Building a Personal Board of Directors: The Power of a Supportive Network with Lollie-Ramirez-Bennett

Deneen L. Garrett:00:04 02:44
Welcome to season two of an intimate conversation with women of color. This podcast is a platform for women of color to use our voices. As women of color, we don't always have a platform to use our voices. This podcast is such a platform for women of color, LGBTQ plus, and allies. I am your host, Denine L. Garrett. Welcome to another episode of an intimate conversation with women of color. Today's guest is Lali Ramirez Bennett. Lali is the CEO of Women of AT&T, which is an employee resource group. So sit back or keep it moving and get ready for today's episode. I am your guest, Deneen L. Garrett. And as always, continue to listen, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already done so, and share. Hey, some of you may be like me. I was in search of the perfect platform for my podcast and stumbled across Anchor by listening to my sister's podcast. If you haven't heard about Anchor, it's the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me tell you more about it. First of all, it's free. Yes, free. They have creation tools that allow you to record and edit your podcast right from your phone or computer. Anchor will also distribute your podcast for you. So you don't have to deal with getting connected to Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and many more because Anchor does it for you. You can also make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. Anchor has everything you need to make a podcast in one place. How convenient. Download the free Anchor app or go to anchor.fm to get started. Trust me, you will not be sorry. Lali, hi, and welcome to an intimate conversation with women of color. How are you? Just fine, Janine. Thank you so much for the invite. Oh, you're absolutely welcome. I greatly appreciate you saying yes. So I want to introduce today's guest. She is Lolly Ramirez Bennett. Lolly is the CEO of Women of AT&T National. Women of AT&T is an employee resource group. Lolly, tell us more about you. Absolutely.

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:02:45 03:23 So I am located in Houston, Texas. I have been an employee of AT&T for 35 years. And I like to say I've had the benefit of having dual careers because for the past 30 years, I've also been a member and a leader in our employee resource groups, which really helped me as well as other people understand how the different cultures and groups can fit into just the general population and really help teach each other about advocating and being an ally for each other.

Deneen L. Garrett:03:25 04:18 That's wonderful and thank you so much for sharing and that's actually how we met. So, Anna Garcia, who was a friend of both of ours as your little sister as well as the national leader president of. the Latinx Employee Resource Group. She had invited me to Houston earlier last year to attend an event that you were hosting, a woman of AT&T was hosting, and so we met face-to-face. And we may have seen each other casually before, but that's when we really connected and built our relationship from there. So I like to share how I know my guests and that's how we know each other. And that was a great trip. So I am so happy that you all hosted that event and invited me.

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:04:19 04:50 I'm glad you were able to join us. And I think one of the things that I always tell people is you really have to make yourself open and available to meeting other people. You never know how they will enrich your life and how you can, you know, build a new relationship with them. And I think that in the short time that you and I have known each other, I certainly learned so much from you. And I hope that I've been able to contribute a little bit to your life and your mission. So I definitely encourage that at any time.

Deneen L. Garrett:04:51 05:01 Absolutely, and, you know, and you saying, yes, to being on the podcast is just an extension of that. And I have to also add that was my last trip before cobit shut it all down.

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:05:02 05:09 That was a, yeah, I got, we got a big 1 in before the, before we got shut down. Right? Because he's a nice event.

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:05:10 05:37 And it was one of my first that I got to host as the national CEO for Women of AT&T. And just for the sense of the group, our organization, Women of AT&T, represents roughly about 20,000 members today. And it does have both men and women members, as well as retirees. So it's a very big organization.

Deneen L. Garrett:05:38 06:01 All right, yeah, it's huge. And, you know, I was off on my numbers. I'm like, I'm just going by memory and, you know, somebody's, and when I was thinking of the numbers, but so Lolly, you know, you're doing a lot of work with women, right? And so the organization is, it's for all women, men are able to join as well. But why is it important for women of color to have a platform to use their voices?

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:06:02 09:44 You know, this became very obvious to me a few years ago when I was, the CEO for the Houston chapter. I was asked to participate in an event where we were able to sit in front of some high performing students that came from some of the underserved communities. And we really wanted to put some role models in front of them. And the panel in this particular instance, we talked a little bit ourselves about what we'd done, but really they had already done their research on who we were and they had a chance to ask questions. And I'll never forget the moment, this beautiful young girl, I mean, sitting right up front came in, she was ready, she was dressed to the tee and just a beautiful young black girl. and writing down notes of everything and anything. You could just tell this young girl is going to be, young woman is going to be something in her life. And her question to me was, as a woman of color, how does it feel to be able to have achieved this role? Mind you, I was a chapter, a local chapter CEO, not the national one, but for her, that was already something that was significant. And how did I want to encourage women like her? to move forward. And I have to be honest with you, Deneen. Having grown up predominantly in Texas in a very diverse community, I guess sometimes we know the labels that are put on us, but sometimes you can be oblivious to them. And I think that I knew I was Mexican. I knew that I was a woman, but I don't know if I necessarily threw myself into the category of woman of color, and how there was something that I had not even touched. So when she asked the question, and just very eloquently, I stopped for a second and thought, oh my goodness, here's this young woman of maybe 16, 17 years old, and already has such a amazing view of where we're going. And it made me stop and say, you know, there is something that I need to go and understand, that no matter what, and quite honestly, I know most people, even when you get a chance to see my pictures, you really don't know if I'm Mexican-American, if I'm of Indian descent or, you know, what necessarily my culture is, right? So I can cover quite a bit of different bases. And so you have to know that you have to be a voice for those young women that come behind us, that we made their life a little bit easier because of the things that we went through, that we opened doors for them, that we fought to get through. And to not do that is doing a complete injustice to yourself as well as to our future generations. Because you fought the fight already. It's easier for others.

Deneen L. Garrett:09:46 10:09 That's beautiful. So she asked the question that stopped you because you hadn't gone through life as a woman of color, you knew you were, or, you know, you knew that there were some differences about yourself, but that's not how you walk through the world. And so when she asked you that question, you recognize how important it was for you to embrace that part of you so that you can just continue to help others. Absolutely.

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:10:10 10:28 And yes, without question, I am a representative of that title. Proudly, actually. It's important that we understand who we are and we're proud of who we are, regardless of who we are.

Deneen L. Garrett:10:29 11:00 Yes, and that's great. It's great that you had that moment. And so here she's asking you a question and she didn't realize, I'm sure she doesn't even know that what she did for you was so vital. It was so vital for so many others because you are in a position to impact. Right, and so, and to, you know, and by you embracing all of you, then it's able to make more women, you know, better, or it's able to, you know, you're able to be an example to even more women. Very much so.

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:11:01 11:48 Yeah. You know, one of the things that I always tell our members is, you know, when you go out and you volunteer in the community, you kind of to the point of making sure that you make yourself accessible to others. You never know how often it is that you will learn from even those young people. They're relevant. You become knowledgeable about what's out there today. I think that was probably a good four or five years ago. And I think that, you know, still very prevalent in my mind. And it's something that I, I just, I know she's going to do something big, just the way she was, but she, yeah, that's the new too.

Deneen L. Garrett:11:50 12:33 Yeah, no, that's that's beautiful. I love that moment. I love it. I absolutely love it. Because you know, you had a privilege, you still have a privilege. And so that probably you were able to really recognize that. And again, it was a decision. What do I do with this? Do I just continue living life as I was? Or do I actually say, Well, okay, no, let me change some things. And again, to be able to impact more people. And so now, You are the CEO of an organization, and as you said, you have 20,000 members. That's huge. That's huge. So in addition to, you know, those hosting events, how are you using your voice specifically for women of color?

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:12:34 16:07 I do a lot of events and trying to bring in and reach out to the community where we can, but I also have found that there's multi levels of impact that you can make. So, we may be talking to teachers. or rather to students, right, in a group as a mentoring program or whatever. But there's always teachers in the room. Many times those teachers need that same kind of mentoring to help them continue to go forward. We unfortunately sometimes have a very limited view. And so allowing somebody that has a different perspective can very quickly adjust our journey and really make it a lot more efficient than you can. So for me, I think that's been one of the probably one of the most impactful places I have been able to make a difference is with the teachers, with the leaders of the nonprofit groups, with kind of a little bit of a different, not just the students, but the women themselves. I gotta tell you, one of the things that really surprises me is how much women of color have to some degree accepted to take a backseat. How much we lack in confidence because we were taught to not be loud. And just we don't speak up. And so I think that just recently, as a matter of fact, again, I was working with a project that we're doing with some students that we want to do a junior board for. And one of the young ladies that is joining me in the effort and in planning it, she actually works as a finance manager for an industrial corporation here in Houston, very well-educated, and she is from Nepal. And she started talking to me, and then she asked if she could schedule some personal one-on-one time with me in terms of helping mentor her. Again, I'm one that really enjoys learning about new places and new cultures and understanding the different challenges that we have as women across the world. And so I quickly joined in with her and it's amazing. Yes, there's going to be some differences amongst the different cultures, but overall we have very similar traits in terms of the things that we have accepted. And know that sometimes when we choose to do something different than what is the norm in our culture, we kind of think that we're the only ones to do it. So we kind of stay in our corner and don't tell everybody else about it. And so I think that one of the things that is very important when it comes to addressing women of color is being upfront and encouraging them to speak up. to take a stand, get educated on the topics that you're learning about, but you have every right to stand right next to everybody else. And it may not feel comfortable at first, but before you know it, you'll be a natural at it.

Deneen L. Garrett:16:09 16:38 Yeah, I like that. And also, what you were saying with women and women of color in particular, we do stand back a lot of times. We don't speak up. A conversation that lots of people have often is about how going for a new job. Like with women, they're like, oh, they expect for you to have these 10 qualifications. Oh, I don't have them. So I'm not going to go for it. Whereas a man, he's like, oh, I have one.

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:16:39 16:40 Let's run.

Deneen L. Garrett:16:41 17:44 Right. Like, you know, he's not even thinking about it. You know, he probably didn't even look at the qualifications, you know, men that they'll just go ahead and they'll go for it. And so women don't necessarily have that. Right. More and more. We're getting there. Right. We're definitely getting there. And that is, you know, go for it. Right. You want that thing. You feel you can do it. You feel that you have the qualifications and speak to that, but go for it, you know, because the only thing they can do is say no. You know, but the experience of, you know, 1, you know, you get to the interview process, you're able to, you know, sell yourself and it could be the thing that you can walk away with is maybe the worst case scenario or, you know, is that. Okay, no, you didn't get the job, but it was an exposure. It was it was practice. It was an experience. Now that person knows you and knows something about you and they, you know, something else may come up in the company and they think of you or something could even happen externally to where is your top of mind because they had exposure to you. But if you never apply, you would have never been in that seat to receive that exposure.

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:17:45 19:22 Exactly, exactly. And that was the conversation that I had with this young lady. She was starting to look for alternate jobs, just, you know, as some local or some things were going on with her business that she worked for. And next thing you know, she says, well, I'm going to wait till June or July because, you know, I'm in virtual teaching with my daughters. I need to be at home. I need to do this and I need to do that. And I'm like, you know, you don't, you're basically cutting yourself out of the picture before knowing that they might be willing to let you work from home. I know of plenty of businesses that are hiring brand new people and letting them train from home. And so she's like, you know, I hadn't thought about that. And I said, and the other thing I'm going to tell you is having hired plenty of people throughout my years, it doesn't always happen very quickly. they might get the resumes in and then they don't allow any more to come in. But by the time that I sit down and look at them, I start interviewing, I may do two or three interviews with the candidates. By the time I get everything done, it may be me. And at that point, you've got somebody to help you. But again, women tend to say, oh no, I can't do it all. So I can't do it. So needless to say, she was getting ready to start searching now. So again, it's just know your worth, know what you're capable of, and be proud and stand up and say what you can do.

Deneen L. Garrett:19:24 20:00 Yeah, and that kind of touches to this as well as how there are women of color who do not recognize the power of their voices. And so for me, when I say using your voice, I mean, it could be speaking, it could be writing, acting, however you choose to express yourself is my definition of using your voice. So what would you like to tell these women who don't recognize the power of their voices? What would you tell them to encourage them to use their voices? So other than knowing your worth and speaking up and standing out, what are some other things you would suggest?

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:20:01 22:37 I think that you have to follow your heart and heart or instinct in knowing what's right for you. I used to be, I still remember the very first time I had to speak and being in Houston, guess where I had to go speak at? It was at the, I was addressing scientists at NASA. of all things, but I didn't have money, so it was a nice thing at least. But, you know, the thing is, is that when you learn to get comfortable in your own skin and learn what you're passionate about, it becomes very second nature to be able to use your voice. if you, you know, if you like to, if you like to dance, or you like theater, it's maybe, you know, maybe you take a moment to write something that is more of, or choreograph something that represents your background and the heritage, because trust me, there's plenty of other people that are going through the same things that you went through. And you find your voice in finding those things that you can speak to. with conviction and that you have knowledge in. So, if you ask me to speak today, there's a whole multitude of things I could probably speak on, but part of what I do very well on, having lost my parents at a young age, I can talk very well about grief. and overcoming grief or resiliency. Having been an advocate for women for years, I can talk a lot about. gender inequality or, you know, different gender traits. So again, it's when you know what matters to you, it's easier to do that. And then before you know it, you can shift to other things by then, because then all you need is to, you know, get a little bit of touch up on the subject. And before you know it, you can speak to, heck, he told me I needed to talk to you about a new model, a new model of vehicle that's coming out or something. All I need is five minutes to understand what it is and I can work through it because we have plenty of opinions and they matter. And it's only an opinion.

Deneen L. Garrett:22:39 23:50 Yeah. And you know what? I've heard some people, you know, like speakers who, you know, they like, yeah, I have like one subject matter that I speak on. You know, and so, regardless of who I'm talking to, or, or make myself available to have those conversations, but it's like, 1 thing that, you know, I perfected that. Right? I know any and everything about that particular subject that I'm going to talk about. And so that's what the, you know, what you're saying is find that 1 subject. You know, build start there, get comfortable. It's 2nd nature. And then add to it right now, you can kind of pivot over. Now, let me talk to you, talk about something that's similar to that, or even it could be totally dissimilar, but you've already got your feet wet, right? You've already gotten comfortable speaking about something. And so to be able to do it another time and about something different. You feel more comfortable. So, yeah, all of those things are were great pointers. So thank you for that. Welcome. So in memory of my sister, author and poet, Soul True, I want to encourage women of color to think about any of their deferred dreams and for them to act on it. Please share if you have ever had a dream deferred and what you've done about it.

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:23:51 26:26 You know, Deneen, for me, when it comes to dreams or goals, I'm a very much a realist. I think because of having lost my parents at a young age, I recognize that life throws us some hiccups, right? And so I may be thinking today that this is what I want to do, and it's a goal that I'd like to do. And then I find that two years down the road, I can't keep down that same path because some things have changed in my life. I'm not big on regrets, and I'm not good on saying I'm gonna put something on hold. If it is something that's important to me, I'm gonna pursue it. If it's not that important to me today, then I'm gonna question, is it really something that I want? But I think that, again, it goes back to understanding where you stand on life in general, and what are the things that are important to you? if I really wanted to pursue a particular position or I'll use the CEO position at the national basis. You know, I do run a lot of things by my husband whenever I make decisions. He is very big in supporting me and things, but I knew that was going to take a lot of extra time because My Women of AT&T job is a side job. I still have my regular job. And I have a lot of other community projects. I participate on several boards, different things of that nature. And so I run pretty busy. And I think that it's important for me to validate with him that he is, you know, I mean, part of our marriage and partnership is that I count on him in terms of of his opinions as well. And so when I thought about running for this office, I could say, well, I have this other thing, I have this other thing, I have this other thing. I really had to stop and say, this is the time for me doing what I want to do. And if I'm going to pursue this, this is how I'm going to pursue it. If I win this job or this position, then I'm going to make sure that the other things become less of a priority because they're not the things that I wanted or they're not for me. Now, there's a couple of roles that I still kept because they're important to me. But overall, I've become better at saying no to other things so that I can be sure that I am able to do the things that I want to do.

Deneen L. Garrett:26:27 27:12 Yeah, yeah, and that's important. And I think a lot of stuff, because you've kind of said it in several ways and several different instances, and really what it boils down to is getting to know yourself, getting to know you, tapping in and figuring, well, what's important to me? What do I really want out of life, right? And I think that that's so hard for so many people to actually, that self-reflection and like, well, what is it that I want, right? We're constantly just moving through life and not necessarily stopping and saying, what do I want? What makes me feel good? And I think we need to do more of that. And it sounds like you're not necessarily deferring anything. You're focused more so on, well, what's a value today?

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:27:12 27:13 Exactly.

Deneen L. Garrett:27:13 27:34 What's most important today? And so that's a great perspective and a great way to approach things. So January is Mentoring Month. And you've already talked about just A little piece of mentoring right with the woman from Nepal. So share your best mentoring moment as a mentee mentor and or both.

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:27:36 32:17 You know, um, One of my best moments has been, again, so from an AT&T perspective, I'm an analyst, I'm a strategist, and I do that so that I can make sure that we achieve the results we want, right? So part of my world, I'm always looking, how can I maximize my efforts? If I can help five people, And then that's the goal. And then I come out and help 10 people even better, right? With two teachers in the room, I got to help the teachers as well as the students even better. So I think one of my best moments, and I just shared this recently on Facebook, I was at a mentoring program that we did at an inner city high school here in Houston. And it was a fairly quick event, and I got pretty busy with talking to the students as well as to the mentors that I had invited to join me. And I had a chance to quickly say hello to the teachers, but didn't get a chance to talk to them much. And so a couple of days later, I was at another event I had been invited to. And I saw this young man and he looked familiar, but I couldn't place him. And so after I was finished speaking, he came up to me and he said, you know, I don't know if you remember me. He says, but I was one of the teachers at the Houston program that you had last week. And I said, oh, that's where you are from. And so he asked me if I would, that he had some things that he had in his life and he really had resonated with what I spoke to. And if I would mind spending a little bit of time with him, we could go have lunch and just talk. And so I said, you know, sure, why not? And as we started to talk, I found out that this young man was a dreamer who had gone to college at the University of Houston and gotten his degree. and was now teaching at the school he had first come into. He moved to the United States at the age of 14. And so he was doing very well teaching. You could tell his students loved him. I did notice that. But he said he had bigger aspirations, but he didn't know how to move forward with it. You know, most people had told him, well, you know, you've done really well for a dreamer. Why do you want more? Why do you want to even push more? And so, you know, I have, again, a lot of times I don't know everything about all the different subjects, but I knew of the Dreamer Act. I did not know about how they could, you know, continue to go to college and get funded for school or, you know, that they could get jobs afterwards and work until this is there. So I got to learn some things from him and I just listened to him and we talked. And turned out he wanted to be a motivational speaker. He had already written a book to help in school. And so before you know it, this young man and I spent a lot of time together just chatting. It was very natural. And I learned so much from him. And he was ready to quit his school. And I said, you know, well, let me teach him, you know, because he really wanted to pursue this full time. And I said, so how much money do you have saved up? summer's a couple months away, and if I remember correctly as a teacher, I think they get paid for summer if you work through the rest of the year. He says, yeah. And I said, so why wouldn't you wait till after summer? No, because I hadn't thought of that. And I said, well, let's. So I'll cut the short story to just simply say that by September, when he did resign from his teaching, he had already sold a $300,000 contract on his book with the school district. And again, not having had anybody to kind of talk those things through, he really didn't think of him. He didn't know to think of him, but he's phenomenal. He's done very well with his program. He is also now has a nonprofit and Now he helps me whenever we talk to students. He's one of the best speakers that I can bring in. And for us, Samuels, every time we bring him in, the survey results are phenomenal. So talk about an ability to get more and beyond more, right?

Deneen L. Garrett:32:19 33:13 That, you know, that's beautiful. And I'm hoping, and one of the first things you said is don't listen to those people, right? Because those are the folks that you don't need in your corner. Those are the people who are like, oh, just be happy with that. Oh, no. We're not living just to be happy with something. Absolutely not. So I'm glad he had you to open his mind and to ask those questions that he didn't think to ask. So very good. Very amazing story. Thank you for sharing. Absolutely. So I want to kind of now, you know, pivot and kind of talk about this, this thing. And it's something that, you know, I'm looking for for myself, but I'm, you know, don't really quite know exactly. Well, what is it? You know, of course, you can ask people as far as getting them to be that, but what is it? What, what do you expect for, you know, a personal board of directors?

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:33:15 35:44 You know, I hadn't really heard of a personal board of directors, I guess, because of my CEO role, I know that I, you know, I know what a board of directors does and how they play in. I also participate on several advisory boards. So I know how I fit in to help as an advisor on a board to help run a business. So I'm going to tell you that my, immediate thought of when I hear a personal board of directors is having a group of trusted confidants that help you and support you to achieve the goals and keep you on track and hold you accountable to those personal goals that you have. That would be my interpretation of a personal board of directors. Um, I'm not sure if that is the case or not, but you know, if that's, that is it, although I never called people, I'm going to tell you that without question, um, as I've gotten older. I have several boards. I have several people that I bounce ideas off of, that I help. It's a mutual thing. I can't really say that one of us has a higher level. Maybe I have a higher level when it comes to my life, but I certainly will contribute back to their life as well. And it's people that I know can push me forward regardless of whether I want to give up or not. And one thing that I would say when it comes to this, And again, working with women of AT&T, I've had a chance to learn to lead. Our board of directors is 17 people strong. And so you do have some different perspectives. But I think the one thing that has made me very successful with that has been the fact that I really try to listen to the different opinions. Because if I go in and don't listen, I run the risk of missing something very big. And again, working together for a common goal makes it very easy to know that you're all on the same page.

Deneen L. Garrett:35:46 36:30 Yeah. Yes. And that's definitely important. So, you know, and just thinking about the personal board of directors and thinking of the relationships that you have that you would say, well, that closely aligns with a personal board of director. Did you have a name for those people? So those people, you know, that you just kind of described, you know, the role that they play in your life and vice versa. Did you ever put a name to it or did you just look at them as friends, right? So I'm thinking it's the board, personal board of directors is some people may call it their tribe, you know, others call it the sisterhood and, you know, we're, you know, we're like in a sisterhood. So, you know, I guess it could be called something else, but had you ever even thought about a name for those people that you rely on?

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:36:30 39:05 Those were very critical for me. I think of them as tribes, so definitely without question. And I usually refer to them as my sisters. That to me, you know, I have a lot in the ERG, the employee resource group arena, where we are very mission driven and work together on some things. And these are the people that in my mind, I have escalated from beyond just being a friend or an acquaintance. They are people that I trust. You mentioned how you met me, my friend Ana Garcia. I think of her as my little sister. And there's no question that I know where we both stand with each other. But that relationship had to develop and it had to be very, you know, very much an open mic situation where whatever it was, we would talk through it. And we went from, to some degree, people kind of are surprised at the relationship that we share, but because in most cases, one would see us more like competitors to some degree. We opted to do it differently. We decided that by working together, we could achieve so much more, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. She's a woman. She's she understands my concerns from a woman of AT&T. She runs Acemos. I'm a Hispanic Latina. I have the same passion for the things that she has and. She can sign me up for anything and just tell me what date I need to be there and I think and so those those are the people I will tell you that when I made the decision to run again last year for for the CEO position. I spoke to my husband, and once we had come to an agreement that I was going to do that, the next call I made was to Ana. And I said, Ana, I've made this decision, and I hope that you can support it. But the other thing that comes right behind that is that I want you to run for the national president of Hacemos. I want us to do this together. And as you know, she did, and we were able to get her elected. And so it's about not just having them be there for what you want, but making sure that you help them with what they need and want.

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:39:06 39:17 And push, yeah, we push each other. And yesterday I got a messenger from her to ask me, hey, you've got this on the calendar for the 29th?

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:39:17 39:52 I'm like, no, I don't, I have something else, right? I'm like, what are you talking about? Turned out, you know, because everybody has different lists, they ended up missing me on one of the big meetings with our AT&T CEO. and able to quickly act and get added to the list. And again, it's a matter of just watching out for each other. You know, she was out last week, wherever I needed to represent for her, she knows she can count on it. So that to me is a board of directors.

Deneen L. Garrett:39:53 40:26 Absolutely, I agree. And I love all of that. And I especially like that open mic, right? So you have to have people who you can have that open mic conversation, that back and forth and challenge one another and point out like, you know, maybe reconsider, you know, think of it differently. So I love everything that you've shared, you know, regarding the mentor. regarding the board of directors and just everything overall. So again, I do appreciate you for your time. And so as we wrap up, what would you like to leave our listeners with?

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:40:27 41:09 Denine, I think that, you know, as women, as women of color, I'm going to tell you to keep moving forward. Keep moving forward regardless. You really never know how high you can go if you don't try. next week we get to celebrate a historical inauguration with a woman, a woman of color taking office in our, you know, top ranked office, right? And did we, did we think that possibly, yeah, when, oh yeah, maybe there'll be a woman, but did we think that it would be a woman of color?

Deneen L. Garrett:41:10 41:12 Right, right.

Lollie Ramirez-Bennett:41:14 41:48 And I think that the thing is it's important for us to teach those young women coming behind us that they can do whatever it is they want. They need to decide what they want and go after it. And the last note I would say is be proud of who you are. There is such an advantage to be a woman, There's never been a better time to be a woman of color. Be happy, embrace it, make the best of it. And I wish success to everybody.

Deneen L. Garrett:41:50 43:23 I love that. All of that. You are absolutely right. So Lolly Ramirez Bennett, thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for being a guest on an intimate conversation with women of color. And I'll talk to you soon. Absolutely. Thank you again for the invitation. You're welcome. Goodbye. So an intimate conversation with women of color listeners. What did you think about today's conversation with Lali? She had a lot of knowledge to drop for us. And so I greatly appreciated that. As she mentioned, her role as a CEO is a side role. It's in addition to her normal job, but it's something that she fully embraces. And she leads over 20,000 members. And that's a diverse group of members. greatly enjoyed our conversation. She is a friend. She is a sister. We talked about the board of directors, which is, you know, of interest for me for 2021, building my personal board of directors. So she definitely, you know, provided some insight and an open mic is something that really stood out and resonated with me. So, you know, you can walk away with some information, with some nuggets on creating your own board of directors. because it does take a tribe. It takes a sisterhood for us to be better, to continue to elevate, and as Lali said, to keep moving forward.