Crafting Your Personal Brand: Lessons on Leadership, Resilience, and Authenticity with Victoria Pelletier

Victoria Pelletier: 0:00

And subsequently, I've seen a couple of recent things through this process around some of his additional hires and how he's choosing operates. I've actually said to the recruiter, I'm out, it's not going to be in alignment, again, from a values perspective in terms of the transformation, they want to see your hiring more of the same will not going to transform if that's the case. So I encourage people show up and now don't get me wrong. At some point, you need to put food on the table and you're going to take a job if you need. But however, try the best you can to show up that whole person so that there's alignment right from day one.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 0:33

Hello, and welcome to unset at work, I'm your host, Catherine Stagg Macy, I'm an executive and team coach, I am endlessly fascinated in the conversations we avoid having in the workplace. And today, I'm into my branding. If you think of the term branding, I wonder where your mind might go might conjure up images of global giants like Starbucks, or Virgin Airlines, Virgin Atlantic, both of which really have really strong established corporate brands. But let me ask you this. What comes to mind when I mentioned personal branding? Is Instagram or the world of influencers have come to center stage and your thoughts? Well, in this episode, my aim is to unravel the potential of personal brand for leaders. So why I want you to be thinking about your own personal brand, we're going to look into why it's significant, and the key components that make it up and why can have a lasting impact. And I've got a really remarkable guest joining us today someone who is known as the turnaround queen, and the CEO whisperer appears. Victoria Pelletier is it seasoned C suite exec with over two decades of experience in her journey in that which He says very openly with us is a real testament to her resilience and unwavering determination to live the life that she wants to live. She's never conformed the status quo she started in the corporate world achieve a title of Chief Operating Officer at the age of 24, which is extraordinary, I can imagine myself being at that level of the seat at the C suite of 24. And then she's gone on to become president at 35 and CEO at the age of 41. And she really exemplifies a value driven leadership style, which as you probably gathered by now, it's my favorite kind of leader. Her story is going to take us from her early days being a COO prompting her to question what her personal brand had to become. Not that she wasn't what you wanted it to be. But Hi there was a perceiving of time and how she went around reshaping that, what do you think is an encouraging story about however you are perceived can be changed. So in this episode, we'll talk about how to define and distinguish your brand strategies for posting meaningful content on LinkedIn. I know that's a struggle for many of us, and learn how to leverage this enhanced self awareness in interviews. Before we dive into this episode, I'd like to offer you the chance to keep the momentum going after the podcast. If you want to stay connected, and receive some valuable content beyond this podcast, how about signing up for my weekly newsletter, in the newsletter, you're going to find a treasure trove of insights and tips that I share every week. On Tuesdays are stories, tools, practical tips are delivered with the healthy dose of humor as you might be come to expect from me, let's work together to transform our workplaces into the environments that we know where we can colleagues can thrive. You can find the signup link at the bottom of the show notes and weekly newsletter. And without further ado, let's drop into my conversation with Victoria. Victoria, welcome, welcome to the show.

Victoria Pelletier: 3:27

Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here. I'm excited that this is get to hear your story.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 3:31

Let's start with a bit about who you are and what you do and what you love.

Victoria Pelletier: 3:37

Oh, that's a lot to play in like condensed and a tiny. I described myself as a multi potential light. And that's because I have this diverse number of interests. So I'm a wife and I'm a mum to two humans. And a dog mom now to I'm a C suite executive. I've been at the executive level for 20 plus years, 30 years working started in like very young. I also have a multitude of side hustles, which are as a professional public speaker, and author. I'm actually in the middle of writing two books that will come out next year right now. And I do a little bit of personal brand and on a very limited basis, executive coaching and then lots of other things I love I'm a fitness fanatic, a foodie love good wine. What do you call it multi potential?

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 4:24

Anyone say it's a movie? I'm not if you get a little older in life, and you have so many interests, how do you encapsulate all of those, you know, I'm starting teaching kind of a form of ecstatic dance and you're like, oh, how does that marry with executive coach and Potter? It's like, well, I just does. It's doing totally make sense to me and the books. Can you give us a hint or top secret knowing that they're not other things I talked about all the time. I was at a co authored book that I'd been invited to participate in a number of years ago called unstoppable which is like my life, mantra and philosophy. So it made sense to do that.

Victoria Pelletier: 5:00

When these two The first will come out in the new year, and it's around personal branding, which is one of the things that I spent a significant amount of time focused, I use the phrase strategic intentionality a lot. And so one I've been very focused strategically and intentional around my own brand, but that now coach others, so that one will come out in the new year. And then in the springtime, I will have one that comes out around the leadership and culture, what I refer to as whole human leadership. And so just leading in a very different way that the workforce wants now being empathetic, authentic, transparent, and building trust, and real relationships with our teams. I love that little I'm getting to know you. It's like, I'm not gonna do one book, I'm gonna write two books. I

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 5:41

was doing everything else that I've just said. Yeah.

Victoria Pelletier: 5:43

Cassidy now, so I'm like, when else am I gonna be able to do it. And quite honestly, Catherine, I couldn't decide between which of the two topics because they're so close to me. So I'm like, let's just do them both.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 5:54

Complete, inspirational, I love it lowered. Don't make me make choices when I don't have to. I'm just gonna do both of them. So we're gonna talk more about personal branding today. So I'm going to look forward to your book in the New Year. But I'm always interested as to people's upbringings and how that kind of forms who they are. Because I think that does, whether we're aware or not inform who we are as a leader. Can you share a little bit about your, your journey into the sort of C into the C suite?

Victoria Pelletier: 6:22

Yeah, I realized a long time ago, I was doing a disservice by not sharing more of myself. My lived experience that is is truly to borrow from Simon Sinek it's my why. Why have I been so driven for so long from majority of my life, quite frankly. And so for me, that kind of origin story takes me back to like early childhood, I'm born to a drug addicted teenage mother who was exceptionally abusive to me, I went in and out of the child welfare system a number of times. Thankfully, I was adopted by a couple who often would watch me after one of my biological mother's episodes with me, and my mum is the woman that raised me on point asked Julie, my bio mum to adopt me and take me out of that lifestyle. And thankfully, the most selfless thing Julie could have done was agree. My parents are, although loving was very lower socioeconomic household. I didn't have to worry about food and clothing, but that there wasn't much money for anything else couldn't go on my, a lot of the school trips, certainly not like I remember sitting on the sidelines for my high school graduation trip just because there wasn't money. But as a result of that, I was determined I would be better than my biology or the circumstance. So I actually started working at age 11, in a hair salon doing everything but the hair duties other than sweeping, and then progressed from there. By 14, I became the assistant manager of the shoe store that I worked at while I was in high school. And then graduated high school at 16, went to university and worked in a bank throat school and then got recruited six years later. So I was not quite 24 years old, and a brand new mother and I became the chief operating officer for a large outsourcing organization. stressful for me, but I was running contact centers in financial services. And the company had many banking clients. So for them it there was lots of ticks in the boxes. But there was a lot I had to learn.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 8:11

That's a fast runway to a massive job at the age of 24. Yeah, yeah, it was. At the age of 24, I was still putting mum at home saying how do I make pasta sauce? I'm really struck by the drive behind, I'm not gonna let biology and circumstance create a future moment as a younger person we were that kind of landed. You sound very clear now as in all the years in understanding that narrative. But was there a point where you're like, No, hell, no, that's not going to be me.

Victoria Pelletier: 8:49

I definitely didn't have the vernacular in the words, as I am describing now, Catherine, but I think back then it was just, I had a number of other things happen even as a child and so there was just always I mean, I hit my height, I'm only five foot eight. Although, as my children remind me, I think I'm shrinking every day. But I hit it. By the time I was 11 years old. Like I was always the biggest kid I developed quickly. I was gifted and skipped a couple of years like to, I was raped at 14 as well, that was just like this, a series of kind of punches that I rolled with. And it was for me, there was just something and so I think there's a little bit that's just innate fighter flight fighter. And so I was just determined, like, nothing is going to stop me from being better than and again, I don't think I didn't know I didn't want to be like Julie. So actually, I found out everyone like maybe once a year she would contact my mum when she moved cross country to be great distance from her, but she would sort of call my mom and check in on me. And I found out I think at 11 that she'd landed herself in jail for standing, stabbing someone well on I'm sure on drugs, and that just sort of reinforced like I am going to be nothing like her. And also seeing my parents struggle financially. I was like, I don't want to be In that position, so it was just all the series of these events and like adversity and obstacles that came my way and like I'm punching through this one, like, again, I'm going to do and be better and different than what I see around me. Wow, it's

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 10:15

possible to have adversity but don't have to come out of it that in that kind of fighting passion, like you said, it's your fuel, it's your power.

Victoria Pelletier: 10:24

I would say however, I had to learn a healthier way to be as resilient as I am. And so for me early on, that was I'm going to put walls up around me, I'm not going to let people hurt me, I was very quick to reject or walk away from people that I thought might do the same to me. It's not healthy. And I got exceptionally talented at like compartmentalizing feelings rather than processing and dealing with them. Although my mum was very good at sitting me down, she's like Tori, we need to talk through this, I need to understand why you're having these feelings. And it wasn't until probably 10 or 20 years later, where I was able to like take what she'd done with me to develop a healthier way of being resilient, which a big part of that is being very self aware and self reflective. I'm very quick to have emotions, why am I having this? Is it fear? Is it insecurity? What is it and then start to think and like model, the action and the behavior thinking that I need to move forward.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 11:18

So there's lots of personal growth in your story, learning how to understand those emotions, because I imagine you must have been quite a fighter as a teenager for very good reason.

Victoria Pelletier: 11:31

A story even I think shortly after my mom adopted me, I really strawberry blonde curly hair as a kid these ringlets and my mum was walking past it was like a construction site. And there was one of the workers who stopped and he goes, Aren't you the cutest little thing? And I said, I won't swear on your podcast, but I did an expletive I'm like, What the f are you looking at? Like I was just always like this. So like, My nickname is The turtle that my best friend gave me and I do have a tough exterior. But I'm actually all soft on the inside. But some hard edges have worn away for sure.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 12:07

But if we go back to because this is following the threat of personal brand, and we go back to that first C suite role, you've probably pretty so hard edged to get yourself there. You fought. You're tenacious, you're a fighter, you gotta come out the corner, like guns blazing and skinny worked to some degree. How do you think people were experiencing you? In that first role? Yeah,

Victoria Pelletier: 12:32

I showed up with this persona, and maybe a mask that I felt that I had to wear. Because we use that I don't love the phrase now. But there's a lot of talk about impostor syndrome. But it was a stretch role for me. And although I had significant skill and experience in leading these operations, there was a lot I didn't know. So in that first role for me, I was the chief operating officer and I had most functional areas of that organization, except for finance reporting to me, I had no experience with having HR, technology, sales, things like that reporting to me. So I felt quite a little bit like I didn't belong there, though. I was the youngest executive by at least two decades, I was the only woman and I'm part of the LGBT community at the time, I was married to my wife, I'm now married to a man. But I was like, Oh, my gosh, I'm like the only here on a multitude of fronts. And so for me, the last thing I wanted is for this is still just Nate, the nature of me growing up, I'm going to be really tough. I'm not going to show you that I'm vulnerable. I'm not going to show any weakness, but also because I didn't want to give anyone reason to question my seat at that table. And so for me, although it's highly effective at driving business results, I learned not long afterwards that my nickname was the Iron Maiden. And in the world of outsourcing, people outsource whether it's their call center or some kind of corporate function, they do it our mess for less, we're going to pass it to you. But the margins are lower. So you have to be very adept at managing performance. There's also very high turnover. And so I was very good at that. But I think a lot of people probably feared me versus this sense of followership, that for me, hit me to the core in that. It's, I recognize that was how I was showing up and perceptions reality, but it really isn't who I am at my heart. I am incredibly emotional and compassionate and empathetic and having to lay people off through restructurings or because of performance issues, hurt me physically, I would go home and white at night and like cry and talk to my wife about like what I'd experienced that day. But that never showed up at the office. So I had a very much need to change the way in which not only my brand but but literally how I was acting behaving and talking at work to show up in the way that I knew I actually was.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 14:50

There's a painful moment when you when it's fed back to you how you're showing up and you're like yeah, but that's not really me. Yeah, it's

Victoria Pelletier: 14:59

it is Got the piercing moment that came after hearing that was my nickname was coming in on a Monday morning talking with a colleague about our weekends. And I said I'd seen I don't remember what the movie was, but at the theater, and I had just been bawling, and I hadn't. Kleenex, and I remember, she looked at me and she's like that, are you be the type of person who laughs and people who cries in movies that, like calling, if that's what you think of me, like, and I really knew the nickname was unfortunate, but having her conveyed in that way, that was the sort of impetus for me to go, I need to change and change now, because I, this isn't me. And again, I don't want people to think of me in this way. I was called Ice Queen around the same age you were called, is made,

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 15:45

clearly related. But driven by similar things. So it was just to say it was never felt safe to be vulnerable to that degree in working in tech, like you did. Being the only woman I could just felt you I was trying to manage myself against different standards, I had to hide parts of myself in order to measure up. Half of it for me was unconscious. But I remembered hurting being I see ice cream, like I'm more than I can be. But I'm more than that. How would you think people will describe you today? Your friend calls you turtle? If I asked my colleagues, what do you think they might say now,

Victoria Pelletier: 16:27

and they don't necessarily know that the new moniker of turtle, although interestingly, I'm using that in a leadership book to talk about the transformation and my own leadership journey. I think, if you ask team members and colleagues, they'll say, I'm tough, but I'm fair, they would absolutely acknowledge the drives that I have. I do know that many times I need to slow down to let other people catch up. So there's again, awareness of my style, my extreme a type personality. And my asks, I actually have had this thing long before COVID. And working remotely, there are no schedules, there are just deliverables. So you didn't have to ask me for permission, I trust my team. So they will say that I trust them, I empower them. But also, we have commitments to our clients and to one another. And so I, I'm very clear on how we measure success in our organization, and for them personally and tying it back. But manage my expectations. So like, come back to me and challenge me. So they know that I don't want a bunch of yes, people around me, we're better when we're challenging one another. They'll say that tough but fair, I set really clear objectives for everyone. But I allow them to challenge and manage those if they're unrealistic, or if something happens, and we need to change some of the timelines around it. And then I'm also deeply committed to their personal development and growth, even if that means I might lose them on my team for something that is more suited for where they want to be.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 17:53

There's so much clarity there on your values, as you talk in a very rounded human being coming across as what I'm hearing was the ice made it his one dimensional, very

Victoria Pelletier: 18:02

much. So this is where the this whole human sort of leadership and for me, a big part of that is being incredibly values driven, I forgot to mention, that'll be one thing that my colleagues will state unequivocally that I am very values and high degree of integrity driven, I have quit companies and leaders that didn't align with values. And or there were some ethics or integrity compromise, that I didn't see that the rest of organism the organization was prepared to address or take action towards going

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 18:32

to journey you've been on in a few decades, decades. And so that's going to lead us to a topic around like personal branding, which is what I thought would be interesting, because I think I had one client say to me that he took on a new job. He said, I want to work on my personal brand. And I What do you mean, what do you mean by that? It's not a term that I hear often from executives, it is managing their own personal brand. It's more like, I'm on Instagram, and I'm a social media coach, and therefore I'm managing my personal brand. In the context of leadership, how would you help us understand personal brand,

Victoria Pelletier: 19:07

it is much more about the whole human and how you show up. And what I see. Most people focus on one aspect of what I believe are sort of four foundational elements of your brand. And that is, what is your subject matter expertise. And so many people think, oh, I want to be a thought leader in this. And so that tends to be either the job function or role or industry or the intersection of both. You know, I'm an executive at a, I don't know, health care life sciences like and that's, they think that's it. And so that even when they're promoting content on LinkedIn, or whatever, it's only related to facts and data and information related to that. That's just the foundation I believe, like that's the right particularly from a professional standpoint, but really relates to others as well and not just in a corporate setting. The next one is what's your story, what makes you the uniqueness So my story and my drive is part of that. But connected to that are the things that I value that I'm passionate about. And then the next thing but very connected to that is, but what makes you different? So there's gonna be other people who are executives in the field that I'm in who share some of the same values. But how are we different? So I think of I spent a lot of time in b2b Professional Services and companies will issue RFPs request for proposal, procurement might say it comes down to price, but you talked about others in the business, and it's about quality. But at the end of the day, people do business with people they like, and they trust they want to do business with, there's lots of people who do what I do or what my team does. And so why would they choose to hire me or my team versus another. And that's that unique value differentiation. So for me, for example, one of those pieces that is that I am radically candid. And maybe this is a little bit of, although I'm originally from Canada, and when I first got relocated to the US, they told me I was like the least Canadian of the bunch, they Canadian to apologize for everything, we're very self deprecating, but it's because I'm very direct. And I moved to New York. And so like that kind of style, I've never been afraid to have the difficult conversations. Some of that goes back to Iron Maiden. But if you Kim Scott's book, radical candor, delivering feedback from a place of care, and compassion and a desire for progression for someone. And so I recall even just last year, saying to a client, a CEO, who had hired my team to help them with a massive restructuring effort, and he was making some decisions. And I remember saying to him, like, I don't think you've hired us. And me in particular, sitting here as your executive sponsor for this to tell you what you want to hear, I'm going to tell you what you need to hear. And so that is something that my clients, my team will very much know, and there's no meeting after the meeting, all of our cards are on the table. That's a differentiation, and some don't like it. So when I do some individual one on one coaching with people, I'm like, I'm not everyone's cup of tea, and just understand what it's gonna be like in terms of how we work together. So get clear. So going back to Foundation, your subject matter expertise, your eminence, your story, the values and things that are passionate about what makes you different. And the last thing is, what's the legacy you want to leave the impact you want to leave on this world think about 15 or 20 years from now, for those who are maybe thinking about might be retirement for them, or satellite, think about like, there will be a tombstone for me, because I'll donate everything to science. But if there was, it's not going to say talk about the mergers and acquisitions that I've led him, where the sales, the revenue profitability, it's going to be the legacy and impact I want to have is around being a really great human who made workplaces communities in the world a better place for things like leadership culture, a focus on diversity and inclusion, and creating equity and social justice. That's how I want to be known. So when I show up, my personal brand is a combination of all of those things, all of the time you need to be you don't like set your brand and then forget it, you're incredibly relevant to the audience who would hire you buy from you want to engage with you? So

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 22:58

let me just sum this up for myself and the listeners we talking about the foundation? It's like table stakes, which is what am I? What's my subject matter expert expertise and my domain knowledge? The second one is my is my story and my values. They're both right, like who am I? My origin story dictates how I show up in the world and my values. My USP, why am I different to Victoria, or anyone else in this party legacy is also why what fingerprints might have happened to me, even in this world, from what you're saying, and what I think from what I see in the world, people are very focused on domain, very knowledge, even as a differentiator. So

Victoria Pelletier: 23:33

I worked for IBM for a number of years. And LinkedIn ranked me their number one, what LinkedIn refers to as social seller, so the brand on their platform globally, and IBM had what they referred to internally as an eminence program, but really was about that subject matter expertise, how many they refer to read books, technology, like how many patents if you had like those kinds of things. And after, I actually think it was pretty progressive of them, when they were recognizing how LinkedIn recognized me. They asked me to develop the training for the other executives, because everyone was like myopically focused on only that first piece of their subject matter expertise in their technology or consulting field, and maybe an industry that they had more experience than than others. And that was it. And clearly, there's a need to go much more broadly than that.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 24:24

So boring. It's when I thought I'd take LinkedIn seriously, about five, six years ago, I had a look at my feet and I was just, I'm so excited to join insert company, hoping to see you at insert boring conference name. It's no wonder I never go on LinkedIn. Somebody said to me, you're following the wrong people. I'm like, Okay. And I started finding people who had a better understanding of pretty much all the aspects you're talking about. And I got to the people I could see they would tell stories about who they were and why they did that what mattered to them and the world from which you can infer values and there have run the impact and legacy

Victoria Pelletier: 24:59

there. is a fine line. And this is where a lot of people struggle with though is how do I show my values and certain things without getting? Maybe it's too political or things like that, and living here in the US with our politics as they are, I'm not going to get into that debate online. But I'm extremely values driven, as I mentioned, and focused on things like social justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion. So instead, I'm going to talk about same sex marriage rights, or the trans military, I'm going to talk about those things, but how they're deeply connected to how I want to advance the world and the things that I value, you can then infer who I might vote for, but I'm not going to bring that. And so that's where I encourage people not to shy away from that if it's deeply connected to, again, who you are as a human, or the again, going back to legacy like, what are you looking to advance in career in the world or beyond?

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 25:51

Yeah, I think there's a tea these last few weeks with some politics going off around the world, people feel very edgy about what they can and can't say. And I think just because you have a social platform like LinkedIn doesn't mean you have to say anything about a whole range of topics. There's something executives could learn from my 25 year old, social media, Instagram, friends, having a little content pillars, like I post about these three things, and politics and enough in another country is not one of them, it's like, Fine, that's your choice. You don't have to be doing that. So one of the mistakes people are making is getting to the mistakes, because you started us off there is just posting company data. Yeah, domain expertise, that sort of tunnel vision, domain

Victoria Pelletier: 26:33

expertise. And you said at the company information, far too many times, where I see these domain experts sharing their company's marketing materials, and so no one wants to engage with that, then we feel like we're constantly being sold to all the time. Now, I don't think people have to if you're not a great content creator, you don't need to, you can, one, there's ghost writers out there if you need someone to help you, but share other people's content and not all of your company. But with how maybe that article resonated with you personally, I really loved reading this particular pull out quote, or it resonated with me because of, or in the work that I'm doing. I'm seeing how artificial intelligence here we need to be thinking about ethics and this and that. And that's a different way to share other people's content, but again, connected to each of those areas of not only your expertise, but again, you know, values and demonstrating thought leadership versus just the ability to to repost so that's probably one of the biggest mistakes I see is just reposting company content, or purely content without any commentary, other companies or other sources without your own personal stamp on why you're sharing it.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 27:44

Yeah, no context to why we should care that you're sharing something like that. Yeah. What about the introvert extrovert debate of increasingly to make 90 do on the introversion scale. And the for them posting anything on LinkedIn is like a traumatic experience?

Victoria Pelletier: 27:59

Well, I think there's a tremendous amount of electronic courage that comes from sitting behind the screens, I think, add into this digital world has made it easier to have more of a brand for people who are introverts. Because again, there's it's a lot easier to sit behind the keyboard, share other people's content, or write your own, versus standing on public stages to do that, or trying to network in a room of strangers. And so again, I drew people to start with that, because pressing the submit button is a heck of a lot easier than like I said, standing in a room of strangers. But I'm also a big believer that what doesn't make you uncomfortable, will not cause you to growth. So I think you need to lean into the discomfort because I think growth comes out of that. And at some point, as I say, you know, with practice, you get much better at it. And so I'm if your listeners aren't hearing this, like I'm a pretty big extrovert. But I wasn't always like this. I grew into my extraversion. And it's because put myself in situations consistently that made me uncomfortable. I knew I had to do it. So the whole notion even at small talk, I hated it. I hated it. And now it's like just so innate. I strike up a conversation with a stranger in an elevator. And so for those listening who are uncomfortable with it, just use the electronic courage baby steps, I do still think you need to bring it into IRL as my youngest one will tell me in real life, the baby steps and like just slowly meaning and it'll get more comfortable over time.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 29:29

One thing that occurs to me by branding as well is how you use it in positioning yourself in the job process in the job hunting process. I've got a few clients of mine in hunting for jobs at the moment. And they haven't been on the job scene for five plus years. You look at their CV and I'm like, I adore you as a client. I'm bored halfway through the first page of your CV. It's like It's like standardized term. Names pulled out of some rent is a bucket of words everyone seems to use all the time. What guidance would you give someone who is looking for a job and at applying the tenants of what we've been talking about to that process

Victoria Pelletier: 30:12

won't help those who are currently in career transition. But I would say you need to build the brand in your network when you don't need it. So it's there for you when you do. So again, that might not help those who are currently in the middle of their transition. But I would encourage everyone listening to start to think about it now, even if you feel safe in your current environment, because we know lots of change can happen. And quite quickly, as we talk about brand, I find another mistake people make is they rely on the people they work with today who are just going to promote them or move them around because of their performance outside of the organization. And sometimes even outside of just the department you work in. That's It's uncomfortable to like toot your own horn. But again, let's use some electronic courage here, you can do that with your CV, and you can do that with your LinkedIn profile, and needs to show the bits of you that are different those same elements that we just talked about. So yes, you need to talk about what it is the role you're an expert in. However, you need to speak to the outcomes you have delivered the successes that you've delivered. So that needs to be clear. That's the That's why people would want to hire you. But then a lot, we talk a lot about fit. So those other two elements of like who you are as a human, I value these things. And ideally, if you're targeting that towards particular company where there's alignment with the company, or the leader who might be hiring you, and what makes you different. Again, there's gonna be lots of people that are software developers, why are you different from the other, for example? And so that all needs to show up in your resume. And online? Yes, of course, you're still mindful of like search engine optimization, and making sure the right words and job titles are in there. But as people are reading it, they want to see all those other things. And as you said, you're not off halfway through, you want to be engaging, so people want to read

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 32:02

it to the end. Because to me, the once you've got the job interview, we do several interviews of of a process. You can be highlighting this as well. And that process, you should be absolutely. Well, you when you say you should be I haven't been an interview process for a long time. But I hear some of the stories and I'm like, Oh, come on, why didn't you like grab that opportunity?

Victoria Pelletier: 32:21

I think people are afraid to do that. And again, if you haven't been interviewing for a long time, on a costume to what that looks like. And I just go back to this phrase I use people do business with people they like and trust and want to do business with. So assume you're at the interview, because you've ticked the box in terms of the functional expertise. Sure, they're going to ask you questions and test you on some successes you've had. But otherwise, who are you? And how are we going to work together? How can you handle conflict or challenge within our organization? What are you bringing that's different to some of the others here, like, that's the stuff you need to be thinking about. approach it from a place of like, genuine, rapport building, like when I meet people, like I'm an avid networker on LinkedIn, you'll see they refer to it as an open networker. I'm gonna cause I open networker, so I'll accept most invitations, because we have shared connections or industry. But when I just meet people, when I do go to a conference or event, I might, there might be some strategic intention over I think they could be a great client at some point. But I'm going to approach it from a place of genuine relationship building. And again, this is different from an interview, get it, but that's how I try and approach it. So even when I'm in an interview with someone, I want to find out where there's commonality, whether that's an easy one for parents, about learning about their children, or being a recent Canadian, like hockey is a big thing. I play hockey, and my kids played hockey. And so building bridges where you see some of those things, so don't be afraid in interviews to to show who you are as a human and find that connection with the person interviewing you. I

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 33:54

get a sense. And I'm sort of speaking to third hand from stories, people tell me that they sort of go into robot phase and little in interviews, because it's not a common experience. And they're not comfortable talking about themselves. They want to talk about what they can do. So back to domain expertise can talk about that for hours, but not that comfortable talking about other areas. And it feels like if you've done this work, even a self reflection exercises that you would feel more confident and excited to say like, these are my values, like when I did values work with clients, they come back and they want to talk about an hour, but then it's like they've uncovered something magical. It's like what it was always they just don't look. So I think there's there would be value for people taking these fourth three threads because domain experts and the sort of reflecting on those to the point where they're excited and want to share them. And that would make it easier for it to come organically and the conversation right?

Victoria Pelletier: 34:47

Yeah. And I think we saw a mass exodus, particularly in 2022 of people who were quitting leaders, people usually quit leaders and not companies, because it didn't align with the Their values or didn't align with the purpose, or the culture just no longer felt right for them. And so why wouldn't we show up our whole selves in an interview to ensure that there's alignment from the get go, I'll give you an example. I happen to be in career transition, I made a decision to leave, I left Accenture and just a few months ago, looking for my next C suite opportunity. And I was interviewing executive recruiter came to me for a role where I would be meeting with the reporting to the CEO of a large company. And I could see that when I looked at the leadership page of this company, maybe 15, people that show up on that page 12 to 15, are men of the three women that are on the page, only once a woman of color, and of the 12 men, two were men of color of Indian descent, but they're also based in India. And I can see his last several hires were all middle aged white men. So I was super transparent with the recruiter to say, he knows actually the CEO fairly well, let's say Kevin, like I'm really concerned, I am deeply committed to diversity, equity inclusion, and that needs to show at the leadership table at a minimum, I said, I'm just putting it out there right now, that's a red flag for me. And subsequently, I've seen a couple of recent things through this process around some of his additional hires and how he's choosing operates. I've actually said to the recruiter, I'm out, it's not going to be in alignment, again, from a values perspective in terms of the transformation, they want to see your hiring more of the same, will not going to transform if that's the case. So I encourage people show up. And now don't get me wrong, at some point, you need to put food on the table, and you're going to take a job if you need. But however, try the best you can to show up that whole person so that there's alignment, right from day one. And ideally, like long term retention.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 36:43

This is a stat that I found the other day that we spend more time with colleagues from the ages of 25 and 50, then we do with our partner, this idea that you're essentially a source for friends, your adult friendship comes from work. And so why not, try really hard to find a place where you feel that you do fit, and belong and are appreciated and your values are aligned with the organization. Shocking the steps. And then we just think we can be overly dismissive of how it's more than a job, they focus on the salary and the benefits and the perks. And I'm like, it's bigger than that.

Victoria Pelletier: 37:22

I've made the choice that I don't do things that do not bring me personal or professional joy or value. Now that does, there's some stuff that just has to get done. And I have the 8020 rule, the stuff that doesn't bring me personal joy or value, I say no to I delegate or outsource. But when I get to a position, and I've been in that with some companies where that at 20 is more like 5050 At best, then going back to choice. And I signed a lot of my social media posts off with hashtag unstoppable. I told you that was my mantra of mine or philosophy. And the other ones, no excuses. And by the way, no choice is a choice. And so for me, I'll make that choice that if I'm not in that 8020 zone, to make a decision to change what I can change, ideally within that organization, role leadership, etc. Or otherwise I leave, because here like we spent far too much time at work. And by the way, for many of us in our minds when we're not at work to a place that brings us joy. Surgery.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 38:25

Yeah, I would love to be working with you or for you. I'm fit. I'm super inspired by this conversations, can I go never want to be 10 years out of the COVID world. I'm like, I'm gonna go back to Victoria was my bus. That'd be cool. We can have some fun. I'm told I'm to direct directness is sometimes a blessing and a curse for me in similar ways. I'm not in the scale that you're at, but I'm in the quartile I think the bottom end of your quartile direct, we'd get on perfectly fine. A bit. The listeners are like, okay, I get it. I personal brand. I need to work on it. I know my domain expertise. So it's it'll be the other three areas legacy, USB and story. What advice would you give people on how to do this?

Victoria Pelletier: 39:05

I do think you need to craft it. And you said it earlier, there's going to be people who really struggle with defining what maybe not what their interest values are. But again, their differentiation is often hard for people. And also how do they want to show up. So for example, I give people worksheets. I'm like I needed to literally work through each of these areas and capture down. And I encourage people to have an audit done. So I wasn't the Iron Maiden. But I was showing up that way. I needed to have it hit me to go oh my gosh. And so I would encourage people to craft their brand. How they believe they show up today with maybe the expansion I did. Sometimes we need to pivot I had to pivot and make a change. And also when careers change like you're going to that that first domain expertise might change. As you said you exited the corporate world and went different directions at some point you're going to pick it. So get this down on literal or figurative paper, and then have an audit with the people that you trust that are going to be radically candid. And then you build a plan for how you are going to show up digitally. And then how do you also bring that into your in real life as well? One other pieces know your audience, like, why are you focused on this brand? Yes. As I said, you build it in a place and time when you don't need it. So it's there for when you do Is it because you're hiring employees, you want to be hired, you're selling, figure out what that is? And who's your audience? Who are you speaking to? I'm not on every social platform, because although my young one gives me issue for not being a Snapchat and Tiktok, that's, I'm not gonna say my audience, although majority of the people hiring me or engaging me are not there for those purposes, or they're like Doom scrolling kills, and I'm choosing not to be there. But again, that's because I know where my audience is, all of those foundational elements, auditing it with someone building the plan, and ensuring that aligns and it's incredibly relevant to the audience you're trying to attract.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 41:00

And make up if it's very genuine and real, it doesn't need to be a lot of refreshing to it. But once you've done values work, us know what it is, once you've worked out, the kind of legacy you want to have in the world, the manifestation, my gender, where you're choosing to do it, but what it is, because you've done the story work, and we all have a thread that usually goes back to our childhood for why we do the work that we do. And that doesn't change, right. But I do you love a 360? You're not talking yet. You haven't called it there. But this idea of getting it mirrored back to you of what how do I think I'm showing up versus what I how I am showing up.

Victoria Pelletier: 41:39

And I think a lot of people think that it's takes a significant amount of time. Although actually I tell you, Catherine, I couldn't tell you how much time I spent, like LinkedIn is always open. So I always open tab in my browser. And when I have the chance of going in and engaging, I'm liking and commenting on others, I'm sharing other content. But there's technology and tools that also make it very easy to regularly if you want to be out there consistently with a message and a brand. So I have a signature logo that sits on when I share content. So people will always know it's mine. It's unstoppable. And it's got my Victoria Peltier signature on it. So they know that, but there's, again, it's HootSuite or even if you're designing in Canada, you can set it and schedule there's incredibly easy ways to do this. That doesn't take a significant amount of time. So I think people get scared. They're like, I'm so busy. I don't have time to fit this in. I also have a saying whether it's conviction, there's capacity, so you will create the capacity to do amazing technology tools to help you competent

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 42:36

segway eviction capacity. I love that. I started watching about a year and a half ago, I managed within a year I was spending eight hours a week doing pottery and if you'd said to me, you've got eight spare hours to do pottery beginning of last year, like no ways I'm not going to pay I'm busy said entrepreneur, what do you think I'm doing sitting on my hands the whole time. I found eight hours. I have completely gobsmacked myself that I thought it was. But damn, I love pottery. I was going to do it. And so I've been down so interesting. So yeah, conviction crates capacity. And so drew, I want to make the point A listener that just because the brand personal brand 101 is just know what it is, and weave it into the conversations you have when you hire people when you're preparing suppliers working with suppliers. Personal Branding 201 is the public social platform. That's why I'm saying would you do you think it's worthwhile separating it out to make it a bit more accessible for people. Critically

Victoria Pelletier: 43:34

important, just understand what it is an elements you have to be including much more broadly. So you show up as a whole person for sure. I think there's a consistency in how you show up regardless of wherever you show up. Whether it's in a digital platform or in real life, like I will tell you there is no different version of Victoria, that you see showing up on LinkedIn versus when you meet me now I choose different content. I wear inappropriate tank tops to the gym, with sometimes with expletives on it. I take pictures of that and put it on my personal Facebook. Now I'm not worried. I don't ever post anything online, by the way that I'm worried that if someone saw it, I totally regretted going on my LinkedIn. Again, that's the audience and whom I'm attracting. So what I the tool one for me is just much more of a blended approach in terms of where you're showing up in consistency, whether it's digitally or offline.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 44:22

It's so interesting. I have one's writing notes now I'm gonna send us both this is what I did off the back of this conversation. Any any final thing that you wish I'd asked you and you want people to know before we sign off here that

Victoria Pelletier: 44:35

the whole notion of personal brand came about and Tom Peters back in like the late 90s and talked about you You're in charge of your own brand I can't remember even now it's exactly what I refer to it as being you are the CEO of brand you so you're really in charge of how you curate the narrative needs to be authentic. But you are in control of that. And again, you can sticks some damage like I had 20 years ago you can fix some of that and pivot. Again there's this strategic nature to it intentionality that needs to come with it. But you're completely in charge at that. Just remember CEO of brand you love

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 45:13

it. A great place to end. Victor has been a complete delight. And if you ever want to hire someone like me, please don't tell me because I want to come work with you. I was pitching for a job on a podcast. Why not as my podcast? I don't care. So there you go. been a delight. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. Wow, Victoria is an absolute powerhouse. And as you can tell, I'm truly inspired by her determination and remarkable focus really epitomizes strategic intent like no. One of the real crucial takeaways for me from our conversation is her insight into the the mistake people make the only paying attention to LinkedIn when they're searching for a new job. And I understand that it might not be a priority for you if you're feeling safe and secure. But I really want you to think about what you can achieve with just setting aside 10 minutes every week to invest in your personal brand. Your future self will thank you for it. I promise you that. If this episode has struck a chord with you don't hesitate to drop me an email details in the show notes and let's connect and I'd love to keep this conversation going. And until our next encounter, this is your wing woman signing off.