Understanding Infidelity: A Journey Towards Healing

Randi: 0:14

Welcome to the Women's Mental Health Podcast with Randi and Jess. We're two licensed psychotherapists, and we talk about mental health, well-being, strategies for coping with life's challenges, and how it's all normal.

Jess: 0:26

Today we're delving into a topic that can shake the foundation of our relationships. Why do people cheat on their partners? We're going to explore this sensitive subject with empathy, honesty and maybe a little bit of laughter or humor if we can find it. It affects

Randi: 0:42

explore This is an issue that affects many relationships and can deeply impact a woman's mental health. If you've been cheated on, it really might be about them and not you. You can find us and more resources on womensmentalhealthpodcast.com.

Jess: 0:57

Have you ever had these thoughts?

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Why do people cheat in relationships? How

Jess: 1:02

How does infidelity impact mental health?

Randi: 1:05

Is it possible to rebuild trust after affairs?

Jess: 1:08

How can I cope with the pain of infidelity?

Randi: 1:11

Should I forgive my partner who cheated on me?

Jess: 1:13

Can affairs be a symptom of deeper relationship issues?

Randi: 1:17

How can I rebuild my self esteem after being cheated on?

Jess: 1:21

can therapy help couples recover from infidelity?

Randi: 1:24

How can I prevent cheating in my relationship?

Jess: 1:27

How can I support a friend who has experienced infidelity?

Randi: 1:31

So let's start by defining the topic. Infidelity or cheating involves engaging in a romantic or sexual activities, even emotional, outside the agreed upon boundaries of the partnership.

Jess: 1:46

So when we say agreed upon, there's lots of different things out there, right? Some people have open relationships and

Randi: 1:53

relationships

Jess: 1:55

But even with those, there can be infidelity, even though they're like, but wait, you already have a boyfriend and I have a girlfriend. That was the agreed upon. And so anything that wasn't agreed upon is considered the cheating or the infidelity.

Randi: 2:09

So you need to Be sure you're on the same page and have open and clear communication about what your expectations are in a relationship. I feel a lot of time we have ideas in our head and we don't communicate them with our partner. And so that's where a lot of disconnect can happen with this because if you haven't said like this in black and white, this is how I feel about these things. Maybe the person doesn't know.

Jess: 2:32

Oh, yeah, there are people who get upset because, oh, so and so is watching porn, that's cheating. Okay, well, have you told this person how you feel about porn? Have you talked to this person about what it, makes you feel like, right? Is there an agreed upon thing? So it really, it is about communicating with your partner preferably before you get married, not like 10 years in going, by the way, it's like an outside affair or,

Randi: 2:57

yeah, but I mean that usually happens though, is that we don't communicate or we get married or in a relationship when we're young and we don't know how to use these things to communicate or use our voice, and maybe there's some discontent in the relationship down the road, and then you're like, we've never really talked about this.

Jess: 3:16

Or you're young and you don't really know what it is you're into or like. So it's interesting. So one of the terms too that I had recently heard is a micro affair. And I've now heard it a bunch because my brain is picking it up. But have you ever heard of the term micro affair?

Randi: 3:32

No, I had never heard of it before, so I was really interested to find out more about it and talk about it. So can you explain to us a little bit more about what a microaffair is?

Jess: 3:43

Yes, it is not like a psychological term. It's this internet easy, like short, yeah, slang that people are using. And we know an emotional affair. Affair is where you are emotionally connected with somebody. Mm-Hmm. a sexual affair is where you've had sex. A micro affair isn't quite connected emotionally. It isn't quite, you haven't had sex. It is,

Randi: 4:07

Like dipping your toe in the water to see if there's like a ripple effect almost in a way or kind of reaching out to see

Jess: 4:15

It's the, somebody

Randi: 4:15

might be interested or

Jess: 4:18

or maybe it's the, the person who is texting somebody else, but you're not telling your partner that you're texting them. You're not having an emotional affair. You're not having a sexual affair, but you're doing something secretive from your partner. And usually it involves somebody that you're interested in because if you're texting your friend, you'd be like, yeah, I'm just texting Randy. You wouldn't be like, no, I'm not texting anybody. and so it's, it

Randi: 4:42

feel like defensive, like about it. Mm hmm. It's just,

Jess: 4:45

it is, it is cheating on a, like a lower, I guess a lower level, but they say it still is just as bad.

Randi: 4:53

Because I think like all forms of cheating feel like a betrayal and that can just really throw off your emotional well being. I feel like especially as like a woman because we put a lot of value in what others think of us and we put a lot into our relationships though women very often to cheat just as often as men. So this is not a. Us versus them. This is just an overall it's very, and especially I feel in this world uh, with all the digital access we have, it's very easy to just reach out to somebody and create like a connection with somebody, maybe even if you weren't intending it, but then you feel like maybe there is something wrong in my relationship and this, and you can go down a dark path that you're like, oh, holy shit,

Jess: 5:42

I find most people don't go I think I'm going to go have an affair. Most people don't do that. And I used to joke, it sounds harsh, but you just don't fall into bed with somebody. It doesn't happen. It is. Usually there are other things that lead up to it. And really it's not a new thing, right? Infidelity or cheating has been around for a long, long time.

Randi: 6:03

It's just something that happens. We have a very Rigid view of sexuality in the U. S., too, that you need to be in a committed one person marital relationship, and that's just not how everybody feels, or how it should be normal everybody. And I feel sometimes when people feel like they need to be put into these boxes, or they do things like, maybe it's your religion. Like, I need to get married early, or I need to get married to a woman, or I need to get married to a man. And then you find out, I don't like these things. And then instead of just having these conversations, because you've been taught it might be wrong, quote, unquote, even though it's not, You reach out and look for other avenues to satisfy these needs instead of just saying hey, this is where I'm at or like, you know, I'm changing or things like that. We're very fearful of communicating who we really are.

Jess: 6:57

We really, especially with our partners who are supposed to know us the best. But Randi, why do people cheat?

Randi: 7:03

Well, really, it's not one thing like we were talking about it. There's just so many things. It could be past trauma. It could be current trauma. It could be communication issues. Lack of emotional connections, maybe you're looking for a thrill, you need some excitement. I know like when I was in college and I was not diagnosed with my ADHD and unmedicated, I was chasing dopamine. So I was chasing relationships. Like I got like a, almost like a high off of that, like going out and dating

Jess: 7:36

Well, a lot of people feel like when they have a one night stand or they have a new relationship, they can be anything they want. And then the sex is great or there's a thrill. When you're with somebody for 20, 30 years, you're like, all right, my side of the bed, your side of the bed, right? And so some people find that they're not working with their partners to keep it exciting or yeah. Different.

Randi: 7:59

You realize the older you get and that, You just replace the person with the same set of problems if you don't address them you know, it seems exciting. And at first with a new person, and then you are still left with those same issues if you don't address them. And then those patterns can happen again and again. And a lot of times people cheat too, because maybe they've seen that in their parents, or maybe they've seen a parent act that way to another parent. Maybe that's led them down this path. They think that that's normal. For them or how a woman or a man should treat each other. There's lots of things. Maybe there might be health issues or physical issues If a man is having a physical problem and the woman's not being satisfied and maybe he feels ashamed of that and vice versa, it's like the older we get to like our sex drive goes down and so how do we meet our partner's needs and I think it really comes down to. Like we said, like sitting down and having those conversations.

Jess: 8:56

Yeah, I find when I work with people is that it is they feel that one person is checked out. They're either not getting sex, they're not feeling love, they're not feeling heard or touched or they have their own stuff within them going. ooh, can I still get that person? That kind of a thing. Cause it's their issues,

Randi: 9:18

right?

Jess: 9:19

not necessarily the person at home. I mean, They could be having sex every day at home and still go out and have an affair or have. like we talked about earlier in the podcast, an emotional affair, because maybe the sex is great, but they're just not getting their emotions met. And sometimes that's really hard is when you can't connect emotionally with your partner to sit down and have that conversation or to have some honesty.

Randi: 9:45

to sit down And I feel in this day and age too, a lot of us rely on our partner as our sole source of fulfillment or our children and our partner and that's it. We don't seek out other things like hobbies or friendships or support systems. Outside of our relationship and there's so many more cups that we need filled that our partner is not going to be able to realistically meet all the needs that we have as an ever changing person. And I think that's a lot to put on somebody too. And so you need to find what do I need and what can I do to help myself too? And find. These needs and what needs to be met.

Jess: 10:27

If you think about it We have kids, we meet a partner, not always in this order, but we meet somebody we like, we have kids, we raise our kids, and we change. Having a kid has changed me. It's changed all of us for the most part.

Randi: 10:43

And again, it changes again when they leave the nest and things like that and then your relationship changes because then the focus changes a lot of empty nesters when their kids leave and then they're like, Oh, it's just you and I and shit. Like we don't know each other anymore. Or like, what are we going to do? Oh, I have to spend time with you. Like it's been go, go, go with the kids. And now you're pausing and If you don't feed your relationship, if you don't feed your soul, if you don't feed who you are or who your partner is, it is all going to fall apart.

Jess: 11:14

and it will and and that's why a lot of people when their kids leave will have relationships with other

Randi: 11:21

got, my parents were married for 21 years and they got divorced when I left for college.

Jess: 11:25

So it's your fault?

Randi: 11:26

It's my fault. Totally. I did, I I did for a long time think that. Yeah. Think that I carried that and I was like, I don't have that much power.

Jess: 11:34

and I am joking when I say it's her fault. You can't see me smile, but I am joking that she, she does not have that much power and you are not responsible for somebody else making a choice. Yes, it takes two in a relationship. But somebody who has an affair, that is a choice they make. I know it's emotional pain and it's betrayal, but part of this is that it's not your fault. Yes, everybody plays a part in the relationship, but this is a choice that that other person has made.

Randi: 12:04

And it's...

Jess: 12:06

important

Randi: 12:06

understand too that sometimes it can be part of the mental health disorder that they have, like anxiety, depression, post traumatic stress disorder,

Jess: 12:17

bipolar,

Randi: 12:18

yeah, bipolarism, emotional trauma. Especially with like bipolarism and post traumatic stress disorder, those things hugely can impact a relationship and cause divide that can lead to infidelity or disconnect and communication issues. and infidelity has a huge impact on women's mental health. It sends.

Jess: 12:43

a

Randi: 12:43

Title wave through our self esteem, our family system, our homes, our friendships. there's nothing that it sometimes doesn't touch and ultimately makes us question our worth and our partner's worth. So how do we cope with the aftermath of infidelity?

Jess: 13:03

It is really, really challenging. You have to communicate. I think the first one though, is you need to communicate with yourself and decide that, is this even what you want to do? Can you move past this? And we all have had the friend that says, oh, hell no. If this person cheats on me, I'm out. No way I'm out. That is a deal breaker. It happens a lot. There are so many people who their spouse has an affair and then they end up working through it because it is something that they have decided they've made a conscious choice to work through. So your first thing is you have to look at yourself. Is this something you want to do and if so, then you have to make sure your partner is also committed because if your partner says, I'm committed, I'm going to be in this. Let's do it. You're going to need to now do the work, which is seeking therapy, going to counseling on your own and with him or her creating better boundaries. Part of it is learning to heal

Randi: 14:08

And like you said, this is not something that is commonly talked about in the daylight. Nobody wants to admit that they have cheated on their spouse or have been cheated on. But the reality is, is that about 40 percent of men and married relationships cheat and about 25 percent of women do. And when it comes down to it, you probably know somebody in your friend circle or a handful of people that have probably been through this, but not talked about it with you. For me, I always think that talking about these things in the open like this. can be very therapeutic and healing, and that's where it's important to bring in open communication with your relationship, about your relationship and working, like you said, together to rebuild that trust and to learn healthy communication skills so that if you do decide to move forward with your relationship, you have those in your toolbox moving forward.

Jess: 15:11

And what really prompted this, this podcast subject was. I was watching a real uh, Jimmy on relationships or something. And man, he was nailing it all the time. I'm like, yes, yes, that's awesome. That's awesome. And then we were looking it up and I'm like, oh. he cheated on his wife and that's why he's doing this now. And I'm like, Oh, and I'm like, okay, so does that change how I view him? Because I'm like, maybe it does. He's not a therapist. He's not a counselor, but I like his videos and he seems spot on. So I'm like, well, maybe he's learned.

Randi: 15:44

Yeah. I think what he did was he wanted to heal from the infidelity he had caused his wife and their relationship. And so he started researching about it and what he could do you know, to help himself and their

Jess: 15:58

They went to therapy.

Randi: 16:00

And so he has life experience about going through this. And so I think that's why it is so spot on because he has been the cheater in a relationship. And so he can kind of joke about it too in ways, but he does have that perspective of, yes, I cheated on my wife. Yes, she forgave me. Yes, we have moved forward in this. I mean he doesn't talk about that on all his videos But that's like, you know his basis

Jess: 16:25

has talked about it. I just don't know how his wife, I was thinking, I wonder if she's making him do this.

Randi: 16:30

Yeah, no, I don't yeah

Jess: 16:32

don't know, but I was like, wow that is, he is spot on because he's been on the other side. So how do we support people who are going through this? Really be non judgmental. I feel in this situation a lot of

Randi: 16:46

So how do we can be very judgmental or our friends can because they want to feel like they're siding with you, but you can sway somebody too with, if you bring negativity into the space that they're in. So just being like asking them, what do you need from me? Validating what they're feeling, not really talking about the partner, I feel, isn't really like, necessary. And reminding that person of their worth, and just letting them know that they're not walking alone with this, even if they do feel alone.

Jess: 17:19

Yeah, I think having the non judgmental space is really, really important because it's so hard. We've all had that friend or been that friend that has said, Oh, so and so did this. You're like, what a dick. You should leave him. She's like, yeah, I'm going to leave him.

Randi: 17:33

had that or I'll get the shovel, I'll get the car, no questions asked. I mean, We joke about that, but

Jess: 17:38

then they get back together and then you're sitting at dinner going, Oh, I told you he was an ass, right?

Randi: 17:45

then they feel like maybe they can't talk to you about it again or they feel like maybe I don't want to tell my friends or family I'm back with them again because of this, or you might hide what's happening to you because of that. So All around with your friends and family, try to have open conversation and be like, I don't want you to hate this person. This is what's happening. I want you to be open about it as I am open about it to trying to move forward with this and understand that and have compassion all around on all sides of the story. Because again, we are not in that person's shoes or in that relationship, we don't truly know what goes on. So like you said, having that compassion, not pointing fingers, not playing the blame game or saying like, this person's at fault, but really just coming from a place of understanding so that that person can heal and make decisions for themselves. that's best for their relationship, their family, and their mental health.

Jess: 18:45

And they really deserve to make a choice and a decision based upon what their needs are, not yours or your relationship or your opinions. Right,

Randi: 18:54

Or your experience, because it's totally different,

Jess: 18:57

And I think that's something we learn as a therapist is to be able to separate our stuff from theirs. And a lot of people don't have that training because we can be like, ooh, but we can't give our opinions on that. We can't, we have to be very careful to not sway

Randi: 19:14

learn to separate how we listen and advice that we give, but in friendships you know, we kind of let that down, even as therapists you know, we don't talk to each other that way in real life, but we know. We are able to step back when we know and we can notice when it is a moment like that, that is very important. But, like you said, I think a lot of us need to learn to take ourselves out of the equation when offering support to others.

Jess: 19:45

if you don't know how to give it, and you don't know what to say, it's okay to say, I don't know what to say or how to feel about this. It might be really good to take this to a therapist or a counselor.

Randi: 19:57

what to a good, great, strong boundary, too. I don't want to fuck up our friendship or your relationship, so I'm out of this.

Jess: 20:04

I don't want to be part of this.

Randi: 20:06

you want to go to a movie, if you want to cry on my shoulder, if you want to go shopping, whatever, I'm there for it, but I don't have the capacity. To deal with this this is out of my wheelhouse and often we'll say that as therapists this is not my focus. I don't know this in depth very well. You can say that as a friend, or as a family member like, I'm not comfortable with this, or like, I love you both, and I don't, I can't see You know, what you're seeing or what he's seeing.

Jess: 20:35

I'm here,

Randi: 20:35

I love you, but I have to step back That's okay, too, on that side of trying to be a support system.

Jess: 20:43

And it is also okay if you don't want to hear about it all the time. And I know we want you to be nonjudgmental and open, but if it's not something that you can hear because it's too close. Or

Randi: 20:54

for

Jess: 20:55

Triggering, or you're just like, Oh no, no, no, no. I want to laugh and have fun. This isn't what I want. It's okay to also put a boundary up there too, to say maybe you should take this to your therapist because it's like when you have that friend that says the same thing over and over and over, you're like, okay, you're not getting it. You probably need to go talk about this with your therapist.

Randi: 21:14

Right. That's all we have for today's episode. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review our Women's Mental Health Podcast. Join us next time for more empowering discussions on topics that matter most to you.

Jess: 21:27

Until then, take care of yourself, support one another and remember that you deserve love, respect, and fidelity.