Voice Over Casting Director Andy Roth & Two Unemployed Actors Episode 103

Voice Over Casting Director Andy Roth & Two Unemployed Actors Episode 103

00:00:00:06 - 00:00:25:08

MAX

Welcome back to Two Unemployed Actors. I'm Max, and today I'm very happy to be welcoming Andy Roth, award winning producer, voice casting director and voice over teacher. We've got plenty to talk about.

Andy, welcome, mate. How are.

00:00:26:24 - 00:00:32:01

ANDY

Thank you. Hey, it's great to be here. That is the best theme song ever.

00:00:32:01 - 00:00:51:10

MAX

I mean, right? Not only is it in tune because it's not me singing, but it actually explains an artist's journey. We're often in between projects which can be especially as an emerging artists like myself. You know, sometimes the gaps between the projects can be longer than the projects themselves.

00:00:51:12 - 00:00:54:02

ANDY

Yeah, sadly, he said, it's funny because it's true.

00:00:54:06 - 00:00:59:13

MAX

So I apologize if that intro is triggering for you.

00:00:59:15 - 00:01:06:10

ANDY

That's all right. I had somebody. I'll talk about it with them. I pay him a lot. He has to listen.

00:01:06:12 - 00:01:22:00

MAX

Thanks again for making the time. Really appreciate it. I know. And those who have been listening to the podcast for a while that I've sort of have my own voiceover journey. How did you first realize that or when? What was the epiphany when you thought, I can actually make a living out of my voice?

00:01:22:05 - 00:01:54:24

ANDY

To be honest, I never had an epiphany, per se. I was working for a company called Samuel French. They published plays. A lot of people know them, and I was looking for a way to move forward in this business and the opportunity that presented itself. I mean, I had multiple connections to get the interview and then three interviews after that before it presented itself was it was an assistant at the in the voiceover department of a talent agency, which is called CCD.

00:01:54:24 - 00:01:56:10

ANDY

Now, it was…

00:01:56:10 - 00:01:57:20

MAX

Catchy name.

00:01:57:22 - 00:02:26:16

ANDY

Yeah. Thank you. It's yeah, I had nothing to do with it, but I was an assistant in the voiceover department and honestly, that was when I realized voiceover was actually its own thing. You know, I had studied acting in school and I mean, I knew what voiceover was. I knew cartoons, I knew what everybody knows, some commercials and stuff, but I never really thought it was as big as it was, like its own thing.

00:02:26:18 - 00:02:52:24

ANDY

And I loved it and I felt comfortable there. And, and you get to play with a lot of toys in voiceover. There's a lot of recording things and microphones, and I'm kind of a tech nerd. So yeah. And I felt at home and became their in-house booth director and started directing. Most of their voiceover auditions, ran the booth, kept everything running and just loved it.

00:02:52:24 - 00:03:03:17

ANDY

So by the time I realized it was something you could make a living at, I was kind of making a living at it. Yeah, Yeah. But I just didn't even know it was a thing.

00:03:03:21 - 00:03:22:21

MAX

I think that's a great introduction to because even with other actors, like, they know it's a thing like you saying, but it's this mysterious thing that kind of runs in the background of life and we don't really understand you know, it's there. We don't know quite how it works. We know a select special group of individuals, a small one, can make a living out of it.

00:03:22:21 - 00:03:46:08

MAX

But nonetheless, I think that's a great what, like getting in on the ground floor, so to speak. You can really see how things work, learning from other people's mistakes as well as some of the wins. You know, it's a nice way to do it, to build up your knowledge. I think that's a great way and that sort of allow you to say, do I want to go into the into more true aspect of it and the technical side and leave there or perform side?

00:03:46:08 - 00:03:49:07

MAX

I mean, was that a conscious decision?

00:03:49:09 - 00:04:10:05

ANDY

I knew early on I didn't want to act. I mean, I love actors. I love the idea of it, but I never actually enjoyed doing it right. You know, not as a you know, not as a thing like, you know, do a wild line or something like that here and there. But I have an incredible respect for it and what it takes to do it.

00:04:10:05 - 00:04:35:07

ANDY

I would have no career if people didn't want to. I would you know, it would be a pretty lonely job. It's just not where my heart lies in the business. I in the business structure, I'm a headhunter. I find people who do things and connect them with people who want to pay people to do those things. And I hope that they think I am brilliant for making that connection and pay me to do more of that.

00:04:35:09 - 00:04:46:08

ANDY

So yeah, I, I don't know. I love it. I love the whole business. It just acting itself was not where my heart lies. So I figured as much as I can help other people do it, that's great.

00:04:46:08 - 00:04:53:08

MAX

And then your next progression was towards the casting aspect of voice.

00:04:53:10 - 00:05:27:12

ANDY

MM Yeah, I became their in-house booth director, so I directed, you know, all their auditions, got them ready to send out to clients and then but I left after at 127. I left when I was eight years old. I left and I hit the street to, you know, to get myself a job. And I just started I reached out to a lot of the people that I met working at the agency, and I started working freelance mostly for other casting directors and eventually built my own business.

00:05:27:12 - 00:05:37:00

ANDY

And then a bunch of years ago now, I started directing, getting voice, directing offers, and I love that too. So now I cast and direct.

00:05:37:02 - 00:05:57:21

MAX

That's great. I mean, I think that's hitting out with such a wealth of knowledge, you know, it's not like you just went and got some equipment and set up a home studio. Like, I mean, you've got this amazing wealth of knowledge working for a large company that has a presence in the booth directing, casting. I mean, that's that's a great foundation for you to then go, You know what?

00:05:57:21 - 00:06:01:10

MAX

I can do this myself and pick and choose my clients.

00:06:01:12 - 00:06:06:24

ANDY

Thank you. Thank you. Although I will be honest, I don't really pick and choose my clients I.

00:06:06:24 - 00:06:07:21

MAX

Like to.

00:06:07:23 - 00:06:08:20

ANDY

Do.

00:06:08:22 - 00:06:17:06

MAX

I like to. I'm as I said it, I know, but I'm kind of visualizing. I'm like trying to make it come to life, you know, this opportunity for us to sit back and go, Yeah, no.

00:06:17:10 - 00:06:23:13

ANDY

You know, all of my clients. Yes, I chose you because what you do is the best thing.

00:06:23:13 - 00:06:24:12

MAX

You'll have them all.

00:06:24:14 - 00:06:43:12

ANDY

I love them all. I'm incredibly fortunate. I actually. I mean, we're joking around, but I seriously do. I don't think I have a relationship with anybody. I it's it's this is not a business. I mean, you know, this is not a business you get into to be alone. You know, you don't do this to sit in a cubicle by yourself.

00:06:43:12 - 00:07:06:08

ANDY

Not that there's anything wrong with that. That's a great job. And you know, your life is what you want your life to be. But you get into this business generally because you want to interface with people, you want to connect minds, you want to do things creatively. You want to compensate for things you. So relationships do form, especially under stressful situations.

00:07:06:10 - 00:07:24:18

ANDY

So yeah, I really I really do appreciate all of my clients, all the people that hire me, all the people that I hire. Yeah, it is a business of relationships. And honestly, in this business, I've said it before in classes, it's not who you know, it's who knows you. Yeah, you know, And I.

00:07:24:18 - 00:07:38:21

MAX

Think that's great because it's important to to like as an artist, obviously, you know, you're so focused on what it is you do bringing characters to life, for example, in whatever format. But you have to really appreciate the business that you're in too.

00:07:39:02 - 00:08:18:09

ANDY

Yeah. And the relationships that form, I mean, no matter how great you are, you'll work and get opportunities really for one reason and one reason only. Somebody wants you to have those opportunities and somebody wants you to have that work. And it's not always because they love you and want to help you, but they want you to have it because they know that what you bring to it is the right thing and not just your ability to deliver lines and your delivery to your your ability to execute a character, but your ability to exist in the room with the dynamic of whatever the room is, your ability to exist with the tight or lease deadlines.

00:08:18:09 - 00:08:44:08

ANDY

When we want you to play and have fun and fool around and come up with stuff or when we need to just buckle down. And these are the words in the script and this is what needs to happen and it needs to happen by 2:00. If we've called you and asked you to audition, if we hired you, whatever we know about you has already told us that you are the person that can get this job done in the job environment.

00:08:44:10 - 00:09:12:24

ANDY

Because, I mean, you know, nobody wants to work harder than we absolutely need to. We want to make everything efficient and the best it can be. So. So yeah, it is. It's a business of connection to business of relationships. And I know in all, even in my end of things, I know it can feel really alone. Yeah, but whatever you're going through, there's somebody two houses over that's going through the same thing and whatever problems you're had, there's somebody out there working on that problem.

00:09:13:01 - 00:09:21:19

ANDY

And when I started in this business, it was very different. Now there are communities, you know, it's social and things like that where you can share.

00:09:21:21 - 00:09:46:22

MAX

I'm interested to know too, like on the other side of the booth where, you know, often we'll get some, some zany direction sometimes or some feedback, and we have to turn that into a whole different type of performance. Have you have you had those moments where it's been quite challenging to provide direction to an artist in the booth where they're not receiving it the right way or it's just difficult to sort of get the performance.

00:09:46:22 - 00:09:52:01

MAX

It's you have to work a bit harder, I guess a bit smarter on how you get that performance that you need for the client.

00:09:52:03 - 00:10:27:22

ANDY

Yeah, Yeah. No, I've never had that experience. Wow. No, I'm. I'm only, you know, I'm going to be honest, it's been smooth sailing since day one now, but it's. Well, I mean, there's always there's direct when when we put direction on a page, like a lot of direction that the actors get, I put there. But sometimes something comes from the client and it can be difficult to sort through like the direction that's meant for me to understand as opposed to the action that's meant for the actor to actually process.

00:10:27:22 - 00:10:52:21

ANDY

Like if somebody said something to me and says, We need unique voices. Well, I mean, to be honest, the actor doesn't need to see that, you know, it's like I will find the people that I find have the unique voices in the context of whatever my client would consider unique. For that, I'm giving that to an actor. A lot of actors will just write it off and know what it is, but some would be like, Okay, how do I be unique?

00:10:52:21 - 00:11:12:16

ANDY

It's like, Well, you're not going to know. You don't know what anybody else is doing. So what you can know is what you come up with as being unique is probably what everybody else trying to be. Unique is also going to come up with. It's important for people to know that they are unique when direction is out there.

00:11:12:18 - 00:11:49:10

ANDY

It's meant to be understood. Sometimes it's vague, but it's never intentional. It's never about hiding clues. My first bit of advice to give an actor is is make the choices you feel are right. All we can ever ask of an actor is make the choices that you feel to write based on the information that you have from the direction, from the script, and from maybe any knowledge of the casting director, the director, the studio, the producer, the campaign, anything you may know, the world or people who call you tend to call you in for a certain kind of thing.

00:11:49:12 - 00:12:16:18

ANDY

Make the choices that you feel are right based on the information you have. Do those choices and change them when and if you're asked to change them. A direction is really meant to help you. Now, I'm I'm realistic sometimes it just doesn't. But when you get a direction that's hard to process, first thing I would advise people to do is if you have the option, ask a question from the source.

00:12:16:20 - 00:12:37:21

ANDY

If a casting director sent it to you directly. My first bit of advice is I don't care if you're on a train and you're getting the email on your phone, you don't have to record it right there or shoot it, but you can look at it and if something comes up and you're like, I don't know what this means or I don't understand this reference or What do you mean spicy or, you know, something?

00:12:37:23 - 00:12:57:19

ANDY

A term we throw in there, ask right away. You may not get an answer and you know, or if it came from your agent, you may not get an answer. You may not even be able to ask. You know, you might not have a person to go to if you don't make the choice that you feel is right.

00:12:57:21 - 00:13:21:02

ANDY

You got to trust your choices are the right choices, and know that if you're off the beam, you're probably not the only one. Everybody's getting the same direction you're getting. Nobody's trying to trick you. Nobody's trying to hide anything from you. So look at it and make the choices. And if you need to completely throw the direction away, then do that.

00:13:21:02 - 00:13:41:14

ANDY

I mean, I don't I there are people that say, don't ever look at the direction. I think honestly, off the record. Well, we're filming. It's on the record. I guess that's a horrible thing to tell. People always look at direction. It's meant to help you. If you decide it doesn't, then throw it away and know that whatever you've written is going to kind of sit in your brain anyway.

00:13:41:16 - 00:14:01:05

MAX

Yeah, I think that that really resonates with me because where I've sort of found my kind of niche when it comes to voiceover work is because of my corporate experience. I'm able to get that, you know, that written by committee copy with all the corporate jargon and deliver it in this kind of relaxed and relatable sort of way.

00:14:01:07 - 00:14:23:04

MAX

And sometimes it's a challenge. I mean, there was one that comes to mind a German company that manufactures nuts and bolts. I mean, that was pretty dry and trying to it took every fiber of my talent to to make it sound kind of almost fun and engaging. But and then it's different to kind of if it's an instructional, you know, you're helping someone learn something in the organization versus, you know, I'm I know you absolutely get that.

00:14:23:04 - 00:14:48:10

MAX

I think sometimes, you know, they might if you're dealing directly with a client, as I've done a few times, you know, they'll tell you what they want, but how they tell you like you have to process that differently. And I guess that's where you come in. You're like the diplomat. You've got the client telling you one thing and you're like, Oh God, I can't say it in that way to get to get the right performance that I know they want, you know?

00:14:48:10 - 00:14:55:06

MAX

So you're kind of having to manage your communication between two very vested interest interests.

00:14:55:08 - 00:15:04:23

ANDY

Absolutely. I mean, that is that is part of my job. The other part of my job is to take the blame when it doesn't work out to the teaching moments.

00:15:04:23 - 00:15:06:08

MAX

I think that's what you guys.

00:15:06:10 - 00:15:30:21

ANDY

Yeah, it's really if if I submit a casting to a client as per their specs, you know, as I understand, if the client's not happy, I've never seen them remember the actors on the list and be like, okay, these are all bad actors. They will blame me. They'll blame me for not directing. Right, though blame me for calling in people that don't match the spec, but I've never seen.

00:15:30:21 - 00:15:49:24

ANDY

It feels from the actors standpoint, I understand or feels like, okay, you didn't do the job, but that's not the way anybody else sees it. People will see the casting director didn't, and maybe or maybe the client will feel they missed, wrote the spec and they want to change the spec. That also happens.

00:15:50:01 - 00:16:08:10

MAX

That's a great that's a great idea because that's a great point. Because so many actors can feel like, what am I done wrong? You know, it hasn't worked out what you know. And there's just I think that's where it's key. The more you understand how the business works as an artist, the easier it will be to digest these these moments.

00:16:08:12 - 00:16:33:16

ANDY

And realizing that every audition and audition is kind of like a first date. It's not. It's not always about the job. Sometimes you're going to get the job or not because you sound like somebody's best friend or you sound a lot like the other person or not enough like the other person or there's a million things. Sometimes it's you said orange instead of orange, and sometimes it works the other way.

00:16:33:18 - 00:17:10:14

ANDY

So there are so many other factors. But one thing that people I think should know is I cast a lot of TV. I don't just do commercials. And some of the shows that I cast have like 50 roles. I'm not going to put out 50 sites. I'll put out five, six, eight, depending on sort of the ranges. I'll put out the one for women 25 to 45, even though 45 may be the wrong voice for the character I'm putting aside out for that side carries a vibe with it that is right for other characters that people don't even know exists.

00:17:10:16 - 00:17:31:18

ANDY

So what I'm doing is I'm getting things in for, okay, here's a scene where the lovers are fighting. Here is the scene where the wizard is fighting the elf. You know, and I'll start pulling things from that for other roles. So it's not even just about the sides. I'm going to get this job or I'm not. It's about all the other stuff.

00:17:31:18 - 00:17:54:24

ANDY

Sometimes I'll get a vibe people send to takes on something, which I usually ask for. A lot of people don't, but they'll send two takes and that will tell me, okay, I may not know this person that well, but I have these five smaller roles and maybe I'll just give them all five of these smaller roles. I one of the shows I direct is a show called Too Hot to Handle.

00:17:54:24 - 00:18:20:03

ANDY

I directed Brazil and Germany, those two versions of it and I cast one of the seasons and there was somebody I really felt was great for it. I didn't direct Season one of Brazil. I directed Season two and the director was terrific director in season one and I had done the casting and there was one person that I really felt was right for it, and I presented that to the director.

00:18:20:03 - 00:18:45:16

ANDY

But it wasn't my decision, and the director went with somebody else who was also absolutely terrific and somebody that I work with all the time and is great just I might have put them in another role if I was think if I was doing it. But but that went on and that happened. So season two, they brought me in to direct it and I called up this person that didn't get it the first time.

00:18:45:16 - 00:19:07:19

ANDY

And I was like, Can I submit you? And they were like, Listen, yeah, of course. They said, What do you want me to read? I said, I don't. I want to send the audition from last season. And they were like, But that didn't get me the job. I was like, No, but it could have. And and that person did end up booking season two in, in a major role.

00:19:07:21 - 00:19:37:03

ANDY

So not getting the job, it doesn't mean you're not going to get something else out of it. I called a person in once for to read for the first animated series I directed. I thought they were great. I thought they were terrific. The the people on the mothership didn't agree. He didn't get the gig. But a friend of mine who was casting another series who didn't know him, they hadn't been connected, asked me for advice on, Oh, I need somebody who sounds kind of like this.

00:19:37:03 - 00:20:04:04

ANDY

Who do you recommend? And I recommended that person and they booked a lead role in a very, very well-known animated series. Yeah. Which was actually a really cool job, But yeah, I. Well, jealous, but okay. No, but also really happy because this is how it goes. Like I said earlier, it's not who you know in this business. It's who knows you.

00:20:04:05 - 00:20:32:08

ANDY

Yeah, people who know you. Even from an audition you didn't book. We'll start to feel like we know what you do. Start to know how we can use you, what holes we can plug in and plug you into. And like any other relationship that grows the amount that you can incorporate, the amount you learn about a person. So that's really all an audition is, you know, I mean, nobody books most things unless you're already a celeb, you know?

00:20:32:11 - 00:20:51:01

MAX

But that's the business. Exactly. And I think the quicker you sort of learn your own way to deal with that and move forward productively, constructively, you know that the best, the more you wallow in what could have been should have been. I mean, you know, there's so many of those in the business. We used to going round in circles.

00:20:51:03 - 00:21:24:21

MAX

That's really interesting. I think when you mention to, you know, getting a couple of takes. So when I see that, I'll kind of I'll be doing the best I can to to deliver what I think you want in the first take. And this is the best version of that and this is what I think you really want. And then the second take, I'll try and do it a bit differently time on is that it does different between job or between audition or is that kind of where you've got an opportunity to see how different, how versatile people are?

00:21:24:21 - 00:21:29:08

MAX

Or do you just want to of the best possible takes for that particular role?

00:21:29:10 - 00:21:57:04

ANDY

That's totally terrible way to handle it. No, I'm just kidding. I if if we asked for two takes, there's a lot of reasons why we might be doing that. We might be doing that because there's a couple other ways the role could go. You know, I've had things that I put out there that like, Oh, could be Kenneth Branagh, but could be Jack Black a lot of, you know, try one with an accent without an accent.

00:21:57:06 - 00:22:21:02

ANDY

There are things like that that we put out there. There are sides that I put out there that said, give me something different, because there are a lot of different roles in this and I'm seeing what else they might use you for. There's also honestly times when there's just not going to be a lot of range, you know, and maybe a slight difference, a slight rhythm.

00:22:21:02 - 00:22:43:08

ANDY

What we don't want and things like that, like in commercials, generally, if it's a one liner, you know, the world is germs. You have Purell. Yeah. It's what you can do with that is fairly limited. I mean, it means we don't want to sound like you copied and pasted the same thing three times. If we ask you for three in a row, it's not just because we want to hear you longer.

00:22:43:09 - 00:23:04:02

ANDY

Yeah, you know we can do that ourselves. There are a lot of different ways to deliver it, find it. But what I do recommend is that people don't labor over it. Sometimes just your hand position can change the re. There's a way that you sound when your palms are up, when your palms are down, and when your palms are out.

00:23:04:04 - 00:23:33:03

ANDY

The world is germs. You appear out. The world has germs, you appear out. The world is germs. You have Purell. Three different physical positions, three different attitudes, three. And then listen back and see if it not only if it's different, but if it makes sense. Because at the end of the day, unless we've specifically asked you to go way off the beam and not care, it does still need to match the script.

00:23:33:03 - 00:23:36:14

ANDY

I mean, it still needs something appropriate for what we're working on.

00:23:36:16 - 00:23:46:16

MAX

That's really great. Yeah, absolutely. Especially the physicality, bringing the physicality in which you don't think of automatically when you think of, you know, being in a booth with a microphone. It's it's.

00:23:46:16 - 00:24:13:15

ANDY

Very physical. But yeah, it's really yeah, your brain has different ways to manifest your personality. Any relationship you've ever had in life with somebody good, bad or otherwise came from a connection of you manifesting the way that you manifest in a three dimensional real world environment where you're sharing the space between you. And at the end of the day, I'm never really going to know what you think.

00:24:13:17 - 00:24:42:01

ANDY

I'm going to know what your body does, what your mouth says, and your personality. As it happens in this business, in a predetermined sequence of events called a script that honestly I know better than you anyway, the casting director spends more time with the script than an actor's ever going to be able to do. I know more about it, and I kind of know how it's going to come out, and that's why I reach out to the people I reach out to, because I feel that by default they're generally going to get there.

00:24:42:03 - 00:25:01:10

ANDY

Yeah, it's not your job to prove you're a great actor. It's your job to not prove that you are it. Everything I know about you from space and connection that we've shared is what is told me that you are absolutely right for this. Or if I haven't met you, maybe your agent or manager who knows me says and is really going to click with this person.

00:25:01:10 - 00:25:24:04

ANDY

When Andy says Quirky, this is what he means. And that's this person or Andy likes this sense of humor or a friend that reached out or something. I heard somewhere maybe looking at your real on YouTube, you've been saying this person is the right person, but if you're there, it's because they want you there. And all of that is because of stuff you actually did not stop.

00:25:24:04 - 00:25:50:15

ANDY

You actually thought and the way you manifest your personality to another entity, usually a human, but I don't know, a plant dog or a wall. We talked to lots of things. Embracing that physicality is actually going to bring out your personality more than trying to think of a thing and duplicate that thing you were thinking. Does that make sense?

00:25:50:19 - 00:26:14:10

ANDY

Because I mean, you're like your brain world is very different than your physical world in your brain. You've never lost a fight, you've never missed a funny comeback. You've never needed an umbrella or a sweater or a shower. You've never had hiccups, you've never farted, had that dry mouth. Nothing's ever gone wrong in your brain. So we tend to analyze and think that that's the best possible read, but that's actually an impossible read.

00:26:14:12 - 00:26:34:18

MAX

I think sometimes when I get stuck on a particular way of delivering a line, even if it's a self type for an audition as an actor and not not as a voiceover artist, you know, I get stuck on a particular way. I'll change the physicality up just just to try and loosen my brain from thinking this is how you've got to do it, because that's somehow why you've manifested it in your mind.

00:26:34:20 - 00:27:02:06

ANDY

You know, it's so, it's so different. Yeah. I mean, and plus your, your instincts, your reactions tend to manifest physically. I mean, they just do. So I think it's great. Plus, acting is a physics term that means doing something that has an effect on something else. That is the definition of acting as per physics. If I can't take a picture of it or record it, it's not an act.

00:27:02:08 - 00:27:11:07

ANDY

And if you're thinking it, the only picture that I'm going to get of you is a picture of a guy thinking, which is boring.

00:27:11:09 - 00:27:32:21

MAX

When you spell it out like that. It's like such common sense, you know? But we sometimes forget. We get locked onto things and overanalyze things as we do sometimes. But that's really great advice and thank you. I think looking at the world of voice over there is like you've touched on commercials, you've touched on animation. You know, there's video games.

00:27:32:21 - 00:27:56:10

MAX

There's also like the it's just it's it's a corporate work. Obviously, there's there's heaps of categories where the delivery is a different and, you know, the guardrails are kind of somewhat set loosely, but nonetheless they're there and they're all very different to each other. Which are there particular areas where you gravitate to more than others based on where you experience, etc.?

00:27:56:13 - 00:28:05:03

MAX

Like for example, is animation and that because you're most passionate about it? Or is that just what's naturally developed?

00:28:05:05 - 00:28:40:11

ANDY

Honestly, I, I love my job. It's not casting animated series as opposed to a live action series as opposed to a commercial, anything like that. I will say I haven't done a lot of video games. I certainly would. But casting all of that, I can get excited about a project, but the process itself tends to be similar. Maybe what I'm looking for in a different context changes a bit because it's relevant to that context.

00:28:40:13 - 00:29:08:07

ANDY

But reading the script, having the discussions with the producers or the director, if I'm not the director, analyzing things, asking questions, they're finding all of this stuff out and doing the calculus and finding out who the answers are. That's the fun part of my job, and that really doesn't change all that much from job to job, you know?

00:29:08:07 - 00:29:31:03

ANDY

And also there's what is the job pay? Is it union? Is it nonunion? What's the period of time? Where does it record? Is it remote? If it's somewhere else is, what's the personality of the other people that will be in the room? There's so many factors that I really love putting together and saying, I don't know if this person will do this job, but I know that they can do this job.

00:29:31:05 - 00:29:42:02

ANDY

And now it's my job to prove to that other person that this person is great at what they do. And more importantly, that I am a genius for finding them.

00:29:42:04 - 00:29:42:24

MAX

Lead with that.

00:29:42:24 - 00:29:52:05

ANDY

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I look like a very selfish person and, you know, and my selfishness, you know, is.

00:29:52:07 - 00:30:08:12

MAX

You know, in all seriousness, you know, that's the business, it's reputation. And I guess that's that's a that's a critical part. Like how you market yourself, how you conduct yourself. And I guess there's a lot of it that's word of mouth. And people have work with you and they like to know what they going to get. So it's kind of a safer bet because a.

00:30:08:12 - 00:30:12:09

ANDY

Lot of that, you know, they expect me and yeah, you know.

00:30:12:11 - 00:30:34:10

MAX

But I guess I guess that's interesting because when you look at it from the outside looking in. Yeah, like animation so different to video game to AI, to all this other stuff. But yeah, at the end of the day you're, you're trying to help clients bring characters to life, like wherever format whatever genre that might be. Yeah. And so yeah.

00:30:34:12 - 00:30:58:09

ANDY

They want to do like you talked before about like a certain kind of script being drier or maybe it's a situation where it's a lot of medical terminology and somebody, an actor doesn't necessarily understand everything they're saying, Well, there's a reason they didn't get a doctor to do it is understanding. It does not necessarily mean it's going to be great, but it means something to somebody, somebody is feeling it's somebody cares about it.

00:30:58:09 - 00:31:24:03

ANDY

And the person on the receiving end of this final product is ideally going to understand it and relate to it as this person that they will regard as a colleague saying what they're saying. And there's certain personalities and generic qualities, voice type, if it's on camera, of course, height or eye color, hair color, things like that. But, you know, voice type is a genetic trait.

00:31:24:03 - 00:31:29:19

ANDY

And that also factors into it. So, yeah, it's fun. It's a fun puzzle. I like putting it together.

00:31:29:21 - 00:31:37:02

MAX

That's great. It does sound like fun. I'm glad and I'm glad you enjoy your job as much as you do. And that kind of helps.

00:31:37:08 - 00:31:41:14

ANDY

A lot, right? Yeah, it can be a really tedious Davis You're not.

00:31:41:16 - 00:32:02:14

MAX

Especially dealing with those character building moments, I think, and speaking of those, like what have been some of the challenges that you've had some really key to sort of that have to be these defining moments, but like how have you sort of overcome that and have that sort of changed in what sort of challenges you now this is what challenges you when you were that assistant in the booth.

00:32:02:16 - 00:32:38:14

ANDY

Right? Well, when I was an assistant and an assistant, the challenge is are very different challenges. You know, you're you're have to figure out the person right above you and what they really want and the priorities. And sometimes that takes time. And that's the dynamics of an office. Yeah, but as far as challenges in casting, I will say one thing that was a challenge initially, but now I love it and I think it's an incredibly great thing to have happened.

00:32:38:16 - 00:33:09:07

ANDY

Was the call for it for authenticity in casting, authenticity, diversion, diversity, sorry, inclusion in the beginning. I will be honest, sometimes it was a little difficult. You know, there are people of different backgrounds and it became harder to find people to do the job. You couldn't just go to your normal goatees and for a while it was it was a little difficult.

00:33:09:07 - 00:33:33:02

ANDY

There are resources out there that have since popped up and things like that. But what I realized once we actually started caring about it and there are certain people out there that were that are in grumblings that I hear actually some famous people that I've heard talk about it on TV that are like, Oh, you should just hire who's best for the job and it shouldn't matter.

00:33:33:02 - 00:33:53:16

ANDY

And at first I did think that a little bit because I always just assumed I was and I hired I've hired her amazing people and people that have done great jobs. And at first I thought that because I did actually think that I had, you know, all the best actors and I had like I said, I'm going to really hammer this home.

00:33:53:18 - 00:34:26:22

ANDY

I had amazing people. I've never worked with anybody I didn't think was amazing. But once I started really seeking out the authentic casting on certain projects, I started realizing that there was a knowledge that people were bringing to it. There was a series that I worked on that had a transgender role, and, you know, I brought in we we ended up casting a transgender person, which was the first thing we look.

00:34:26:22 - 00:34:48:05

ANDY

And there were lines in this project that I actually thought were wrong that I would have actually rewritten. And this person said, No, that's actually how we say it. That's actually how we said, and here is the origin of it. There was a project that worked on, it was a Turkish project, and this was very, very authentically Turkish.

00:34:48:05 - 00:35:17:06

ANDY

It dealt with two generations of Turkish culture. The kids who are now grown up dealing with something that happened when they were younger and their parents culture, and we were looking for authentic casting. We felt, especially because of the subject matter, we really need to look authentic first. And there's this one scene where there was this death and this scene where this young girl is dancing to what sounds to me like an upbeat song on the radio.

00:35:17:08 - 00:35:39:09

ANDY

And the mother comes and slaps her and says, Don't listen to that. And and I thought, okay, it's a sad scene. She shouldn't be listening to an upbeat song. But the woman who played the role explained to me that the woman who sang this song in particular had been abused and disfigured and was singing a song about that.

00:35:39:09 - 00:36:12:12

ANDY

And then after the song came out, she was she actually died tragically. And that kind of authenticity was like, okay, next level. Even if it didn't, even if not everything comes across to the audience, you know, an American audience, just knowing it does bring an understanding and a depth. And it's not an always situation. But now that it's opened the floodgates, now I feel we really are genuinely hiring the best actors for the job.

00:36:12:14 - 00:36:40:24

ANDY

And it goes beyond just the ability to execute a script. It comes with stuff that you wouldn't even necessarily know to research. It comes with stuff you're born with, stuff you grow up with. And you know, there's still a lot of roles for everybody. And if a role is in an animated series, if it's one person screaming, running away from an earthquake, okay, we don't necessarily have to get super specific about that.

00:36:41:01 - 00:37:16:24

ANDY

But every role that's given, every role that's drawn, every person that's picked is picked for a reason. And I feel that authentic casting and diversity and inclusion really respects the reason. It respects the thinking behind the project. And I really genuinely feel like it makes everything better. So it was it was definitely a challenge in the beginning, and it was a challenge that I admittedly and I'm not proud of it, but I did put up a little fight on it in the beginning because again, I didn't believe I was a part of this problem, but I was.

00:37:17:01 - 00:37:24:16

ANDY

But now I'm grateful, you know, I'm grateful that it's out there and I just have a bigger pool of amazing people.

00:37:24:18 - 00:37:42:16

MAX

That's really interesting. And and and what a great way to to to discuss what would have certainly been a challenge. You know, quite a bit of change for the industry and a lot of people sort of naturally some people take to change better than others. I was like, well, it's working the way it is. Like, why? Why don't we just not broken?

00:37:42:16 - 00:38:10:12

MAX

You know, we don't need to change. But there's a whole lot of people who are like, My voice isn't really heard, help me. Right? And there's that initial change over bit. But, but then I think it's really interesting that you talk about that as a challenge because you absolutely get that from a performer perspective. And I think that all of a sudden when you unlock or fit authenticity in these types of roles, it unlocks the ability to bring up all these subtexts and things that you wouldn't normally know, which is just great.

00:38:10:12 - 00:38:14:01

MAX

How you touched on that. I love that. That's great.

00:38:14:03 - 00:38:15:17

ANDY

Thanks. Now.

00:38:15:19 - 00:38:50:13

MAX

Another one key challenge, I think, for voice actors, voiceover artists in particular is is the home studio. It unlocks opportunities on the one hand, like geographically great and also financially. There are some budgets that perhaps don't extend to having a studio, an audio engineer and all the rest of it. But then there's this whole other world of problems that can that you can you can encounter as someone who's more focused on delivering the line than how to record it, press the right button in the right order.

00:38:50:15 - 00:38:56:05

MAX

How you've seen people deal with that, rightly or wrongly, in your experience?

00:38:56:07 - 00:39:18:10

ANDY

Well, I mean, it is the the the good thing about the home studio situation is everything you said. Plus it doesn't change your studio is your studio. What I would recommend to people and it's not a direct answer to your question, but I will answer it is everybody should have a website. If you don't exist on the web, you don't exist.

00:39:18:11 - 00:39:41:10

ANDY

Don't assume that everybody knows or is going to find you. But if voiceover is a part of what you do and you have a decent home studio, I highly recommend in addition, any demos you may have or samples or whatever, which you may or may not have, everybody can have a studio sample, which is a little recording of them in their booth.

00:39:41:10 - 00:40:06:21

ANDY

Unprocessed. You can edit out a stumble or whatever, but don't clean it up. No compression, no noise gate, nothing like that. And just be like, Hi, I'm Andy Roth. I'm here in my studio. This is what it sounds like. I'm talking into such and such. Make with such and such interface. I record on Reaper or ProTools or Audacity or whatever your program is and just a little something.

00:40:06:21 - 00:40:33:08

ANDY

And this is how my my audio sounds. This is unprocessed, not cleaned up audio. It's a really great thing because one thing that people do run into is if you're if you come into the studio and you're recording on a Sennheiser 416 or a monumental hammer some really high end microphones. Yeah yeah, yeah that the ones that the studios have.

00:40:33:11 - 00:40:49:20

ANDY

Yeah, Well that's great. You're in the studio and we can control it and it's a really nice booth and it'll sound consistent because it's the same equipment in the same space or an equivalent space, but then you go home and we might need a one line pickup. There might be one thing we need to change. We may need to change it fast.

00:40:49:20 - 00:41:15:01

ANDY

And so you can do it from your home, knowing the microphones, knowing the sound alikes, things like that. There are also times, if it's a regular gig, that studios have sent out what they call a kit, which is the microphone you need with a certain sound proofing and things like that, it doesn't happen more than it does, but it is an option.

00:41:15:03 - 00:41:43:24

ANDY

But things like that duplication can be an issue. You as an actor, you're not a studio, you don't have 500 really high end mics laying around. I mean, maybe you do, but your average actor doesn't. So that can be a thing. I mean, studios tend to be realistic about the situation. It is definitely something that you should have as far as the tech stuff goes.

00:41:44:01 - 00:42:05:11

ANDY

My advice, unless you're like me and I think you like a kind of a nerd about this stuff, like I like learning off and playing with toys. Yes. Learn only what you need to learn. You know, the programs you get will do a million things, but you only need to do two of them. So learn those two things and don't worry about the other stuff.

00:42:05:13 - 00:42:24:22

ANDY

There is this pressure that we put on ourselves that, Oh my God, I have Pro Tools. I need to learn these 7 billion things that CBS is doing with Pro Tools, and you don't. So do the minimum. Learn the minimum, get it sounded good and no resources that you can get to quickly if you do need help.

00:42:24:24 - 00:42:46:09

MAX

That's great advice. That's so good. Because I remember, like I, I auditioned for this job and I got it and it was recording from home, which was great. But then but the budget I mean, the budget was good. It's only happened a few times, but this is early on right now. I've got this tiny $80 wireless guy, Mike, that I plug into my phone to do sometimes as an actor.

00:42:46:11 - 00:43:04:14

MAX

And I thought, I can't in good conscience, you know. So I went and I used some of that budget to to get a nice microphone and an interface. And I remember in the store I did I've done a bit of research. We're talking YouTube research and real research. But I, I knew some of the questions to ask you.

00:43:04:14 - 00:43:06:07

ANDY

This is the thing, right?

00:43:06:10 - 00:43:21:17

MAX

And so there I was with this huge, expensive interface in front of me and all the bells and whistles it does. And then I had said to myself, But I don't I don't want to buy that. Like I don't because I don't need that, because I record the software at home. And I had the moment as well with the software audition is what?

00:43:21:18 - 00:43:40:22

MAX

And it's got so many things like I'm confident even now I need 1% of it, but that's fine. That's what I need. It gets me work, but it gets the job done. Then I can pass that file to audio engineers who actually know the rest of audition, for example. I don't use and I think I think it's so easy.

00:43:40:24 - 00:43:59:20

MAX

Be overwhelmed. So I felt that absolutely on those two occasions, trying to negotiate my way through the software for the first time, trying to work out the hardware choices because there's so many. And sometimes the most expensive isn't always the right, the right up, right. Yeah. So that really hit home. That's great advice.

00:43:59:22 - 00:44:07:21

ANDY

It's so smart to just it's sort of like, you know, you go to a big open buffet and you're like, I have to eat all this. It's like, you don't.

00:44:07:23 - 00:44:11:17

MAX

I'm going to get value for money. I need to use every everything.

00:44:11:19 - 00:44:23:17

ANDY

You have some string beans, a little pop, be done with it if you want it. Yeah. You know the plate there are only so big you don't need to describe a serving plate.

00:44:23:17 - 00:44:45:16

MAX

But I love that example. Oh, my God. But I think. Yeah, that's. That's, that's such, that's really cool advice I love, I think it's great to really just stick to what you know because I think when you're in a if you have that luxury, that opportunity, be in a room with an audio engineer to see just how intuitively they just it's like it's like watching a wizard.

00:44:45:18 - 00:44:55:18

MAX

It's just amazing how they can really You think it sounds amazing and then they go and tweak a few little buttons and they've adjusted for the room. They've adjusted. It's it's phenomenal what they can do.

00:44:55:20 - 00:45:09:24

ANDY

Don't pretend you can do that. It's Like watching a concert pianist, right? Like, Yeah, I know. And listening to it and go, what do you have like eight hands? Is that how you do that? And was Yeah, I think the.

00:45:10:01 - 00:45:32:10

MAX

First time I was in that situation and they were actually using audition as well and I just this whole other layer of competence and I, I guess I'd talk about it now because still because you think about the casting, you think about the performance, you think about the client, you think about what the output supposed to look like, but you don't often consider the genius in the middle.

00:45:32:12 - 00:45:51:13

MAX

So it really it really brought it home to me. And that also reassured me that, look, you know what my set up, it delivers the audio quality the best it can be that unlocks the jobs that I've got. That's great. So I'm doing something right. Don't try and layer it with all the complexities and all of that.

00:45:51:15 - 00:45:55:18

ANDY

Yeah. The more you do, the more opportunity for problems you do.

00:45:55:18 - 00:46:25:18

MAX

The wrong thing. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, that's I get that. I believe that look. And as for, for those emerging artists out there, voiceover, it's like a magical kingdom that's even smaller than acting, you know? And I say that from a perspective of coming into it. It can seem like this. It's hard to find the right connections, like, for example, getting an agent to unlock those larger jobs.

00:46:25:20 - 00:46:43:03

MAX

I mean, certainly it's hard as an actor and there's different ways to go about getting on the radar and unlocking that opportunity of being able to work with an agent. And I'm not saying that getting an agent means you don't have to do any more work on that front. They'll just do everything for you. You certainly not. We know that.

00:46:43:03 - 00:46:52:19

MAX

Right? But what advice would you give an emerging artist when it comes to voice to to to get to get an agent?

00:46:52:21 - 00:47:14:04

ANDY

Well, I actually really like the way that you phrased it. So many people use the term break in, like, how do you break into voiceover? And it's like, there's no breaking in. Nobody's trying to keep you out. You know, you just there's a billion doors and windows and holes in the wall and, you know, a million ways in and you'll find yours.

00:47:14:06 - 00:47:44:04

ANDY

But what I will say, going back to the beginning where I said, it's not who you know, it's who knows you an audition itself, even a remote audition that you do at home. And Simon and I listened later. It's a very intimate connection in a totally ethically appropriate way, you know. But we are in each other's heads. We are sharing something, we are sharing personalities, we're sharing connections, we're sharing information or projections about work, ethics and things like that.

00:47:44:06 - 00:48:08:23

ANDY

The the yeah, I have found the best way to do that outside of an audition, which what we're talking about is trying to get those auditions is in a class. Being in a class with somebody and classes are not always about they actually shouldn't be about. I let me forget that I know stuff and go back to ground zero and you know more than you think you do.

00:48:09:00 - 00:48:23:24

ANDY

Do some research on classes, but find out who's taking what classes that they like, that they don't like, what they've gotten out of a class is never an offer guarantee of work, at least not a legitimate class. It's not a.

00:48:24:02 - 00:48:26:03

MAX

Guarantees in this business.

00:48:26:05 - 00:48:45:18

ANDY

So it's not a guarantee that somebody is going to help you. It's not a guarantee of a job. It is a guarantee that somebody will know you better at what you do. That's a guarantee. It's a guarantee that it's at least the beginning of a relationship that may or may not go anywhere. But it is a guarantee of that of the connections of the other people in the class.

00:48:45:18 - 00:48:53:15

ANDY

I, I teach classes at Terry Knickerbocker Studios, which is really which is really great.

00:48:53:17 - 00:48:58:17

MAX

Yeah. We've had Terry on the show. I got a great source for actors.

00:48:58:19 - 00:49:04:19

ANDY

Back and I've actually seen him act two. Really. He's really good.

00:49:04:21 - 00:49:07:15

MAX

Because he kind of downplays that. Like he talks about.

00:49:07:17 - 00:49:31:14

ANDY

You know, he doesn't talk about it and, you know, he's this kind of like mellow guy and he kind of like, okay, I'm like, if anything ever really bothered you, like, but I've actually seen him act. And I was like, I was kind of blown away. I was like, I was because I, you know, I mean, I taught at major universities and, you know, places like that.

00:49:31:14 - 00:49:56:06

ANDY

And there are some really, really great teachers that you're not. ACT Terry definitely knows both sides of that. Like, you know, part of why I love teaching at Terry's school, which I mean, I'm an adjunct too, but I love being a part of it, is there is that kind of connection. There is that kind of community. Yeah. Yeah.

00:49:56:08 - 00:50:18:04

ANDY

There's always like a sounding board of even another student, which, which I really like in addition to beyond just I hear, you know, here's how you add skills There's like that okay you walk out the door, how do you not just walk out the door and go, what now? Yeah. So? So I do like that. It really is important.

00:50:18:04 - 00:51:04:12

ANDY

And I'm not saying that necessarily as a plug for that one particular school. That's an example I've met students in classes that I have said you have to read for this. You happen to be exactly what they're looking for. I've met students in classes that I love that I have not had that opportunity for. Again, nothing is a guarantee, but the possibility is out there and it's that really is because the class environment is really, in my experience, the best place to simulate not an audition exam necessarily, but that connection that we are in each other's heads with a limited amount of time and a certain amount of material working at a certain end goal.

00:51:04:14 - 00:51:18:24

ANDY

And we have no choice but to be the worker bees to mind meld and just work on our little side of the honeycomb and trust that everybody else is going to make it that perfect little hex cream, is it?

00:51:19:01 - 00:51:32:13

MAX

I was going to say there's so many pieces to the puzzle. You know, we've got our vision of what the puzzle looks like and hopefully it's what everyone is looking at and we work hard to make sure our piece fits. And yeah, I love I love analogies. They're just.

00:51:32:15 - 00:51:34:03

ANDY

You.

00:51:34:05 - 00:51:57:20

MAX

Know, if we can just take a moment to take a step back, I think, and, and, and talk about industry trends, Are we what are what are you finding that's that's coming up at the moment That's that's top of mind. I know artificial intelligence is something that's thrown around a lot. What are you seeing that impact at the moment or is it just top of mind?

00:51:57:22 - 00:52:11:24

ANDY

Well, I'm seeing an impact at the moment, not in that it's being employed right now in any sort of threatening way, but that it is on people's minds. And it could be I mean, we all saw Terminator. We're all just waiting for that to happen, you know, waiting for Skynet.

00:52:12:00 - 00:52:14:04

MAX

It's a documentary right now.

00:52:14:07 - 00:52:39:06

ANDY

It is. It's like, oh, I remember when that happened and they don't look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. They're one of the big trends, again, would be the authenticity, diversity, inclusion, which we know I I'm actually all 100% for the other one. Yeah. Talking about A.I., but there is a way of looking at it. It it is frightening. I mean, people are out there.

00:52:39:06 - 00:52:53:02

ANDY

They're getting a lot of information from a lot of different sources. Some of the information is right. A lot of it is wrong. A lot of it is conjecture. I mean, in absolutely any business, there's a lot of people talking with authority about something they have no idea about. You know, I.

00:52:53:07 - 00:52:58:24

MAX

Think we hear that a lot of this business don't say regardless of what the topic is at the moment, what the trend.

00:52:59:01 - 00:53:22:23

ANDY

You're like, oh, revoice are on. It's going to replace actors. I've heard my voice. It's it's not it it's not going to replace actors in the near future. But what I would tell people is it's not something to be afraid of. Yet. The union is working to put things in place and there are people willing to settle for what it does because it serves their purpose.

00:53:22:23 - 00:53:48:16

ANDY

But that's always been there. But, you know, I mean, washing people, dishwashers in restaurants were replaced with washing machines. I mean, that happens. But what I do encourage people is, you know, keep your eyes open, see where A.I. is being used and how it's being used. It's not a substitute for people, even though some people may be using it that way.

00:53:48:18 - 00:54:16:01

ANDY

And it can be frightening if you don't know what to do. But somebody does. Somebody doesn't know what to do. Somebody is working on it. There are things out there. There are people that are opposed to it. There are people that are not. And just stay involved, join the conversations. Don't come at it from an I'm being attacked and being replaced standpoint.

00:54:16:03 - 00:54:43:22

ANDY

Accept it as another reality. I mean, you know, horses care. Horses and carriages were replaced by cars. You know, things do happen, but human beings are still there and human beings adapt and human beings move forward. So do be aware of it. It is a change. It is out there. As far as voiceover, you referred to it several times as being sort of a smaller branch.

00:54:43:23 - 00:55:10:23

ANDY

The industry, it seems like that because they're I don't want to say there's less to it because, you know, you don't have to wear the right clothes and you don't have to do makeup or cover your tattoos, anything. But it's actually a huge part of the industry. It was the first to adapt when COVID hit, You know, we still I was recording 52 episodes of a TV show.

00:55:10:23 - 00:55:34:07

ANDY

The second half of it was all remote. A lot of people did that because the technology was already in place. When I started in this business back in the day when I was again four years old, there were only 13 channels on TV here. People really only cared about four of them. Two of them were didn't even have advertising to speak of.

00:55:34:09 - 00:55:58:23

ANDY

And then cable hit. And cable was only like a movie that they played three times a day. And then that became that. But cable boxes had three numbers on it. So you can only have 999 channels. And now streaming, which is icons, not numbers. So unlimited virtual reality was not a thing. I mean, my entire workout life is on is on the Oculus.

00:55:59:00 - 00:56:00:06

ANDY

You know.

00:56:00:08 - 00:56:01:18

MAX

I was going to say obviously it was.

00:56:01:18 - 00:56:38:03

ANDY

Yeah, I love I love the Oculus. There's augmented reality. There's audio books existed, but they're not like they exist now. It wasn't like mandates of, you know, from Amazon of every book has to have an audio version of it is, you know newspapers. You can get newspapers online podcasts like nobody knew what that was. You know, there was a radio show or not a radio show, and then serious radio and podcasts, which are now blowing all of them out of the water.

00:56:38:05 - 00:57:01:05

ANDY

So there's so many things that exist now. Siri, you know, people that my phone already talks at, talks like the person I'm talking to, it's like, No, that's not enough. Voices. We need more voices on your phone. Apps have their own voices, point of purchase things. It's everywhere. It's this are everywhere. You know, your car talks to you.

00:57:01:07 - 00:57:29:21

ANDY

There are all these things you go to to meet Mark the rides, talk to you. So it's not a small branch of the business. It's a branch that adapts immediately. It's it's the biggest chameleon branch of this business. There are opportunities for everybody. E-learning. It's tough to find those opportunities and get in. Who do you know? Do you know if you know people that are stage people?

00:57:29:21 - 00:58:10:21

ANDY

Often stage people will know somebody. Your theatrical agent that doesn't do voiceover may have a sister agency. There are websites, there are places online, there's forums, there's entire groups on social media dedicated to just talking about voiceover. There's there are outlets for voiceover people. There's a thing called the Pygmy Violist, people of global majority violist. There's the disabled actors, Voiceless, the there's queer Vox, there's resources out there that are all about providing more and more and more channels to doing it.

00:58:10:23 - 00:58:13:01

ANDY

I do still think it all starts with classes.

00:58:13:07 - 00:58:14:08

MAX

Yeah.

00:58:14:10 - 00:58:15:02

ANDY

You know.

00:58:15:04 - 00:58:17:05

MAX

You don't know what you don't know, right? Yeah.

00:58:17:07 - 00:58:20:11

ANDY

Yeah. And, and you don't even know what you do know.

00:58:20:11 - 00:58:22:16

MAX

Sometimes that can make you think you do.

00:58:22:18 - 00:58:32:02

ANDY

Yeah. A good class may very well point out that you're already really good, and you just don't know it. You know, it may point out that you're not just.

00:58:32:08 - 00:58:33:03

MAX

Going to say.

00:58:33:05 - 00:58:34:20

ANDY

It, but at least you'll now.

00:58:35:01 - 00:58:47:07

MAX

You know, I think that's great. And I think if if I'm getting one consistent theme from our conversation today, it's it's the need to get off the couch and stay engaged in the industry that we're in.

00:58:47:09 - 00:58:51:19

ANDY

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. If you're not busy living your busy time.

00:58:51:24 - 00:58:55:12

MAX

I love that. That's great. You should make the show. It's handy. Seriously?

00:58:55:14 - 00:59:04:23

ANDY

Yeah. I wish I made it up. I mean, yeah, I made that up just now. I mean, I take 100% credit, but.

00:59:05:00 - 00:59:11:13

MAX

Well, Andy Rolfe, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. It's been a lovely, lovely conversation. Great.

00:59:11:15 - 00:59:20:15

ANDY

Thank you. Thank you. This has been this has been a blast. Thank you so much to unemployed actor.