of the tape?

Chris Corbett 13:42
Normally we had cops who would just go Yeah, what do you want to know? And but it was
always accurate. The radio talk was accurate. Everything was that they understood that it was
a story.

Max Belmonte 13:53
First and foremost. That's interesting, too, because you mentioned like budget wise and the
network's you know, being very, very tight on scripted. And I think at the time of Blue Heelers,
you know, you've got all these reality shows booming, which is so cheap to produce. Well, they
certainly now there's a few behemoths that are massive. But at the time, you know, really
cheap for the network's versus scripted.

Chris Corbett 14:17
I remember well, in fact, it was Yeah, something like about 2007. I remember I didn't work for
about a year and a half because I think the first of the reality shows came out. And the
network's just went fantastic. We can get rid of all those pesky writers, pesky Actors

Max Belmonte 14:32
with all their questions,

Chris Corbett 14:34
Who they hate, you know, because they've got some airs and graces about what they're doing
and you know trying to make art. And they basically just until there was nothing around for a
while and then they realize that a good reality show is absolutely as hard to make. So they just
thought that'd be cranking them out everywhere. I remember a network executive talking
about remember the show Celebrities Splash, which was about it was just about celebrities in
their togs. and they had to dive off a diving board. And I remember a network executive who
should have known better and was in charge of drama stuff going. My tip for the year, best
show, best show in a year Celebrity Slash , Celebrity Splash sorry.

Max Belmonte 15:14
Thats the show they should have made.

Chris Corbett 15:20
They probably will one day.

Max Belmonte 15:22
Unbelievable. But that Yeah, I mean, that dynamic was like global. And then all of a sudden,
these, you've got these reality franchises. And as an actor, you sort of dying inside slowly, god
knows what it feels like as a writer,

Chris Corbett 15:33
but it's so hard. I love reality shows too. But they're so hard, it's so hard to get a good one. So I
think they ealized, yeah, you're gonna have to pay some of those pesky writers and actors a
little bit longer.

Max Belmonte 15:45
Well, I've got a question on pitching mainly because in a few weeks time, I'm hoping to be pitch
ready. I've heard that you need to have like a publish a polished pilot episode, to walk into the
room. Or do you need to have more episodes finished? Or is it just an outline of the main?

Chris Corbett 16:03
I'm just working on anecdotal evidence here, I've pitching doesn't really happen that much in
Australia. As far as I know, I've never I've certainly created TV shows, but none of the network's
ever been the least bit interested in even reading them or answering email. The sad thing
about Australian television is the same 10 or 12 people make it really. So if you do... you start
and I do it on board with a class Monday, I said I broke down the 40 Australian shows I could
think of. And then I just went, Okay, who's made this? Who made this? Who made this? And it
was like, oh, it's the same six companies and the same sort of 10 people. So my advice to you
is when you pitch, first of all,

Max Belmonte 16:46
yeah,

Chris Corbett 16:47
Go to those six, go to those 10 people. Because otherwise, they're not going to even answer
your call. But in terms of pitching Look, I don't, I really don't know, I've always when I do. So
first of all, the first advice is, don't write a 30 page document, you know, most people assessing
them can barely read, and they don't like reading. And they work really hard. And it's probably
10 o'clock at night. And they've ignored the kids, when they sit down to read this part. And they
don't care about the two page description of each character and whether they're an Aquarius,
or whether they played tennis when they were a kid. And then the breakdowns of all of the
episodes. So a snappy three or four page thing that just they've decided by the time they've
read the first two or three cent I would actually concentrate on, you know that first two or three
sentences, says, Here's what the show is, and they go, Oh, okay, I get them. But I do think
you're going, you're going to have to have, you're going to have to have a polished script there.
But I also think, look, and again, not to be negative about it, and good luck when you go in
there. But they're extremely unlikely to buy a TV show from someone that has not made a TV
show. And that sounds unfair. Whenever I say that to people, they go, Oh, that's not fair. And I
go well, it's not a lottery. It's not like, you know, if you rang up Kellogg's and said, you had a
great idea for breakfast cereal, they're not going to say that's fantastic. Come in, you ring up a
footy club that are gonna say, Well, I know it seems like having played footy before, why don't
you come down and strap the boots on and we'll put you in against Collingwood next week. So
the trick is, often when people who haven't made a TV show yet, the trick is to try to gravitate
towards, you know, if you were to go and ask, not me, not touting for work, but if you were if
you were gonna go just pick some really experienced writers and go, Okay, I've created this TV

show. And I've got these two or three writers who are going to write most of the series, I'll write
an episode or two, you will write an episode or two. And then the network because they're
business people, yeah, risk averse. They might then go, oh, we might not blow a millions of
dollars, then because again, if you were a business person, or if I had, if I have money, which
returned, and I have $5 million to build a house, I'm not going to go to someone that hasn't
built a house before.

Max Belmonte 19:12
Exactly.

Chris Corbett 19:13
My first advice would pitching is just try and build a package. And so too, with you know, if you
happen if your cousin has Claudia Karvan And you go I've given it to Claudia, and she's
interested in being in it. And I've got these three experienced people, and I'm on board as well
with my brilliant idea, which I'm sure it will be. Then that's got a good chance of success out
there.

Max Belmonte 19:38
Well, I remember, I remember at one of the AFTRS TV talks, segments, and they had some
producers on from scripted divisions, I think head of ABC comedy was one who said, you know
if someone makes it into my office, and they do have an idea that I think has got legs. The first
thing I'll do is put them with an experienced production company because exactly the reasons
you outlined.

Chris Corbett 20:03
The smart money, and in fact, if you want to, if you really want to pursue it is you do your
research and your workout who the six or seven production companie
Max Belmonte 20:10
Production companies are yeah exactly.

Chris Corbett 20:12
And go after that. Now the problem is, they've got whole departments coming up with ideas, so
you're competing with them. But at the same time, they're not going to no one's gonna say no,
if it really is a great idea, no one's gonna say no. And, and I won't say it never happened.
Something like the show Bump, I think was someone that which is brilliant show. Yeah, that
person had never written anything. And I think they somehow got on. And normally, what
happens is the receptionist stops you. So you know, the receptionist goes, Well, okay, I'm not
going to let the person that hasn't written anything speak to them, or I'll look bad. So bam,
gatekeepers everywhere. But somehow, this woman got through and John Edwards and put a
cover and said, This is a great idea. And it is, and it's a brilliant show. So it can happen. And
that hopefully, in the future, it'll happen more in the past. It's been very much, you know, small
little cliques of people protecting their territory. But hopefully, it'll open up and if you and
ideally, you just have to this sounds stupid, I'm not being facetious is that you just have to
make something that's so brilliant that anyone that reads it goes oh my god, got to make this.
And then not let them fuck with it. Basically.

Max Belmonte 21:26
That's the other thing Yeah, the relationship between creative producer and business producer
and how it's easy to lose your voice in the machine that is, you know, tried and true tested.

Chris Corbett 21:38
Well, sistex, systemically what happens here is the writers have no pat Well, it's getting better,
it's slowly getting better, but historically, writers had no power at all. So you know, you're often
I in my, I'm talking about the past here, I hope it's different. But I'm often I've often had a
producer right over my shoulder, telling me write this down. And I'm going, that makes no
sense. If you do that, we know who the murderer is on page 3 write it down. Whereas in
America and Britain, the writers are more or less in charge. So whereas here, he was to hire the
writer until now, and it is changing, I think, has been maybe a notch above caterer in terms of
actual clout and power. It's example I get, and they just they can mediocre us. Example, I guess
if they bought Breaking Bad, they would have said, that's great. You know, yeah, yeah, we'll
buy that. And then about three weeks before it was shot, I'd say, Look, I don't think people are
going to like this guy, if He subtracts. I think we're going to have to change that. What if it was
something that didn't have? What if it was a counterfeit, so just just a little change? Make it a
counterfeit? And then they would also say, Look, we're not sure anyone's going to want to
watch a 50 roll, man, really? 50 Roll white man who's gonna watch that? Could it be? Could it
be a sexy 35 year old woman of a diverse ethnicity, and we love the handicapped son, though,
we want more of the handicapped son, if we could have half the episodes about the
handicapped son, and half of the episode is about the sexy 35 year old, is ethnically diverse
counterfeiter, then that's a shot, but it's not that different from what you've got. So if you could
just tweet those

Max Belmonte 23:32
just some subtle changes.

Chris Corbett 23:34
Thats what would have happened.

Max Belmonte 23:35
From the Experts.

Chris Corbett 23:38
Then they'd go Why is the show terrible?

Max Belmonte 23:40
Oh, my God,

Sam Folden 23:41
Well going back a bit to what you're talking about. Before where you'd be shoved in a room to
write multiple episodes for a week, if not days. When where do you come up with your ideas?
Like how do you just...

Chris Corbett 23:58
Well in that case theres a gun to your head. So it is adrenaline loves you. But at the same time,
there needs to be often that only happens when there is like an in house writing crew, who
knows those characters and knows those situations. And most importantly, as well knows what
sets there are knows how the locations were controlled. So it's only possible if to write that fast
and to have it actually work. And they often they often did often those episodes written by the
in house crew. You know, and look, probably the original script was probably fine. It was usually
just a producer. And this happens all the time just a producer or a network changing their mind
about something at the very last minute, you know, they'll just go I know we said this episode
was a bank robbery, but couldn't be a kidnapping. And they say that, you know, a week before
pray as if that's like an easy as if that's just you cross out a few words and change it and
become Because, sadly, because those Australian in house writing proves so bloody good, they
are able to do it. And then once they do it, the producers just go, we could take and run
anything quickly. But wouldn't it be better if we spent, you know, months working on the story?
Yeah.

Max Belmonte 25:19
How do you test the story ideas? Like, is there a tried and true way you sort of throw the ideas
out there to see if they land?

Chris Corbett 25:30
It's, it's tricky in that television context, it's largely just to do with the collected wisdom of that
group. So once you get so if I think back to healers, or whatever, there would be just seven or
eight ridiculously smart people sitting around that table with the whiteboards. And not only
ridiculously smart, but they know that show. And I know what we're and the other thing is,
because the way that show was working, and we're all in there for years, and it was 42
episodes a year, you had a chance to test stuff. So that was the beauty. I was training that once
I got good, and I had to quickly, you know, you would be typing the scene and you'd write it,
you'd go, I think this works. And then the actors would be doing it like three weeks later, and
then you'd be sitting at the read through and you'd get to hear them and you'd go that's not
quite right. And then, and in fact, somebody like John would would come up to you, who's also
writer and he'd say, I think I'd like to change this to that. And you'd go, yeah, better thank you.
And then you get to see a shot, and then you go, oh, that didn't work. What what did I do wrong
there, I must have, ah, now if I do it this way, and I'd gave you that information a bit earlier, the
audience would have an emotional response. So you actually it was a, it was a real training
ground, which was a privilege to have that training ground. And for that training ground to be
at the time, you know, one of the best rating shows ever. And to have millions of people
watching, it was such a privilege that I just accidentally fell backwards into. And it was a
delight. So that's what's so hard. And it's the same with say, theater, when I was working in
theater, you know, lights, you know, you would write your play, and then I would just sit in the
audience for the 20 performances of it. And just, you know, with my notepad and listen to like,
the audience breathing, and watching when they shuffle and watching when they lean forward,
and then you go, and I'd often just sort of write something down in the dark, and then go home
and go, Ah, it's because they've got this bit of information in the wrong order, or that bid goes
on too long, or whatever. So it's important to have that feedback loop. I mean, and that's where
like live comedians, you know, they have to work, even when they're writing their stuff, they're
writing it with an understanding of hundreds of audiences they've stood in front of, and so too,
with, you know, things like healers, we would we would watch each episode when it was
finished Academy, or you'd sit in with the editors. And you would you you just go I know what's
I didn't realize at the time, but now I can see what's wrong with and then hopefully, we all got
better. You know,

Max Belmonte 28:21
that's exciting that to have I never thought of it that way that you've got, you know, 42
opportunities to really test and try and develop different new and exciting themes.

Chris Corbett 28:33
And those stories were, you know, often really that sort. Of course, there were some not quite
one of those 40 to a year that was, but but at least half of them would be amazing. Yeah. And
then, you know, a quarter of them were really good. And then there was maybe a quarter of
them that misfire because we were just making them so quickly. So in terms of, you know, and
you tell us to American writers night just shut up because it's like, we would pop them in one
day, bang, that's it, and they'd go, you know, Americans, Breaking Bad, etc, etc. They just sit in
that room until they broke the story. And that was often all of the writers for six or seven
working days. Before they track each hour long episode. We had like, one day the random
would fly in maybe from Sydney, we'd all sit with them. And then as soon as they leave at five
o'clock for their plane, we stay there and work a bit more on all the other episodes we were
doing. So again, shouldn't have been possible.

Max Belmonte 29:31
I went to a podcasting conference a couple of weeks ago in LA and there was a section a panel
discussion on adapting podcasts to television series and film, which is really interesting. In fact,
UTA WMV and all those huge CAA the big monoliths have divisions for podcasting now, and
someone who he was writing I forgot his name. Did a few of the MCU the Marvel franchise, the
big one said something I'd never heard before that, you know, they've talked about writing a
four quadrant story. And I've gone well, what because we're talking about, you know, less risk
and you know, doing the same thing over and over four quadrants when it appeals to the, to
the teens to the pre pre teens to the young adults and to the mature adult and, you know,
popcorn movie. And it's with that mindset they look at, well, if it works as a podcast, then let's
just, you know, it's a chance of working as a television series as an audience already there. Oh,
absolutely.

Chris Corbett 30:36
And the idea of dramatic podcasts I noticed, yeah, there was something advertised recently
with Jon Hamm, where he was playing like a police negotiator in a hostage situation. I think so.
And also, the Austin Film Festival has competition. I don't know if you've got a dramatic podcast
as well? You should! The two of you.

Sam Folden 31:07
But just enter this episode with you, Chris. It's pretty dramatic one.

Max Belmonte 31:12
I think it's like going back to the days of the radio plays though. It's really exciting as a genre,
because it feels so intimate because it's just you you're listening to all of it.

Chris Corbett 31:20
To hear it good, right? Because I think they've sort of stopped radio plays here, unfortunately.
But radio plays are fantastic if you can get that right. I remember listening to radio plays where
it was just like footsteps and then it was a door and you didn't know what was going on for it.
But you had to lean forward and try and immerse yourself in the sound. The podcasting I think
is something that's the future. We being Australians will wait for someone else to work on that
and then we'll just we'll copy their podcasts when brilliant time.

Max Belmonte 31:53
Yeah. Chris cool, but thank you very much for your time. We really appreciate it. It's been a
fantastic chat.

Chris Corbett 32:00
Good on you guys.

Sam Folden 32:02
Thanks, Chris.