Breaking Barriers: Pursuing Dreams Fearlessly with DeeDee Cummings

Deneen L. Garrett: 00:02 00:22 Hey hey hey everybody, welcome back to women of color and intimate conversation, as I said last time i'm doing things a little differently so let's see how you all like it. And let's just roll together so today's guest is author therapist attorney and mom dd cummings dd tell us more about you.
DeeDee Cummings: 00:24 01:16 Thanks so much for having me on. I'm so honored. I just found out that I'm going to be your second guest on YouTube. So I'm really excited about that. I live in Louisville, Kentucky, and I started off my career as a child protective service worker like more than two decades ago. And that kind of sent me on a spiral for my career today. It just evolved naturally. But I went from being a child protective service worker to going to law school at night. I became an attorney and I really didn't like fighting all the time because that's what lawyers do. So I ended up becoming a therapist so I could do the exact same types of things, but from more of a mending and a healing perspective. And then I started writing my stories as a way to cope with all the stress that I see. So that's me in a nutshell.

Deneen L. Garrett: 01:18 01:34 And you know what, I encounter so many people who are attorneys. They put in that work, got that law degree, passed the bar, and all the different things. Some didn't pass the bar, but they're still attorneys. And then they get to something else, right?

DeeDee Cummings: 01:34 02:19 Yes. While I was in law school, I met so many attorneys who, this is true story, would say, turn back. Yeah, I mean, being an attorney is just not a very happy field. And I really did go from being a child protective service worker to going to law school because I wanted to help people. And it's just such a messy profession to be able to help people. Being a lawyer is like, and going to court, it's like a necessary evil. People need lawyers and we need the court system But it just wasn't for me. So I'm not surprised at all that you've met many people who have a similar story.

Deneen L. Garrett: 02:20 03:04 Yeah. And you know what? And I love that you said it wasn't for you, because here's the thing. There's so many different professions that if you're not passionate about it, you shouldn't be in it. Right. And so I say diversity and inclusion. Right. That was the space that I was in. And I know people who are in it. And it's like, yeah, you're not in it because you're passionate about it. You're in it for other reasons. And same thing with education. If you're not passionate about educating, teaching, you shouldn't be in that. And so now we're going to add attorney to it. However, do you feel like, are you glad that you have the background as an attorney? Has it helped you in child protective services and or the other endeavors that you're involved in?

DeeDee Cummings: 03:04 05:27 100% because I, I used to have low self-esteem before I went to an HBCU. I went to an HBCU called Bennett college. And that just, I mean, Being in an environment where you know you belong and everything is geared towards you is very powerful for your mind. And so in four years, I did a whole lot of growing thanks to my HBCU Bennett College. And I really struggled with figuring out where my place was in the world, as many Black people do. as many people of color do because a lot of things are not centered around us. Yeah, there are lots of messages we get that we don't belong. So after coming out of the HBCU, I was looking for where I belong and where I felt like I belong the most was helping people who look like me. And that's why I went into child protection. But it was ugly there because children of color are often the ones who suffer the most and are much more likely to go into foster care much faster than any other background of children. So I'm saying all this to say that I ended up doing my own thing and working for myself, which has been the ultimate freedom. And I don't feel like if I had not had those opportunities from my HBCU, all of the growing I did as a child protective service worker, because that's a whole nother story. We could spend a whole hour just talking about that. And then going to law school, all of those things made me who I am today. And all of those were very important pieces along my journey in building my confidence. And I don't know if I hadn't gone to law school if I would have felt like I could write. Yeah. If I, you know, if I felt like my story could be told because in law school, you learn so much about how important your voice is and how important your arguments are. So yeah, law school definitely helps me every day, even though I don't practice law every day.

Deneen L. Garrett: 05:28 06:56 Yeah, absolutely. And same with the other people, right? Because, you know, when they're, you know, they're in something totally different. However, that, you know, background of going to law school has been so beneficial to them. So to those who are watching, and at some point just listening, there is value in whatever it is that you're doing. And it's okay for you to pivot from that, right? Yeah. And as Dede said, she's glad that she had those experiences, because everything came together to make her who she is today. And just to, you know, help her with what she's doing. So we're going to so this conversation, we're going to call this breaking barriers, pursuing your dreams fearlessly. And when I looked at your bio and the things that I pulled out, I said, oh, yeah, this is this is perfect for Dede. And I'm sure she has some things to to stay to speak to that and she's already kind of right already talked a little bit about and she's kind of emphasized how as black people as people of color things are not built for us right and people are seeing that people are seeing that i mean it's always been visible i think it's it's uh heavily visible right now so With your make a way media with your Louisville book festival and also being a professional dreamer let's talk about breaking those barriers and pursuing your dreams fearlessly what comes to mind for you.

DeeDee Cummings: 06:57 08:29 Oh man, so much comes to mind, so I'll try my best to focus. My mind is kind of like a 10 lane highway and I always have all these thoughts and I have to pick which lane I'm going to stay in. But I could tell you so many things about how I started calling myself a professional dreamer because that's what I feel like I am. And it's so powerful what you just said before about not being afraid to pivot because so many people, especially if you're in your early 20s, or you're about to go to college or you just got out of college or wherever you are at that early stage in your life. A lot of times, for some reason, we get these messages that you're going to be this one thing forever. And I just want people to know that you can continually evolve. And how I evolved was I kept seeing these areas where I would be the perfect fit. I kept seeing these things that needed to be addressed. Like when I was a child protective service worker and I got so passionate about black children coming into the system at such an alarming rate. And that's why I went to law school, so I could help with that. And then when I realized that that really wasn't what was for me, I became a therapist where I really do the same exact things that a lawyer does. I advocate for children. I solve complex problems. I help families figure out alternative routes to keep their families together and to make sure that they're mentally healthy and growing together. I do all the same things, but I do it from an angle that works for me so that I could keep my peace of mind and my mental health.

Deneen L. Garrett: 08:29 09:46 Yeah. And you know, and I want to kind of, I want to highlight that what you said, you're doing the same thing that you would have been doing as an attorney. And so that's something that I learned along my journey is to focus on the doing the thing that you want. Like me, you know, when I'm coaching as a dream lifestyle coach, You know, I'm talking about dream, you know, decide, design, and then drive towards making it happen. But in the dreaming, and then in the deciding, it's like, okay, get clear about what it is you want. What does that look like? Yes. What are some of the things that you're doing, the behaviors, you know, just sensory, all the things, what does that look like? Yes. And there's no name, right? You're not necessarily attaching a name or anything to it. So in this case, we're not attaching like a job title. We're focused on the thing, the doing, the behaviors, the action that you're doing in that thing. And then you can back into it because there's so many different ways that you can do the things that you love. It doesn't have to be this one thing. And often, like you were kind of saying, when we focus on that one thing, we get boxed in. And so to unbox ourselves, focus really on what you want your life to look like and then back into it.

DeeDee Cummings: 09:46 11:15 That's absolutely right. And one of the reasons why I call my company MakeAway has a lot to do with law school. Because in law school, I learned that there really is never a no. It's just how can you figure out how to get there? And so I call my company MakeAway because there were so many things that I wanted to do in life and people continually said, you know, how are you going to do that? Because we're really good as a people at questioning people's dreams because we can't see it. Instead of being like, wow, that sounds awesome. That's great. We often like slow people down who tell us about their dreams. How are you going to do that again? How are you going to make that happen? And so people would ask me and I would say, I'm going to make a way. Yeah, I'm going to do it. And that's another thing that law school taught me was you just have to figure out how to get in that space. And I do think that that's how I use my law degree every day. is my creative thinking. And that, if you're really going to be a dreamer, and you're really going to change your life and do something that is really important to you, and not just important to you, but for your family, it'll affect generations, you have to be dead set on making a way. Because whatever dream is on your mind, it's there for a reason. It came to you for a reason. And that's all the evidence you need that it can happen.

Deneen L. Garrett: 11:15 12:24 Absolutely not. Right there. That's a mouthful. That's a mic drop. I think about this meme that I see and it's today, you know, basically that dream was given to you. Like God told you it wasn't a conference call. You know, other people don't, you know, it was so other people, they don't need to understand it. And often not going to understand it because people are coming from when they respond, they're coming from where they are in life. And so that's why sometimes people say don't share with other people. It's totally, you know, I share with people and keep it moving because I'm clear about what it is that I want to do. And I don't really let people kind of deter me. Like I will listen to what is being said and then I'll evaluate. what I want to do with that information. Right. But it goes back to, like I said, you need to find out where you want, you know, where you want to end up and get clear about that. And then you can stay steadfast in it. And to your point, make a way to make it happen for yourself.

DeeDee Cummings: 12:24 13:23 And I love that that that same meme you're talking about where they say God was talking to you. It wasn't a conference call. You have to really get in tune with your core and your center and really align with your message. You know, we're so busy now. Turn off stuff. Turn off. I know you're watching us on YouTube right now. Don't turn this off. But we're inspirational. And we're telling you how to make your dream happen. But you can't just walk around all the time on TikTok or Instagram. You can't have all that just flooding your mind all the time. You've got to find some space in the day. Limit your social media. And then watch inspirational podcasts and YouTube channels like yours. And then meditate. And don't invite all of these people into your brain space because that all takes up space and it clutters your mind. So if you don't really make your dream come true, you've got to focus and you've got to remove clutter. And sometimes clutter can be people.

Deneen L. Garrett: 13:23 16:11 Right. Absolutely. They can be people. And so it's interesting that you're saying everything you're saying for a couple of reasons. One, you had asked how long had I been podcasting and I told you I started. It's been four years. And so when I started, I was getting all this information about podcasts coming from all different places right and I said, you know what this is too much is cluttering my mind I came across a woman Danielle to see her Corbett, who had started WC podcasters. And I'm like, you know what, blocking everybody else off and I'm only listening to her. And so really I have followed her for like the four plus years. Wow. Yeah. And it makes a difference because everybody has an opinion and it's not that, you know, the other information wasn't valuable. However, she's a black woman. I wanted to hear from her and how she, how she did. how she's doing it, what she recommends. And she was like my Bible, my podcast Bible and still is to this day. Amazing. Yeah. And then with the pause, so we're talking about that. And I did take a two month social media pause last year to be more present. You know, I wanted to be more present. I, you know, I'm, I'm one of those ones who was constantly, and still am, constantly on social media. So I'm like checking LinkedIn, I'm checking, today is LinkedIn, it's Instagram, it's Facebook. So it is less than before, right? But still I had to pause that. And so now I'm about to take another LinkedIn pause and here's what I had to consider. You talked about social media, we're talking about social media. What I had to consider is going back to what I said is, what am I trying to do or what am I doing in life? What is my focus? What is my goal? What am I working on? So I pivoted into a new space. So I am an emerging art curator. So it's all about art for me. So I think about, thank you. I had to think about what are those spaces that are conducive to what I'm doing. And so out of those that I mentioned really for me is it's Instagram is number Instagram and YouTube. are like the top two for where I'm at in my space. So anything that's not that, it's either I'm pausing it for an indefinite amount of time, or I'm using it sporadically to where it's maybe LinkedIn, I'm just going to check messages as opposed to being concerned with posting. Because with all of that social media, that's a job in itself to where you have to constantly post. Otherwise, you're unseen. Your algorithm doesn't even know. You're like, who are you?

DeeDee Cummings: 16:11 17:30 If you're going to have a social media platform, you really need to pick the ones that you enjoy. Yep. Because you're the one that's going to have to use them and don't have what they call FOMO. You know, I came off Twitter after all the stuff that was happening on Twitter. I won't waste time talking about all that here. But after all the mess on Twitter, which is now called X, I just deleted my account. And I feel so good about that. But it was too much to try to keep up with Twitter. Then people told me I had to be on Snapchat, TikTok. I was trying to figure out how to do videos on TikTok. I mean, I don't enjoy doing videos on TikTok. So, you know, if you're going to be on all of those platforms, then you may want to consider looking into hiring a person to do your social media for you, unless that's your thing. You want to show people how you manage social media so you can also manage theirs. But if you're really going to work on your dream, you've got to pick one to two platforms max, like you said, LinkedIn and Instagram. And mine are Instagram and Facebook. And that's OK. You have to pick the ones that work for you. Do not waste time trying to be on every platform. Because guess what? Next year, there'll be a new one, too. Absolutely. We just can't live like that.

Deneen L. Garrett: 17:30 18:48 Absolutely. Absolutely. So that's where I'm at. And also, like you said, the one of two things. I was at an event a couple of weeks ago. And at this event, you know, it seemed like all the speakers, they were saying just about everybody said the same thing, focus on one thing and do that one thing very, very well. I think you talked about earlier how, you know, sometimes we're doing a lot with all these different things. And with me doing a lot of different things and it's like, okay. Focus on that one or two and do that one or two well, and then go, you know, branch out from there. And then, you know, and especially if it's aligned, like the stuff that I was doing, a lot of my stuff is aligned. However, like you talked about those 10 lanes in your mind, like that going on. Right. So it's like, wait a minute, let me focus on this. Let me really jump into this and build this out and then from there. So that's where I'm at. And like I said, I'm about to start my LinkedIn pause, which a lot of people who know me, LinkedIn was like number one for me. And I, I you know I you know I promote linkedin linkedin is great right now linkedin is not or let me back up right now instagram and YouTube is the space, the platforms for where i'm at.

DeeDee Cummings: 18:48 20:07 yeah yeah yeah. Yeah, we live in a world filled with distractions, and it's getting worse. Yes, it is. And that's strategic, too, because there are lots of things in our way that people don't often think about. Excuse me, my little light just clicked off. I don't know if I need it or not, but since we're on YouTube, I want to look as pretty as possible. Don't notice the difference. Don't notice it. OK, great. I'm glad you don't notice it. All right, I'll leave it alone. But we're just in a world filled with distractions and that's by design. You know, I tell people all the time, Taco Hut doesn't want you to dream because Taco Hut needs employees. I say that all the time to people because this whole world is, there's lots of things set up by design to keep you from dreaming. Because we can't all be queen bees. Somebody has to hold down the shot. And so, you know, be mindful when you talk to people about your dreams. Really think about who you're sharing your dream with, because there are so many things out there that are designed to keep us down. And all of this social media distraction is one of those things. The more time you spend watching other people do things and watching other people dream, that's less time you're pouring into your dream.

Deneen L. Garrett: 20:07 21:32 Absolutely. And someone had a friend of mine, she had she was on a doing a YouTube interview and said, you know i'm really not on social media because i'm living. was like. i'm like okay. he's out in the world she's living she doesn't need to be on. And so a couple things with that, love it, yes, living. Now, if you're a business, if you're needing social media or you're utilizing social media for your business, and of course, you need to be on social media. She has a luxury to where she doesn't need social media for her business. So that's something else for you all just to keep in mind. We're not saying just get rid of it. We're saying to really think about that thing that you want, how you want to live your life, and what are the things that enhance it. So whatever those things are that enhance it, that's what you want to focus on. So the things that don't, say no to those things, or say later to those things. So we're talking a lot about barriers. and somewhat of how we break those barriers. So let's just get into that a little bit more. So kind of thinking again with media, with your MakeAway media, with the book festival, like what were some, let's talk about the book festival specifically, what were some barriers that you had to overcome?

DeeDee Cummings: 21:33 25:13 There have been many barriers, the biggest one and the most obvious one, and I won't spend a lot of time on it because, you know, we've been pandemic talked to death. But I started thinking about doing the festival in 2017. I formally organized in 2018 and started planning. And the first festival was going to be held in October 2020. No one could predict that a global pandemic would hit us and the impact that would have on that dream. And I didn't think during the first pause I had in October of 2020, I didn't think about giving up on the book festival. I thought, how can I still hold the book festival? And so we did it virtually. But by the second year, when we had to go virtual again, because the pandemic was still not, you know, under control, I did think about giving up. We just weren't getting any traction. We weren't getting a lot of followers. We weren't getting a lot of buzz. It was very hard to do that in the time of the pandemic because the first year people were excited to get on Zoom and see the book festival. The second year, everybody was Zoomed out. So the last thing people wanted to do was get online for an all-day festival. Nobody wanted to sit on Zoom for eight hours because school had been on Zoom, work had been on Zoom, church had been on Zoom. everybody was in doubt. And so I did think, man, this is like way more than I signed up for. But for some reason, I said, I'm not gonna, I want this to be an annual thing. And I'm not going to in the second year, already, not have an annual event. So we went on ahead, and we went forward with zoom, the second year, we didn't even have a big audience. um but we did it and then the third year we got to hold it in person and it was amazing and a lot of that work that we had done from the first year and the second year that we couldn't see it was like the fruit blossomed in the third year and so now we're going into our fifth year and it's it's so exciting to see those roots that we formed when we couldn't see that we couldn't see the roots because they were under the dirt Right. But for five years we built those roots and now it's a strong, solid foundation and the Louisville Book Festival is turning into a national event. I mean we have authors from all over the country that are emailing us and saying hey my friend's an author and she said I have to be. in this event. But there have been lots of things that have held me back in life. When I wanted to be an author, I didn't want to reach out to a bunch of agents and publishers. I wanted, by the time I decided, I was 44 when I wrote my first book. That's another thing people think, like, if you're not an author in your 20s, then it's too late. It's never too late. I meet people all the time that write their first book when they're 72 or 65. So if the book is on your heart to write, you should write it. But there are lots of things in your way when you want to publish, lots of things. But guess what? There's also a lot of information out there. So really, I love the story that you told about the WLC podcast group and where you decided, I'm only going to listen to this person. Being an author is the same way. Find someone who you trust and who's successful in publishing books, has reviews and has feedback. And you can see that, you know, that they have the street credibility to back them up and then follow that person because there's a wealth. The best thing about the time we live in right now is that you can Google and YouTube anything. Right. And find it.

Deneen L. Garrett: 25:13 26:50 Yes, absolutely. You can. Absolutely. And so and that's that's the space that I'm in as well. So I came across this tool. And I think it's like vid IQ or something like that. But it's tied in with YouTube. And so I started using it last night. And it has a wealth of information. It has these little lessons you can take. It also kind of analyzes your content, et cetera, give some recommendations. And I absolutely love it. And some of the things that it says, and you hear this in different spaces, find someone who you want to emulate. Find someone who they're doing a thing that you aspire to do. They appear to be doing that thing well, and study them. Yes, right, you can even just start with one person because you know now i'm on this whole thing is let's make it simple let's start with one person and branch out from there. Yes, you know, and then build from there, as opposed to like I was one of those ones again 50 different things going on, like I love so I have 50 million things going on, you know and doing them, you know. well or doing them good, but if I were to focus on one, I would have done it better and great. Yes. So now I'm in better and great mode to where I really need to focus on this one thing and, and kind of, you know, shut the noise to everything else. I love that. Yeah. So with the, um, the books and, you know, you mentioned about starting writing, did you start writing journals and then built from there?

DeeDee Cummings: 26:51 27:27 No, I started writing children's books. I had in my mind for a long time that I wanted to write children's books because I was working with children and I was hearing these stories repeatedly of children losing hope, of children giving up. And so that was very discouraging. And I wanted to write stories for children that would help inspire them to not lose hope. no matter what circumstances they were in. So I started with children's books and I'm just now starting to write books for adults.

Deneen L. Garrett: 27:27 27:51 Okay. Okay. That's awesome. So we have MakeAway Media and that's where you're writing books. And then we also have the Louisville Book Festival. And so you had the third year that you did the festival was in person. Yes, yeah plans for this year what's what's going on for 2024.

DeeDee Cummings: 27:51 29:07 For 2024 we're holding it in person, the fifth year we're in the same location we've been the past couple years that Kentucky international convention Center, which is a beautiful large bright space. Applications, if you're interested in applying as an author, open on May 1st, and the application window will stay open until July 31st, so you have all that time to apply. Your book does not have to be finished before July 31st, but we do need to see a copy of the book that will be published before the October festival. It'll be held in Louisville, Kentucky on October 18th and 19th. And I don't care where you are in the country, it is an amazing event to come to a book festival. So if you're interested, you should come down and see it. It's very inspiring. And it's really what our communities need right now, because information illiteracy is at an all time high. And so being surrounded by book lovers, who love the truth, love information, love correct information and love sharing their stories is a beautiful environment to be in. So I don't care where you are in the country. I hope to see you. We've had lots of people from Detroit come down.

Deneen L. Garrett: 29:07 29:11 Okay. Now the date again, I know it's October 18th and 19th. Okay, perfect.

DeeDee Cummings: 29:14 29:32 Yeah, we usually try to fall on the third weekend in October every year so that authors, there's book festivals all over the country and authors kind of do like a circuit. So we wanted people to know when to expect the Louisville Book Festival. So we're targeting the third weekend in October every single year.

Deneen L. Garrett: 29:32 29:51 Okay, okay. Well, I want to spend our last few minutes talking more around dreams, right? So like I said, We're going to title this Breaking Barriers, Pursuing Your Dreams Fearlessly. You're already, you know, you shared your professional dreamer. And so what are you dreaming about right now? What dreams are you chasing?

DeeDee Cummings: 29:51 31:31 The biggest dream I have, and this is a crazy dream, I didn't share it for a long time because it's so huge, but I believe that if I have the idea That is all the evidence I need to make that dream happen. So my daughter's on Broadway. Her name is Kayla Pacchione. She's been on Broadway for the past few years. She was in Paradise Square and last year she was in Some Like It Hot. Now she is in The Great Gatsby. And one of the children's series that I wrote is called Kayla, Modern Day Princess because Princesses are still very popular among young girls and girls do need to know that they're royal. And black girls need to know it more than anybody else because if you just look at the Disney princesses, for example, I mean, there's 20 Disney princesses and one of them is black. And it took us, you know, till I was an adult to get that. There was no black Disney princess when I was growing up. And so my children's series, Kayla, Modern Day Princess is about a beautiful little black girl who's raised by her family to believe that she's royal. And her ultimate goal is to end up on Broadway. And my ultimate goal in real life is to get that story to Broadway. That's a gigantic dream, gigantic dream. And it's gonna take a lot of effort. A lot of people are like, I'll see you on Broadway next year. This is like a 10, 15, maybe even 20 year dream. So this is not an overnight dream. It's the biggest dream I've ever had, but that is my biggest dream. I love it. I'm dreaming with you.

Deneen L. Garrett: 31:31 31:40 Thank you. You're welcome. OK, so when you wrote the book about your daughter, did you write that book when she was a child or?

DeeDee Cummings: 31:40 32:40 No, I wrote what I had the idea for the book. And I would say right after she graduated from high from college, which was like 2014, she didn't actually end up on Broadway until probably 2019. And I published those books in 2020. But I had the idea right before she went to Broadway, but I knew she was going to Broadway. And I felt like other little girls, and it doesn't even matter their skin color, other kids needed to hear this story of just like a normal, everyday person following their dream. Because another thing about dreams is a lot of times we think they're like for special people. You know, that you had to have some leg up or some advantage to achieve that dream. And that's not true. Normal people like you and me every day make crazy dreams come true.

Deneen L. Garrett: 32:40 33:19 And that's what a dream is. That's the beauty of a dream. Anyone can dream. Anyone can absolutely dream. Now, there may be some barriers to you actually bringing those dreams to life, but you can dream and you can make a way. Yeah, right. Like, yeah, just make a way. I have no way like you can figure it out. You can go around. I mean, in this day and age, I mean, you have YouTube, so you can go ahead and record yourself doing any of those things that for yourself and grow and blow up and blow up from there. Right. So, yes, anybody can dream. Absolutely.

DeeDee Cummings: 33:19 33:42 Yeah. It's beautiful. It is. If you really want to live the best life possible, spend time with people who are doing something and figure out what your dream is and then make that your life's work to make that dream happen. That is how you find the best life possible. That's how you find your passion and your purpose.

Deneen L. Garrett: 33:42 34:40 Absolutely. Absolutely. And like with me, I share, so like I'm sharing, you know, how I'm living a dream life and what it is to me, because my dream life is different than yours and other people. Like for me, What consists of my dream life is travel. I love right and attending events. So to attend an event and now art. And as I had mentioned with you earlier mentioned to you. I'm an emerging art curator. So I'm traveling and it's funny because Now, you know, attracting a manifesting I'm in that state, it's like everywhere I go, I'm attracting art in some kind of way, like my room, it's in the hotel, the room is called an art room. And I'm running into people and they're like, Oh, let's go to this, you know, museum, this, this black exhibit is going on. So before we say goodbye to everybody, what would you like to leave folks with?

DeeDee Cummings: 34:42 35:13 I just love talking about dreams. Please follow my account MakeAwayMindset if you need inspiration on how to follow your dream. But I just want everyone to know that dreams are not reserved for special people. And one of the saddest things that I see in my career as a therapist is when I meet people who have no dreams. Everyone should have a dream. You are entitled to dream. It is your right to dream. And so I hope if you're listening to this today, you figure out what your dream is and you go for it.

Deneen L. Garrett: 35:13 35:16 Love it. Thank you so much Dee Dee Cummings. Thank you so much.