How Rachel transformed her work relationships : a coaching story

Rachel Peacock: 0:00

Definitely transformative is the way I describe it. And also, I can't imagine not having this as part of my development every year. My plan, you know, that kind of structure because there it is structured. And yeah, it does get a bit hard at times four. Couldn't be without it now.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 0:20

You really are the evangelists. Now I am

Rachel Peacock: 0:23

standing on corners grabbing.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 0:27

flyers up north for you so you can get some flyers come back to answer at work, the podcast where we delve into the unspoken challenges. The stuff we just don't talk about at work. I'm your host, Katherine Steve Museum and executive team coach. And today I've invited one of my wonderful clients to come and talk about her journey of transformation through coaching over the last 18 months, we've worked together immediately with more about her before I tell you what the process has been. So Rachel is CEO of making space. It's a charity in the northern part of England that provides care for adults with sport AIDS. And Rachel's worked in the charity sector for much of her working life and as you'll hear has a really strong sense of purpose about the work she does her Why is so clear to her. She's very motivated by social justice. When she came knocking on my door, she passed the five year mark in the job and for her, there was usually the sign of time to move on based on sort of previous experience. And she admitted to feeling pretty stuck in dissatisfied. And she wanted to improve a few things. Rachel wanted to work on her work relationships, because she found them super frustrating. She was taking things personally and taking up a lot of headspace discussion on Friday with consumer a whole weekend. Perhaps that sounds familiar to you. The voice in her head was saying that he wasn't good enough in the last year probably worth the volume of that voice starting to go up. And she wanted to have some space to think about, well, what next? Where would she go? And how do you think about that? We share we unpack her journey in this right from even her skepticism about coaching. She believes navel gazing nonsense. They were talking about how on a journey of aligning kind of head and heart to the key elements of improving relationships at work and how, in her words, coaching isn't therapy, but it is therapeutic. So if you see yourself in Rachel's story and would like to have your own transformation journey, then I would love to have a conversation with you click there work with me. But at the bottom of the strategy, let's take it from there. Rachel is thoughtful, kind, funny, and just the kind of person that a leader that I admire doing the sort of social justice work that the world needs, and I know you're gonna enjoy our conversation. Rachel, welcome to unset at work, I'm really excited to have you here to talk about your coaching experience of thanks

Rachel Peacock: 2:53

for inviting me, I can't wait for this. I don't know what I've locked myself in for I'm in safe hands with Coach Catherine. Well, thanks

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 3:00

for trusting me. I know it's not easy to say yes to coaching. And it's not easy to talk about coaching in public forum as a podcast. So I appreciate your willingness to come on and help people understand because people don't know what coaching is about. But before we get into that, let's give some context for folks who are listening and a little bit about your background and what led you to look for executive coaching.

Rachel Peacock: 3:22

If I start with today, so I'm CEO of a national charity, we work in the health and social care world. So very heavily regulated, it's an organization called Making space. I've been with the organization for 10 years, nearly I came to make in space, it was my very fast move into the boardroom. Big deal. For me, it was my first executive role. I came to the organization as Executive Director for Development. What I've demonstrated leading up to that about 10 years ago was no such skills, ability, competency, and desire for business development in the health and social care well, so you kind of that'll get you in the room, didn't really know what to expect. To be honest, when I went into that space, nobody gives you any sort of tips or training on what to expect when you go to the boardroom. Somebody bought me a book called The first 90 days. So I kind of read that book and thought and I'm ready for this. And I went into the royal Catherine very much with the view that at some point had 50 in my mind that milestone being 50. At some point in my mind, I'd like to be a CEO of an organization. But I didn't come here to be CEO came here to learn how to be an active director. And I'd been in roll out about 18 months. Our then CEO was retiring. And I was just wrapped up for just a few months. So my advice to everybody asked to act up for just a few months, never just a few months. So so so that's a big fat lie. Don't believe That one, it was a Yeah, I was acting up for a year. It was a long time, I like to call that periods of time it was tried before you die for both for both me and for the board, because I was, you know, I had experience, I had shown that I could be a good business development director and help business crap. Well, I don't anything else, not really, you know, kind of being considered a skill set being a CEO difference, I'd gone at the same time, but started with this thing that I always say women do this. So my lens of the world very much sort of a female perspective, but added on this thing, that one more qualification to apply for CEO roles. So I went back to their city back to Liverpool, where I did my first degree, and I went back and did an MBA at the time when it was in for that. But

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 5:52

you know, what, thoughts on the MBA

Rachel Peacock: 5:55

I had a great time. You know, I I've loved that MBA for so many reasons. But some of it was actually the course tutors. So I found a lot of people with similar worldviews to mine around people's rights and equality and all those sorts of things. But when I was interviewed the course tutor, program, tutor, Alice just said to me, what's the goal here? So I started to be a CEO at the time, I'm 50. And he was like, Well, how old are you now? I'm 42 is very much well, we can get you there sooner than that. And I was like, Yeah, okay, I'll just, like kind of, you know, calm down a little bit, while I was running this organization, through a big period of change, run in my house, because you know, I'm a mom and a wife as well, and a daughter. So the stuff that goes on at home. So I've got all that going on. I was going to university every Wednesday night and studying for this MBA. And even in all of that, nowhere was time for myself to kind of explore what leadership looks like, I know what it feels like, to me when it feels good in my life experience good. But there was nothing around looking at really deeply yourself and what shows up every day for other people. So for me what other people think, did you know the time there was missing, there was definitely something missing. I was watching output paths. And you know, we spent a lot of time together, you know what I'm like, with my goals, that I saw what was missing with the qualification. When Alistair and there's another tutor, they really had an impact on the alien, they'd be talking to me about the things that were possible to achieve. I was very much now I just need to pass this module on, I need to get kind of there. So there was a moment, about a year and a half in quite a serious incident at work. And I've gone to uni and I was dealing with some things that I needed to deal with him where I was stood sort of looking over this sort of balcony waiting to go in for lecture. And I remember Alice's words when he first introduced the cohort to the program, which was, this is going to be your home for the next three years. And I want you to feel like it's your home. And I was like, oh, Alysa really, I'm coming here, right after work. I'm getting this degree, triple across that stage in the cathedral with the best degree that I can possibly achieve. But this isn't gonna feel like home to me. There's about 18 months in and I say I just had a hell of a time of it and where and I was just leaning over the ballast or any walk past been I'd been interviewed for the permanent role by this point as well. I was waiting for the outcome of that. And I was just stood there looking over this palace of thanking God for this place. I don't know how I'd got through the last 18 months if I didn't have this place to come to. And Aleister composant said to me, You okay, I'm having a bit of a moment to be honest with ya. I never believed you when you said this would feel like how is it for warriors that have come here, Aleister and I can just be me. I'm not the CEO. I'm not the acting CEO. I was also still the business development director as well. I'm not the mom, I'm not the daughter. I'm not the way. I've just kind of feel really, really at home here. And I'm thinking Thank goodness for here. But even then, I didn't realize that there was something missing. Does that make sense? It was just this. This feeling of this feels good. This feels just what I need.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 9:19

Why but it feels. Yeah, some that some need of mine has been? Yeah,

Rachel Peacock: 9:23

yeah. Yeah. I'm an only child. So I'm used to standing out like a bit of a sore thumb anyway, so I like to be the only I was the only woman in the cohort I went into. I was the only person working in the charity sector. I was the oldest. So there was all sorts of young people in their late late 70s. I was in my early 40s. And, strangely enough in Liverpool, I was the only Scouser on the program as well. So there was there was lots of international students. So I just loved introducing them to my home city and just being around Okay, probably we're just very similar to myself. But I never asked myself why, why what was missing? But it was just it felt

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 10:06

there was something about feeling. Feeling at home feeling good. Yeah. In a place that was kind of temporary, but knowing that you couldn't feel like that in the workplace. Yeah. You didn't feel like that in the workplace? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So a year. Yeah, it was a year and a half ago that you reached out for coaching. Explore coaching with me. Give us a sense of what was going on for you at the time? Yes. Are you in the CEO role by now? Yeah, I've

Rachel Peacock: 10:32

been in the CEO role about five years by then be quietly stalking you for some time, I must confess. So. Let's not wait. Yeah. Like that. So yeah, I've been watching what you were up. So quite often, you know, people will talk about have you got a coach or they'd go my coach s. And then there were some people who would tell me the activity, they were trying to coach me without invitation, which I just thought it was a bit rude, really. I'd quite often say, Well, I'll let this continue. Because I'm kind of having a bit of fun. But soon as don't find this funny anymore, I will stop allowing this to take place. So I do think it's quite rude to coach people who haven't invited you in. So there's a lot of noise around coaching for me. So I was curious, I was definitely curious. So it started kinda like googling. And yeah, looking at some stuff on LinkedIn, and I found your newsletter, I think I found on Facebook actually, like so subscribed, I think I subscribe to your newsletter, probably about four or five months before I ever connected with you. While I was kind of getting to a point where there was a lot of trauma in our organization, or in the pandemic. And I didn't want to kind of connect it to that because all the time, I think like a lot of people times gotten mixed up. So I mixed a lot of kinds of meeting you with starting coaching journey, we were in the middle of the pandemic, but I didn't want to hook it on to that been looking for some time for where I could just talk really freely about whatever it was that was bothering me or excited me. So at the time, it was that I've been in role now for about five years, I was getting a little bit bored, I had quite a challenging time in work because of the pandemic. And there were things where it was I really just need somewhere to go to work this out. The way I've got the place I've got myself to To be honest, where it's probably time for me to move on now. I've been in this organization for longer than I intended to, I was coming to get that board experience and then move on. And I kind of always seen new challenges as new places. So this is the longest I'd ever worked anywhere even at that point in time. So at tend to move jobs about every four or five years. So I thought I was in a bit of a career rut that year. That's definitely where I was like, Okay, Coach, Mike helped me with that, if I understand coach in the way that I do. And I've also got it might ecosystem of support, because I've got loads of support around me. But I also have what I describe as a mentor as well. And she's always very, very clear with me that she's not a coach. She's not a trained coach. She's a professional friend, with some mentoring skills, who will give me that five minutes off. I just want to run around right now. And name's Melanie, and it was very much conversations with Mel about, I'm not your coach. And you might need to think about what you want out of coach because I can't give that that speciality. That's kind of what was going on when you want to stop stalking. Yeah,

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 13:37

I think mentoring and mentoring and coaching can get a little collapse, which I completely understand. Yeah, and I think the the difference is how you know, what are you contracting for? Yeah, I think mentoring is more of a drop in Can I call you when it's tricky or maybe once a month and just talk whatever is at the top of my mind and coaching has more structure and more goal orientation around that as well. So you find me because you're feeling a bit lost. Wondering what's next it's time to move on. You did share with me you have some thoughts about coaching just as a as an industry and as a sector what might actually happen what what was what I thought it was because this isn't me thinking the same thing. Yeah, yeah.

Rachel Peacock: 14:24

Let's talk a little bit self indulgent, you know, a little bit of like, I'm gonna be laying on a couch or whimsical whereas me, what's the point of exploring the fluff in your belly button when you could actually be getting on and doing some actual work? A little bit of that? And I think because as I say, I've had that experience of a couple of people you know, openly saying to me you know, attempted to coach you here I was kind of just thought it's just a work in a heavily regulated industry, Katherine, always have done so in Adult Social Care. Before that in children's services, so for me there was a better around a few charlatans out there who don't know what they're doing, as well. So I kind of come at it from where's the evidence base? What's this going to achieve? And yeah, am I just going to be paying somebody to tell me how wonderful I am? And let me crack on with life? See, I just thought of sort of a load of, yeah. fluffing your belly button we can all be doing without that.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 15:23

I think I'm fairly sure thing. And you said, Well, go ahead.

Rachel Peacock: 15:26

Yeah, I'm fairly sure. As I said to you when we met. I think I've definitely said, I thought it was awful for me belly button for a few times when we first sort of started meeting but what I loved when I first met you was that chemistry session. Unknown, you made it quite clear. I think, if we haven't got the chemistry, there's just no pointed out there in there. So I liked the intro to something that I wasn't really sure what I was getting into. I think that

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 15:53

chemistry session carries so much weight in this process for both of us like it's, it is what it is on the tin. Yeah, do we like each other? But do we feel we have a connection and a vibe that we can work with each other? Because what we're doing is relationship based? Yeah, it's not. You got to trust me to go poking around and asking questions. Yeah. I feel that What channel are you dealing with something that I have some experience, experience and skills to help you with? And sitting in it together? That's that's kind of the match. Yeah. Yeah, I think I do. Remember you've been quite open and honest. And I it makes me laugh. Because I think a lot of people think what you think around coating being because when what experience what evidence do you have? Yeah. Somebody like when your colleagues trying to coach you without permission? I mean, that's yeah, it's a different experience. Yeah. Let's just just jump ahead to the end of the story. So you started off thinking it was navel gazing, mumbo jumbo, if you will, to sort of summarize how do you feel about the process? What would you say about it now?

Rachel Peacock: 16:54

I'd say, because they weren't thinking isn't. It's not therapy, or it feels very, very therapeutic. So quite transformational. And I was thinking about this over the weekend, a lot of my cultural references are related to football, because that's kind of when I'm not in work. I'm following my football team. When Yeah, Ken Clark came to Liverpool eight years ago, the fans kind of lost their way with the club a little bit and didn't really ever think we were gonna get to achieve some of the things that we have achieved with with Jaeger and Clark, and one of his very first press releases, he said I'm gonna turn the doubters into believers and I think that's what you've done with me so it's that you know that my experience with year was my coach has been transformative to the point where I think I might have become a little bit evangelical and myself about other people's other people might might say that but I quite often find myself saying to either peers or colleagues have you thought about some coaching you know, that might help you or if you've got professional friends who are stuck in the same thing all the time, I find myself sort of talking to them about this isn't gonna change unless you really unpack what really is going on for yourself and you've got a choice you can choose to continue if this way you feel and serve and a purpose for you. And Happy Days stick with it. Well actually, you've got the same problem coming out here all the time. The people around you closest to you either, especially in a row like mine CEO role you know, it's hard to kind of give that real constructive feedback to people who are in technically hierarchy the most senior role in an organization so definitely transformative is the way I describe it. And also, I can't imagine not having this as part of my development every year my plan you know, that kind of structure because there it is structured and yeah, it does get a bit hard at times for couldn't be without it now.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 18:56

You really are the evangelists now

Rachel Peacock: 19:00

I am standing on call and it's grabbing

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 19:06

flies up north for you so you can get some flyers

Rachel Peacock: 19:11

everybody knows about Coach Catherine

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 19:16

I think your summary of when to consider coaching is just so spot on this idea of you have things this challenges problem, this relationship issue, whatever it is at work that persists and everything you've tried hasn't worked, is it Einstein quote, guaranteeing the same thing expecting a different outcome than a sign of insanity? And I can relate to that, you know, I think a lot of my clients are like you to say no super smart, very skilled and have done very well up until now. And then you there comes a point where like, I've got it the seven different ways and I I can't seem to sort it out and I think that's your human. It's okay. And there are other ways of finding help out of which coaching is one therapy is another one, but they are they're helpful professionals out there for this. Yeah. To say a bit more about your dog has been transformative, through a bit more about what do you see as chair, how you've changed as a result of our work together? Oh,

Rachel Peacock: 20:09

I think I've said it a bit earlier on. And I make no apologies for this. What other people think about me is really important. I want people to have a good experience. And that doesn't always happen. But I hope that I'm never deliberately going out there to kind of be a bit of a defeat. But for me, in this last 18 months, the feedback that I've got from people who are closest to me, who can, I've seen me at my best and seeing me, not my best, the feedback that I get from them, as you seem so much calmer and at ease with yourself, you no matter what other people think of me, but what do I think there was a moment I think it was in the summer this year where we had a session, and I can't even remember what led was terrible. We had a conversation about one relationship that I'd got that was just kind of, I'm expending all my energy on trying to work out what this person's motivation is, what are they doing? What are they going to do next? I wasn't responding very well. And we've spent a good hour where we just on Pat, what does that look like? What are the behaviors, responses from yourself that we don't like? And we did go into a bit of what things were like when I was growing up. And you know, we did get into that space, but it felt safe, and it felt comfortable. And the outcome of it was actually all of the things that I don't like in this particular pair. So I just held a mirror up to myself, and I do the myself. So and it was like this real sort of this moment of realization that nothing's gonna change. If I carry on like this, this, this is just not going to be good relationship. And what's more important, good relationships really, really important. 70% of my job is about having good relationships with people. And there was not understanding why. And I remember that moment, I remember in the session saying, well, this isn't what I was expecting today, thank you very much. But, and then went away. And I fell. I felt this, I think this sounds daft. But I felt physically, like, there was this physical change in me. And we see each other about every three weeks, every four weeks, and it sustained itself. So it came back to the next session. And I said, you know, what I feel different than a worry is, but like this knot in my stomach, and this little desire to just prove my time, right, and this other person is wrong. It's just like, it's just not even there anymore. I feel physically different. And I was never expecting that to happen. I was expecting you to tell me I'm right. That person's Damn it.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 22:48

Is your client. Yeah, that person's wrong.

Rachel Peacock: 22:51

You're the best thing since sliced bread. And I was talking at home with the family about it as well, actually. My daughter said to me, the thing is, you don't have to share every thought you've got in your head all the time. That's my own daughter play in that backup me? Yeah. Yeah, I was like, Well, you know what, I don't see the point of having these thoughts if I can't share it with the world. But she was very. I was like, I'm listening to hear what people have got to say, rather than to respond. Yes, hard. It's hard, hard. It's

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 23:28

a huge, that's a huge shift. Yeah,

Rachel Peacock: 23:31

that difference in that particular relationships. It's just like, a person, they're actually a really fascinating and interesting human being who's got like this amazing story to tell and, and do it in a way that works for me, you know, with a bit of fun, a bit of Daft stories, and I wasn't even investing any time and getting to that place. So I was missing out on having, you know, a really good experience. Was it a strong relationship? That's kind of like been one of the hugest things that happened for me in the last 18 months, your days gone by I'd kind of gone? Well, we don't get on. But we'll find a way to work through that. Because we're professional. Well, that kind of thing. And actually just putting a bit of effort in and realizing there was some hooks there. And I was I

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 24:17

mean, that's the effort, right? The effort is can you heal the part of yourself that's getting triggered? In this relation to Yeah, and can you? Can you value being in relationship over being right? Yeah. Which is hard. You know, especially if you're one of the smartest people in the room being right is a very common place to hang out. For you and many of my clients, yeah. But as you said, at the C suite being right, it doesn't matter as much as being in relationships, because you get things done through the relationship. Yeah, yeah. Nobody

Rachel Peacock: 24:52

tells you that. I think that's scary to the role. Nobody tells you that it's you. You find out by McKinsey. things off and maybe not having the best relationships that you can have. So, you know, shouldn't be a secret.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 25:07

And the lightness you talk about, I hear that a lot from people and I've experienced it myself, when the receiving end of coaching, I think gets a little, I always have a sense of like a little party clicking into place, you know, and we're also in search of our wholeness and, and like, oh, that you have, there's some tension that energy requires to hold this awkwardness out of sync in in these conversations, little parts do you fit in, you know, I can just let go and not have to expend that energy on holding, whatever that thing was that wasn't serving me, values have played a big role in in our work as well. Understanding your values, and then learning how to apply them.

Rachel Peacock: 25:43

One of the things I really liked about getting started, as I say, you know, bear in mind, I'm standing up thinking, this is all a load of rubbish, I'll just dip in, I'll see what happens. But one of the first things that we did together was the exercise around values. My organization does a lot about organizational values. So we kind of look a lot of values as an organization, and how we in the organization show up and demonstrate those values. And in all of the years of psychometric test and personality profiling, and all of the things that you get subjected, I'm gonna say subjective, because it feels like that you get subjected to, to get into these jobs, I don't remember any of them talking about my values, you know. So remember, I think, joking around one time around some psychometric tests, and that we were doing as a leadership team. And I remember seeing a list of them. In fact, I think I sent them all to year as part of my pack of introducing myself to you, here's all my psychometric tests, go to town, because you've got nothing to hide. I've got nothing left to show. What a fool. But we didn't do anything around file. We didn't do anything around values. And in any of those deeply embedded in values, in terms of some of the evidence base is not as overt as a you and I did that piece around, you know, if you have to really nail it to just three, what are your three values? And certainly, in some of the early conversations that we had, the playback that I was here, and you know, talk to you about some things. And the question you always came back to me with was Why don't you apply your own values to yourself? And that was something to get curious about. So you know, my values are simplicity, and harmony and honesty, I don't do those things by myself, you know, all kinds of that they'll, you know, what do we call it the shitty committee. Megan, the chair of the shitty committee, in my head, I have a lovely conversation about all the things that I could be doing better under wherever I kind of caught myself. In the early days, I wasn't catching myself and saying, I'm going to meet Rachel, you've got three values that you actually do live your life by, and you measure yourself by what you don't actively stopping to think about them. So the work that we've done, I think, in our one to ones, but also in the coaching circle that I've joined, is very much around what's going on here, you know, one of your values, competing with another value, is that why this particular problem keeps presenting itself? It's not just when people talk about values. It's not just about an organization's the individual, having them. I've always been very clear on the purpose, Katherine, that one, you know, there's real fire in my belly for social justice and very clear what I'm here to do and achieve. But I've never really deeply explored those values about how do I get there. So that's been part of what I've loved about the work that we've been doing in the last 18 months, two years, however long it is feels feels like about two years now to me. That's the six months

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 28:56

aware that it was four months, about 20 minutes ago? Yeah. I think I think that values is just one of those pieces of work you'd get to do in coaching that gets you to come home to yourself, like you're standing in the in the university when you're doing your MBA, having a felt sense of what home was like, I think so much of coaching is the conversation that gives you the awareness of really knowing what home I want to make the difference between knowing in your head upon into my head and feeling in your body like what feels like when you're living your values like it feels right. It may be a hard decision. You may get upset with you, but it feels right in your body. And it's this idea of sensations and feelings and emotions. I know we've had conversations about that much to horror, but unfortunately it is. I remember

Rachel Peacock: 29:52

doing this what do you want to talk about this? But then you know who I am. That's important

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 29:58

about why it feels there. therapeutic writing. Who else no one had work asks you how you feel and whether they care. I mean, how are you today is a throwaway comment. No one really, really wants to know or can cope with what comes back. But noting we're integrating the full your heart and your and your soul and your mind together. I think that's the beauty of coaching. Yeah,

Rachel Peacock: 30:20

yeah. And I think, and it's, I'm sure it was something you said too, because I found myself repeating it. I'm fairly sure it's something I've either heard you say, or we've talked about, I did a session with another charity, a couple months ago, a webinar. As part of their sort of their leadership, they're doing sort of exploring their own leadership styles and and where they are at the team. And I was a guest speaker, it was a delight to be asked, and I just thought, I'll just turn up and talk about some of the mistakes I've made. And hopefully they won't make them. But if they make them at least they know what, it's not the end of the world sort of thing? Or is that peace around leading with your help in and you have a body not just from the neck? Or? So, you know, I know, we've talked about that. And it's just that around? Yeah, the heads got to make some difficult decisions at times, head also gets to make some great decisions at times, you know, I love this job. And yeah, the trade off to that is sometimes there's some difficult decisions to make. But for me, when my head and my heart are aligned, and this feels right, hadn't appreciated, that there is a physical, you know, an absolute physical feeling to that, that I put that down to my Englishness. Catherine, you know, we don't do the talk about feelings very much. And any English people listening to the podcast, you don't agree, I'm so sorry. But, you know, when we've talked, we've talked, you know, in our coaching circle where although friends have talked about, you know, physically feeling like the adrenaline in their body or physically feeling, you know, and I had listened to it, and I was thinking I don't, I don't talk like that. I don't think like that. I don't stop and listen to my body. I do now. And it's okay, right? I'm a bit knackered, there's a reason why I'm feeling a bit tired or feeling a bit irritated here. And actually what I've learned to do as well, particularly with the people who were closest with me, who were all these super talented senior executives in their own right, I would never talk about that, you know, I'd never sort of say I'm feeling a little bit irritated or a bit frustrated about these sort of things, or, or this is what I need, this is what works for me, I'd have started settling last six months, I negotiate that with the people closest to me more. And that's, I think, when I said earlier on about the feedback that they've been given me as it feels like you're at your best. This is, you know, we've seen you do this, but you're doing it consistently now. And that, that where x is working for us all really well, in terms of the relationship here is much more important than who's right and who's wrong. And

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 32:47

my sense in work and just talking to you here is it feels there's more ease in how you sort of as a leader, yes, still the same hard work and the hard decisions you have to make. Yeah, but the ease of that you carry the role, the way which carry they'll feel feels more useful and light, savoring trivia,

Rachel Peacock: 33:06

I would say 90% of the time, I would say, you know, look at me putting a finger in the KPI. I would say definitely. Whereas the output

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 33:18

context, I can't thank the staff that I see. I

Rachel Peacock: 33:22

can't help myself. But it definitely, it definitely does. And, you know, I've got chair on my board is somebody who is compassionate leadership is one of his research fields. So every conversation I have with the chair of my board, gives me an evidence base, even without, you know, just in general conversation, it'll it'll give me an evidence base of this is what a compassionate leader doors, let's see you doing this and shares me with just really, really positive feedback. And even when you say, you've got this, go ahead and do it, you know, we had a conversation a couple of months ago, and I was saying, I need to let you know, I've done this, this and this, why do you need to let me know that because I just expect it to be there and that I just have some more confidence in the decisions you make it. And let's talk about why not. But one of the things he always says to me is, when he come to our organization, he said you're all a little bit tense. And everyone was a little bit kind of, you know, fractious with each other, I think, and you said why don't we just relax and try and have a bit of fun? I think because the work we do is so superior, you know, we you know, we'll look at a very, very poorly people, but looking after people who are most marginalized in society, and we deal with big stuff. So heavily regulated, as I've said, and then sometimes we forget to have fun in the joy that we have in everyday. So I'm kind of take a line in my coaching experience with the experience I'm having with the chair of a board who again, is a big fan of coach and I've talked to him about it and you know, his area of interest in terms of research and all kinds of We're gonna go with this. This is where you learn behaviors, you know, the behaviors to model, I never leave the room without having had really positive feedback, really good kinds of, you know, boosting, you know, you're doing a really good job team around you agree. And I'm just modeling that back, I reflected back into my team. So yeah, we have some naughty conversations, being

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 35:23

on a journey, being able to accept and hear feedback. Positive feedback in particular. wasn't easy for you in the beginning to hear positive feedback. I still

Rachel Peacock: 35:33

cringe. I'm still now. I'm just gonna get Harold to be blocking this a little bit. Yeah. It takes I can take the criticism, um, because I bring it on. Yeah. Okay. And I'll suck it up allegory or why when a great positive feedback? Well, what you're doing that for, you know, that still makes me a little bit cringy. But that's part of the reason why when did we do it now? Was it earlier in this year? Yeah. When I did the leadership circle feedback, I did the 360 degree. So I counted over a year ago. I think it's about a year. Yeah, thinking about who I asked to do it and stuff. It's about a year ago. Now. I did it, then Katherine, you know, I got this big, massive report. You gave me that challenge of not opening it until I spoke to you. And that was cruel. So I was like, I'm gonna be a

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 36:26

better person. But it was coming down the pipe.

Rachel Peacock: 36:29

Yeah, like to see what's coming, you know, Christmas and birthdays. I have a little sneak at the present. So you know, my husband thought it was hilarious. I was like, I was waving this envelope and saying, I can't open this for two weeks. And he was like, Oh, yeah. So literally, he signed the seal. So yeah, let's see if you can do this. So there was challenge the challenge came into the Harris as well. I did it. So yeah, the first thing I did, when I opened that pack was just go to the stuff that people had said I needed to improve on. And that was just my sole focus straightaway. What is it that is isn't showing up that people need from me? Because I've done this piece of work to try and better. So I focus on all the stuff. You know, that makes it sound like there's loads, I've just focused on the pieces of that report that were these are the things that Rachel could stop doing or do less of? It's instead of looking at the okay, there's some great stuff here that she does. And when she shows up like that, that's the Rachel I love working with, I still find that I still got work to do on that one. Well,

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 37:37

I think our whole corporate system is designed to run in a weakness focus, if you look at most of the feedback we've ever got is what you're doing wrong and what needs to change. It's not it's the acknowledgement side of that was brilliant, or the championing side is almost non existent. So most of us are trained to be on the backfoot waiting to hear why we are failing in some way. And that goes to the core part of how we need to belong. Yeah, groups of people, it's incredibly painful to find out why how you're feeling. You took a lot of value from the 360 assessment than you know, what were some of the key takeaways for you from that process.

Rachel Peacock: 38:14

I liked, it was very structured. I liked the evidence may show it comes from this pool of 1000s and 1000s of people who are in leadership roles who've kind of looked at the different domains very bizarrely, because I work in a regulated industry. I treated it like my CQC inspection. So in the care where else the Care Quality Commission isn't Yeah, okay. Yeah, have they had the chance to build up what they have five key lines of inquiry so I just treated it like that and then the region so I've given myself my region I reckon I've got a one outstanding two goods no one requires improvement in my leadership. So it's worked really well for me but I actually saw going into it I thought I'd be more interested in the you know, the written side of it because I'm, you know, I'm more of a speaker than I am a numbers person. And but it was actually the data that really helped me you know, once kind of stopped looking for you know, maybe one negative comment, I started looking at the data and going okay, there's, there's loads in here that I'm doing really well, I could do better. And then I'll get me overall outstanding, sort of rated, which is what I'm aiming for.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 39:30

It's such a rich seam of data, isn't it that we don't normally get most internal 360s In this for for listeners sake is an external assessment tool I use called the leadership circle profile. Most internal processes give you a rating out of five so you get self awareness 4.2 Out of five at all, and I'm knocking that out the park. That's all good. Yeah, but this is against the database of 100,000 other people so you say well, actually, you only and the 60s percent So that's 40% of people in the database who are more self aware than you like, well, that's interesting, because you're gonna mean compared against people in your industry at your level. So you could send that there wasn't Rachel squire just made that score. And I think that also takes out the well, who said, the internal processes have ways of being, although a lot of anonymous ways of being revealed, is going to kind of work out who said, What, and you spend way too much time saying, well, that's just following accounts. I think bobbin accounts is an example that I've never worked on accounts, we've got nobody account, I turned down. I turned on Bob's application for something. So he is taking you out, like that takes all of that out. All that defensiveness that I think comes from these processes and see the impact that you're having, versus the impact that you think you're having? And how to how to close that. Yeah, yeah.

Rachel Peacock: 40:52

I mean, I like to extend or benchmark, but I also liked what information you gave me in house as well, because for me very clearly, how I think I show off very much, people a bit further away from me and the organization See, see that. So those you know, our scores were very similar to each other, but people closest to me, people who have to work with me every day, or both me, they were experiencing something different. And it goes right back to the time and the investment in my relationship with the people who are closest, in terms of the day to day, who does she turn or pass today kind of thing. And that's where I've been putting a lot of my work and attention is in that kind of my senior leadership team, my trustees and my board, who see a different version of me to people who are a bit further into the organization. So a show off the way I think I want to show up for them. But there was something happened in there for us, which again, is improved the relationships even just because I've shared that with them, talk to them about that. And we've had a bit of fun with it as well, because that's important to me. And

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 42:00

without having this data, you wouldn't know that. I mean, this is one of the things that coaching brings is how do you close that blind spot that you're the thing you don't know, you don't know about? How do you how do you get to find out? Yeah, and then have some context and framework to do something about that. Yeah, having somebody skill to help you unpack? Yeah, yeah. We haven't mentioned one of the things that you resisted for a very long time, which was journaling. Make journaling when I first mentioned that,

Rachel Peacock: 42:32

I used to write some crappy poetry when I was a teenager. Yeah, I was just like, Oh, I've got enough to do. You know, I'm religiously doing me her work all the time for this woman. And now she's given me Journal. And today. Yeah, just about, yeah, I had had a guy worried a good few years ago. And maybe that didn't help because that was one of these an off the shelf kind of book, name three people you want to give gratitude to today, do this do that, you know, reconnect with a friend who's not connected? It was very kind of, I think I did it for about three weeks and have got bad things to do with my time gonna be cake before I'd rather do that. So you know, I was just like, bothered. So I don't know we kept talking about it didn't renew even you know, you've given me two journals. Give me the two

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 43:26

shorter partner watch

Rachel Peacock: 43:28

the pandemic. It's kind of like you might you might find this useful. Yeah, I just didn't make time for it. I have to

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 43:36

confess. What was the turning point,

Rachel Peacock: 43:39

the turning point, but was that I actually, because I've started it now. And it's only recently, I think, Summer, this summer time, there was a real definite turning point in a session which we had in the summer where I knew I was feeling like this, I didn't think this is what I was going to talk to you about the debt on the day, I can come up with a little knotty problem to talk to you about what I started by saying to be feeling a bit there for the last couple of weeks, and I've been dressing up as a bit bored, or, you know, we've had such a racy time of it here that, you know, now that's all settled down, that I've you know, can't demonstrate my Superwoman powers at the moment. So, and we kind of like, talk through a couple of things. And, you know, I've, there's been a lot of change around me in the organization in the last 12 months, much of it instigated by myself, I have to say, what it means that their colleagues aren't here anymore, and hadn't stopped and realized how much I was missing them, you know, really, really just missing out, you know, some of them I'm still in touch with and I'll always be in touch with, but missed them in the day to day that that kind of

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 44:46

grieving their absence. Yeah. And

Rachel Peacock: 44:48

I didn't do that. And then there was a book that you recommend to me to read about winter in the opening line goes along the lines of some winter start in the summer. It's Long that line and it was basically, it just really hit a note, I don't think I did kinds of aligned journaling with writing crappy poetry when I was 16. So I thought, well, I'll just give it a go. And I'll introduce it into my new routine in the morning. So in the morning, I like to listen to the breakfast show on the radio. And I still like that noise in the background that kind of helps with my thought process, but just that active for just 15 minutes, just writing, just absolutely write anything that just comes into your mind, just stopping that to do I'm distracted, it stopped at 15 minutes. And I don't go back to it straightaway, even you know, in the day or anything like that. It's usually at the end of the week, I'll have a little read through. And I can see, oh, all the time I've wasted this week on this one thing that's going to happen anyway. So you know, what am I trying to do to metal and things that are going to happen? That, you know, let's let's just deal with whatever we need to deal with? So we've got quite a common van Jellicle about journaling. But just the power of saying, I'm not sure I haven't Well, I'm still tempted to try and make it rhyme

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 46:17

doesn't have to rise? Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel Peacock: 46:21

Yeah, this is yeah. Yeah. The English graduate in middle comes out every now and again. So

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 46:28

you've got what its key benefit? I think journaling is that is that standing on the dance floor looking down on your, you know, on the balcony of your dance on the dance looking down on you on the dance floor and having that symmetrical cognition moment of like, I've been doing this thing for like, two weeks now. Like, what's what's really going on? Like, it's a feeling maybe it's a behavior, and maybe it's a gun and whatever, whatever it is, and it gives you that little perspective that you otherwise wouldn't have. Because most of us live our life on autopilot, right? Yeah. So yeah, I think I'll come back in a year's time and see how you're getting on with

Rachel Peacock: 47:06

it because this is how evangelical I've become about Coach and Pastor, I even tell my best friend all about it when we go out for dinner. She ain't interested. She's a woman, I was telling her about the journaling. And, and, you know, you know, when people have known you, for more than a lifetime, you know, me and Jane have been made since we were 14. She just turned around said to me, you were always writing, you know, she said, I've still got suitcases full of letters that you know, when we both went off to university because she left Liverpool for a while and I stayed at home. And, you know, when we were both kind of like, you know, starting families and you didn't have as much time to spend with each other. She's I've got like, Oh, I was on a long journey home coming home for a football match. I'd write a letter while I was coming home. And just like, I've got like shed loads of stuff you always always writing what is your resistance to this is that kind of helps the head to the head and see what's going on. And you can see it in writing helps you have a little look and go okay, something's going on here. Another

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 48:06

client of mine says Alexa did for the brain or

Rachel Peacock: 48:11

the brain. Yeah, my, my head of marketing always used to say to me, I'm having a brain dump. And I'm like, go for it.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 48:20

I'm really appreciating your your sharing Rachel. And I think coaching is a very personal and quite vulnerable place to step into. So you're free to come on the podcast and share your experiences. It's just gold for me and for listeners. And I wondered if you had any thoughts of if you would have known what you know now about coaching and the journey you've been on? Would you have made different decisions in the beginning? In choosing coaching,

Rachel Peacock: 48:44

I probably would have only stopped here for a year. Yeah, I would have done it sooner. Just keep adding timeline to that. So yep, no, I was gonna say, Yeah, I was just sitting and if you were listening, I definitely would have stepped into it sooner. I kind of regret not doing it sooner. And very much now with as I'm seeing people around me flourish and grow very much. So get yourself a coach as part of this, because there's only so much that I'm going to be able to help you with or the people around, you're gonna be able to help you but there's gonna be you know, some unpacking that you're gonna need to do. And you can only do that somewhere where it's not a work relationship. I think I regret not being more curious about it when people who were really, really respect and look up to talk to me about it, and I was just like, oh, yeah, you know, loads of rubbish. So I would have definitely done that difference. I'd like to say something, you know, like, I'd have thought about my goals a bit more and that might be bullshitting. Yeah, it's getting to it sooner is what I would have. Yeah, if I could do them differently. That's what I did. When

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 49:49

I was listening to this and sitting on the fence about coaching or not, would you say just get on with it?

Rachel Peacock: 49:53

Just jump in.

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 49:54

Do it go just give

Rachel Peacock: 49:55

it give it a go? Yes, you can walk away if you need to. But actually, once you're in And I say, I can't imagine this. Not having this as part of my, as long as I'm co making space or anywhere else. I can't imagine this this part of my my ecosystem, my support network. Yeah,

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 50:13

that's beautifully said. I mean, I think there's give it a go. But also do your best. I think that's what you've always done. Yes. For all your skepticism, and resistance. You've always been open to challenge you've always been open to strange exercises I have suggested, you've done it all. Even with a raised eyebrow at times,

Rachel Peacock: 50:31

the one thing I won't do it, and you never worry. When you suggested a seven day silent retreat,

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 50:38

I did that with my with a big smile on my face. That was never gonna happen. You've

Rachel Peacock: 50:43

got to do the work. You've got to do the work. But it doesn't feel like work. Catherine, I enjoy it. It feels like it was

Catherine Stagg-Macey: 50:52

just a beautiful place in there, Rachel. So thank you, thank you for coming here and helping me share, you know, behind the curtain what a coding experience is like, thank you. Always falling in love with my clients. And if you think that's just a bit of kind of wet in marketing BS, it's not. In the early days, when I first started working 10 years ago, I did not level my chance. I've got so much better according in the kind of people that are a good match. And then I fall in love with them, and I want to champion the hell out of them. Rachel Hollis. That's kind of relationship we have. And part of Rachel success that perhaps isn't that obvious from what we spoke about was just how hard she worked between sessions, you really did the work. And that's what makes a coaching, investment worthwhile. She had the conversations you needed to have tried out the new things we'd agreed that would make sense for her new every coaching conversation is completely bespoke and emergent, from from what the client needs in that moment, as she's reaping the rewards of her commitment and her investment in itself. So I'm also very grateful for her to to be willing to share what is often a very vulnerable and private process coaching. In her sharing, I think she just helps the world understand a bit more about the power of coaching, what actually happens in that coaching versus world needs more leaders like Rachel who are willing to kind of go through that edge of their discomfort for the sake of being able to bring more of themselves to the world so they can have a greater impact and their work. If you think it's your time. Let's talk and work with me is the part of the show notes. Until next time, your friends. This was the only woman signing off