Ep 172 : From Igbo Culture to AI: An Artistic Perspective ft Grace Nkem

Raphael Harry [00:00:00]:
Welcome to White Label American Podcast. This is a podcast that brings you bold in-depth interviews with interesting people that are mostly immigrants taking down artificial walls one story at a time. This is a podcast that empowers immigrants to share their stories and listen to those of others. Thank you for joining us. Welcome to White Label American Podcast. Thank you all for joining us today. I'm honored to have a guest who has been on the podcast, before. And if you weren't aware, well, check out episodes 166 and 167.

Raphael Harry [00:00:54]:
And you'll find out who our esteemed guest is. Her name is Grayson Kim and, she represents the 4th city from Russia to be on the podcast. We've had Kaluga is the the city. I couldn't re recall

Grace Nkem [00:01:12]:
Uh-huh.

Raphael Harry [00:01:12]:
The last time. Yeah. That's right.

Grace Nkem [00:01:14]:
Hello, everyone.

Raphael Harry [00:01:15]:
Yeah. The first person was, to be born in Russia to be on the podcast. It's from that's the cosmonaut, capital of Russia.

Grace Nkem [00:01:24]:
Uh-huh.

Raphael Harry [00:01:24]:
Probably even a world because they've they've been in cosmo, cosmology for a long, long time. But, yeah, Kaluga. And we've had Saint Petersburg, but not someone born there, his grandparents, but it led to the change of their names before they migrated to Argentina. And then we've had someone born in Moscow and yourself.

Grace Nkem [00:01:44]:
And I'm born in Tivir.

Raphael Harry [00:01:45]:
Tivir.

Grace Nkem [00:01:46]:
Tivir.

Raphael Harry [00:01:57]:
AI, inspirations, projects, and more fun stuff. But who is Grayson Kemp? She's a Nigerian Russian painter from TV. Right? Mhmm. Who studied art history at Columbia University and now lives and works in New York City. In her works, she grapples with the ills of social allen allenation, mass digitalization digital wait.

Grace Nkem [00:02:22]:
Hold on. Digitalization salad. I know.

Raphael Harry [00:02:24]:
And globalize globalism. Guess what? I this is my first recording of 2024 in the studio. So, a little bit rusty, but, I just need to pour some human motor oil in my system. That's all. I know some vegetarian is screaming somewhere, but it's all good. Just donate to my podcast. Alright? So, I've seen how it works in person, and it's awesome. It's amazing.

Raphael Harry [00:02:48]:
I recommend y'all go buy it, you know, support, spend bring out that money. If you know, don't don't keep it to yourself. Don't spend your sugar babies and sugar that is, You know, spend spend it on Grace and Kim's artwork. It'll make your house look awesome. So, Grace, how are you doing today? Welcome to the show.

Grace Nkem [00:03:06]:
I'm good. I'm great. Had a nice walk over here, drinking my coffee.

Raphael Harry [00:03:10]:
Hey.

Grace Nkem [00:03:12]:
Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:03:12]:
And thanks thanks for bringing your friend who's here to support us.

Grace Nkem [00:03:16]:
My friend is here.

Raphael Harry [00:03:17]:
No. We're there. We have to acknowledge you. A lot of people listening can't see you, but, you know, we we love giving shout out to everyone.

Grace Nkem [00:03:24]:
She's French.

Raphael Harry [00:03:25]:
Oh, you're French.

Grace Nkem [00:03:26]:
About the United Nations in this room.

Raphael Harry [00:03:27]:
Oh, that's right. Okay. What what part of France are you from?

Grace Nkem [00:03:31]:
I'm

Raphael Harry [00:03:31]:
from France.

Grace Nkem [00:03:32]:
My parents

Raphael Harry [00:03:33]:
are French. Okay. Awesome. Alright. We love everybody here. We we have 1 or 2 listeners in France, so we need as many more as possible. So, that's your assignment now to get us at least 10 more listeners. I know you didn't sign up for that, but that's it.

Raphael Harry [00:03:48]:
So, with that being said, do you let let's go back to the very beginning. I know you told us the meaning of your names last time you were here. Mhmm. Do you have anything new to add to the meaning of your names?

Grace Nkem [00:04:03]:
No. Grace. Grace. You know? Ijeoma, good journey in life. Peter. Peter. Like, I guess what could you say about Peter? The, very Catholic, Peter the Rock? I guess it means rock.

Raphael Harry [00:04:17]:
Oh, you didn't mention Peter the last time.

Grace Nkem [00:04:19]:
Grace, you joined with Peter and Cam, and Cam being, like, mine or my own. Yeah. It's quite a name.

Raphael Harry [00:04:25]:
That's excellent names. I wasn't, aware that your name is also Peter. Yeah. Yeah. My dad's name,

Grace Nkem [00:04:31]:
Ijoma Peter like, male Peter is my middle name. Ijoma Peter.

Raphael Harry [00:04:35]:
Oh, so, like, the the p e t e r. Mhmm. Oh, okay. Because I was thinking of, p I o t r.

Grace Nkem [00:04:43]:
Oh, Piotr.

Raphael Harry [00:04:44]:
Yeah. That's that. Yeah. That's where my mind went.

Grace Nkem [00:04:46]:
Not the not the Russian version.

Raphael Harry [00:04:47]:
Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:04:48]:
English version.

Raphael Harry [00:04:49]:
English version. Okay. That was interesting. Interesting. Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:04:53]:
I got no Russian names, actually. Yeah. No. But if I was a boy, my mom said she would have named me Max Maxim.

Raphael Harry [00:04:59]:
Maxim.

Grace Nkem [00:05:00]:
Mhmm.

Raphael Harry [00:05:00]:
As in m a x I m? Mhmm. Oh, that's Russian?

Grace Nkem [00:05:05]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:05:06]:
Oh, well, I'm I'm checking my database quickly and

Grace Nkem [00:05:12]:
oh, I don't

Raphael Harry [00:05:14]:
quite recall him Maxim because soccer is where I usually go to. That's where I get lots of names from.

Grace Nkem [00:05:20]:
Oh, yeah. There was a Russian guy at my high school named Max Oh. I don't think I ever told him that I would have been a too, but yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:05:30]:
He would have said the canola There

Grace Nkem [00:05:31]:
would have been 2 Russian guys at my high school named Maxim.

Raphael Harry [00:05:35]:
What if he was, like, a Highlander and said there can only be 1, Maxim? You guys are

Grace Nkem [00:05:40]:
That's the fight. That's the fight I would have won. I know that

Raphael Harry [00:05:47]:
for sure. So last time you were here, you also shared your favorite childhood memory. But at this moment, what is your favorite childhood memory?

Grace Nkem [00:05:57]:
What was my favorite childhood memory?

Raphael Harry [00:05:58]:
I will tell you so that Oh, rats. Transparency. You say the exact same thing.

Grace Nkem [00:06:04]:
Oh, it was probably National History Museum rock collection. That was probably what it was.

Raphael Harry [00:06:09]:
Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:06:09]:
So that's still that's still up there. I still have all my rocks. I brought them with me last or no. My mom visited me in New York. She brought them to me. So you you I have all my rocks.

Raphael Harry [00:06:20]:
Rocks or what?

Grace Nkem [00:06:21]:
Yeah. I was gathering them. I'd buy them in gift shops. I'd make my parents, like, take me to every science museum nearby so I could buy more. I would, like, dig around in dirt a lot as a child.

Raphael Harry [00:06:31]:
Were there any particular rocks that were attractive to you, or you just I loved

Grace Nkem [00:06:38]:
unpolished crystals. Like, that was my favorite thing.

Raphael Harry [00:06:42]:
Oh.

Grace Nkem [00:06:42]:
But, like, I you're not supposed to take rocks from national parks, but I found some cool, like like, those balls that have a lot of iron in them that break in half and kind of, like, layers. Like, I found one of those at a national park. I will not disclose the name of, allegedly. And I Allegedly. Yes.

Raphael Harry [00:06:59]:
Do not come for me.

Grace Nkem [00:07:00]:
That's what I'm being accused of. I I didn't actually I would never. I like turquoise. I really like turquoise. I loved, yeah. Crystals, though, was the cool one, which is, like, the hardest to find out in the wild.

Raphael Harry [00:07:12]:
Wow.

Grace Nkem [00:07:13]:
Gotta, like, be in a cave or really dig through some dirt and sandstone.

Raphael Harry [00:07:19]:
No. He just reminded me that someone found, how many carat diamond at the was it a state park in Arkansas? Wow. Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:07:29]:
In Arkansas? I don't even know where I mean, I where I grew up, you could mine, there were there's a lot of gold mines tourmaline. And there was one of

Raphael Harry [00:07:41]:
that before.

Grace Nkem [00:07:42]:
It's it's like a mineral that like, there's like it comes in a lot of colors, but the most popular one for jewelry is, like, the pink and green one. Okay. It's literally like half and half. It's called watermelon tourmaline.

Raphael Harry [00:07:54]:
Oh.

Grace Nkem [00:07:54]:
I have a little piece, but there's, there was this old

Raphael Harry [00:07:58]:
found it by yourself?

Grace Nkem [00:07:59]:
No. I didn't. I bought it at a gift shop. See? But there's an old abandoned mine near my hometown, like, maybe 45 minute drive, where you could pay for a couple hours with a bucket and a shovel, and you could try to find your own. Oh. And last time I went home, my mom and I were looking at it, and it's become exorbitantly expensive, like, to the point where I'm like, you might as well just buy a Disneyland ticket.

Raphael Harry [00:08:18]:
Wow. That expensive?

Grace Nkem [00:08:19]:
Yeah. I'm I'm just like, aren't of that many people doing this that you can charge these prices? But so, yeah, I had to I haven't really I've never gone into a mine also. I'm claustrophobic. Yeah. I don't wanna go into a candy.

Raphael Harry [00:08:31]:
I watched too many movies too. It's crazy stuff happening in mines. But Mhmm. I mean, I I would have it didn't look like it looked Arkansas doesn't know. I mean, I guess Arkansas has mines, but it didn't I don't think it happened in the mining.

Grace Nkem [00:08:44]:
Of course. Know what I associate

Raphael Harry [00:08:46]:
Arkansas with. Yeah. I don't think I should say it.

Grace Nkem [00:08:48]:
But that, I know that's Besides slavery.

Raphael Harry [00:08:51]:
Well, there's that I mean, yeah. But, I'm not gonna say that. I'm I'm a I'm a good person this year. Okay. No. It's a it's a wild joke. I don't know if it's a wild joke. And this is not a this is not a Patreon only episode.

Raphael Harry [00:09:05]:
If it was a Patreon only episode, I would have said it. And then yeah. But I I'm trying I'm I'll be on a good behavior right now. So but, yeah, we I found it interesting because I I know I'm aware of the gold rush. That's what led people moving towards California back in the days.

Grace Nkem [00:09:20]:
That's in San Francisco.

Raphael Harry [00:09:22]:
Yeah. So Stuff. Yeah. I I think it wouldn't have surprised me if I I think the only surprise would have been if someone had seen a tourist. I think he came from France even. Yeah. He he was visiting from France. And I don't think he his intention was to find the diamond, which is why it was extra, was an extra surprise.

Raphael Harry [00:09:43]:
It seemed like it was just laying on on on the on on the grounds.

Grace Nkem [00:09:46]:
Sorry. I hit the desk. One time, my stepdad's sister was hiking in, like, I don't know, like Sequoia or so. It was like a national park hike, but she literally found a gold nugget, like the size of, like, like, the top part of my, like like, my thumbnail roughly. Like, a solid trunk though. And she gave it to her mom who, like, wore it in a necklace forever. But she literally just found it, like, on the

Raphael Harry [00:10:09]:
ground on a hiking

Grace Nkem [00:10:10]:
trail.

Raphael Harry [00:10:10]:
Something like that. She was like, woah. Woah. Woah. But apparently

Grace Nkem [00:10:13]:
She still has

Raphael Harry [00:10:14]:
it somewhere. How many carat diamond he found, and I was like, I can still got diamonds? What? That was news to me now because that's not I don't associate that state with them. I mean, I've driven through that state twice, and other than the chat with it, with a a trucker. That was the best the only good thing that I did there. But, yeah, That was it. I slept in my car. It was one eye open too.

Grace Nkem [00:10:37]:
Did you go to Waffle House?

Raphael Harry [00:10:40]:
I

Grace Nkem [00:10:40]:
wanna go to a Waffle House.

Raphael Harry [00:10:41]:
I've seen the fight videos. Oh. Yeah. I think I'm I'm okay starving myself through the night. I'm like, because

Grace Nkem [00:10:48]:
That's funny.

Raphael Harry [00:10:48]:
If I make the wrong order, if if you give me in fact, if you get my order wrong, I'm fine. Just just give my food. I'll go. I don't wanna get beat up.

Grace Nkem [00:10:55]:
When I was 18, on my 18th birthday, a bunch of friends went to see Rocky Horror Picture Show. And then, like, in my hometown, the only place open late was Denny's. They were 247.

Raphael Harry [00:11:07]:
Oh, that's so weird.

Grace Nkem [00:11:07]:
So we afterwards all went to this Denny's that's open 24 hours. And my mom came to pick me and my friend up. And she what she pulled up to was, like, a fight happening in the Denny's parking lot.

Raphael Harry [00:11:19]:
Lots of fights on Denny's left.

Grace Nkem [00:11:20]:
It was like well, she was like, Grayson pulling around the back. Like, you guys need to come out right now. Like, there's something and, like, we look out the window and people are actually, like, really beating each other up in, like, Denny's Temecula. And then my mom was super mad at us the whole drive home. But I don't even know there was a fight happening because I was inside eating, an omelette.

Raphael Harry [00:11:40]:
Yeah. I've only eaten at Denny's when I had and there was no choice.

Grace Nkem [00:11:45]:
I like diners.

Raphael Harry [00:11:46]:
I like diners too, but I I prefer, you know, you don't don't make me remember that myself and Walter were laughing over something. I'm just gonna say it. There was, someone sent me a video just before he arrived in the studio, and it was, you you know how back in the in the days, you know, civil rights protests, you know, there were so many restaurants.

Grace Nkem [00:12:10]:
Or like sit ins?

Raphael Harry [00:12:11]:
Yeah. The sit ins. And I saw a video of, one of, you know, our ancestors. Well, for a problem, I don't know if his person is still alive, but one people went through the sit ins. And he's talking about, you know, when the segregation was finally over. And I got to sit down one of those restaurants that they wouldn't allow us sit, sit down in. And I finally tasted the food. That was the lousiest food I ever had in my life.

Grace Nkem [00:12:36]:
I was like, oh, damn.

Raphael Harry [00:12:39]:
I was like, oh, so you know what? This people could have just allowed us to test the food in the beginning. Would have never come in there. I was like, you know you know what? Yeah. They did it all wrong. You you instead of fighting the original just here you go. Try the food. I'm like, oh, hell, no. This is bad.

Raphael Harry [00:12:55]:
I got it back.

Grace Nkem [00:12:57]:
How do they go to was it a diner? Was it like an American diner?

Raphael Harry [00:13:00]:
Most of them well, they they always look like diners back then.

Grace Nkem [00:13:03]:
They tried, like, a

Raphael Harry [00:13:04]:
green bean casserole or something,

Grace Nkem [00:13:05]:
and they were like, oh my god.

Raphael Harry [00:13:07]:
He's like, what is this? Oh, hell

Grace Nkem [00:13:10]:
Actually, my friend

Raphael Harry [00:13:10]:
made the green casserole

Grace Nkem [00:13:12]:
once. I liked it.

Raphael Harry [00:13:14]:
I was like, oh, man. This video I was like, why why they send me this video just before recording? I will stop thinking about it. I never thought about it because I was like, these videos you know, all the videos I saw at the sittings. And you're like, this football would be amazing. And then, like, wait. Nobody ever thought about yeah. You finally you know, you can try the food on your tits. Man, this food sucks.

Raphael Harry [00:13:37]:
Oh, no. No. No. I'll be I'll be mad. I'll be mad. Like, this is what you made me go through? Oh, no. But

Grace Nkem [00:13:43]:
No. I hate to be a hater. Yeah. But that happened to me with the in in this neighborhood, the Indonesian restaurant down 7th.

Raphael Harry [00:13:49]:
Really?

Grace Nkem [00:13:50]:
I tried it. I got the we got the big platter thing and I was like, I can't believe this place is always like, all the reservations are taken. You can never walk in

Raphael Harry [00:13:58]:
and find this place. The ATM there. It's

Grace Nkem [00:14:00]:
always packed. I literally was just like, this is mid. I thought it was mid. Well I'm not name dropping. It's not

Raphael Harry [00:14:07]:
stage of elimination. I'm I'm I'm gonna be mad, so I won't say what I was gonna say. I was gonna I was gonna I just

Grace Nkem [00:14:13]:
I was really, like I like, I was shocked. I was like, this is this is place is so popping all the time.

Raphael Harry [00:14:19]:
So hard to get to see. The the Nigerian place that I that's like my nemesis. I I won't say it's my nemesis. It's the place that people don't know Nigerian food always around there. The decor inside is fantastic. The drinks, yes. They they got good drinks because they have all the Nigerian beers, Ghanaian beers. Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:14:36]:
And but palmoyin. The palmoy is not, you can't get fresh palmoyin anywhere except they have a palmoyin tapas. So

Grace Nkem [00:14:42]:
Oh, there was okay. I once on Google found, it's kind of, like, north of Little Caribbean up no stream, maybe towards Bebstie, but there was a place that, supposedly sells palm wine just by the bottle. I don't know. I've never tried it.

Raphael Harry [00:14:58]:
Well, palm wine, I've I've found I'm a I'm a palm wine person. You know, we got it local from my my region.

Grace Nkem [00:15:04]:
I'll try it some I should try it. It's it's

Raphael Harry [00:15:07]:
all in

Grace Nkem [00:15:07]:
all the crappy. Yeah. It's

Raphael Harry [00:15:08]:
yeah. It's all in the green bottle. As far as it's in the green bottle, it's just it's imported. It has been preserved and all that, but you gotta go back home to get real palm wine.

Grace Nkem [00:15:20]:
Right.

Raphael Harry [00:15:21]:
If I can I want to talk to somebody? We're thinking about an investment, but we can't get, like, not sure if I'm wine here. Yeah. We can cook off winter and all that. But if we could figure out how to, you know, maybe somewhere like Florida.

Grace Nkem [00:15:35]:
I was literally gonna suggest Florida, but Florida, I'm like, that's persona non growth.

Raphael Harry [00:15:39]:
Because where we're go thinking of was Costa Rica, but still that means there's still some travel because

Grace Nkem [00:15:45]:
I know someone with land in Costa Rica. Yeah. My boss is desperately trying to retire there, but he's trying to grow Ayahuasca. Oh. Not wine.

Raphael Harry [00:15:54]:
Yeah. Well, it's from the palm tree, you know. All you need is the palm wine topper. But the the the main issue is, like, the way I we drink it back home is, like, you know, you go to the palm wine bar. I will use bar as the word. And once you sit down there, like, you know, the palm oil is coming fresh from the tree. Mhmm. That's the best.

Raphael Harry [00:16:17]:
Either you get that or you can get the fermented ones, but the best ones are literally fresh from the tree. So where where are you gonna get that here?

Grace Nkem [00:16:26]:
So you

Raphael Harry [00:16:26]:
have to settle for the imported ones. But, anyway, let's come back to you. We've deviated enough. Still got a lot to cover. So no more distractions, you know Alright. For me. Let me see where I go. So one question I forgot to ask y'all when I had the 3 of you here.

Raphael Harry [00:16:46]:
And for those listening, it was Amir and Obina with grace on episode 6 166 and 1667. I've got to ask you, how do you define art?

Grace Nkem [00:17:00]:
Oh, I don't. Art is, a reload to is, like, cursing allowed on this?

Raphael Harry [00:17:07]:
It's up to you. No.

Grace Nkem [00:17:07]:
Okay. Well, this isn't really cursing.

Raphael Harry [00:17:09]:
Feel free.

Grace Nkem [00:17:09]:
This is really cursing. But art is art is like pornography.

Raphael Harry [00:17:12]:
Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:17:13]:
It's, it's impossible to put us that definition on it, but you know it when you see it. And it's really subjective. But generally speaking, you know it when you see it. A lot of stuff blurs that like, the lines around it, but I don't think there's a point in trying to define art. Because then we get into that, like, annoying conversation where people start complaining about, like, Jackson Pollock or, like, abstract art. And I just, like, I gotta roll my eyes. Like, I I can't do this anymore. Oh.

Grace Nkem [00:17:38]:
I'm not there's no definition for art. It's it's really, like, there's a general consensus that, like, some mediums, like painting and sculpture, tend to be art. But then you have, like, conceptual sculpture and performance art, and then people wanna, like, get their panties tied up in a knot about it. But Mhmm. Yeah. Arts. You you know what art is. There's no point in putting it to the I'm addressing this.

Grace Nkem [00:18:00]:
You know what art is. You know it when you see it, and you can just see people.

Raphael Harry [00:18:04]:
Like asking an artist what they consider art. You know, how they define art in their own words. Because,

Grace Nkem [00:18:12]:
my art is oil painting. I'll say that. Like, that's what that's what I do.

Raphael Harry [00:18:16]:
Because I've had, probably about 6 artists Mhmm. On this podcast and, of different, genres and, you know, and each person has come up with something or somebody working in in the arts industry, and each person has used a different Yeah. I don't even

Grace Nkem [00:18:37]:
bother trying to

Raphael Harry [00:18:38]:
So trying to It's always it's always beautiful hearing. But I love that you you use pornography. And as someone who supports and enjoys and admires pornography. And if you're brand new, then, yes, you just found out. But those who are

Grace Nkem [00:18:53]:
the long

Raphael Harry [00:18:53]:
term business oh, Oh, you're hentai. Oh, that's deep. That's that's far deeper than me. I'm, I'm I'm not, I'm I'm yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:19:01]:
No. I'm not strictly anti. It's kind of like, like prohibition. Like, you can't like, you know, prohibition just creates bootleggers.

Raphael Harry [00:19:08]:
Mhmm.

Grace Nkem [00:19:08]:
Bootlegging, but no. Yeah. I've never met someone with an openly pro no. Actually, that's not true. Lots of people have pro pornography stances. But but but but it's also I would

Raphael Harry [00:19:17]:
say it's a very interesting if you're from, like, our background, it's, it's it's we we hide in the shadows. We all like, then you shouldn't do that. It's bad. And then

Grace Nkem [00:19:27]:
I I think I don't think I'm not that I don't think it's that of interesting of a topic at the end

Raphael Harry [00:19:31]:
of the

Grace Nkem [00:19:32]:
day, though. I don't know.

Raphael Harry [00:19:33]:
Yeah. I'm

Grace Nkem [00:19:33]:
not gonna beat the dead horse.

Raphael Harry [00:19:35]:
No. No. No. No. Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:19:36]:
But that's my definition of art or my my lack thereof.

Raphael Harry [00:19:39]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Okay. That's so now I'll I'll add that to the growing list of definitions. I know.

Grace Nkem [00:19:46]:
What are the other definitions people have?

Raphael Harry [00:19:47]:
Because some people

Grace Nkem [00:19:48]:
are like, oh, it's self expression. I'm like, no. It's not.

Raphael Harry [00:19:51]:
The the the one that always sticks with me. 2 people have said almost the exact same thing.

Grace Nkem [00:19:59]:
Mhmm.

Raphael Harry [00:19:59]:
So, I can't I I'm not gonna be able to credit who said it. Well, I think both of them literally said almost well, actually, 3 because one is a comic. He's into one is a comic book artist, but also a street artist, but he has his own comic book. Sean Hill, and, one is, what's my South African brother's name? He gonna I hope hope his number. But he's also he works in an art gallery. And, then, Lord and Lina, she owns an art gallery uptown, upstate, I mean, upstate New York. Just let me see if I remember the if I recall the exact phrase. Or just ballpark.

Raphael Harry [00:20:43]:
It's at is it's at is something that you'll know it when so it's almost well, yeah. I think you also said the same thing too in a way. Art no. Art is something that when you see it, it generates a feeling within you. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm paraphrasing, but yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:21:05]:
So yours also fits in there. And it's always Totally. Amazing how for you know, I think 5 people have said this thing have said it in a way, but it when you see it, it generates a feeling within you. And I'm like, None of them have met each other, and you all keep going back to this thing. So that's why I like asking that question. How do you define acting on words? And there's that theme underlying theme of when you see it.

Grace Nkem [00:21:32]:
Because I don't think it's there's a point in, like, defining art. Like, oh, it's, like, really good this or good that. There's plenty of bad art and good art. Yes. That doesn't being bad doesn't make it not art. You know? Like, I don't know.

Raphael Harry [00:21:43]:
Sean Hill's point that, but it generates it has a generative feeling.

Grace Nkem [00:21:47]:
Yeah. There's

Raphael Harry [00:21:48]:
within you a response. Okay. So you lived in you've you've lived in both United States and Russia.

Grace Nkem [00:22:03]:
Yeah. But until I was or I had my 4th birthday here

Raphael Harry [00:22:06]:
Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:22:06]:
In preschool. I it was, like, a month after we got here, I couldn't speak English yet.

Raphael Harry [00:22:11]:
Hey. You the but you you you you speak great. No. Not not nobody will notice that. There's no Russian accent in me in your voice. Right?

Grace Nkem [00:22:21]:
Accent for me.

Raphael Harry [00:22:22]:
I can't pretend I know I know I know you we we know we know we know we know we know this secret, but, you know, how have these contrasting cultural experiences influenced your artistic journey?

Grace Nkem [00:22:34]:
Great question. Contract okay. So, Russian cultural influence I had a phase of really loving Soviet, like, socialist realism and early Soviet art, like, with the Soviet avant garde, like constructivism and stuff like that. Malevich, one of my all time favorite artists. I he did the black square. It's just so funny. It's so simple. It's just the black square.

Grace Nkem [00:23:02]:
Just a black square? It's just a black square.

Raphael Harry [00:23:04]:
But how he displayed it,

Grace Nkem [00:23:05]:
was he hung it up in a corner of a room, the way the place you'd usually put, like, an icon of, like, Jesus Christ

Raphael Harry [00:23:13]:
Mhmm.

Grace Nkem [00:23:13]:
Madonna or something. So in a he displayed it like a holy object, but it's the painting of a black square, which at the time, naturally, if you're like if this year what is, like, the 19 tens, 19 twenties? Naturally, at that point, this is very transgressive. Now I'm like, now you can I'm like, you can I don't even know what you would have to do as an artist nowadays to be pro transgressive? You'd have to, like, blow up a building. Like, I don't think that

Raphael Harry [00:23:43]:
art Banana?

Grace Nkem [00:23:45]:
It's not even transgressive, I think. I I was I saw it. I saw it at Basel. The Banana at Perotan. I don't remember the artist's name who did it, but I remember walking by and being like

Raphael Harry [00:23:54]:
That's it?

Grace Nkem [00:23:55]:
No. I was I thought someone had played a prank or something. Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:23:58]:
That's what I thought too when I said.

Grace Nkem [00:23:59]:
And I was, like, kinda looking at it. I was like, oh, that's like a like, not worth seeing. Like, I have to go back to work, like, whatever. And then it's, like, on, like, art forum and, like, art news, like, all the headlines. I was like, oh, my god. Literally this, like, banana on a wall and some then some collector ate it. I don't know. The whole thing

Raphael Harry [00:24:16]:
was just very

Grace Nkem [00:24:19]:
but see, it's not transgressive. It's just funny. And it's also it's I guess it's a little satirical. Like, the art world has gotten ridiculous. Commercial art has gotten ridiculous. That whole stunt was kind of

Raphael Harry [00:24:30]:
Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:24:30]:
I feel like people were rolling their eyes even

Raphael Harry [00:24:32]:
after I got one for you. The I saw it on, Doysia Vela, the, the Jesus the painting of Jesus that some far right groups in Europe are calling homoerotic.

Grace Nkem [00:24:48]:
To me. Far right?

Raphael Harry [00:24:49]:
Yeah. I was like, well, not that. I'm I'm I'm

Grace Nkem [00:24:51]:
like, how's it okay, dude. That's a naked guy nailed to a cross. Hasn't this always been kind of a problem?

Raphael Harry [00:24:57]:
I guess to them, they just discovered

Grace Nkem [00:25:00]:
He's kneeling down before his followers, gently washing their feet. I'm like, come on. Come on. He he this he's, like, living in the ancient Roman Empire. You think that's not homo or anything? Jesus can get down with the boys sometimes.

Raphael Harry [00:25:12]:
Twelve guys.

Grace Nkem [00:25:13]:
12 guys. 12 guys in a bathhouse, baby.

Raphael Harry [00:25:19]:
I know what goes down

Grace Nkem [00:25:20]:
in bathhouses. You know, I mean, the Romans Right, man. They lived around the time of Caesar. Caesar, who was famously called every woman's husband and every man's wife.

Raphael Harry [00:25:28]:
Oh, yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:25:28]:
It's bisexual representation right now. But,

Raphael Harry [00:25:32]:
no.

Grace Nkem [00:25:32]:
I but see, I don't think that's transgressive.

Raphael Harry [00:25:34]:
Oh, well, that's that's true.

Grace Nkem [00:25:35]:
I think it's, I think that far right, I guess, like, Christian nationalists find it offensive.

Raphael Harry [00:25:41]:
They find everything.

Grace Nkem [00:25:42]:
But, like, I

Raphael Harry [00:25:42]:
don't I mean, anything that doesn't come from them is offensive, to be

Grace Nkem [00:25:45]:
honest. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. You're transgressive. But it's I don't think it's transgressive in and of itself. Like, blowing up a, I don't know. I don't even know.

Grace Nkem [00:25:55]:
Because, like, I'm thinking of, like, banks

Raphael Harry [00:25:56]:
You said you said because

Grace Nkem [00:25:57]:
even, yeah, I'm just trying to think of, like, something an artist could do that would be transgressive, but I just keep thinking of, like, acts of terrorism. Okay. How about the people throwing soup at paintings? Even that, I'm like, it's not even transgressive. It's just, like Is that is that considered art? No. It's activism. It's climate activism.

Raphael Harry [00:26:13]:
Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:26:14]:
I I think it's good that they're doing it. They're not harming the paintings. It's just they're just drawing attention to an issue. No one's, like, really except it's yeah. I don't know. It doesn't seem to do much, though. There's I

Raphael Harry [00:26:25]:
don't think people take them seriously, ma'am. No. It's lost. It's,

Grace Nkem [00:26:28]:
Even though they're so right?

Raphael Harry [00:26:30]:
Yeah. But I don't know. It's for me, I I I don't know. I don't, maybe it they don't have my attention anymore. I mean, the last one, I saw the

Grace Nkem [00:26:39]:
They got the Mona Lisa. They're collecting

Raphael Harry [00:26:42]:
But it was it was it was in a glass case.

Grace Nkem [00:26:44]:
Yeah. They always do. They always go for paintings that are covered. They never actually damage them.

Raphael Harry [00:26:49]:
Yeah. They used to do go after, I've seen the guy who touched one that wasn't in the glass. I think because of what they've been doing, then I started putting them in glass cases because I saw the one where the guy touched the real painting. Oh. And then they they were talking about how much they're gonna spend to

Grace Nkem [00:27:05]:
Oh, that sucks. Someone drew on a I don't even remember what. I don't know. But, I mean, like, art historically, there have been loads of paintings that have been, like, vandalized, damaged. That that's I don't know. I mean, the whole idea that a painting is worth 1,000,000 of dollars

Raphael Harry [00:27:24]:
is made anyway. Alive. Yeah. Way after the artist is died then came. Yeah. Yeah. Duvalley went up.

Grace Nkem [00:27:32]:
But a cultural artifact. So I guess yeah. It's they that's why it's worth money. With contemporary art sometimes and I say this as funny because I am a contemporary artist. But sometimes with contemporary art, I'm like, oh my god. What a scam. Like, the banana. I'm like, that's Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:27:47]:
It's I don't know. It's a PR stunt. Come on.

Raphael Harry [00:27:49]:
Yeah. That that was a PR stunt. Yeah. But but how how do you feel how do you feel about that? When I've used that language before. I'm not you know?

Grace Nkem [00:27:57]:
Spark joy. That It doesn't

Raphael Harry [00:27:58]:
When people look at art and say, wait. Is this not a scam? And I know there's some money laundering that goes into, like, I've heard I've heard about

Grace Nkem [00:28:06]:
Totally.

Raphael Harry [00:28:07]:
One good way for money to be learned. That is true.

Grace Nkem [00:28:09]:
Yeah. Duty free ports Yeah. Buying art, shuttling it around, avoiding taxes. Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:28:15]:
So Oh, I totally agree.

Grace Nkem [00:28:16]:
I totally agree. That's I don't even think that's a conspiracy theory. That's just true.

Raphael Harry [00:28:22]:
So if if I

Grace Nkem [00:28:23]:
think a lot of

Raphael Harry [00:28:24]:
someone wants to buy your art for such purposes?

Grace Nkem [00:28:28]:
I mean, yeah. I I live under capitalism. If a rich person wants to use me as, like, the tax break or, like, to launder some money that they got from an an arms deal, go for it, man. What am I gonna do?

Raphael Harry [00:28:39]:
Okay. I I I like that. I like the honesty there.

Grace Nkem [00:28:42]:
Kidding. I don't sell at a blue chip gallery. Like, please pay my rent, buy my artwork.

Raphael Harry [00:28:46]:
There you go. There you

Grace Nkem [00:28:48]:
go. But

Raphael Harry [00:28:49]:
So I

Grace Nkem [00:28:49]:
think it's it's, it's an inevitable. Just the way that, there's, someone said once art is, like, the art market is a barnacle on the ass of finance. I think that's a great way to put it. It's not like the artists or the gallerists themselves are causing this. It's just like the way that, taxation around fine art and its import and export and sales works makes it a perfect vehicle to launder money with. You could also just as well launder money by opening a restaurant or something. You know? But the price point at which art is sold and the, ways in which it can be stored and moved around make it. Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:29:29]:
It's like if you wanna stop people from using art to launder money, you'd have to change, like, legislation. You know? It's people would find a yeah. So It's a

Raphael Harry [00:29:39]:
Do do you get

Grace Nkem [00:29:40]:
international finance is the real culprit here.

Raphael Harry [00:29:43]:
That's right. Do you get taxed per art sales or, like, per like, each painting?

Grace Nkem [00:29:50]:
Yeah. If you wanna report that as income.

Raphael Harry [00:29:52]:
Okay. Okay. Well, that that's something I've never thought about too.

Grace Nkem [00:29:58]:
Yeah. I mean but if, like, if a person so, like, if a gallery sold, let's take Arabella, for instance. If she sold one of my paintings as the gallery, she would take and the person who bought it was in New York state, she would charge them New York state sales tax.

Raphael Harry [00:30:14]:
Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:30:14]:
If the person lived in Connecticut or Nebraska, she wouldn't charge them New York state sales tax. And instead, the gallery and I would just pay the tax, on the income we got from the painting. Oh. Yeah. Okay. So which is a lot of reason a lot of, art collectors, even if they, like, live in New York, will be like, could you please ship that to the duty free art storage facility in Miami? I keep half my collection.

Raphael Harry [00:30:42]:
Wow. Or I

Grace Nkem [00:30:43]:
don't know. I chose Miami. I don't know why I chose Miami. Probably more like Delaware

Raphael Harry [00:30:47]:
Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:30:47]:
Or Jersey. Wow. That's collector who lives whose home is in Jersey will keep it at the duty free storage place in Harlem or Queens or something. You know what I mean?

Raphael Harry [00:30:58]:
Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:30:59]:
But there's, yeah, there's ways to, like, avoid taxes on the big asset you just bought that you're gonna use to move money later.

Raphael Harry [00:31:07]:
Wow.

Grace Nkem [00:31:07]:
But, yeah. I mean, someone fact check and correct me, but I'm pretty sure I have my facts straight on this one. But, also, like, there's a lot of internal, like, critique within fine art about art being used this way. Though I still maintain that, like, this is a global finance issue, not like a artist per artist issue. I wouldn't even like, unless it's, like, literally a mega gallery. Like, I'm not no individual is implicated per se.

Raphael Harry [00:31:31]:
Wow. Well, thank you for breaking that down because

Grace Nkem [00:31:34]:
I hope that

Raphael Harry [00:31:34]:
made sense. I felt like I'm rambling. I haven't, yeah. I've I never I I always I I knew about the just the big picture of the the the association with money laundering, but not more details like you just gave us. So, yeah, it's important to have that in the picture too so that when somebody is just But I

Grace Nkem [00:31:56]:
don't mean to make art sound like it's all bad or anything. I'm just cynical. I mean,

Raphael Harry [00:32:00]:
we all love it.

Grace Nkem [00:32:00]:
I went to a show that you invited me to actually yesterday at

Raphael Harry [00:32:03]:
Yes.

Grace Nkem [00:32:03]:
At a black brick project. That was so beautiful. It was like a wonderful campaign.

Raphael Harry [00:32:08]:
Francis to come on the podcast. They've been They'd

Grace Nkem [00:32:10]:
be great.

Raphael Harry [00:32:11]:
Delaying for over

Grace Nkem [00:32:11]:
2 years. They'd be great.

Raphael Harry [00:32:13]:
Yeah. We did we're they're too close to me. That's the problem. Oh. They've been postponing for, like, forever. But Tanda says she'll be on the podcast.

Grace Nkem [00:32:21]:
Art creates beautiful communities of people around it and Yeah. Etcetera, etcetera. It's just yeah. Anytime anything gets too close to finance capital, it turns into, you know, turns into a big evil demonic entity that

Raphael Harry [00:32:36]:
Hey. Makes

Grace Nkem [00:32:37]:
me cynical. But yeah. Even our Right.

Raphael Harry [00:32:39]:
No. It it's it's affect it beginning to get into podcasting right now. So yep. But can you share any specifics? Oh, sorry. I don't know. I'm really off my I'm yeah. Yeah. I'm off my list.

Grace Nkem [00:32:52]:
Of the year. Let's go.

Raphael Harry [00:32:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. Can you share any specific aspects of, because you also have Nigerian, heritage. Or if I'm if I wanna make some people happy, I'll be specific and say

Grace Nkem [00:33:05]:
Igbo. Igbo.

Raphael Harry [00:33:07]:
Yeah. So can you share any specific aspects of your Igbo or Russian art and culture that have left a lasting impact on your work?

Grace Nkem [00:33:17]:
Oh. Oh, well, a lot of my work right now, I'm really obsessed with, like, pre Christian, pre colonial Igbo sculpture of Sez. I think I I like it as a theme because, anyone who's vaguely familiar with early 20th century painting knows that. Like, African, South American, Southeast South Asian, Southeast Asian, but, like like, indigenous, what at the time was called, like, primitive sculpture, was a huge influence on, early abstract painting and especially Cubism. But I've been looking back at it in terms of not like, oh, this is primitive or, oh, this is unstudied or yada, yada. And not as an influence for cubism, but just like as just, I don't know. I think they're beautiful objects. I was talking about this last time when like the person yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:34:10]:
Last time on the pod, I was, like, the person who created, like, like, I have a painting of, like, an Ebo mask.

Raphael Harry [00:34:15]:
Mhmm.

Grace Nkem [00:34:15]:
I think it's the kind of mask that's worn on top of the head. But the person who made it wasn't thinking about sculpture

Raphael Harry [00:34:22]:
Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:34:23]:
Or art in the way that we're thinking of it now at all, even though we now consider it. It's kind of like, you know, the piece has moved through history, and now it's a sculptural object. It's ostensibly a piece of art. But at the time, the person who made it and the people who lived with it and interacted with it and used it, it wasn't a sculpture to them. It wasn't a museum piece. It was a ritual object with an presence and a purpose.

Raphael Harry [00:34:52]:
Mhmm.

Grace Nkem [00:34:53]:
And now it's like a piece of art. I think I don't I just like I like thinking through that and imagining I think you're just considering I'm never gonna know the object the way these people knew the object. People in the past knew the object. And, but I like to look at them. I don't know what I I can't even say what I really get out of it, but I'm really into

Raphael Harry [00:35:11]:
It speaks to you.

Grace Nkem [00:35:12]:
Yeah. It does.

Raphael Harry [00:35:13]:
I have a mask like that that I found I think that's I have 2. 1, I found, somebody was getting rid of it.

Grace Nkem [00:35:21]:
I found 1 on 7th Avenue like that.

Raphael Harry [00:35:24]:
Yeah. That it was around Seventh Avenue as well.

Grace Nkem [00:35:26]:
By the Thai restaurant, by JD.

Raphael Harry [00:35:29]:
One was much closer to us. Mhmm. And then the other one, I can't recall. I I know. I think the other ones are the flea market, and I have it hung in my living room. And I think the other one might be hung also. So but I can't really hang the other one. But I have both of them in my place.

Raphael Harry [00:35:44]:
And I don't really know where those masks are from. Mhmm. But I should search online and see

Grace Nkem [00:35:50]:
where they are. That that honestly looks Nigerian. It has the, the one I found on 7th. It has, like, a bird kind of crest thing on its head. Mhmm. Well, it looks like it looks like a modern remake that someone sold to a tourist of Nigerian mask. But it has, the scarifications on the face that I'm like, oh, this looks at least like something that could be from somewhere in the south of Nigeria. And then a mask I bought at the flea market.

Grace Nkem [00:36:18]:
I don't even remember where it's from. I got it at Chelsea Flea Market. I think it's, like, Cote D'ivoire or something. I just liked the how it looked. And then a little Nkisi

Raphael Harry [00:36:26]:
Mhmm.

Grace Nkem [00:36:26]:
Like the Congolese, or Central African, like, I they've been called power figures. They've been called lots of things. Yeah. But in Kiese with, like, 2 heads.

Raphael Harry [00:36:37]:
Oh. I

Grace Nkem [00:36:38]:
think he's really cute. And he looks kind of he's got, like, mirrors instead of eyes with pupils in the middle, but it looks like his eyes kinda follow you around the room.

Raphael Harry [00:36:48]:
Oh, okay. It's a

Grace Nkem [00:36:49]:
strange little object, but I really like him. Yeah. Matthew bought them for me in front of the Guggenheim

Raphael Harry [00:36:54]:
Oh, okay.

Grace Nkem [00:36:54]:
As a birthday gift from, from this dude who sold, like, African he had textiles and he had sculptures, and he used to be around he was a Senegalese man. He used to be above around the upper east side a lot. Because I remember I'd also see him in front of the Met Breuer when it was still the Met Breuer because now it's the Frick Museum.

Raphael Harry [00:37:15]:
But the Senegalese tend to have

Grace Nkem [00:37:17]:
I remember his name, but I bought a bunch of fabric from him over

Raphael Harry [00:37:22]:
over Yeah. That's the fabric I need to do some stuff with.

Grace Nkem [00:37:26]:
Yeah. So textiles again also. Yeah. Russia you asked a question Nigerian culture. Yeah. Art and craft, very into Ibo in particular, art and craft right now. But Russian wise, I have the growing up eating Russian food, I have the worst, like, food palate. I have the I'm like, pickled fish.

Grace Nkem [00:37:47]:
Delicious. That's I think it's probably even the biggest impact Russia's had on me just like my my taste in food is a little bit. I think it's okay to put mayonnaise in a salad, but I won't eat it with French fries.

Raphael Harry [00:38:08]:
Oh, okay.

Grace Nkem [00:38:08]:
Well, some no.

Raphael Harry [00:38:14]:
Yeah. I'm I'm I'm all about food. I'm a food guy. I eat food from everywhere, but I think my my daughter has me beat on that. So she she might because she's the German.

Grace Nkem [00:38:25]:
She likes sauerkraut?

Raphael Harry [00:38:27]:
I think she yeah. On her when as far as she's ready to eat, when she's in the mood, she will eat anything.

Grace Nkem [00:38:33]:
Good for her.

Raphael Harry [00:38:34]:
German. Good for her. Nigerian.

Grace Nkem [00:38:37]:
I was in Germany last summer, and every German person I asked for a food recommendation recommended a Turkish restaurant. Yeah. And I was like, I could get Turkish food in New York. I need I need you to tell me where I can get, like, try something German. I think I had, like, one pretzel, like, one hot dog the whole time I was there.

Raphael Harry [00:38:55]:
Where where where in Germany were you at?

Grace Nkem [00:38:57]:
Zeitz, Leipzig, and Berlin.

Raphael Harry [00:38:59]:
Oh, okay.

Grace Nkem [00:38:59]:
And I was just eating I've had really good Indian food. I had a really good Thai food. I had, like like, no jerk food. A lot of good Turkish food. There was this Turkish breakfast place next to our hotel in Berlin. I was like, for €8, it was like the biggest breakfast spread I'd ever seen. Like, the size of a Denny's grand slam of, like

Raphael Harry [00:39:20]:
Wow. The dipping

Grace Nkem [00:39:21]:
spread and the, like, little fruit cup and, like, some soft boiled eggs and, like, a dip and Mhmm. Like, a whole and I was just like, oh my god. Yeah. It was great.

Raphael Harry [00:39:31]:
Wow. I haven't been to Berlin, but,

Grace Nkem [00:39:33]:
I liked it.

Raphael Harry [00:39:34]:
Yeah. I've heard great things about Berlin.

Grace Nkem [00:39:37]:
I was I, like, totally forgot that World War 2 happened because I came in, and I was like, why are all the buildings so new? I was like, why does it sound like everything was built in the fifties? After the fifties, I was because I've been in Leipzig, and there's, like, all this historic architecture. I came

Raphael Harry [00:39:53]:
to Verona.

Grace Nkem [00:39:53]:
I was like, ew, the Philharmonic is so ugly. Well, yeah, I I I know why.

Raphael Harry [00:39:59]:
You found out.

Grace Nkem [00:40:00]:
I remembered. Yeah. But, like, the day 2, I was like, oh, damn. Yeah. There is not gonna be, like, a historic,

Raphael Harry [00:40:06]:
Well, that museums are great, though.

Grace Nkem [00:40:08]:
Yeah. They are.

Raphael Harry [00:40:09]:
Love them. They are. Yeah. Yeah. I love them. So, your love of masks, stools, and other objects can also be found in a lot of anime and from the previous

Grace Nkem [00:40:24]:
Oh, yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:40:24]:
Podcast, you know, you have I had

Grace Nkem [00:40:26]:
a real anime face as a kid. I loved it.

Raphael Harry [00:40:28]:
So would you be interested in working on an anime in the future?

Grace Nkem [00:40:32]:
No. Oh,

Raphael Harry [00:40:33]:
boy. That's that's

Grace Nkem [00:40:34]:
I should

Raphael Harry [00:40:35]:
have put that question in. I I ended so quickly. No. Thanks.

Grace Nkem [00:40:38]:
The last one, I I tried to watch this one called Serial Experiments Lane with Matthew about this girl who, like, becomes a deity through the Internet or something. I only got 4 episodes in, so I literally, not even know

Raphael Harry [00:40:51]:
I should be I should recommend animes for you. I think

Grace Nkem [00:40:53]:
what I think the plot is about, but I literally just kept falling asleep.

Raphael Harry [00:40:56]:
I don't know.

Grace Nkem [00:40:56]:
I fell off

Raphael Harry [00:40:57]:
The title alone kind of wanted to put me asleep. But the the Well,

Grace Nkem [00:41:01]:
it's it's iconic. It's very postmodern. I've heard a lot of good I don't know. I'm just making up words. I heard a lot of good things about it, and it's very influential within its little niche. It's like a science fiction anime, I guess. But I I literally I don't know. I couldn't I I haven't been great at watching TV shows.

Grace Nkem [00:41:17]:
Like, I'm not a big streamer of series. I can't keep up with them. I don't have I never wanna go back to it again. Like, I'd sit through a 2 hour movie. Right? But, like, to watch an an hour episode of something and then to do it again, and then to come back the next day and watch it again, I'm literally, like, rolling my eyes like I can't do it. I don't know if it's an attention span thing or

Raphael Harry [00:41:39]:
what, but I I I don't come

Grace Nkem [00:41:40]:
back to the series. I never come back.

Raphael Harry [00:41:43]:
It might be.

Grace Nkem [00:41:43]:
I've seen, like, 3 episodes of Black Mirror. And then, like, the next day, I was like, I don't wanna watch Black Mirror again.

Raphael Harry [00:41:49]:
Yeah. Black Mirror should be easier. It's it's literally like watching a separate movie. So now I'm

Grace Nkem [00:41:54]:
totally missing I don't wanna see anymore.

Raphael Harry [00:41:56]:
They're not the

Grace Nkem [00:41:57]:
same? The plug shows. I'm like, the plots going on season after season. I'm like, aren't you people tired of it? This could have been a 3 hour long movie. That's just me, though.

Raphael Harry [00:42:09]:
Okay. So But I like,

Grace Nkem [00:42:10]:
for instance, Neon Genesis Evangelion. I think that's a really beautiful series. Alright.

Raphael Harry [00:42:16]:
That was a surprise, but okay.

Grace Nkem [00:42:18]:
Yeah? Have you seen it?

Raphael Harry [00:42:21]:
I think a long time ago.

Grace Nkem [00:42:23]:
There's a, I think there's 3 of them. Are you 2 of them? Vampire Hunter d. Oh. It's a movie, though.

Raphael Harry [00:42:29]:
Oh, nice. See, it's a movie. Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:42:31]:
It's not a Right. I think their visual reach is so stunning, and I love the whole gothic vibe.

Raphael Harry [00:42:37]:
Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:42:38]:
Eighties anime is cool.

Raphael Harry [00:42:40]:
So Akira might be up.

Grace Nkem [00:42:41]:
I've seen Akira. I like Akira. I yeah. I like the movies. I like the movies.

Raphael Harry [00:42:46]:
So

Grace Nkem [00:42:46]:
I tried to watch Cowboy Bebop, but I didn't finish it.

Raphael Harry [00:42:48]:
That that might be too long for you.

Grace Nkem [00:42:50]:
Yeah. It's easy. Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:42:52]:
I mean, it's great. That's a classic. Let me see. I haven't watched a movie in a minute. Well, but one of, what's the Studio Ghibli? The Studio Ghibli movies.

Grace Nkem [00:43:06]:
Right? There's a new one out. Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:43:08]:
I I I wanna see it's bad. The boy and the heron? Yeah. Yeah. I I I couldn't make out time to catch that. I I went to see Godzilla minus 1 instead. Oh. That was great. That was one of the best.

Grace Nkem [00:43:20]:
Made me watch Godzilla versus Hamor

Raphael Harry [00:43:24]:
as That that that that was, Godzilla versus Kong. That was No.

Grace Nkem [00:43:28]:
It's it's an older one.

Raphael Harry [00:43:29]:
Okay. The older one.

Grace Nkem [00:43:30]:
It's like, some kind of smog creature from the ocean that looks like a stingray.

Raphael Harry [00:43:35]:
Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:43:36]:
Comes out. It's like an older sci fi thing and Godzilla

Raphael Harry [00:43:39]:
was like the Japanese one?

Grace Nkem [00:43:40]:
Yeah. And Godzilla is, like, defending the islands of Japan from this

Raphael Harry [00:43:45]:
small monster. I don't think I saw that one. Well, Godzilla minus 1 is one of the best movies.

Grace Nkem [00:43:52]:
God's okay. Godzilla minus 1. Okay. It's a new one.

Raphael Harry [00:43:56]:
You you you probably might cry because I I I don't know. Well, you might be stronger than me because I I

Grace Nkem [00:44:02]:
I No. I cry

Raphael Harry [00:44:03]:
I cry at movies. I cried. Dude, I I cry like The emotions got me.

Grace Nkem [00:44:06]:
I see a pigeon limping on the street. I'm like, oh my god. Like, it's over and over.

Raphael Harry [00:44:12]:
That was a well done movie. That's the reason why I haven't finished Monarch, on Apple TV, the Godzilla series, because I was like, man, I can't watch this anymore. I'm sorry. It's BS. It's just, I saw that. I'm like, man, this is Godzilla, man. Get out of here. It's nonsense.

Raphael Harry [00:44:29]:
You know? I mean, I'm a fan of Bill Russell, fantastic actor, and his son too is a good actor. But it's like, I've seen the light. I don't know

Grace Nkem [00:44:39]:
what It's Godzilla minus plus 1.

Raphael Harry [00:44:41]:
Minus 1.

Grace Nkem [00:44:41]:
Minus 1. Minus 1.

Raphael Harry [00:44:42]:
I'm like,

Grace Nkem [00:44:42]:
I don't

Raphael Harry [00:44:42]:
know what you guys are doing here. I don't care about the humans in this story. I don't care if you're cheating on you or without that person. I don't care. Fix your life. I don't care. Die all of you. I've seen a much better story, and I care about everybody in that story.

Raphael Harry [00:44:57]:
You all suck. So, bye. Get out here. Go. Go. Shush. Shush out.

Grace Nkem [00:45:03]:
You know what? I was trying to get a lot of I feel like I'm I haven't seen Sex in the City. I haven't seen Gossip Girl. I haven't seen How much

Raphael Harry [00:45:12]:
the first season of Gossip Girl? I was brand new in America.

Grace Nkem [00:45:16]:
What's the the one with, see, I don't even know what they're called. Yeah. The one it's like a mom and a daughter, and the daughter's trying to go to Yale. Gilmore Girls. I haven't seen any of them.

Raphael Harry [00:45:29]:
Person to ask about that because

Grace Nkem [00:45:31]:
But, like, because I

Raphael Harry [00:45:32]:
after sex after, what's the the girl's one? Yeah. That was the last one.

Grace Nkem [00:45:36]:
I'm like

Raphael Harry [00:45:37]:
I caught up.

Grace Nkem [00:45:37]:
Because I'm bad at watching series, but I tried to, like,

Raphael Harry [00:45:41]:
I tried to about comedy.

Grace Nkem [00:45:42]:
Myself into watching Sex and the City by watching a bunch of clips of the funniest moments on YouTube.

Raphael Harry [00:45:48]:
Okay. So you you like to laugh?

Grace Nkem [00:45:50]:
Yeah. And I was trying to, like I was like, okay. You know what?

Raphael Harry [00:45:52]:
I'm gonna side. It's as black as

Grace Nkem [00:45:54]:
it is.

Raphael Harry [00:45:55]:
South Side.

Grace Nkem [00:45:56]:
South Side.

Raphael Harry [00:45:56]:
That was the the that was the funniest show on HBO.

Grace Nkem [00:45:59]:
Okay.

Raphael Harry [00:46:00]:
Well okay. I think there's 2. My my one used to be on Netflix. I don't think I don't know if it's not Netflix anymore. It's it's because I saw it on HBO Max. My one of my favorite actors, Michaela Coel. I think that's how you say her name. She did I May Destroy.

Grace Nkem [00:46:18]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:46:20]:
That was, like, our first writing gig.

Grace Nkem [00:46:23]:
Uh-huh.

Raphael Harry [00:46:24]:
Chewing gum. She's a Nigerian British she's, she's placed a Nigerian British girl. Her mom is, like, Nigerian church woman. It's one of the most hilarious series I've seen. Every time

Grace Nkem [00:46:36]:
my dad comes here, he laughs. He's like, it's crazy how the churches just close their doors here. Like, that wouldn't happen. I there's no one in there right now.

Raphael Harry [00:46:44]:
It's it's that that series is mad funny. She's, 24 a 24 year old virgin Uh-huh. At the same time, and she's trying to navigate that journey of losing her virginity. It's mad funny. Like, that she's great.

Grace Nkem [00:46:57]:
Sounds like Nigerian fleet. No. No. It doesn't sound. I don't actually I haven't seen Fleet back.

Raphael Harry [00:47:00]:
I don't

Grace Nkem [00:47:00]:
know what it's about.

Raphael Harry [00:47:01]:
But she she's she's church.

Grace Nkem [00:47:02]:
I thought of pre season.

Raphael Harry [00:47:04]:
I think it was it's 2 seasons, 2 or

Grace Nkem [00:47:07]:
3 seasons. Mhmm.

Raphael Harry [00:47:07]:
Then, Southside is an assemble of, it's based on Southside Chicago. Mhmm. I don't know how

Grace Nkem [00:47:17]:
the Westside. I'm in Chicago. Southside

Raphael Harry [00:47:20]:
All the black actors.

Grace Nkem [00:47:22]:
Uh-huh.

Raphael Harry [00:47:22]:
Either they I don't know if they're all from that part of Chicago, but it's a an assemble of black comedic actors who are just it's hard to watch an episode, and you you got a frown on your face because you just gonna it's it's mad.

Grace Nkem [00:47:36]:
I'll watch some clips of it on YouTube to try to get myself to watch it and then not watch it.

Raphael Harry [00:47:40]:
I got mad when they canceled it. They canceled it after the thoughts.

Grace Nkem [00:47:43]:
Down to watch a series. I'm giving so many hours of my life to something, and I'm like, I should be painting.

Raphael Harry [00:47:49]:
Yeah. It it it might inspire you to paint something, fantastic.

Grace Nkem [00:47:54]:
I love, like, putting on, like, like, a documentary or something in the background while I'm painting so that I don't really have there's no plot. Oh. I'm not missing anything. You know? It's just like someone talking about, like, rainforest frogs.

Raphael Harry [00:48:08]:
Okay. So, like, animal documentaries?

Grace Nkem [00:48:10]:
Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. You know?

Raphael Harry [00:48:12]:
What? Did you see the Nikki Giovanni documentary?

Grace Nkem [00:48:14]:
No. Was that Nikki Giovanni?

Raphael Harry [00:48:16]:
Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:48:17]:
I don't know who that is.

Raphael Harry [00:48:19]:
Oh, surprised.

Grace Nkem [00:48:21]:
Are you gonna tell me who it is?

Raphael Harry [00:48:23]:
No. I think that that would be on that would be on you, though.

Grace Nkem [00:48:26]:
Okay.

Raphael Harry [00:48:27]:
Yeah. That that'll be on you too. Yeah. That's,

Grace Nkem [00:48:30]:
Well, that's your problem.

Raphael Harry [00:48:32]:
No. No. No. That's, I think you poet, activist. But not activist. She says she's people use her work. But she she define in her own words, I I think I'm doing her injustice. Alright.

Grace Nkem [00:48:45]:
I'll read the Wikipedia page.

Raphael Harry [00:48:46]:
Yeah. Because she has one of one one of my favorite lines throughout documentaries when it comes about I'm not I'm paraphrasing. It's when it comes to going to other planets, she believes black women should be the first Mhmm. To visit other planets because they know what it's like to live as aliens on a planet.

Grace Nkem [00:49:06]:
Ah, oh, wow.

Raphael Harry [00:49:08]:
But you you should look into our points.

Grace Nkem [00:49:12]:
Sons on not me, though.

Raphael Harry [00:49:14]:
Well, yeah, I think they will need you to volunteer for that.

Grace Nkem [00:49:17]:
No. I'm yeah. They can send other black women.

Raphael Harry [00:49:19]:
Yeah. But it's it's but that's just one of our ones. No. No.

Grace Nkem [00:49:22]:
No. That that's impressive.

Raphael Harry [00:49:23]:
I'm just I don't know. I'm on a She's fantastic.

Grace Nkem [00:49:25]:
I can't help. I keep trying to make jokes because I'm, like, got a mic in front of my face. I'm, like, I gotta turn everything into a joke, you know? But I was think I've I've I've was having this conversation with a couple of colleagues once where I'm like my boss asked, he was like, if you if aliens came to Earth right now and they said, you can go into space and see the universe with us, but you can never come back to Earth, would you go? And I was like, no. Never in my life. And, like, 3 other people were like, yeah. I wanna know what's out there. I wanna see it. I was like, never in my life have I had the urge to leave the planet.

Grace Nkem [00:49:54]:
Really? No. Never. Never. Like, this Musk space Mars call anything, I'm like, why would anybody want No.

Raphael Harry [00:49:59]:
No. No. Musk. No. Musk.

Grace Nkem [00:50:01]:
Why does anyone want Why? Why? Why do people who wanna go to the International Space Station?

Raphael Harry [00:50:05]:
The white, was it let me okay. Let me rephrase it. Musk is just a South African prince. If he wasn't a white

Grace Nkem [00:50:13]:
Azealia Banks called him, a bloated pork

Raphael Harry [00:50:25]:
means you brought your nose close to him.

Grace Nkem [00:50:27]:
So funny.

Raphael Harry [00:50:28]:
But all I'm just gonna point out is, you know, I I love some messy drama, and I've seen a bunch of messy documentaries. And I know scam when I see a scam. Mhmm. Musk is one of the best scammers out there.

Grace Nkem [00:50:42]:
I think okay. So I am like

Raphael Harry [00:50:45]:
If he was a the the black African, the the the one of them Arab Africans, you ain't gonna give him all this money you're throwing at him. So that's

Grace Nkem [00:50:53]:
He had a bunch of money from his father's emerald mine. Yeah. But if

Raphael Harry [00:50:57]:
you've watched them scam documentaries like I do Yeah. You know that the best scammers on earth, people who look like Musk.

Grace Nkem [00:51:05]:
Yeah. When I was younger, I thought he was Asian.

Raphael Harry [00:51:09]:
Oh, really? Oh, wow. Okay. Well, I think we need to start wrapping up this podcast. No.

Grace Nkem [00:51:13]:
No. No. No. No. But, I gosh. Okay. Okay. Well, what confuses me I just keep picking this table so much about Musk is that, like, he has this, like, pathological need for attention.

Raphael Harry [00:51:23]:
Oh, that

Grace Nkem [00:51:23]:
he that's just crazy. He can't stop tweeting.

Raphael Harry [00:51:25]:
He he It's crazy.

Grace Nkem [00:51:27]:
He has to, like, have an opinion on everything. Whereas I'm like, look at, like, Bezos. Okay. Both, I would argue are like, parasites, on the ass of humanity. Billionaires shouldn't exist. That's my politics. But look at how much more tastefully Bezos lives. You know? He's, like, still owns Amazon pretty much, but he's not the CEO anymore.

Grace Nkem [00:51:51]:
He's just, like, on the board, basically, as a majority shareholder.

Raphael Harry [00:51:55]:
Sci fi watch.

Grace Nkem [00:51:56]:
He's he's, like, off the radar. He's, like, off the map. He's, like he really took all those, like, threats about how much people hate his ass seriously.

Raphael Harry [00:52:06]:
And he's like, you know what? I'm disappearing myself.

Grace Nkem [00:52:09]:
I'm not even the richest man anymore. Elon can have that title. I'm I'm off the radar.

Raphael Harry [00:52:13]:
Might overtake Elon with the way Elon is going.

Grace Nkem [00:52:15]:
Versus Elon who's like, I need people to always pay attention to me all the time. It confuses me. If if I was like okay. I don't know. This whole, like, billionaire worship thing, I find very, like, But I especially find undignified the fact that Elon seems to, like, enjoy it so much. Even talking about it now, I'm like, why am I paying attention to it?

Raphael Harry [00:52:38]:
Yeah. Yeah. Let's let's let's go to something much more exciting and fun because yeah. I I know Asherin, you've mentioned Asherin is number 1, nemesis because Asherin hates Bezos more than anybody I've ever met.

Grace Nkem [00:52:51]:
I mean yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:52:52]:
But I've told him, like, Musk, to me, Musk is the These these I

Grace Nkem [00:52:56]:
try to not even Yeah. But interact with its subsidiary companies.

Raphael Harry [00:53:00]:
My only I I I love the shows on Amazon. They've got some great shows.

Grace Nkem [00:53:03]:
I don't wanna consume content.

Raphael Harry [00:53:05]:
I do. I do. I do. That's why I'm here.

Grace Nkem [00:53:07]:
No content in my feed trough, please.

Raphael Harry [00:53:10]:
I I'm here. I'm not I'm not going, you know. But, we don't have much time left, unfortunately.

Grace Nkem [00:53:16]:
Okay. Sorry. See, we're I'm more rambling.

Raphael Harry [00:53:18]:
No. No. No. It's not it's it's

Grace Nkem [00:53:19]:
Sorry for what I said about Isaiah. Sorry for quoting Isaiah Banks. Banks.

Raphael Harry [00:53:22]:
Like like

Grace Nkem [00:53:22]:
I said Elon Musk has pig skin and smells. Oh,

Raphael Harry [00:53:25]:
no. No.

Grace Nkem [00:53:25]:
No. So

Raphael Harry [00:53:26]:
well, I I don't Oh,

Grace Nkem [00:53:27]:
did I say that?

Raphael Harry [00:53:27]:
I don't you have said allegedly. Not allegedly. Allegedly. Yeah. The views No.

Grace Nkem [00:53:31]:
No. Isaiah did say that. Not even allegedly.

Raphael Harry [00:53:33]:
Well, the views of, the views of Grace and Kim are the views of Grace and Kim are the views of white label American. Add

Grace Nkem [00:53:42]:
that too. Right. Yeah. I'm just I'm just here talking.

Raphael Harry [00:53:44]:
I I I don't want that.

Grace Nkem [00:53:45]:
I'm shooting myself in the I

Raphael Harry [00:53:47]:
don't want that some African prince trying to come sue me too. But he still is an African priest.

Grace Nkem [00:53:50]:
Well, he didn't sue Azalea. All I did was quote her.

Raphael Harry [00:53:53]:
Yeah. But

Grace Nkem [00:53:53]:
So, no.

Raphael Harry [00:53:54]:
He still is South African priest. Like, that that's the article on myself.

Grace Nkem [00:53:57]:
Well, I'm a Nigerian prince. So

Raphael Harry [00:53:59]:
Well yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:54:00]:
Yeah. That's right.

Raphael Harry [00:54:00]:
My my my my

Grace Nkem [00:54:02]:
Check your emails, please.

Raphael Harry [00:54:03]:
Yeah. Check the well, still send me the 100,000,000. Send me 10,000,000, and I'll get you a 100,000,000.

Grace Nkem [00:54:07]:
Yeah. Yeah. Please.

Raphael Harry [00:54:09]:
Yeah. Please. And then dollars to gold. I'll get you gold too.

Grace Nkem [00:54:13]:
I take Bitcoin, Cash App,

Raphael Harry [00:54:15]:
Venmo. Just give me the dollars. I I will send you Bitcoins, preferably, in the future. So, I I know I have to wrap up. You know, this is what happens when I'm talking to a foreign person. Forget about time. But don't worry. We'll we'll we'll bring you back again.

Raphael Harry [00:54:32]:
We'll definitely have to bring you back again. Organized.

Grace Nkem [00:54:35]:
More normal. I'm just, like, super caffeinated. I just had a big plate of pasta at home. Like, you know, I'm really, like

Raphael Harry [00:54:42]:
But before I let you go, do you have any future projects coming up that you'd like to share with the audience?

Grace Nkem [00:54:52]:
I hate this oh, yeah. I'm curating a a show at u for work. I'm curating a ceramics show at USM, a furniture store in SoHo that has, kind of like a gallery type vibe and space in there. So I'm gonna have a bunch of contemporary ceramic sculpture in there.

Raphael Harry [00:55:11]:
Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:55:12]:
And I'm working on putting together, and that's going to happen in late March. But I don't, haven't sorry. Late May. But I don't have an exact date Alright. Yet. But that's the only kind of interesting thing I'm doing. I need to really apply to open calls and painting shows.

Raphael Harry [00:55:24]:
Hey. We we we need to get you back in the studio before that happens, and then you give us more information. I'll let you know. I'll be Even if you don't have the opportunity to come in into the studio before then, you still send me a flyer at least. And, I'll share.

Grace Nkem [00:55:39]:
Last time I was, like, Amir went on his rant about, like, the Virgin Mary and Catholicism. And I was like, oh my god, Amir. You need to learn how to have, like, a filter. But now I'm, like, looking at myself, and I'm like, Grace, you need to learn how to have a filter.

Raphael Harry [00:55:51]:
Wow. Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:55:52]:
But you know what? Controversy, that means views. That means clicks. Yeah. No press is bad press.

Raphael Harry [00:56:01]:
I've leaned in. Oh, man. One question I didn't get to ask you. I I I would try and I think I would let me see. Okay. I'll ask you 2 questions.

Grace Nkem [00:56:11]:
Alright.

Raphael Harry [00:56:11]:
One will be this. With the prevalence of digitalization

Grace Nkem [00:56:17]:
Yes.

Raphael Harry [00:56:17]:
How do you balance traditional artistic techniques with digital tools?

Grace Nkem [00:56:22]:
Oh, I don't. The only time I use digital tools is if I take a photo of my painting on a wall, and the walls in my house are kind of ugly. So I clean them up in Photoshop. But I don't touch the painting with the Photoshop, and I don't make digital art.

Raphael Harry [00:56:36]:
Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:56:36]:
So I don't really I guess I'm an I'm very, when it comes to oil painting, very traditional. Like, it's a physical painting. I'm making it physically with my hands. I'm mixing paint on a palette. I've got my turpentine and my paint thinner and, extremely flammable apartment I'm living in. Oh. But, it's like paint thinner and oil everywhere. But, yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:56:59]:
So there's not much balance there for me. Sometimes, when I I mean, sometimes when I post things, I'll use the Instagram edit things to change the color of the paper. Mhmm. But, no, I'm not really a digital artist. I kind of had a I I enjoy graphic design, but that's more like something I'd have to do for work. But and but that said, when I do paint, a lot of what I'm painting is references to the digital world, the digital interfaces or digital screens. So I guess maybe it strikes instead of him translating that, the kind of visual language of digital interfaces sometimes onto a physical surface and making it, you know, with, pigment and a brush. But, yeah, I guess that's about I don't yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:57:53]:
I just don't, actually use, digital tools in the making process. So So So it's more of like a inspiration in in my head because I am interested in digitization even if it doesn't physically enter my work. It's more like the visual motifs I'm using. Mhmm. Yeah. Or the I my it in it impacts, because the a screen is a visual arrangement of information

Raphael Harry [00:58:19]:
Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:58:20]:
On a flat surface, and I think that that's where the biggest influence comes from. So The screen, the space where every image exists at once. The screen.

Raphael Harry [00:58:31]:
So quickly, just like a one minute Mhmm. If you can if you don't mind, just a one minute answer. How do you feel about the whole AI Oh. In the art space?

Grace Nkem [00:58:42]:
If you could just give us a shot. I actually feel great about it. I think that well, I'm a painter, so I'm speaking from my own perspective as a painter. I'm very sorry if you're, like, a digital artist who relies

Raphael Harry [00:58:52]:
on Views of Grace and Kem are the views of Grace and Kem.

Grace Nkem [00:58:55]:
Yeah. If you're a digital artist who relies on commissions because you draw porn of furries and now people can have an AI make it for free, That's a you problem, not a me problem. Okay. As a painter, I think people are worried that it's, like, a threat to art. But I think that AI threatens painting as much as conceptual sculpture or performance art threatens painting. It's just a completely different medium. Mhmm. And people are gonna find ways to use it that are interesting.

Grace Nkem [00:59:20]:
So far, actually, the majority of the images that AI has been used to make are porn. But Hey. If people

Raphael Harry [00:59:27]:
people got simple minds.

Grace Nkem [00:59:28]:
People yeah. People do what they want. Eventually, someone's gonna hack it and think of something very interesting to do with it. Like, someone's gonna have a breakthrough. Actually, my favorite, piece of clothing is a blazer from Acne Studios with AI generated nude bodies on it by Robbie. I'll show you a photo of this for you. I think you'll like it. By, an artist named Robbie Barat.

Grace Nkem [00:59:48]:
But it's I literally I found it on The RealReal, like, super cheap. And it's a double XL men's blazer. It's huge. It looks like a coat on me. Oh,

Raphael Harry [00:59:56]:
okay. I wasn't expecting that.

Grace Nkem [00:59:59]:
Alright. But I don't think, AI is gonna, like, is going to be the crazy revolutionary I mean, I don't think it's gonna threaten art art very much, but I do think that it's going to change how, animation happens, how a lot of digital art happens. It's gonna mess up it's gonna change, especially, like, things like Chad GBT. I think they will get better. It's gonna change storytelling. And maybe this is me being cynical, but I feel like we're gonna get to a point where, like, a lot of people are consuming AI generated images and animated content and video content and music and stories. But there's always gonna be like it's gonna be kind of like, food made out of bugs. Right? Like, the or that movie Soylent Green.

Grace Nkem [01:00:46]:
Is it what I'm talking about?

Raphael Harry [01:00:47]:
I don't think I saw it.

Grace Nkem [01:00:48]:
Green. It's like it's like a future dystopia where there's, like, no food and people are fed these, like, energy bar things

Raphael Harry [01:00:56]:
with Soylent Green. And then

Grace Nkem [01:00:57]:
they find out that Soylent Green is made out of human bodies. Oh. That's the most But, like, it's I I have this but then in the movie, the rich people still manage to get, like, strawberry jam and beef. Right? I think it's gonna be the same thing with, like, the poor people get AI entertainment, AI content, AI images, hamburgers made out of bugs, live in a pod, rent a house. And then but rich people are gonna still can, like, collect, Rothkos and Titians, and they're still gonna eat beef, And they're still gonna listen to the harpsichord, and they're still gonna have theater and live music. And I think that AI is gonna just create, like, crappy content for the masses that's cheap. And I think that it's gonna bring the overall level of everything down by a lot. It's gonna make some really crappy mass produced stuff.

Grace Nkem [01:01:47]:
I don't think it's gonna threaten fine art in any sense, but I think it'll make the world a worse place in a different way. Interesting. Very pessimistic as you can tell.

Raphael Harry [01:01:56]:
Interesting.

Grace Nkem [01:01:56]:
But I don't feel like it's a threat to art or high culture per se. I think I think that people actually, like, who value but I do think that people who value, like, culture and storytelling and perhaps, like, have a beloved franchise or, like, really care about the quality of the things we have in our lives should be a little bit should be very actually suspicious of just, like, how easily it can produce garbage so that you can, like, come home and, like, numb your brain with Netflix because you hate your job. And it's all gonna be, like, AI generated plots on Netflix. And yeah. Be careful, guys. It's bleak out there.

Raphael Harry [01:02:38]:
Can't thank you enough for being on the podcast.

Grace Nkem [01:02:40]:
I hope that was a worthwhile episode and not just me being crazy. But you know what? I'm leaning in. I'm leaning into being crazy. I'm gonna be honest about who I am. Bananas.

Raphael Harry [01:02:50]:
Oh, love. Final question. What's the final word that you like to well, yeah, let me use final word that you like to leave the audience with. It's your moment.

Grace Nkem [01:03:03]:
I think that everybody should, slow down and take a break, and embrace their like, look at the beauty in life. Embrace the people around you. No more hustling. No more grinding. Life is precious, and you should take time to rest and be with your loved rest. That's the thing I'm thinking a lot about recently, because I'm like, I don't wanna burn out. You know? I had a burn out phase in, like, 2021 where I burnt out really bad. And I'm, like, thinking a lot about life.

Grace Nkem [01:03:33]:
And I'm like, okay. A lot of work is gonna have to go into this if you wanna, like, actually have a successful career as an artist. And I'm like, don't burn out. Don't burn out. Don't it's okay to move slowly. What's that the thing about the rabbit and the toad? I mean, the turtle.

Raphael Harry [01:03:46]:
Yeah. I was like, I

Grace Nkem [01:03:47]:
don't know. Just moves slowly, but he gets there. That's Oh.

Raphael Harry [01:03:50]:
Very much Yeah. Yeah.

Grace Nkem [01:03:51]:
Yeah. The race. I'm like, the thing about the rabbit and the turtle.

Raphael Harry [01:03:54]:
I was like, yeah. I'm I'm I'm yeah. I I don't know that or that story that, yeah. Yeah. I thought I might.

Grace Nkem [01:04:00]:
I'm, embracing the turtles' ethos. Slow and steady wins the race, baby.

Raphael Harry [01:04:07]:
Alright. Awesome. That's great words of, wisdom to live by. And once again, for coming on the show. Please, let the people know where they can find you.

Grace Nkem [01:04:20]:
Oh, you can find me,. I don't have a website yet, but I'm on Instagram. It's grcnkm.

Raphael Harry [01:04:30]:
Alright. And I will have that in the show notes. You can follow Grace and Kim and stay in touch with her upcoming projects. And please support her work. And, yes, stay awesome. Keep the love coming in. Share with your friends. As the greatest

Grace Nkem [01:04:45]:
and sound. Embrace yourselves, people.

Raphael Harry [01:04:49]:
Embrace yourselves.

Grace Nkem [01:04:50]:
Don't have a filter. First thing that comes into your head, just say it out loud.

Raphael Harry [01:04:55]:
Thank you for the privilege of your company.

Grace Nkem [01:04:56]:
Thank you for having me on the show, Rafael. I hope I wasn't too annoyed.

Raphael Harry [01:05:01]:
See you at the next episode. Thanks for listening to White Label American. If you enjoy the show, please give a 5-star review on your favorite podcast app. You can follow the show on all social media platforms. Visit the White Label American website for links, donations, episodes, feedback, guests, merch, and newsletter. Don't forget to download the free White Label American app on the Google Play Store and Apple coming soon. Thank you for the privilege of your company.