152: Finding Love and Purpose in Unexpected Places ft Chris Teo & Genevieve Toh

Raphael Harry [00:00:00]:

Welcome to White Label American Podcast. This is a podcast that brings you bold, in-depth interviews with interesting people that are mostly immigrants taking down artificial walls one story at a time. This is a podcast that empowers immigrants to share their stories and listen to those of others. Thank you for joining us. You are welcome to another episode of White Label American. I'm your host Raphael Harry, and I'm happy that you all are here. Thank you all for being with us. If you want to support this podcast, check out the show notes. You got everything you need there. And hey, thank you to everyone who's been giving us five stars reviews, and we appreciate the love if you haven't. Hey, you know what to do. Do the right thing. With that being said, let's meet today's guests. I am honored to have two of my neighbors that for some reason we didn't connect all this time. Well, there's a good reason for I have one excuse, but thanks to the power of volunteering, I have today's guests in the studio with me. So shout out to volunteering. And I have two distinguished people with me. First time I have people from the country that they were born in. So yay. Because I've been trying to get people if you're a longtime listener, you know that my dream is to have at least one person from every country on earth so happy and honored to have two very talented people. Two. Very distinguished people and two of the most exciting people that I've when I read their bio, I was just like, wow, this is just amazing. So it's crazy. You see people every day in your neighborhood and you don't get to talk to them all the time. And sometimes you're like, man, I wish maybe I should say something, maybe I shouldn't, but I don't know. But sometimes maybe just have a good morning because you don't know what will come out from that. So I'm guilty of that sometimes. I know some of you might not believe that because I do a podcast and some of you met me in real life. You can talk. Yeah. But I'm glad that they agreed to come on the podcast and they're here today. So without saying too much, I'm honored to have with me Genevieve and Chris Teo, right? Yes. Spot on.

Chris Teo [00:03:01]:

Thank you for having us.

Raphael Harry [00:03:02]:

Hey, thanks for coming in.

Genevieve [00:03:04]:

Thank you.

Raphael Harry [00:03:05]:

Such a great honor to have you guys here. I love having people from the neighborhood. It's both small and big at the same time. So it's really beautiful to have you guys here. I'm saving your bio. I could have touched on your bio already, but the audience, they'll get to know more about you guys more. Keep diving into your stories, but let's go straight into your origins. So let's go to the very beginning. What are the meaning of your names, and is there a story behind you coming to bear those names.

Genevieve [00:03:47]:

Yes. My name is Genevieve. I'm going to tell you my full name since you asked an interesting question so that I can tell you more about the meaning of your name. So my full name is Genevieve Tow, and then I have, like, a very rough English translation of what is my Mandarin name? So my Mandarin name is I'm going to say it shuan.

Raphael Harry [00:04:07]:

Okay.

Genevieve [00:04:08]:

But in English, it's very poorly translated to shuitwan, which often gets mistranslated and corrupted into something else.

Raphael Harry [00:04:17]:

I can see that.

Genevieve [00:04:18]:

But the Chinese name, sherwin actually means it's made of two characters, and one is called rainbow. Sorry, shear is snow, and one is rainbow. So my Chinese name actually means snow and rainbow, and my name, Genevieve, is a Christian name, and my parents gave that to me, and it means pure and white. So, strangely, maybe they were trying to find some relation between the snow part and toe. It's a very common Cantonese surname. It's made up of the characters wood and soil. So lots of nature references in my name. So that's what my name means.

Raphael Harry [00:05:13]:

That's beautiful.

Genevieve [00:05:14]:

Thank you.

Raphael Harry [00:05:15]:

Wow. I like that. Very popular Nigerian actress in Nollywood. Genevieve onaji. And I think that was the person who popularized the name Genevieve.

Genevieve [00:05:29]:

Right.

Raphael Harry [00:05:30]:

So just like, wow, I never realized the meaning of Genevieve.

Genevieve [00:05:36]:

Yeah. I've never met any other genovese here.

Raphael Harry [00:05:39]:

In New York City. Genevieve is not a name that you come across every now and then. It's a name that stands out.

Genevieve [00:05:49]:

Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:05:51]:

What about you, Chris?

Chris Teo [00:05:52]:

Well, I'm also Asian or Chinese. But you said I'm Singaporean Chinese, so my full name is Chris. TIO is my last name. Right. Kok Liang in Mandarin is Kual Liang, which basically means kindness and kindness within the country to bring some kindness. I think that the other point on Chris is I actually thought that the name Chris was cool by sound. Over time, I was introduced to the idea of who St. Christopher is. I was introduced to the faith of Christ. I was like, okay, I see where that's going. And to me, that resonated. And, yeah, I just took it on, stuck with it.

Raphael Harry [00:06:36]:

Okay.

Chris Teo [00:06:37]:

Yeah. And I guess sorry, I guess for the purpose of the folks on the podcast who don't know me very well, I don't mind throwing one more thing in there. Which is my middle name or my baptism name, which is Joseph, which I always took as someone who I thought was good worker, someone who cared for the family. So that's something that I always appreciated. Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:07:03]:

I'm thinking now if I used to have a book well, I borrowed it from my eldest sister when I was a teenager, but it was a book of names, and Joseph was one of the names that because when I played my fellow with my friends as teenagers, then we used to go through all the names. I remember I'm trying to recall joseph, I know went through Joseph a lot, and Joseph was quite a popular name back then, I think, over time, I know Joseph was a Hebrew name and the Arabic version is Yusuf to come to me, it's one of those. But just for some reason, when you said Joseph, I was like, I remember saying, I can see the line, and I'm like, Where's the meaning? Where's the meaning? But trying to recall if the meaning was the exact same meaning as you said. But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised it's the same meaning. And I was thinking of dreams because in Old Testament way, Joseph interprets translates interprets dreams. Yeah, maybe that's where my mind was going. But yeah.

Chris Teo [00:08:16]:

Beautiful.

Raphael Harry [00:08:16]:

Beautiful. So, yeah, I always love asking about names and you discover a lot of things. And I love the characters with with Chinese or that part of Asia, the way people use characters there. And I'm like, just fascinating to learn about that. You've already given part of the answer to the next question, but we need to go down to narrow it down to city or region for those of us who are not too familiar with that part of the world. So, place of birth, can you introduce us to your place of birth and what childhood was like for you? Well, I think Chris will go first.

Chris Teo [00:09:05]:

They've been pointing at each other. Singapore is I mean, there's no state, right? It's quite funny. It's actually quite a joke. Every time I fill up the form and then it's like, city, Singapore, country Singapore. It's a very small country. It's unlike us where there are multiple states and multiple neighborhoods. So growing up was a very humble setting. I grew up in a very small flat. Right. It's a public housing development. It's a bit different from the public housing here, where 80% of the population actually live in public housing, which basically just means that it is somewhat subsidized. The government has a policy to help get folks with a roof over their head as far as possible so that there is no homeless situation, or at least it's not rampant for a safe space for people to live. So I grew up in the humble setting. My dad was a fireman. My mom did some odd jobs. Sometimes she helped at factories, sometimes she helped clean homes. And yeah, I had no siblings. I still have no siblings. So I grew up with my own devices, looking after myself. I went through school and I lived in relatively humble neighborhood.

Raphael Harry [00:10:21]:

So is that why Singapore is referred to as a city state?

Chris Teo [00:10:25]:

Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:10:26]:

Okay.

Chris Teo [00:10:26]:

You are correct.

Raphael Harry [00:10:27]:

Okay. Because I've had that reference before. Excuse me, how do you guys describe neighborhoods since you don't have cities or regions? It's just like one big Singapore. Do we have Parkslope in Brooklyn, Greenwood and all these places? Do you have something like that in Singapore?

Chris Teo [00:10:57]:

Yeah, we do have we have various neighborhoods. Obviously, those neighborhoods are much smaller in the area. So I grew up in a neighborhood called Topayo, and I believe Jen grew up in neighborhood court.

Genevieve [00:11:13]:

It's a little bit of a longer answer. So when my parents gave birth to me, they themselves lived in a really tiny home, so they wanted the best for me. So when I was born, they sent me to go live with my grandmother.

Raphael Harry [00:11:31]:

Okay.

Genevieve [00:11:31]:

Yeah. So I was living with my grandmother from Mondays to Fridays. A big chunk of my childhood in a little neighborhood called Tiongbaru, which is like a really old school. The houses and the buildings there are still pre war today, but it's become such a hip neighborhood today because it's conservationists and they keep the old homes, but it's got lots of bars and cafes and really what we call in Singapore, atas bakeries atas. The word atas means, like, really fancy, fancy schmancy. But it's a beautiful area. But when I grew up in it, it was really old school. It was very traditional Chinese. I remember that I used to take a trishaw to school. So, like, my school is just like a ten minute walk, but my granddad would pay $0.20 in those days, which is about 40 years ago. I'm not hiding anything. He would pay trishaw. I'm not sure if you call it trishaw or rickshaw. It's basically a man or a person pulling, like, a seat on wheels.

Raphael Harry [00:12:44]:

Different countries have variation.

Genevieve [00:12:46]:

Yeah. So I remember that really clearly because you don't see things like that anymore today in modern Singapore.

Raphael Harry [00:12:54]:

Wow.

Genevieve [00:12:54]:

And then on weekends, I would sometimes spend time with my parents little place. And then eventually, when I was five or six, they finally could afford to buy a family home. And it was an apartment in a neighborhood called Marine Parade or Sigla. It's around the east coast of Singapore. It's sort of between those two neighborhoods that I mentioned, but it was along the east coast of Singapore, which is like a beautiful what I find a beautiful neighborhood. It's by the sea. There's a long stretch of beach on it, and it's also got, like, a really chill. People walk around in flip flops is that kind of chill kind of neighborhood. But I believe the air on the east side of Singapore is cleaner and different. I always joke the air is cleaner on the east side. So I'm trying to say, like, I grew up in these two different neighborhoods.

Chris Teo [00:13:52]:

I guess if I were to draw a nexus there to New York, then it's like Williamsburg. Before it's Williamsburg, but now Williamsburg is called a hipsterville.

Raphael Harry [00:13:59]:

Right.

Chris Teo [00:13:59]:

Theonbaru is a hipsterville.

Raphael Harry [00:14:01]:

All right, that's a good one. Yeah. So where would you consider your favorite childhood memory to come from?

Genevieve [00:14:11]:

My favorite childhood memory, there's just so many. Right. And childhood is actually such a multifarious diverse time. I'm only be able to say this because I happened to just spend an hour yesterday with my son Ezra, looking through my old photographs from childhood, and he was like, oh, you're a baby there. Oh, you're a toddler here. Yeah, they were all different parts of childhood, but one thing that I always remember is living daily life with my grandparents. They lived in a pre war home. It was really old. The layout of it was very unique. And so I remember it like, every day after dinner. I was like, three or four. And it's a tiny place. It's also a very humble setting. And I would have to sleep in the same bedroom as my grandmother and my grandfather, and they had a bed for two, but they would squeeze me onto it, and that was how I slept for six years of my life. And then next to that bed, there was this also, like, a piece of furniture that I've never seen again, ever before. It's a Chinese piece of furniture, but it's kind of like a day bid, but on wheels. And it's like a reclining seat, but it's made of rattan, and it's got wheels. So it was actually my grandfather's day bed. He would chill in it, but I would pretend that it was like a bus, because it was like a little bed on rattan with wheels. And I'm very fond of always, my granddad would be reclining on this bed watching TV, and I would be lying on his tummy. And then when it's time for bedtime, he would say in Cantonese, the same thing every night. It's time for you to move over to the big bed. And then I would constantly not want to go to the big bed to sleep. I would constantly want to jump back on his bus. And then he would say this phrase, which I still remember today in Cantonese, and it goes Moyao Golea. It means I'm coming over again. And then I would remember playing this game with my grandfather. Wow. Yeah, you're asking really powerful questions, because I'm talking about things I haven't talked about, and I'm like, tearing up, thinking about this memory. But, yeah, that's a childhood memory.

Raphael Harry [00:16:41]:

Thank you for sharing that.

Genevieve [00:16:43]:

Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:16:46]:

I'm like, wow. So the kids loving the belly has been my daughter. She's like cuddly pillow. I use that as my excuse for not losing my stomach.

Genevieve [00:16:59]:

It's a good excuse. Keep it.

Raphael Harry [00:17:02]:

Yeah. Some friends are like, oh, so you what happened? You don't have a flat stomach anymore? I'm like, well, my kid loves it. She's like, oh, I need my cuddly pillow. Bring it. I want to take a nap on. I'm like, okay, all right, come take a nap on my cuddly pillow. So it's just cute hearing this story of how many years ago, and I'm like, hey, it's always been around. Kids love it's. Universal. So what about you, Chris?

Chris Teo [00:17:36]:

I think the one that really left the deepest impression in me is just sitting at the kitchen table and eating the food that my mom has prepared for me growing up, right? No matter what mischief I could have been up to or what Bonsons or how much I've driven her up the wall or been rude or been unkind, she never fails to provide that same plate of rice with a serving of whatever protein and whatever fiber on the table. And it's always warm and it's there regardless whether I have been a good or a not-so-good son. So that, to me, left is still a deep impression, right? Yeah. So that's memorable.

Genevieve [00:18:23]:

His mom's food is very good.

Raphael Harry [00:18:27]:

I would have been surprised if you had said it wasn't good because yeah, someone, a previous guest, I think that was I'm not mistaken. Episode 27 mentioned how when she came into the house and she was born in Nigeria, in Lagos, and her mom was cooking, the aroma was like an aroma of love whenever the mom was cooking. And it felt welcoming. And Chris just took me to that moment, that moment when previous guest Joy Chickledi brought that memory up. So that's one reason why I always love asking that question.

Chris Teo [00:19:12]:

And you can feel the senses, right? You can literally almost just smell it, see it, feel it. Everything just feels so real and still so visceral. It's amazing.

Raphael Harry [00:19:21]:

Yeah. So thank you for the beautiful memories. And, yeah, I always love asking that question because if I have that question again tomorrow, you probably come up with different answers. But it's a question which I love hitting the guest with it right away and just hearing what comes up at that moment and one or two, I wasn't expecting to go that far. I'm like, it's all good. There's no right or wrong answers, but it's beautiful. So, still staying with you back during your with your younger selves, what did you dream of adults, Chris and Jen, becoming career wise?

Genevieve [00:20:13]:

Well, he looks like he's thinking, so I'll take this one first. I think when I was really young, I already knew that I wanted to be a singer. Do you know, I probably did not know how to express it, but I did always have imaginations of myself singing and being on stage. And when I was a teenager, I would do this stupid thing of holding the hairbrush as a microphone when I was by myself in my bedroom, in front of the mirror. And then I just never did it. Never got encouraged to have that as a career. So it was always like just a dream. But I'm only able to say that now because I'm one now. But I think that's what I always wanted to be. And then I would cover that up as I grew older with more practical career choices. And I think at some point I wanted to be an air stewardess because that would help me clock in my traveling mileage I would be able to see the world if I was an air stewardess. At some point I wanted to be a doctor because I thought I would earn a lot of money. I'm just being honest. At one point I thought I would be a lawyer, because this is what your traditional Asian parent, the ones I grew up with at least, always implanted in your head to be. Are you going to be a doctor, a lawyer or an engineer? Yeah, Singapore. It's a very culturally practical society, and unfortunately it's different today. But when I was growing up to be in the arts was something that you did as a hobby. It was something to be feared as something to focus on as your vocation or your work.

Raphael Harry [00:22:08]:

So yeah, that's one similarity to us. Even African parents, Nigerian parents, it's something similar. Especially back in my you know, when I was much younger. You know, I still, you know, I remember the first time there were videotapes. My elder brother, he's like eleven years older than I am, used to record videotapes of videotapes, VHS tapes of the Olympics. So the first time we didn't have power outages, so I played video, I think, 82 Olympics and 86 Olympics, and I was like, oh, this looked like fun. But the sprints caught my attention and all the kids were crazy about sprints. This is when soccer wasn't as big as it is today. And I was like, yeah, I think I want to be a sprinter. And I don't know how. Somebody had me in the family and asked me, I think I was nine, I think I was about nine and said, what do you want to be when you grew up? I said, oh, I want to be a sprinter. I'll run in 200 meters, I'll set a world record and blah, blah, blah. I just kept running my mouth like, oh, okay. I said, maybe a footballer. Well, no, I think I prefer running athletics. And I said, okay. And I went out to play. When I came back, was like a family me. The old family was like, Come here. What did you say you want to be when you grew up? And I just kept running my mouth. Oh, I run 200 meters, maybe 400 meters, but I prefer 200 meters. And it began, one person for the other. Do you know that it's all the people who are dropouts from college that run? And it was just like, blah, blah, blah. People just kept talking and I was like, oh, what's going on here? I thought people were very impressed by me wanting to run and be a champion. Yeah, there was some shouting. They was talking about, Are you dumb? No smart person tries to be an athlete. Oh, really? I did not know that was my impression. Something stayed with me. Anytime was time to participate in sports. I'm thinking, Am I intelligent? Is it that I'm dumb? What message you start having that going in your brain. And then, of course, when soccer players that are making ridiculous amount of money used to get some of those same family people, like, I used to play, why don't you play no more? What about that meeting you had like, almost ten years ago and you sat me down? I don't recall that, but I'm 18 now. I won't play it for like, ten years. So my skill set has regressed. That boy, but a car. Use your friend. I'm like so it was just funny seeing how that changed over time, because some of people started making money, and it's like, okay, now we accept that's not how you just change like that. So even with comics and stuff like that, it was just like it was only one career path, only like the banking engineering law, and you be a lawyer. What's the other one? Banking engineering lawyer. There's one I'm forgetting. But you either went that route or what are you talking about? What is wrong with this kid? That's why I'm glad for that. Younger people today have more choices, more options available, because I saw it in real time. Happen to a lot of family members back then. So what about you, Chris?

Chris Teo [00:26:11]:

Well, I guess different seasons, different things appealed to me as much younger. I always wanted to be a fighter pilot. That was the top garden iron eagle time period. Being stuck in a small cockpit going at speed of sound is always quite an exciting proposition. So that didn't quite work out, obviously, because I ended up wearing spectacles. Then there was a time where I guess as I grew older, then we went through the face of, maybe I'll be a doctor, maybe I'll be a lawyer, maybe an engineer. So that also didn't quite worked out because I messed up school time. And I don't know, if you ask me now, I'm happy doing what I'm doing. Sometimes I wonder whether it'd be a bit fun to be a politician as well. In addition to what I'm doing, I still harbor some ideas of potentially retiring with a part time lecturing opportunity to just teach and share what I've learned over the years or discuss that at the postgraduate or graduate level.

Raphael Harry [00:27:13]:

Yeah, well, we'll come to what you're doing right now. But you know what, to be honest, I think after reading your bio, either one, you'll be good for either one, either as a politician or teaching. Because I know many people, as soon as the other word politicians start, I'm like, Politician is not a bad word. It's when you have bad faith actors in there, then it becomes bad. And the more you allow bad faith actors being in those positions, then we need good people in politics, we need good people doing the job. We need good people in government. But somebody with your background who went rules, literally been through all phases of life. Yeah. That's experience that we need. And we don't really have a lot of people in many way look out the governments around the world. There are other people with your type of CV.

Chris Teo [00:28:17]:

Yeah. And I think diversity matters, right. The ability to hear, understand and appreciate people from all different backgrounds. I mean, let's be honest, the more a person irritates you, or the more we are unable to understand, I think that doesn't review much about the other person. It actually reviews our own biases that we should be open to. So that to me, has always been a good thermometer or a checkpoint in terms of how I should perhaps adjust my perspective rather than expect the other person to adjust my perspective.

Raphael Harry [00:28:50]:

Yeah. Beautiful. So I could continue with your teenage years, but there's a lot I want to cover. So one question before I jump forward. There was something that caught my attention from Chris's Bio, which was distance learning. I remember seeing that phrase when there was a university that is set up in Nigeria. I don't know if that university is still around, but it was specifically for distance learning. And I was like, I don't have any interest in this, I don't care about this. So I never looked into how distance learning worked back then. And this was way before the online education was a theme. So now that we've been through this global pandemic, and I've also participated in online education, I was just curious with you, being someone who's been through distance learning, how does that compare with online education, in your opinion?

Chris Teo [00:30:00]:

I think it's an opportunity to at least get engaged in a subject matter. I think it boils down to the individual, how interested they are in what they're learning. Even if it is distance face to face, if the person is really interested in the topic of the subject, he or she can just engage deeper. I really don't see that much of a difference. It's whether a person is open to engaging, a person is open to asking questions. So what is distance learning? Distance learning basically means night classes. We're not in the university itself. It will be provided by a third party. We still submit the same assignments. You will get mailed to the university, which is in Australia back then. Yeah. Beyond that, honestly, maybe the discussions might be a bit less robust than being on campus, but beyond that, it is still coursework, I think things have shifted now with online learning where even though you're distant, you're still in the same virtual space where you can ask the lecturer question off the cuff. So back then, in the distance learning time, we didn't have that opportunity.

Raphael Harry [00:31:10]:

You mail the walk as you literally write or type or whichever and mail.

Chris Teo [00:31:16]:

It to the university. That's right.

Genevieve [00:31:18]:

Mail. That's right.

Chris Teo [00:31:19]:

Yeah. And this is a bit different. Right. I went through that phase because I was a police officer. And I was trying to get my degree done while I was serving time as a police officer. And to me, when I had assignments, I could do them while I was at the police station when things are not so busy. So assuming I'm at the desk, I'm waiting for someone to come and report a crime. Singapore is very safe, right? No crime doesn't mean low crime, doesn't mean no crime. But most times, sitting there, if I have nothing to do, those are my times that I get to do my assignment, which is a blessing. And it was during that time where I've come to appreciate that actually, life needs to be a bit more colorful because there will be time when I get bored with police work, then I say, you know what, it's time to focus on schoolwork. And when that time? When I bought this school work, then I said, you know what, it's time to focus on police work. So it allows you to pivot, right? And it keeps the mind a bit fresh and engaged. So that was something I come to appreciate in terms of multitasking.

Raphael Harry [00:32:20]:

Okay, I guess now I'm beginning to see why I was never attracted to distance learning. Being in Nigeria then, and being told that you have to I'm pretty sure somebody may have explained to me, and I'm just trying to picture my teenage self being told that, oh, you have to mail your schoolwork. And I'm like mail. I don't trust the postal service. When is it going to arrive? Right now. I have a package that I sent to my nieces and nephew in Nigeria. I sent it in March and paid over $300. It still hasn't got they're telling me that some of it may be damaged. So this is in 2023 and we're still having problems with the postal service. So you can imagine, the first time I learned about distance learning was in the early 2000s. So just imagine me thinking of mailing my schoolwork and I'm like, yeah. Then the professor will be like, yeah, I never received your schoolwork. I won't even be mad at the professor. I was just like, yeah, it never arrived. So I think that probably just caught my heart, like, no, if I can't take it to you directly, no, I'm not trying that.

Genevieve [00:33:38]:

I think distance learning is definitely a good opportunity for those, but I think he would have preferred to go to in-person college if he had the chance to. I think the reason why he did that was because he had to fulfill time.

Raphael Harry [00:33:54]:

I see the advantages of distance. I'm just pointing out that for people in a place where I was, where you have a tricky postal service, it's not trustworthy. If you can't afford the much better, efficient, totally postal service, then it's like, Oops, yeah, trying to sell distance learning to those people, don't be like, what are you trying to do? No. I'll take my chances with raising money to go to campus by myself. So I probably was in that stage of life where when they told me about distance learning, I was like, who the hell was wrong with these people? Now it makes sense why distance learning never took to me. And until I read Chris's BIOS, like, distance learning, I've heard of that before. Wow. So it actually worked somewhere.

Chris Teo [00:34:56]:

The question is, how bad do you want it? Yeah, I feel that whether it's distance learning or learning, whatever, if we want it bad enough, we'll make it work.

Raphael Harry [00:35:06]:

That's true. So, Jen, still with you. You had a passion for music quite early, but it seems like you try to go other routes. When did you decide that music, you're going to stay? This is it. Music is your thing, your calling. When did you decide that you're going to stay with music?

Genevieve [00:35:37]:

Oh, gosh, I didn't decide. I wasn't looking for it. It came to look for me.

Raphael Harry [00:35:43]:

Okay.

Genevieve [00:35:44]:

Yeah. So I grew up, and even into my young adulthood, always trying to be a good girl, a good daughter, and a good, I don't know, citizen. Whatever. You grow up, you don't know about the powerful societal influences that shape you. But I guess it caused me to be a bit thoughtless about my own destiny. It caused me to be thoughtless about my own choices. I just sort of followed the path that I thought I was supposed to follow. Take your exams. Do really well. After you do really well, take these subjects. Do those subjects really well. Graduate with honors. Take this really good job that's offered to you, and just follow that path without really thinking about happiness. I don't know why it was never something that I had space in my mind or identity to think about. But then I went in, so I graduated, and I did really well. That the jobs came. A job in a very prestigious government agency in Singapore came hunting for me. It was the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. And to get a job in that department was like, they only invite the top scholars or top people. And I was like, oh, okay, this is the path. And I remember going for the interview at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Singapore, and it was like a ten day interview, ten rungs of it.

Raphael Harry [00:37:20]:

Oh, wow.

Genevieve [00:37:20]:

And even I felt like I was training to be a spy, because there were some days it was very exciting, actually. There were some days that it was a simulation kind of interview. They would simulate, like, an emergency diplomatic situation. And then you had to see if you could print out, like, a ten page report in that simulation exercise. So I got all the way to the top of this interview process, and it was at the very last one where you got to meet the director, like, the boss of that department. Who is going to manage you? And then they asked me one question. It was like the very last question. It's like, how much do you really want this job? And then after going through ten, they wouldn't have let you go on to the second if you didn't pass the first. So I seemed to have shown myself that I wanted that job. But when that question was asked right at the very last, how much do you really want this? I said, I don't think this work would really speak to me. And I was very insecure at saying that because I was like, letting all this go. But then I couldn't be inauthentic to myself just at that last moment. So I knew that was a deal breaker because I didn't get the job. My best friend, actually, who's in the same graduating class as me, God, got the job instead. But one thing that went through my mind when I said, no, I don't think I really can do this job was the thought that this was a very simple thought that came to me was that if Genevieve, if you take this job, you will no longer have time to be at the piano for 3 hours a day. Because I used to be a pianist at that time, I was a very serious classical pianist. I was also going for piano competitions and things like that. And I was always trying to grow in that area. And that part of my life required a lot of time. And it was just a very simple thought. If you take a strenuous job, you will not have time at the piano. That was it. And that was the time that first spoke to me that music was like a really important thing. It's not just a hobby, it is a joy, but it's more than that. It's something I have to do. As much as I have to eat, I have to drink. Then after that, I became a piano teacher. I was a piano teacher, which I thought was being a musician. But being a music teacher, I realized after that did not mean that I was a musician, right? And it took me a lot of years as a music teacher to realize that I'm quite a slow learner. And during that time too, I had a really difficult time and a very troubled young adulthood because my father went bankrupt at that time, and then my parents divorced at that time. It was quite a crazy time of my life. And I was highly stressed, full of anxiety because of what was going on with my parents. And I was also very sad by what was going on. And eventually that difficult season took ten years. And at the end of that, my father passed away from cancer. After my dad passed away, I just felt like this whole past ten years of difficulty from the bankruptcy, the divorce, all the trauma family trauma. I finally could breathe from that. What have I been doing for these past ten years? Just being so absorbed in my family's troubles. And so I was ready for, like, what's now? What's new in my life? I felt like I've done nothing but go through challenge. And I was married at that time, and I had two young children. I was just suddenly injected into a season of openness into. I'm ready for something new. I'm ready for a new country. I'm ready for a new environment. I'm ready to find myself, whoever that is. And so we moved here to New York City in 2014. And when I moved here, I was just going to settle the family. I was just going to be taking care of my kids, supporting my husband, who was the one who had a job opportunity here, that led us here. And I had no idea what I was going to do. But after one year of settling here, I thought, I cannot keep visiting museums. I cannot go visiting the Statue of Liberty. I need a purpose. And so, you know what? I don't really have anything else to do. I think I'll take singing lessons. So I took singing lessons with this really famous voice coach in New York City who's still the best, one of the top rated today. And I waited six months to get in lessons with him, but I started lessons with him, and then he really helped me to find my voice. And one year after that, he even told me, like, I think you might be good at writing songs. And I said, no. I've never been like that. I can never do because I'll never write a song. But I took his invitation to do so, and I wrote a song, and I never stopped. And up to today, I've written hundreds of songs, published several, published, recorded, created many of them. And today, singing is my purpose. It is my artistry, my creativity. As I say, nothing has changed from that core, which I realize from day one about music. It's not just a hobby. It's not just a passion. It's a primal need. I have to sing. I have to make music. I have to make sound as much as I have to eat or sleep or drink. So that's a long but full answer.

Raphael Harry [00:43:09]:

You jumped ahead into New York, but that's good.

Genevieve [00:43:13]:

Everything's connected.

Raphael Harry [00:43:14]:

Yeah, it's connected. It's connected, but that's beautiful. Wow. That's beautiful. So one last question before we officially arrive in America. Yeah, because I didn't realize that the answer to that question will connect to will include you guys already being married and then your arrival in New York. So how did you guys meet?

Genevieve [00:43:39]:

Which version do you want?

Raphael Harry [00:43:42]:

I don't know. It's my first time getting a version. Okay, wait, let's do this, because sometimes the guy's version might be different from the girl's version.

Chris Teo [00:43:55]:

You pick Rafael?

Genevieve [00:43:57]:

Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:43:57]:

You do all right, let me hear Chris's version first. And we have a judge in the audience, so we have somebody who can judge.

Genevieve [00:44:04]:

Oh, he wasn't there when we met.

Raphael Harry [00:44:06]:

Well, he's acting like he's not hearing, but he's going to be like, I don't know. So he's going to judge.

Chris Teo [00:44:15]:

Well, I was working in the restaurant. We both worked in the restaurant because that was a time when I was quite passionate about cooking. I still am, actually. And I was working as a sous chef in American restaurant called Dan Ryan's Chicago Grill in Singapore. In Singapore. That's right. And, yeah, I was working the stations. Pretty little waitress came in, and I took notice. I think she took notice. I'm not sure whether she took notice. I'm sure she did. Right. Not many good looking Asian cooks around these days. But anyway, sorry. You know what? I take that back. I would just say that I'm probably one of the few. All right. And then, of course, she has a story of her love for music, but I always say that she's not telling you that. Deep down, we kind of also were in band together. I was singing, and I always just always tease her about how maybe that's where the passion for music was, the seed was planted. And that's how we met. We met in a restaurant. I was, in her words, loud and crude and rude, but actually, I was just being noisy and just having fun, being enjoying myself with music and cooking and yeah, a fun lifestyle. That is weird because I was supposedly a full time student at that time, which explains all the horrible grades. But that's how we met, in the restaurant working.

Raphael Harry [00:45:54]:

So being that you were in a restaurant, you couldn't use food to woo Jen?

Genevieve [00:46:06]:

No.

Chris Teo [00:46:07]:

Yeah. It's got to be my good looks. I keep saying no.

Raphael Harry [00:46:11]:

All right.

Chris Teo [00:46:14]:

Yeah. So he's got to be that.

Raphael Harry [00:46:16]:

Okay.

Chris Teo [00:46:16]:

Nothing else.

Raphael Harry [00:46:17]:

So, Jen, what's your passion?

Genevieve [00:46:21]:

I don't think we disagree. I just think that as husband and wife, we remember different details and we amplify different things that mean different things to us. But we did meet in a restaurant. He was a cook, and I was a waitress, but then we didn't really date while we were working at the restaurant. Actually, while we were the restaurant, I became really good friends with another waiter. Really good friends with another waiter. And then this waiter was actually the drummer of his band.

Raphael Harry [00:46:53]:

Oh, yeah, the band, too.

Genevieve [00:46:54]:

Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:46:56]:

Wow. This man.

Genevieve [00:46:58]:

And then so this drummer had told him, like, oh, Genevieve plays keyboards. Maybe you could ask her to join the band. So this drummer and Chris asked me to join their band.

Raphael Harry [00:47:13]:

Wow. So music also play a row.

Genevieve [00:47:15]:

So actually, when we were doing Band Life together, we had a few gigs together, we rehearsed together. I was actually kind of interested in the drummer. It was complicated. He was Muslim, as well. So there was always this in Singapore, if you date a Muslim, you're always thinking like, okay, so if I ever go long term with this guy, I'll eventually have to convert to being Muslim. And it was complicated. So it was always, like, at a weird place, that friendship, relationship, whatever. But eventually the complicated nature of that told me to just let that go. And I was just at this point in my life where I was like, I'm just done. I'm done with dating. I'm done with men. I just want to have a and I told you, I was, like, going through stuff in my family. I was like, I don't want a complicated life with men. And that freed me up, actually. It freed me up to know people, because then you stop being awkward with people of the opposite sex, and you stop being okay, does he like me? And then you have to be careful of what you say. So I became very free as being myself with him. I think that to me, is something I really remember. I was in a really good space to be myself with him, and he was the first person after I had made that decision. And so that enabled us to hang out, and I really didn't think about anything else romantic when we hung out and we spent a lot of time was laughing, talking. I could really enjoy his company because I didn't have to feel awkward. And then one day, everything changed from that comfortable, casual connection because we just went out for a meal. I never thought it was a date, right? It was like I was just hanging out my buddy Chris, and then we go for a meal at a hawker center at East Coast Park, and then we take a nice walk by the beach after that. Me still. This is not romantic. This is not a date. But we end up sitting on quite a romantic spot, actually. Like on a bench, looking at the sea.

Raphael Harry [00:49:21]:

You thought it was a date?

Chris Teo [00:49:23]:

Look at it this way, right? You were by the sea. Seriously, guys, help me out here. Right by the beach. What else could it be?

Raphael Harry [00:49:42]:

I'm neutral here.

Genevieve [00:49:45]:

Anyway, we sat on a bench, and then I just thought we were talking, and then he suddenly had to ask this question, do you like me? And I was like, oh, boy. Oh, no, this changes everything. I thought we were just friends. And why do you have these ask this question. Do you like me? And then I started to get really awkward. That freedom was I started to get fumbling, and he really caught me there. And then I was like, I'm not sure. I probably gave some awkward answer. And then he was very smooth. He recovered himself from the question very quickly by saying this. He was like, oh, no, I didn't mean, like, if you liked me. I meant, do you like noodles? Because in Singapore, we call noodles me E-E-M-E. Like a very famous, popular dish, like fried noodles in a gravy with seafood. It's called hockey. And me, or like a noodle dish.

Raphael Harry [00:50:51]:

That'S really smooth in vinegar.

Genevieve [00:50:52]:

It's called bato me. So I was like, oh, my since then I was like, oh, shoot, now I'm so embarrassed. Now I got like I had to spill over into my emotions and all this. And then I didn't talk to him for two weeks because I was like, this person just embarrassed me. Totally. But then I called him up after that and I was like, you know what? This connection is too precious to lose.

Chris Teo [00:51:17]:

It's me.

Genevieve [00:51:21]:

We really started dating. And then he said he loved me about two weeks after that, and I said, I love you, too.

Chris Teo [00:51:32]:

Two of us at the beach.

Raphael Harry [00:51:37]:

It's real tears. That's beautiful. Now I have to use that line when I get home. Do you like me late?

Chris Teo [00:51:46]:

No.

Raphael Harry [00:51:49]:

Hey, I still got to try. That was really smooth. That was a good comeback there.

Genevieve [00:51:57]:

Oh, my God.

Raphael Harry [00:51:59]:

I learned something new there. That's do you like me? Well, yeah. That's awesome. That was a beautiful story. I love that.

Genevieve [00:52:05]:

And they're not different versions, though.

Raphael Harry [00:52:08]:

Yeah, that has to be one of the best romantic how you met that I've gotten on the podcast. That's me. I'm just going to walk into the house and be like, do you like me? My daughter will interject. Maybe I don't, because now I have a kid now who's like, at that point where she has to troll me all the time.

Genevieve [00:52:33]:

Right?

Raphael Harry [00:52:34]:

Like, that wasn't you I was talking to. Talking to your mama. I can't take that back to you, Chris. Respect you. Respect your game. That was a good game there. So you guys now take the step of moving to New York, and that has to do with now, chris, you've graduated. You're no longer a police officer, right?

Chris Teo [00:53:06]:

Yes.

Raphael Harry [00:53:08]:

And now you've made another career change. But before I won't go that far because I wasn't aware that you were in a band. So what instrument did you play?

Chris Teo [00:53:18]:

I was a singer.

Raphael Harry [00:53:19]:

Oh, I wasn't expecting that. All the surprises. Wait a minute. You are the singer?

Chris Teo [00:53:30]:

Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:53:32]:

And then wow, okay. So do you still sing in the.

Chris Teo [00:53:39]:

Bathroom all the time? When I'm taking a shower.

Raphael Harry [00:53:46]:

This man. Wow, this is amazing. Have you considered writing a book about your life?

Chris Teo [00:53:53]:

I think about it often.

Raphael Harry [00:53:56]:

Stop thinking about it. Start writing. Stop thinking, because there's a lot to write about. Just every day. Just start recording your voice. Just start recording about your recording of voice, not the singing. Just say something. Just one chapter to just talk about one chapter, because, man, you got me to appreciate distance learning. And then now you also sang. So, Jen, what kind of songs was Chris singing?

Genevieve [00:54:26]:

What songs was he singing when we met?

Raphael Harry [00:54:28]:

Yeah.

Genevieve [00:54:31]:

I think they wrote some original songs. Yeah. And then I think we did covers. I don't know. I remember very often at several gigs, I think we played, like, Lenny Kravitz, Beatles. We always did Mustang Sally. I don't know why, but yeah, those kinds of stuff. Did they have long hair longer than this? Yes, a little bit longer, because I.

Raphael Harry [00:55:05]:

Was just picturing him as a rock star.

Chris Teo [00:55:09]:

I still am.

Raphael Harry [00:55:10]:

No, I look like one now, sitting.

Chris Teo [00:55:14]:

In this podcast studio.

Raphael Harry [00:55:15]:

That's why you're in the middle. That's why you got the center of us. You guys rock, man. You guys rock. All right, let's come to America. So why did you decide to accept a job? Why New York City? What made you take a chance moving to United States, New York City, and not somewhere like London, not somewhere like Frankfurt or La. What made New York City your choice?

Chris Teo [00:55:53]:

It was always either New York or London. And they both appealed to me because they were massive financial hubs. And I just love the idea of using money to make more money and using money to make more money, right. And how investments flow, funds flow, and it creates opportunities in the right hands. He creates more jobs, he creates more economic growth, progress and opportunities for all. And that's always appealed to me. And I always thought that dealing with the media here is very different from dealing with the media in different countries. So I said, yeah, let's do it. Let's move to New York. Because it's Wall Street, right? This is where commerce, a good part of commerce, spins. And I don't think we can find any deeper capital markets than in the US. And when the bank had an opening, I said, let's do it. They couldn't think twice. But it's funny, right? But if I were to ask that question of myself a few years back in the police, it was always London. Yeah. But I guess as life we had it, new York became a more viable opportunity.

Raphael Harry [00:57:10]:

All right, so you both arrive, and you don't just arrive with yourselves, you bring your kids with you. So what was the first New York moment that you guys had after moving to New York?

Genevieve [00:57:25]:

Oh, my gosh. Do you have one or should I go?

Chris Teo [00:57:29]:

I think it's quite funny. Obviously, we're jet lagged because the time zone is 12 hours difference. So for me, the New York moment, which we didn't fully appreciate, was living in a service not service, living in an apartment where we could just see the Empire State Building right outside our window, and every evening the colors would change. We didn't realize how significant or how prime that real estate was, to be honest, back then coming. We just thought of it as like, oh, okay, this is a temporary one month thing. Yeah. But I think that was quite a New York experience eating at the restaurant where Anthony Bourdain used to work in the Hell was an absolute experience because having read the book, they just felt like the madness, the craziness. This is where it's at. Yeah. So that for me, was quite quintessential, at least on the first couple of days.

Genevieve [00:58:26]:

I think the New York moment for me is the same, but once again, I had a different I amplified different speaking words about it. So it was like maybe we were jet lagged, we were tired. I was emotionally overwhelmed at having left family, left the home. And this was a new change. And I was in that one month temporary hotel apartment that we were putting up at, and the windows looked out at, as he said, the Empire State Building. And it was 08:00 p.m., and it was all dark, and the Empire State Building was all lit up and was so beautiful. But I just thought, I'm here in this room, I'm not out there. And there were more reasons that because our kids were young, so they had to go to bed early. And actually that defined my life, actually, for many years, even though I lived here, I'm, like, in such an exciting city. But number one, I'm a full time mother. I couldn't go out as much, like, at night time to enjoy the nightlife. And number two, I had no friends. You don't go out. And it made me miss my friends and my family. And this is the New York for me, right? This is the New York that's been so good to me, that gives me the space to grow away from my familiar environment, away from my family, but it's also that which I lack. New York gives me the space to be away, but New York is also what prevents me from having what I really need. Right? So that scene of me sitting at the window, looking at the Empire State Building, the New York that many people come to experience, I actually don't really get to experience much. I'm always looking at it from my home window. Does that make sense?

Raphael Harry [01:00:25]:

It does. Yeah, it does. It makes a lot of sense. As an adult, you have kids, so the responsibility is different and it changes. I think a lot of us like, when I arrived in New York, I was by myself, so I wasn't thinking about a lot of things so someone could call me and say, hey, come with me in the city. Let's hang out, or, Come with me in Queens, let's hang out. Okay, when? Like, one hour's time. I'm tired, but all right. I just rinse my face and jump, put on clothes, and I'm out. Now you hit me up like, hey, I'm visiting New York. I'm like you're here today. Why don't you give me, like, one month's notice? Last time I was here, like, seven, eight years ago, I said, yeah, that was a long time, but what do you want me to do? I thought we can just hang out for drinks. You want me to come out in one hour's time? Not happening. Well, it was nice to hear that you're in town. See you. Next time you come around, give me a heads up, like, at least two weeks notice. I can move around. It's not the same. Yeah, it's not the same anymore. So I can imagine someone brand new, arriving kids, and, yeah, it's not the same experience for you. And even with me being by myself, I still felt that loneliness a lot too. Because there were times when it was just me at home and there were things I could have done, but I didn't know where to look, how to look, and it would take me time, for I realized, oh, I could have done this, I could have done that. But in hindsight, that's when I started realizing this is what I could have or should have done. So then you're now telling someone with a family, oh, get yourself out there. You have to be realistic about how you throw such advice. What's my phone doing? My phone's. Google trying to numb through my phone away. Google's listening to too much stuff. Hopefully it's not calling somebody. Yeah, I relate to that a lot. So still sticking to something like you brought up Jen, and to you, Chris. So how have you navigated parenting since you arrived in New York? Because part of your time in New York also included having to parent through a pandemic. So how have you dealt with parenting? Raising kids? You brought your kids here from Singapore, and you had to acclimatize to New York. So you both are acclimatizing to New York, America, and then also raising your kids in the environment, and then you get to deal with a pandemic too.

Genevieve [01:03:29]:

Oh, boy. This is a big question.

Chris Teo [01:03:32]:

I think parenting by far is the toughest ultra marathon I've ever done, and it never ends, right?

Raphael Harry [01:03:39]:

Yes.

Chris Teo [01:03:43]:

And I don't know, I guess the experiences for both of them are quite different. So just for context, my oldest son, or our oldest son now is 17. He's finishing up high school. Our youngest boy is 13. Journeying with both of them have been wonderful experience. I mean, in hindsight, I wouldn't have changed it for anything moving here. But that said, America, or at least in this case, New York, does offer a very different experience for them growing up. And there are certain experiences that relate to them and they can connect with we can't really understand because we didn't grow up here. So when they share such experiences, it can either be very relatable or it could be very alienating. Right. I guess ultimately, for me, it's just trying to be patient, and maybe he just needs a space to speak. So, I mean, Case, just list out one example.

Raphael Harry [01:04:46]:

Right?

Chris Teo [01:04:46]:

I mean, we had dinner maybe a couple of nights back. And then the conversation landed to a space on whether or not there should be free health care for all. To me, it's just like, okay, it's been a long day at work. I really don't want to talk about this, to be honest, because you can take it down. Politics, which, again, I don't want to talk about it, can take me down into the moral bit, which I'm like, oh, it's a bit heavy, my brain is dead. I'm not sure whether I would be the best advisor on this topic. It's just interesting, right. Their experience growing up and as a teenager, sometimes you want to share a perspective which you feel is right, but you don't really see everything. I mean, at different age, we see different parts, we never see the full picture. So I also am mindful that I can either, a agree fully, b throw in some questions and say, maybe you should consider this this, but yet at the same time be mindful. Where I throw in question doesn't mean that I don't see where you're coming from. So parenting has, as an experience, has been very tricky and to navigate, to be honest, these days, because of our values as a family and what they have been experiencing within the society, which we weren't born here, so we're not as familiar with how things are said or done.

Genevieve [01:06:09]:

Yeah. I'm just going to say your question is how do you deal? I don't know how to deal with it every day. I'm still learning. I think the thing about having children, especially with the first born, is that every experience of the firstborn is also my first experience. He was the child that gave me the experience of putting the first diaper, the first step. And then now I'm having the first 17. You know, like, no matter what goes.

Raphael Harry [01:06:38]:

Out, that's a good way of looking at it.

Genevieve [01:06:40]:

Yeah.

Raphael Harry [01:06:41]:

I will adopt that mindset. I needed that.

Genevieve [01:06:45]:

Yeah. And I'm not saying this to discourage anyone from being a parent. It's a rich journey. You are cultivating, you are influencing, you are taking care of another life. And the power that one has as a parent to shape a child is far more than we know. Also, I think a lot of things that a child absorbs from the parent, it cannot be taught, it can only be caught. And so you're also like a human being. You're not perfect all the time. And as a parent, you get tired. And we need grace ourselves every day. And sometimes they will catch that. They catch your stress, they catch your anxiety, they catch your fear. I also try to be encouraged by seeing that a lot of things that actually I'm sowing into my child's life, the words I give, the wisdom, the sharings, the advice at the moment, they might not seem that they want it or they agree with it, but I'm. Always hopeful that the seeds I sow today, like seeds in gardening, only yield harvest many, many years from now. So that is my hope. But it's not easy to do, especially as people who like Chris says, I think I find it very difficult too. I didn't grow up here. I didn't make friends here. My child is going through having school here, growing up here, unfortunately growing through the political situation here as well. And it's a highly politicized growing up experience than I ever experienced. That is my biggest disconnection that I have to learn how to connect with him on, because I think school, life and just being friends, they really often talk about a lot of things that happen in the political environment. And I I never really know how to deal with that because I didn't grow up with all this. So sometimes all I am able to do is just listen and listen and try to respond, respond always with grace that I want my children to, as I said, catch. I want them to catch whatever grace I have the strength to evoke. And yeah, I don't have a strong, clear answer. The only answer, I don't know how to deal with it. I'm also just learning and dealing with grace, but I also know that I just love them so much and just hope that I might not understand how my love for them translates in daily actions. But I just know that the power of love is something that's transcendent. It's not of me, it's transcendent of me. And so as long as I'm a vessel for that, as long as I'm a vessel for love and grace, I myself have to believe in love and grace, then hopefully that causes me to speak, to have actions that sow seeds into their lives now, which I cannot connect with sometimes, but just hope that that transcendent power of love and grace of which I'm, a vessel, will be caught. It's invisible, right? And you have no control over it. So you just have to surrender to that transcendent power of love and grace and just be very encouraged by that every day.

Raphael Harry [01:10:43]:

The bond is already there, and even though it's invisible, but it's there as far as, like you said, grace, you're extending that grace and you're listening. And they know that you always listen as far as you are willing to be an ear. I think that's a great starting point because someone once told me that if the kids notice that you don't listen to them, there's someone else who always listen. They will find someone who listen. And that's what we don't want to happen. They go, stop looking for someone who will listen because we know, we understand how that can lead to something that we don't want to happen.

Genevieve [01:11:29]:

That's right.

Raphael Harry [01:11:30]:

So I appreciate you guys sharing that. So where do I go? Yes, that's asked about your New York moment when you arrived but I haven't asked about. How about your favorite New York moment so far since you've been in New York, Chris?

Chris Teo [01:11:49]:

There's so many.

Raphael Harry [01:11:50]:

Oh, yeah, that's why I had to throw that question.

Chris Teo [01:11:53]:

There's so many. And I think the beauty of it is there are moments that are seemingly ordinary. Right. I used to run quite a lot. Running across the Brooklyn Bridge on the way from home to work when the sun is rising is quite magical, actually. When the sun rises and it just glistens off the East River. I don't know, it's just amazing. The whole place just feels like there's a huge orange hue that covers the environment, and you see the same folks whether they're trying to catch a fish, and then you just turn one corner and then you see a cherry blossom tree in full bloom.

Raphael Harry [01:12:39]:

Wait, did that inspire Jen's Brooklyn Bridge song?

Genevieve [01:12:44]:

Yeah, because we used to live in Dumbo for a short period of time, we could see the Brooklyn Bridge. I did think it was very beautiful. So, yes, I did write a romanticized song.

Raphael Harry [01:12:55]:

Beautiful song.

Genevieve [01:12:56]:

Thank you for listening to it. I didn't realize I listened to a.

Raphael Harry [01:12:59]:

Couple of your songs.

Chris Teo [01:13:02]:

Yeah, those runs were just magical, right? I run quite a lot, and even coming back, seeing the sun set is just amazing. I can't pin a dollar value to it or it can't be bought.

Raphael Harry [01:13:20]:

Right.

Chris Teo [01:13:20]:

Just like who you're with, what you felt like for the day, and yeah, I'll never forget it for the rest of my life.

Raphael Harry [01:13:31]:

The moments like that, they're indescribable. There's no amount that you can place on that. You're just one with nature at that moment, and you just love it. You just love it. So. How about you, Jen?

Genevieve [01:13:45]:

I think most of my favorite New York moments have to do with my artistry. I'm a voice teacher, but I myself go for voice lessons still with my mentor and my coach. I still study singing and acting, and I go every Tuesday, and it's like on the Upper West Side in a really old brownstone. And it's always a quintessential moment for me, walking into this very old building with very like the stairs, like, that you go up are like, crooked. You always feel like you're falling off. It's super old and it's rickety and it's creaking, and then you go all the way, and I sit on that bench waiting for my lesson to start. And then there's usually another student inside before me, and that person is just singing. And sometimes it's opera, sometimes it's a rock student, sometimes it's a Peruvian pop singer. Every time when I'm sitting outside that bench waiting for like ten minutes, I listen to how good the singer is, and then I myself go in and sing. And this experience for me has become like, there's always good music, there's always creativity, there is always someone being encouraged to have a voice, and then you hear so many things. You hear opera, Peruvian pop, jazz. So that diversity of a soundscape is a very favorite New York moment for me. Another one is the New York establishments that I've performed at sometimes can be the crummiest places. I performed a long time ago at the bitter end. Janice Joplin, Bob Marley, even Lady Gaga, before she became Lady Gaga, performed there. And before the first time I went, I was like, oh, this is a New York establishment. But you go there, and then the piano that you end up plonking on is like, it's so bad. It's pre war. It's pre war as well. And the bathrooms smell, and you can smell them as you're performing, but you're like, I'm in a New York establishment. It's always like this mixture of Are you kidding me? And mixed with some wonder and awe. It's like, wow, this is a New York establishment. Okay. Right? So yeah. The broken but beautiful does that make sense?

Raphael Harry [01:16:16]:

Broken, but beautiful. That's it right there.

Chris Teo [01:16:19]:

It's like the Subway Red Experience, right?

Raphael Harry [01:16:21]:

Hey, I love my Subways. So I think I will stay with music for a little bit. So on this podcast, we consider everyone who comes on a dancer, and if you claim you don't dance, we'll stop recording and we'll kick you out. Kick you out of the studio right now. But with both of you, both of you can't deny that. You can't even claim to say you don't dance. You can't deny it. So we need you to name to give us three artists that can keep you dancing for at least an hour. Now, there's a caveat. You can't name the most popular artist. You can name the hottest artist right now. You can give us somebody from Singapore. All three can be from Singapore if you want to. I don't think I have any Singaporean artists on my playlist. So that's the one where I get artists from all over the world when people start giving me artists, so my playlist keeps getting larger and larger. At least three artists that can keep you dancing for an hour. Who goes first?

Chris Teo [01:17:43]:

An hour is a long time.

Raphael Harry [01:17:46]:

I faith in you. You're a rock star, so I know you can do it.

Chris Teo [01:17:51]:

I think Jamila Choir has got to be up there.

Raphael Harry [01:17:54]:

Jamil Choir. You're the first person mentioned that Jamaica Choir, he was big in the 90s. Yes, that's right. Is he still alive? Does he still sing?

Chris Teo [01:18:08]:

Yeah, I'm sure he does. Okay. I'm sure he does.

Raphael Harry [01:18:11]:

I don't think I've had anything from him.

Chris Teo [01:18:15]:

I think Chemical Brothers should. We still there, right? I mean, you think about dance music, right?

Raphael Harry [01:18:26]:

Okay.

Chris Teo [01:18:27]:

But I think if we go a bit folk, I guess. Yeah. The luminous would be something that will keep me moving for quite a while.

Raphael Harry [01:18:38]:

Are they from Singapore? No.

Chris Teo [01:18:40]:

Are you looking for Singapore?

Raphael Harry [01:18:42]:

You got to give me something. Give me one from singapore at least. I don't want somebody writing in from Singapore. Like, I don't think they're from Singapore. They mentioned nobody. I'll give you the emails. Go after them. They got to be at least one that can make Chris dance. Come on. There has to be there used to.

Chris Teo [01:19:12]:

Be a DJ by the name of Andrew Chow who used to spin at the club called Zook. He can keep me dancing for at least 3 hours the whole night.

Genevieve [01:19:20]:

That's the name of the club.

Chris Teo [01:19:21]:

Yeah.

Raphael Harry [01:19:23]:

Zook.

Chris Teo [01:19:23]:

Yeah. Ze O-U-K zook.

Raphael Harry [01:19:26]:

Music from West Africa.

Chris Teo [01:19:28]:

Awesome.

Raphael Harry [01:19:29]:

That's why I was fascinated by that name, andrew Chow.

Chris Teo [01:19:34]:

Yeah. Okay, so he was good.

Raphael Harry [01:19:37]:

So what about you, Jen? So I know you've been trusting. You're the musician now, and who keeps the musician dancing?

Genevieve [01:19:47]:

Oh, boy. I mean, last night, Ezra and I were we had we had the pleasure of each other's company at home, and he was playing like a Stevie Wonder playlist. I mean, I know you said no famous people, but come on. Can I just mention, the great TV.

Raphael Harry [01:20:05]:

Wonder is in the studio right now. Ezra is present. So we'll let Stevie Wonder in.

Genevieve [01:20:15]:

That playlist went on for a great choice. 2 hours. And seriously, if you want to talk about dance, every time we walked, we were in the kitchen. He would like, lift his shoulders like that, or I would feel like, what's.

Raphael Harry [01:20:29]:

Your favorite Stevie Wonder song?

Genevieve [01:20:32]:

I don't really have one.

Raphael Harry [01:20:34]:

All right. That's still a good accept. It's a good answer because he has a lot of songs, but I'm surprised. Young, young ladakh. You love Steve Wanda. That's impressive. That's good taste right there.

Genevieve [01:20:46]:

Yeah. Right now in this season, I've been really intensively studying acting in singing, so I've been listening to a lot of great singers who have great acting. I made a playlist myself called Great Acting and Singing. And one artist I've been listening a lot to is Ben Platt. I think he's a great actor. Yeah. He was on yeah. Dear Evan Hansen. I'm actually learning a song from that musical right now, and it's not like dance music, but you got to dance in your heart. Just hearing someone's storytelling, so dramatized. And he's also a singer songwriter, so yeah, some of his songs you can move along, too.

Raphael Harry [01:21:40]:

Okay.

Genevieve [01:21:41]:

Yeah. And now I'm obliged to give someone from Singapore get some love home. I do love my home. Right. But I've also been away for so long, so I'm going to just say this because I mean it. So last year I had a performance in Singapore at a very cool, very premier jazz lounge. I don't sing and write jazz, but this jazz club let me perform my original songs there. And I got to work with a drummer that they recommended me to work with, and his name is Ben benjamin Lowe. But don't take that name down. Hang on. But Benjamin Lowe has a jazz band. And he was a great drummer. I loved working with him. And he's got a band that I cannot remember now, so I will have to send that to you. I promise I will.

Raphael Harry [01:22:34]:

All right.

Genevieve [01:22:35]:

But, yeah, his band is a great it's instrumental, it's jazz, but it's like so it's a blend of acid jazz and very intelligent jazz. But even though it's so intelligent, it's not arvan garde. You really connect with it. So I would say you can move to that. So that's Singaporean. So I will send you the name of that bet. I got so lost dancing to the music that I forgot the name.

Raphael Harry [01:23:05]:

That's me sometimes. There's so many songs from all over the world that I got, and I'm like, I can't tell you who the artist is. Hold on. I mean, that's right, Shazam. Yeah, I have to check. Okay. Yeah, that's how I get the artist. But thank you for that.

Genevieve [01:23:19]:

Thank you.

Raphael Harry [01:23:21]:

That's music. Music is global. It's universal. How do you come up with titles for your songs and how do you find inspirations?

Genevieve [01:23:33]:

The inspiration is easy. I just write what I live. And writing is not really a big effort. It's concession. That's a big effort that involves craft and skill. But writing for me is just, if I can say this, spitting out, regurgitating out what my lived experiences are. The craft and the skill of communication comes from translating this lived experience, which is in pictures and imaginations, in lived realities and emotional responses, into words and into concession. Because the whole point of a song is that you want to capture a big moment in four words. That's why the Beatles are, like, so awesome. Let it be, let it be, let it be. I always quote that example because you want to. That's what I really enjoy about songwriting, the concession. And every time after I write a song, I write about lift experience. It gives me clarity about what happened in my life. And therefore sometimes, and very often, it gives me a redemptive answer, which is why songwriting is so healing for me, because it clarifies for me what I lived, and I was like, what happened? It's a means of processing. So the inspiration is very simple. It's just I just have a need to say something. And many times in real life, you don't often find people who are really that interested in hearing about what goes on with your heart. And anyway, you're too confused yourself to bother someone else with you pouring out everything, so it's so relieving to pour it out into a song that you can write. So that's inspiration. Like I said, singing and song inspiration is a great word, but it's a primal need. I need to do it as much as I need to eat and sleep. As for the how do I come up my song titles, it's easy.

Raphael Harry [01:25:40]:

If.

Genevieve [01:25:41]:

You have a song and it's about your own lived experience. This is what it's about. So I'll just say what's about I have not been shy to just have super long. I think my song the longest song title I've ever had was this Is What Love Was Supposed to Be. That's what the song is about, me trying to process this is what love was supposed to be. But it didn't turn out to be that way. Right. And then I have other short titles. Like, I have one called Run Your Race because the song is really about running your race. It's about not caring what other people think, taking the high road. If you keep looking to the left and the right, you are going to lose your race because you're more concerned about what other people are doing than what you need to do to stay on your path. So run your race. So my song titles just really tend to be like just saying it as it is.

Raphael Harry [01:26:37]:

Wow, that's beautiful. Thank you for that again. You're welcome. Wow. I need to start wrapping up, but one thing I need to know, when are we going to get Chris back on the mic singing? There any plans for that?

Chris Teo [01:26:54]:

Not yet. I can give you a good speech, though.

Raphael Harry [01:26:58]:

No. Now you give speeches?

Chris Teo [01:27:02]:

Yeah, I'm changing. Right? You asked me to be a politician.

Raphael Harry [01:27:04]:

No.

Chris Teo [01:27:08]:

So I'm just going with your flow.

Raphael Harry [01:27:10]:

All right, that's true. But I just want to hear you singing, too. I mean, that works, too. I mean, you give a speech and then you sing a song or can sing the speech, sing the speech, too. I mean, the crowd going to love that, man. I really appreciate you guys, man. Thank you. Thank you for coming.

Chris Teo [01:27:34]:

Thanks for having me.

Genevieve [01:27:34]:

Thank you. We appreciate you, podcast master.

Raphael Harry [01:27:38]:

Oh, man. Thank you. So, final question. What would you like to leave the audience with? Oh, wait, wait, I forgot to ask one question. Try and jump to the final question. I didn't ever ask you guys about food. Since we have a chef here, I got to ask you guys your go to New York cuisine, favorite cuisine to eat in New York. What's that, boy?

Chris Teo [01:28:03]:

Bagels.

Raphael Harry [01:28:05]:

Bagels?

Chris Teo [01:28:05]:

Bagels with whitefish.

Raphael Harry [01:28:07]:

Whoa. Bagels with whitefish. Yeah. Josh loves that.

Chris Teo [01:28:12]:

Come on, man. Do you guys been a bagel hole? There we go. Seven Avenue.

Raphael Harry [01:28:19]:

Okay.

Chris Teo [01:28:19]:

Boom.

Raphael Harry [01:28:20]:

Oh, yeah.

Genevieve [01:28:22]:

New York establishment.

Chris Teo [01:28:24]:

Yeah.

Raphael Harry [01:28:25]:

Okay. Yeah. Well, I haven't been there personally, but I've eaten their bagel, put it that way.

Chris Teo [01:28:30]:

Good stuff.

Raphael Harry [01:28:30]:

Yeah. So what about you, Jen?

Genevieve [01:28:33]:

Oh, man, this is, like, really tough because I just eat I mean, what you feel like eating is different every day. I love asking tough questions, so I think Vietnamese food is here. I'm a Singapore girl, okay? Which means I'm an Asian girl, which means I have a Southeast Asian don't.

Raphael Harry [01:28:49]:

Worry, you won't be judged.

Genevieve [01:28:51]:

Yeah, when I need comfort, which is all the time in food, I would always crave for my Asian flavors. So I love Vietnamese food here. In fact, when I'm alone and I want to eat by myself, it would be digging into a bowl of hot fur. Yeah. And I'll be slurping that up by myself. I think Thai food here is also really good. See, I'm just going to say all.

Raphael Harry [01:29:23]:

The Asian one choices right there. Good choices. She knows how food I mean, I.

Genevieve [01:29:29]:

Have to say New York pizza is really good.

Raphael Harry [01:29:31]:

I know.

Genevieve [01:29:31]:

It's like really it's not a big deal to talk about pizza because people.

Raphael Harry [01:29:35]:

Like, we don't do that in this podcast. It's also good.

Genevieve [01:29:38]:

But I think the Italians will have to forgive me. I think New York pizza is very good. I've had some really good Italian pizza in Italy, but I'm not going to say New York pizza is better than that, but I'm going to say it can be just as good.

Raphael Harry [01:29:57]:

If any Italian is pissed off, you can buy my merch and set it on fire, that's fine. But yeah, New York pizza number one. They know. All right, so final question. What would you like to leave the audience with your freestyle moment? The ball is in your court. Who go first?

Chris Teo [01:30:22]:

For me, if there was one message that I could pin on the billboard, it would be life moves in seasons. What's right for the individual now or wrong for the individual now may not fit for the individual now. Things might change in the next season. So be open continuously. So seeds today for the next season and enjoy it today for what it has.

Raphael Harry [01:30:51]:

See? He's ready for office.

Genevieve [01:30:56]:

All right, Jen, what do I want to leave the audience with? I just want to leave them hopefully with encouragement. I think, like in any complex city, I think there are a lot of people here who generally are happy, but I also see and meet a lot of people who have it really hard. It's a great city to live in, but it's also a challenging city to live in. I'm not sure if you know this, but we're actually moving from this. I think there's a fitting time to say we're moving from New York City next month to go home to Singapore.

Raphael Harry [01:31:42]:

I'll get you guys after.

Genevieve [01:31:46]:

Distance podcast.

Raphael Harry [01:31:48]:

We'll do a distance recording podcast.

Genevieve [01:31:50]:

But I think a lot of people in the silly need encouragement and I want to encourage that. There are a lot of things right now that people want to say but they're not sure how to say it because it's a confusing time. And I think a lot of people, they don't know this, but they've lost a sense of what truth is, lost a sense of what's right, what's wrong. What's best for me, what's best for my family is it to do what society is flowing towards. And I just want to encourage people who are having a hard time in this confusion. Remember, one of the core values of this society was that you are free. You're free and you are free to think. You're free to question, and you're free to say what's from your heart. And I hope that encourages people. Yeah, be confused.

Raphael Harry [01:33:05]:

Thank you again. Please let the audience know how they can get in touch with you if they want to connect. So plug yourselves in.

Genevieve [01:33:16]:

I don't know. What do people do? They usually give their emails up to you.

Raphael Harry [01:33:20]:

What? Are you comfortable?

Genevieve [01:33:21]:

Oh, yeah.

Chris Teo [01:33:22]:

I'll give you an email address. Check out the Show Notes for more information.

Raphael Harry [01:33:25]:

Yeah, I'll put stuff in the show notes.

Genevieve [01:33:29]:

I have a website. I'm also on Spotify, and you can look for my details there as well. But my website is just www.genevievetomusic.com.

Raphael Harry [01:33:41]:

All right. And everything will be in the Show Notes. And yes, thank you all for listening in. Don't forget to give us five stars. Appreciate the love support. Join us on Patreon for more bonus content. And yes, see you at the next episode. See you next week. Thank you. Thanks for listening to White Label American. If you enjoyed the show, please give a five-star review on your favorite podcast app. You can follow the show on all social media platforms. Visit the White Label American website for links, for donations, episodes, feedback, guests, match, and newsletter. Don't forget to download the free White Label American app on the Google Play store and Apple. Coming soon. Thank you for the privilege of your company.