Two Unemployed Actors - Episode 102 - Making Documentaries

Max    Welcome back to Two Unemployed Actors, I’m Max. And in this episode I'll be talking to Jye Currie, Director and Producer of the documentary The Promise, Following the mental Health Journey of one Craig Hamilton. The Promise is also nominated for an AACTA award for Best Documentary. So welcome, Jye Currie.
    
Max    Thanks for joining us, mate. Appreciate it.
    
Jye    Thanks for having me.
    
Max    I know you're in the middle of really selling the documentary at the moment. I mean, there's lots of publicity and I say events for the Promise, followed by Q & A's and that sort of level of engagement, which is great. So I appreciate you taking the time. My first question is why Documentaries?
    
Jye    I guess I just want to make movies. I don't really mind if it's a fiction or a doc. Um, when I heard Craig's story, there was something that I heard him say that really stood out to me in that was that not many people were talking about suicide prevention. Yeah. So I had a look at films, obviously after hearing that and realized there weren't many suicide prevention doctors.
    
Jye    Yeah. So we, um, obviously that sparked a thought with me and we got together and made a short film. One conversation, and we put that out on YouTube and just, just a little project and people wanted more. So we put together a proposal and a budget and just sent it out and I actually went backpacking for about four months and was in the middle of my trip and um, almost four months into the trip.
    
Jye    And Craig rang me up and said, Mate, we have the budget, you're gonna have to get back here. We're going to make it. So yeah, it turning into the feature.
    
Max    It's great and I think, did you have in mind, you know, a feature documentary when you did the short?
    
Jye    Yeah, I guess we didn't have, um, we weren't invested in like, we had to make this a feature. Yeah, that was obviously something that we both wanted to do if the opportunity presented right. Um, after making the short, everyone wanted it.
    
Max    Yeah.
    
Jye    And then it just kind of really went quiet. When it comes to getting the budget together.
    
Max    It certainly does help in the industry to have something to show some existing IP. You know, if it's not based on a book or a remake or whatever, at least I know some creatives who are out there doing short films as like a proof of concept standalone that can enter into competitions and stuff and get some some people talking about it.
    
Max    But it's another way to sort of step into getting their first credit at times on a feature. So I think it's a great achievement. And I mean, it's interesting what you said about how there aren't many features out there scripted, non-scripted around suicide prevention and specifically mental health. As it's become more of a conversation, I feel, in the community, in the workplace as well.
    
Max    I've got 20 years of corporate experience as well. It's certainly always was a part of a conversation, not always a big part, not always as big as it should be. And sometimes all it was was a conversation to virtually signal where the company wasn't really backing it up. So with that in mind, yeah, I mean, I can't think of anything that directly strikes really.
    
Jye    But there's a couple that I've seen, but they haven't done. ..I think we've done something different in the sense of we've got real stories from people. We've got a suicide… Someone who's survived a suicide attempt. Yeah, we've interviewed people that have lost loved ones to suicide. Um, people that have to struggle through suicidal thinking. And then we've also just got this general advocate.
    
Jye    So we've kind of more and we've got like New South Wales Health, we've got New South Wales Police on board. Um, we have that many, I guess areas to the doco that I think has made it really unique. Yeah. As opposed to just um, hearing just Craig's story or just having just a general suicide prevention film. We've kind of really tapped into that.
    
Jye    We've got leading researchers talking about some statistics and talking about the health system and stuff like that as.
    
Max    Well on the, on the statistics of the health system, I think and it's certainly great to have that perspective in the doco as well as a really great personal story. A personal story as challenging as it is sometimes to hear the statistics, I think one that stood out for me was out of over 100,000 Australians. 20,000 will have a challenge with their mental health at one stage or another.
    
Max    But there's only 95 psychologists and 90 mental health nurses for every hundred thousand. So that's that's that really stood out for me.
    
Jye    Yeah.
    
Max    It acknowledges that it's a huge problem in the community, but also that we're under-resourced.
    
Jye    Definitely.
    
Max    Do you have like a goal in mind that that resonates or or what sort of important message do you think view you want viewers to take away from, you know, seeing The Promise.
    
Jye    I guess like, um, in terms of like what we want people to take away is we want people to know that we want to give people hope, you know? Yes. Craig Stories is a story of hope. And we really want people to know that if they do talk or talk out, there's people that are going to listen and there is a way moving forward.
    
Jye    I know sometimes in the, um, in the midst of it all, it might feel hard to want to talk or, um, to want to do anything in moving forward. It's really the last thing that you're your got going through your mind at that time. Yeah. So the film is to really set up the conversations before it gets to that point.
    
Jye    When people are in a good headspace and in a good frame of mind and have conversations with a loved one with, with their loved ones or um, their GP's or whatnot and basically set up. So then if they ever get in that bad headspace, there's already a plan in place I guess that go with the film. Yeah. I have a question would be um, we just really want as many people in this really to see it as possible.
    
Jye    Yeah, I think the film would do the work it's supposed to do. It's just a matter of now of just. Just getting everyone behind it to just sit down and watch it. It's an hour of their time, and I think it's going to be educational as much as entertaining for everyone that watches it.
    
Max    Yeah, yeah, totally. I think if we can go back to how it sort of started, even when you were all in your mind thinking about approaching the short film, um, how did that sort of start? Did you have a grand plan, a vision and have everything down on paper, or did it kind of evolve on the journey.
    
Jye    Just evolved on the journey for the short film? Yeah, Um, it was a matter of me and Craig sitting down doing an interview, and I just wanted to say what I kind of got from that. And then, um, that obviously led to what questions I was going to set up in terms of when I was interviewing. Because in the short, short film we had.
    
Jye    Paul Harrigan Yep. Um, we had Jessica Rowe and we had Professor Francis Lincoln, who are all featured in the feature version as well. Um, but going into their interviews obviously had questions and written down that I wanted to a bit more of a plan of attack often on what I've got from Craig and then just B-roll, and that was just relevant to what I've already shot and I was just running guns.
    
Jye    So that was just me directing it, editing it, lighting it, doing the sound, everything on.
    
Max    Yeah.
    
Jye    Yeah. It was just putting in all the work because like, we didn't have a budget and we weren't going to try to like that wasn't the plan.
    
Max    It really sort of was all sort of snowballing.
    
Jye    Yeah, just put it together. So, um, yeah, but it was good enough for everyone to really get what they needed out of that and to grow it into what it is now.
    
Max    So I imagine you in trying to achieve, you know, all those roles just to get stuff done because you've got to, because it's only you really, it's like the things that you learned that you wish you could go back and tell yourself before you start it.
    
Jye    Definitely. I think that's just the beauty ground. Like with my short film Victim, it was the same thing was like a crew of three or four of us. Yep. And we're all we're in like six sets each. And yeah, it was what it was. And we, um, film ended up winning like 11 international awards and we were all so stoked and then, well, let's make a feature film.
    
Jye    So same thing. The crew got bigger. Yeah, but then so did all the responsibilities, and we were all just wearing multiple hats again. But it's, um, I guess what I noticed is like, Oh, I want to go and direct $100 million absolutely film. Why not? But who's going to trust me? The script. That's it. Whose? What investors are going to trust?
    
Jye    Yeah. So, uh, wrote me on script and self-funded my first feature and just got, like, a lot of odds. And 90% of the crew, maybe 90 flops on the crew, first on filmmakers. But it was a matter of if we're going to do this, yeah. And make something yeah, and put it out there, you know, and keep moving forward or we're going to sit around and wait for this day to come for.
    
Max    Someone says he's a $20M budget for.
    
Jye    You, and when is that going to happen? So it was just a matter of just doing that, just making your own money. Yeah, it's just making it happen.
    
Max    I think that's a great mindset and attitude, you know, over the episodes. We've touched on it from all sorts of creatives and other actors. You know, you can't just wait for the phone to ring. You've got to get out there, just make stuff happen. And I applaud anyone who is making original creative content, like just get out there and do it.
    
Max    Like, as you said, even with just three in the crew, you still managed to pull off 11 awards. It's not too bad.
    
Jye    Yeah, Yeah. We'll have.
    
Max    A bash. I bet. Punching above your weight. It's great. And speaking of which, punching above your weight, like the the cinematography and even the audio. I like it, really complemented the narrative on on the promise. And it and it's polished, it's slick, it's, you know st you really like it. It's up there with those big budget you know international Netflix Dockers.
    
Max    How important do you think is is those sorts of great great cinematography and and soundtrack to help you tell that narrative.
    
Jye    I think it's very important obviously the stories, what drives everything. Sure. But we're sitting there watching a film. Yeah we're listening to a film. We're not listening to music. We're not reading a book. So obviously video and music is really important. Sounds really important. So, um, you know, I spent about three months in pre-production with best cinematography, cinematography, really honing in the look that I want.
    
Jye    Yeah. And we worked out what cameras were going to give us that look, which lenses we needed to give that look exactly how in the light every interview. Um, obviously it's documentary, so a lot of things just run and gun. Yeah, natural light. It's like those there's nothing you can even say me multiple times running out of the picking up cameras in the background and we're both just filming.
    
Jye    I didn't sense that. Yeah, Yeah. Events as they happen. Yeah. And, um, but that's just documentary filmmaking. You there to document something? We're not setting it up and staging it. So a lot of the B-roll, obviously you do to make it look nice. And we're telling a story and we're recreating stories like at the train station, we had the police there and yes, um, obviously then we can adapt a bit and bring on that.
    
Jye    Yeah, that fiction type filmmaking on board. But other than that, it was just pre-production. We all had to really know, I guess all the crew had to know my vision at all times. So then even if they had to do something on their own and there's five ways we could do this. Yeah, they knew what I was kind of chasing the singer.
    
Max    For the same hymn sheet. Yeah, I think it shows that you put the work in, but because, yeah, it does look really slick and polished and nothing really sort of distracts from the story. Like it all sort of complements that which, which is great. Talking to the soundtrack and the cinematography as well. I think one thing you mentioned like, you know, having to, you know, run around the background and pick up cameras and just make stuff happen too, because you're in the moment and the interview is going well, like I guess with the difficult subject matter as well, that everyone's at different stages.
    
Max    It's touch them differently. Some perhaps aren't ready to talk about as much as others. You've really got to be ready to to capture that that moment when they start to open up. Yeah, it's not it's not really the luxury of a take two or three or four.
    
Jye    You can't you can't recreate the moment. So I think that's what's so beautiful about, um, our film and just general documentary filmmaking is that when you capture them real authentic moments. Yeah, they just people are going to relate to them because they're real. Yeah, I know. Actors can do incredible jobs acting and delivering that performance, but sitting there listening to someone talk about the day they attempted to take their own life, you don't feel them emotions in any other sense.
    
Jye    And that's just, I guess what's just so beautiful about capturing the moments and using like film as the medium to do so.
    
Max    Yeah, that's great. Um, as I consult my questions, I mean, certainly it pulls you right in from the start. It's quite confronting at the start where it's straight into like one of the worst moments in Craig's life. Yeah. How do you handle, how did you handle the wellbeing of those, even the crew? Yeah. You know. Did you have to talk to them beforehand about how did you approach it?
    
Jye    Oh, I had, um. I had a meeting with the team, um, before we started filming, and basically just let them all know that there's support there if they need it to come talk to me and everyone. And, you know, I, I try really hard to build relationships just in life always, but especially with my crew. So a lot of the time we're in cars, we're driving in outback Queensland and there's a lot of downtime with the crew that I want to have one on ones with, um, dinner times and whatnot while on the road and everyone opened up in their own way and share where they're always at and just working closely with everyone and
    
Jye    just letting them know that, um, well, everyone knew we were working on some like the subject matters really heavy in some forms and, but it's really important and I think everyone just knew the bigger mission of the film.
    
Max    Yeah.
    
Jye    And, um, we worked through it quite well, even like editing. It was, was a process for me. And um, Oliver Louis was, um, the editor that helped me do it. And, you know, we spent an hours every day with headphones on in the same room, editing, and you're listening to people say, like, I'm suicidal, I'm suicidal, or I was suicidal.
    
Jye    And you hear these words through your headphones in your head for hours every day for months while you're editing it. So that starts getting draining and you come out of your edit suite and like, just hearing that all day, it becomes heavy. So I made a thing. We, um, every hour we had an alarm go off, right, and would just stop.
    
Jye    We'd put it down, we'd get out in the sun or do some push ups or just do whatever we want. Just keep that morale high and get some vitamin D and that really, really helped us, the whole editing process, because the whole time in them hard moments, we there's always like eight on the hour every hour. We've just got to have a Yeah, that's right.
    
Jye    You can just go get some fresh air, get some sun, reflect, talk, bounce and just go back in for the next part because you sit there for 8 hours doing that. It's a stranger.
    
Max    Yeah, it's very intense emotionally, as apart from the skills needed for the jobs that you're doing. And so and yeah, it's a lot of time you guys are in this little bubble working together as a tight crew.
    
Jye    Yeah.
    
Max    I think it's great that you're able to talk about it amongst yourselves, particularly with such such fun content. Yeah, but important nonetheless.
    
Jye    Definitely.
    
Max    Um, overall, did you, did you collaborate with mental health professionals in pre-production? Like to help you sort of shape the narrative or how you're going to approach the story? Was it really defined by Craig telling his journey?
    
Jye    No, it was more so as close as we got to that I guess would be doing it, like interviewing, um, Professor Francis Kyle, championing this short film. Yeah. And obviously we sat there for an hour talking and it's a ten minute short film and she's me in it for 2 minutes. Yeah, yeah. But there was so much information that she gave me there.
    
Jye    And before we were filming, I was having conversations with her. Um, other than that, it was a lot of me. I pretty much had every minute in my head laid out structurally before we started filming. So my pre-production was very intense. Yeah. So even the way I structured my questions for Craig, I was almost setting up him to answer in a particular way because I knew what I needed for each part, and then I'd done the same thing for everyone else's interviews, is I knew that this was kind of the like, these minutes are going to be this topic and this part of it.
    
Jye    So I was asking them questions to make it relevant for their as well, right? So it was, um, you know, probably more so scripted in the sense. Yeah. Through questions in pre-production.
    
Max    Okay.
    
Jye    Yeah. Which, and just as that looks, obviously as we started getting answers and things evolved and then real life events happened and then I think that the shuffle around a little bit, but like that narrative was kind of already embedded from the get go.
    
Max    Okay, okay, that's great. And I certainly I think, you know, this the strong narrative coming from starting with Craig story and and being a strong component to the narrative and then leaning on mental health professionals when it comes to statistics and other things to help provide that perspective helps those sort of Craig's moments really resonate in. And I think rather than perhaps doing all that work and tiny little stats and talking to all the health professionals, then coming into it like a medical documentary perhaps.
    
Jye    Definitely. And I think that's just fine in that balance. Yeah. Um, we are telling Craig story. Yeah, we do need all that extra information to help build up with them. Parts are and look, if something's going to happen, we need to know how much more is at stake here. But there's a fine line between giving too much information and we just need to just listen to statistics.
    
Jye    Yeah. Um, there's some shocking stats that didn't make it, and everyone can look them up if they want. They're all online. But when I'm not here to hear all these stats, that's wrong.
    
Max    Yeah. No, that's really interesting because, you know, like the stats are quoted earlier, I mean, I remember them so vividly and they resonated so well because of where they were placed in the documentary. And you're sort of really engaged in Craig's story. And then they land in your lap and you're like, Oh my God, you know, we want to talk about it.
    
Max    We want to get help from our friends in that. But like in the mental health system, in the health system, there is no resources available. So sometimes you're relying on your mates.
    
Jye    Definitely.
    
Max    Or colleagues.
    
Jye    Yeah. Interesting. We are. And I guess like that's just the thing about Australia with we're a very mate orientated country. Yeah. Which is um, which is good, especially when there's other parts of life.
    
Max    Exactly. Um, I mean certainly sensitive topic, I think what, what advice would you give other emerging creatives on dealing with such sensitive topics in filmmaking?
    
Jye    Um, I'd probably say fun. Find the story so know exactly what you're doing and why you're doing it. Mm. Um, some of these topics, you know, they're presented in the wrong way can have a lot of backlash, right? I think I've thought about that a fair bit and I think, I wonder if that's why there hasn't been a suicide prevention film or doco done before.
    
Jye    Because if someone, if people are worried about the backlash. Yeah. Um, especially everyone's got to be politically correct now and all this stuff, if.
    
Max    They mean the end of the day, I think just, just when you start to talk, you risk offending someone. I mean, you have to accept that no matter what you do, no matter how much you do in pre-production, you can't no matter how smart you are, how many people you consult, you can't make something without offending someone at some stage.
    
Max    Yeah, you just can't make everyone happy all the time. I think once you get over that, it's a bit easier. But I guess, yeah, when you layering the sensitive content that could be triggering for some. Yeah, it's certainly difficult. So I appreciate where you're coming from and how difficult that might have been as it pertains to look through as you as you're formulating that editing and everything.
    
Jye    Definitely. And I just think it's just one of the things we, um, as hard as it is, you still go and do it because if, you know, like if we're still waiting for people to do that, you know, if people aren't doing that, we're still just waiting for these films to come out essentially, like, I think people need to hear some of these stories and need to see some of these films to really understand what's going on.
    
Jye    And we can't I guess we can't silence people's freedom to speak and create the example that's that's showcasing this stuff.
    
Max    Exactly. You know, I think it's it's great. And I think it's I mean, it's not I mean, making creative content Australia, it's not easy and certainly getting hot in New South Wales is had budget cuts announced last week and even the streaming quota has been pushed back to Q4 next year. Like it's like how many times can we get kicked, you know, trying it's hard to make some original content, I have to tell you.
    
Max    Yeah. So to be able to do that and we've, you know, it's such a great goal in mind of mental health awareness and getting to more people to talk about it. I think, you know, hats off to you for that. Um, but also, I mean, icing on the cake like actor documentary best documentary nomination, that's that's gotta be a great feeling.
    
Max    It is.
    
Jye    It is.
    
Max    And there's still for those actors listening that can vote there's still there's still a couple of weeks left actually I think extended it till 4th of October Actor to to nominate for docs and I know you've got a roadshow planned you're hitting cinemas across Australia yourself and Craig I mean.
    
Jye    Craig Yeah, so we're doing a Q&A screening tour um, starting in your home town, Newcastle of course, and that's first one that we had in town of the Ritz in Sydney and basically had gone on the road for the month. So we've got 12 cinemas, we're going right down to Melbourne, Adelaide, um, Canberra, Brisbane, Macau.
    
Max    Fantastic. Yeah. Keep the conversation going.
    
Jye    Keep the conversation going. Giving people an opportunity to watch the film before its release next year and then have that opportunity to speak one on one with Craig and myself and ask more questions about the film or Craig's own experience. Uh, we've got lifelong on board, so we're donating all profits to Loughlin.
    
Max    Oh, well done.
    
Jye    And, um, yeah, so there'll be people from waffle on there on the night, and they'll be having a talk as well before the film starts. And, um, the support there, if anyone in the crowd needs it.
    
Max    Fantastic.
    
Jye    And, um, yeah, just, just want to just hold that conversation really keep going and kickstart it.
    
Max    I'm sure it'll be great for you. Those moments when you sat up on stage and it's finally hit you that your project's real. It's it's alive now.
    
Jye    Definitely. Or just on a screen check at the, um, Civic Theater, so.
    
Max    Oh, yeah, Yeah.
    
Jye    It's good.
    
Max    That goes how you expected with a few surprises. People commenting on things that you didn't think could resonate as much or.
    
Jye    Yeah, it's, um. It was just with me and some of the crew, just the technicians. So we just wanted to, um, just go in and just play and get ready for Wednesday and, um, Yeah, but just kind of just saying it. Yeah. Now, in the end, you see it up on the big screen? Yeah. Just of made feel real.
    
Jye    More real. Yeah. Yeah.
    
Max    Finally or after all the way. When did you actually start? If you could remember the stuff, the journey.
    
Jye    Um. Oh, so I call the short film part of pre-production.
    
Max    Yeah.
    
Jye    So if that's the case, August last year, um.
    
Max    That's not too bad. But considering from there to now polished production ready for roadshow and actor nominated like that's that's decent literate.
    
Jye    Well today's the 18th so ten days ago Thomas Ye we released the short film right We released it on the 8th of September last year. Okay. And now the feature will be released on the 20th of September this year.
    
Max    Okay.
    
Jye    So it's about a year between the two releases of the short to the feature.
    
Max    That's actually not bad.
    
Jye    Yeah, considering all went backpacking for.
    
Max    Yeah, well there's that We'll call that a mental health break. Yeah yeah to keep on on topic Yeah well so what's next. Have you ever thought about what's next If you got a few project ideas or anything developed.
    
Jye    Everyone's asking that and I don't know if I've got a good enough answer or do have a script written.
    
Max    Okay, that's a fiction. Okay. Um, what genre? Any clues?
    
Jye    It's, uh, psychological thriller. No romance.
    
Max    Interesting. Yeah.
    
Jye    Okay, So it's essentially a love story, but it's dark.
    
Max    Dark love story.
    
Jye    It's very dark, so somewhat realistic.
    
Max    In my personal experience.
    
Jye    Yeah. So I've got an idea for another doco, but I want to see what, um, what opportunities come from taking it on tour at this. At the moment, my focus obviously is promoting this. I don't want to think too far ahead yet. I want to make sure this lives life that it needs to live. And once it gets to that place, I really start thinking what I'm going to do.
    
Jye    Yeah, yeah.
    
Max    Um, it's a great approach, I think, you know, because it is work.
    
Jye    Yeah.
    
Max    It's not just I mean, you know, you finished it in a falling over the line. You're dragging stuff over the finish line, but it's, it's not over yet. There's still a lot of work in getting it to market and I think that should be acknowledged, like even the road shows, organizing, all that sort of stuff. It doesn't just happen automatically when you make a doco.
    
Max    Those things don't just fall into your lap for those opportunities. So I certainly appreciate from industry perspective, the work continues, but yeah, I'm sure because of just how slick it looks and the actor nomination, the topic as well and how you handled it. I think you know, a lot of people gonna be asking you, what are you doing next.
    
Max    It's a good question Yeah so yeah and and it's great to have people ask that you know they're interested in what you're doing, which is awesome. But in the meantime, as difficult as topic it is, try and enjoy the success, I guess. Definitely.
    
Jye    Yeah. Just, just paving it all for it.
    
Max    And you've got to for a moment. For a moment. Catch your.
    
Jye    Breath. Yeah, definitely. That's great. But yeah, I feel as if the luck and opportunity will open up while we're on the road or something. Yeah, and, um. Yeah.
    
Max    You just never know where, where, where it'll take you. Um. Fantastic. Well, thanks for taking the time to talk to us. Really appreciate it. I know even for an actor like me, I've had a few experiences on non-scripted. Uh, even just the other week on 60 Minutes doing great. Those recreations are great for the Actors Bank account jobs.
    
Max    But anyway, thanks, Jai, for taking the time. Appreciate it. For those of you in Australia, make sure you try and get to the promise on those roadshow screenings for to be able to see it and actually ask you some questions yourselves. And uh, yeah, thanks again for joining us.
    
Jye    Appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Cheers, mate.