Breaking the Perfectionism Trap

Jess: 0:14

Welcome back to the Women's Mental Health Podcast with Randi and Jess. We're two licensed psychotherapists and we talk about mental health, well being and strategies for coping with life's challenges. And

Randi: 0:25

how it's all normal and you're not alone.

Jess: 0:27

Today, we are going to talk about perfection and why it is so toxic.

Randi: 0:32

This episode explores the impact of perfectionism on women's mental health. We're going to offer insights and look into its effects and strategies for coping with perfectionism.

Jess: 0:44

First and foremost, let's talk about how perfect does not exist, right? Who developed

Randi: 0:51

the idea of

Jess: 0:53

Pinterest,

Randi: 0:54

Fucking Pinterest, man. It's been around for way longer than that. So we're going to talk about embracing our imperfections and prioritizing self-compassion because it's essential to overcome these toxic. aspects of perfectionism. Yeah, it does

Jess: 1:10

not exist, people. Okay, have you ever thought?

Randi: 1:15

What is perfectionism, and how does it really affect women's mental health?

Jess: 1:20

How does societal pressure contribute to the perfectionism of women? What

Randi: 1:25

What are some signs of perfectionism that I can look out for?

Jess: 1:29

Is perfectionism linked to imposter syndrome? Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, that's a good one. And how does it affect

Randi: 1:34

women? Can perfectionism be beneficial at all?

Jess: 1:39

I don't know, man. How can women overcome perfectionism? I can't say that word. Prioritize? Yes, self

Randi: 1:47

compassion. What role does therapy or counseling play in addressing perfectionism, especially in women? Mm

Jess: 1:53

hmm. How can women Foster a supportive community to combat perfectionism because, us women and men, we are so harsh on each other.

Randi: 2:02

other. Yeah. And so if you do have like a cheering squad behind you and a great tribe or village, as we like to say, it can really help that when you do have tendencies to push yourself. this way. Are there any resources or books that we recommend for women struggling with perfectionism? And how can

Jess: 2:23

As women, how can we shift our mindset from being perfect to self-acceptance?

Randi: 2:29

Yeah. Okay, so let's define perfect. So what does perfect mean?

Jess: 2:34

Jess? So when you look it up in the dictionary, it says having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics as good as it's possible to be. Oh, that was hard to say. So, as good as it's possible to be,. So it's a bunch of bullshit. Well, but so somebody was talking about being perfect. And so I said, All right, let's look it up. Let's look up the definition of perfect. Because it doesn't exist. If it is as good as it's possible to be,.

Randi: 3:08

That's

Jess: 3:08

different for everybody. That's different for everybody. And you're constantly chasing this goal that's not attainable. Hmm. Because is that good enough? As good as it's going to get.

Randi: 3:20

Yeah. It's interesting because it says having all required or desirable elements. Well, what are those? Who? Who defines those? Who's requiring what is desirable? What are the elements? And so I think that this shifts from person to person. So it's really not attainable. Ooh.

Jess: 3:41

Oh, okay. You know how I say time is very fluid, especially for us ADHDers? Maybe perfect is very fluid as well. Yeah. Because you're right. If it's shifting, my perfect and your perfect are different.

Randi: 3:53

Exactly. And I think that's half the battle, right? We are holding ourselves to standards. We don't really understand or have defined either. Exactly.

Jess: 4:03

Okay. So, are we trying to live up to somebody else's idea of perfection?

Randi: 4:08

I think usually, yeah, social media, or, like you said, Pinterest, Instagram, a family member, a father figure, a mother figure—who are you trying to impress? Let's go back and see and look at where this is stemming from. What am I trying to achieve here? Who am I trying to make happy? Is it yourself? Or is it somebody else?

Jess: 4:31

That's interesting. Okay. So perfectionism, if we look at it, is the relentless pursuit of flawlessness, setting excessive, flawlessness, flawlessness—that's hard to say. Setting excessively high standards, right? And being overly critical of ourselves when those standards aren't met. That's how we look at it as women, right? If we can't meet these standards, we're super critical of ourselves.

Randi: 4:55

So pursuit of flawlessness. There's nobody on this earth who is flawless. That hasn't made a mistake; that has the perfect skin; that has the perfect life. Like we said, that's not it; it doesn't exist. So again,  it says excessively high standards. So, like not even just regular goals or regular wants, this is excessive and who is ever going to reach a bar that you set so high?

Jess: 5:28

Well, it's interesting too, because why are we setting it so high? What are we supposed to get out of being perfect? That's what I'm saying, like,

Randi: 5:35

Where do we go back if we have, like, some trauma or we're trying to please somebody outside of ourselves? To achieve something that we know isn't achievable. Why would you do that?

Jess: 5:46

I don't know yourself That's really interesting because why are we trying to be perfect and who for and that's what I think It's almost like for other women, right? We go to people's houses and we want our house to be perfect or we don't let them in because our house isn't

Randi: 5:59

perfect Yeah, but where does that stem from? Martha Stewart. It's

Jess: 6:04

all, it's all, it's

Randi: 6:06

all, Let's remember that she ended up in jail. Exactly. So how perfect was she, please? Right. So, perfectionism can manifest in so many different ways, and it affects women's health. in different ways. So it can lead to things like anxiety and depression low self-esteem and lack of self-confidence. And when you feel shy about yourself, then you're just going to end up in this negative cycle of telling yourself I'm not perfect. I haven't achieved this. I didn't reach this. I didn't do this. So I'm crap. And that's it. That narrative is bullshit. And

Jess: 6:47

I think we're not being kind to ourselves. You, right before the holidays, thought it was really funny a couple of weeks ago, right? Right before the holidays, everybody was like, Oh my god, my house is a mess, everything is a mess. And finally, I broke down and said, Okay, I just need to share with you. I am currently living out of clean laundry baskets. I can't even put away my stuff right now. I'm so swamped, and so it is what it is, but they're all clean. I've got three baskets in the middle of my house in the corner, and I'm living out of a clean laundry basket, and somebody was like, You're doing that too? I was like,

Randi: 7:20

yeah. I do that all year long. So not even during the holiday. And I was like,

Jess: 7:25

and in fact, I was like, I was the only one that didn't have it. That's what my family does. So fine. I'll live out of clean

Randi: 7:30

laundry baskets too. To me, the fact that our clothes are even clean. Perfectionism.

Jess: 7:35

Right. You're like, okay, I got clean clothes. Alla wears cotton and jeans anyway, so I don't care if it's wrinkled. Then it was like those memes going around, like being the hot mess express and the train wrecks, right? And then my thing was like, Oh, but is your Roomba stuck in the other room? Our Roomba has been stuck somewhere, and nobody has found it because we are like, whatever. It's time for that right now. Well, I think they just keep stepping over it. Yeah. And somebody started laughing, and she's ours, stuck under the tree. And I was like, yeah, cool. Then you have now made it to where everybody in this planet is

Randi: 8:06

right now. And I think that's the thing: we just don't talk about our struggles enough and voice them enough, so people feel like they are failing. And they're not really realizing their potential or leveling up their perfection game like this when it's like we're all just doing the best that we can. And an important thing to talk about is that while aiming for goals or what you think is excellent isn't harmful, we're talking about the toxic side of perfectionism. Yes. That really leads to you. Questioning your worth and your confidence shifts your whole thought process in your life and can lead to anxiety, depression, or even something like eating disorders. You know, If you are on the perfect Train about your body so while goals are good. There's a you know, there's a limit

Jess: 9:01

There there is a line Yeah And sometimes, when we start looking at some of the diagnoses that we have in mental health, people who are OCD can take that perfectionism and everything has to be perfect. That's when we start looking at whether this is considered harmful. Is it causing you harm in terms of anxiety and depression? Obviously, that's harmful. And so there is that line between, okay, great. You want to keep it clean, but at what point are you harming yourself or your family? By either focusing too much on this piece or not letting people live, right?

Randi: 9:40

Exactly. And so going back a little bit again to like, where does this stem from? Well, when we talk about society and the pressures, especially as being like a woman or like a mother,. It's thought that we are supposed to be the best at everything; we're supposed to run a household, we're supposed to have a job, we're supposed to be a mother, we're supposed to be a friend, we're supposed to be a sister, and we're supposed to be the best at all of these things, all at the same time, and we talk about this in more depth in our kin-keeping episodes. We have a series about this, and this causes people to internalize their need for perfection, thus leading to mental health struggles because when you are pulled in so many different directions, what are you going to do? You're going to break. You're going to break. So it's like we're just setting ourselves up to break.

Jess: 10:32

I was recently watching the Buccaneers. Have you seen that one? No, I haven't seen that. Okay. So it's set back, I don't know, a long time ago. But when people had servants, they had people maintaining their houses, and they were perfect because they had people dressing them.

Randi: 10:48

They had nannies, they had a maid, they had a hairstylist, and they had somebody who cooked for them and cleaned for them. They had a whole. Village, essentially. Yeah, like inside their homes. And it's now expected that we're the chauffeur, the coach, the teacher—you know, it's a lot. You're not alone.

Jess: 11:10

It is a lot. And so maybe that's where some of that came from. Yeah, you know, you had somebody who was ironing your linens. Because that was what their job was, you had a staff of housekeepers and servants. That helped keep your house up and now we don't have that but we're holding ourselves to the same kind of level

Randi: 11:30

right, and the same thing, like if we think back to even before that, when women lived in these villages, someone was responsible for the hunting. Someone was responsible for the gathering. Someone was responsible for the washing. Someone watched the children. So it was a cohesive group of women and men that worked together to make this community strong, and we don't have that anymore. Our society is not set up that way. We are very isolated. We live away from family. Usually, we don't have that core village anymore. We have friends and stuff that we can rely on, but it's not as intensive as it used to be. And so we are expected to fulfill all these roles, or we feel like we are because once upon a time, those roles were all filled by somebody in your village, but now, like, who do we reach for?

Jess: 12:26

Amazon. We reach for, like, you know, exactly the people that deliver the stuff. Somebody will do a dash, and because we are trying to figure it out, we're just handing money out to all these people. Hmm. Interesting. So let's look at what the signs are, though, of perfectionism. And we're talking about the harmful side of it, right? What are signs of perfectionism?

Randi: 12:48

Randy? Constant self-criticism, like your negative self-talk, the fear of failure, excessive attention to detail—and this is why you're so hyper-focused, though, on these things, too, that nothing else That might also be important that you're missing out on because you're so hyper-focused on the details of this being perfect. And we're talking

Jess: 13:13

What she's talking about is being present. You're not being present with your family and your kids. You're not. So that's harmful in a way, right? Oh, totally. You're not taking care of yourself. or resting when you need to rest because you're trying to make sure your kitchen is perfect. You're trying to mop your

Randi: 13:30

floor all the time. Or your presentation at work, or whatever. It's not just household. It can extend to so many areas of your life. And two, even when you are, another thing to look out for is feeling dissatisfied all the time. Even when you do achieve those things, you're like, okay, this still isn't enough or what I need to keep. Pushing myself and pushing myself and pushing myself, it's like, at what ends do you stop? And it's like, usually, when you're on the perfection train, as I like to call it there You know, you're out of control, and there's no brakes. So, what about perfectionism? Linked to imposter syndrome. So we also have an in-depth podcast on imposter syndrome. If you guys don't know what that is, that's like feeling like you're a fraud, even though you aren't, and that can be in anything you do in life. But how are these kind of linked or go hand in hand?

Jess: 14:25

Jess? So they are linked. They do go hand in hand because women who strive for perfection often feel like they are not deserving of their accomplishments, which leads to feelings of inadequacy and doubt. And as we've talked before, I started making those really cool boards. I have no idea what I'm doing. I mean, I do, actually, but if a woodworker starts talking to me, I'm like, I don't know what that is. I don't know what that is. And I could let it get to me, and I was like, Oh, I don't know what that is. I should know what this wording means.

Randi: 14:59

is. But what you do is look at it as a learning opportunity. Exactly.

Jess: 15:04

I was like, okay, so either I can figure this out. And, and, and do what I want to do. I'm not trying to compete with them. And that's when I had to get out of my head. Because I'm not trying to compete with the guy who's running the business to make those gigantic tables. He made these amazing stairs. And it's amazing. Yeah. That's not what I'm doing. You

Randi: 15:25

just want to make cool charcuterie boards. Yeah. And you want to know how to do it better, though. You want You're challenging yourself, but you're not aiming for perfectionism. You know this is a learning process.

Jess: 15:36

Exactly. And perfection isn't real. And so you can sit there and go. I've had women say, Oh, I could never do that because I've always wanted to do something like that, but I just, I don't know, my anxiety gets to me, and I'm afraid of what people might think, say or do. And I'm like, get out of your head.

Randi: 15:53

Yeah. And that's very true, too. On the flip side, with me being on social media, I will post a lot of style and fashion things and people will go, or even I've had a woman come up to me and say, I love your outfit. Oh my God, those pants. I could never wear that. And I said, Obviously you like it because you're liking it on me, and just because my body is different than yours doesn't mean you can't rock this, and I'm like, I always thought I could never do it until I tried it, and it really comes down to having that self-confidence in yourself and feeling that you are worthy enough to even try it or push that boundary for yourself, and you might find out that you're missing out on something or that you look great in that. But how are you going to know unless you even try? There's no way you could try it on and hate it. Or not like the way it makes you feel or, you know, if you don't even try it, How are you going to know like I was, okay? Well, I'll try this and see if I like it Oh my gosh, this looks great on me now. I know you know, and that's why I'm always like, Girl, just put on the pants or the shirt or the different color and try it out. Same thing, but you have to get that negative talk out of your head and shake it off that there is no perfect. You're not going to look like Heidi Klum or whoever it is you think you're trying to achieve. And that stuff

Jess: 17:09

is all airbrushed anyway. Did we not learn that in the last 20 years, they airbrushed the crap out of everything? Perfect doesn't exist. And part of it is that you have to not give a fuck. You just have to stop caring what other people think about you. Yeah. Exactly. And just live the way you want to live. I saw. I don't know if you know. Do you know who Henry Rollins is? Yeah. Ooh, I knew you'd be my friend for a reason. So I saw one of his spoken words; this is like 20 years ago. I love his spoken words. He just gets up there and he just talks And he said, We always say life's too short. And he said, Actually, life is too long. This totally stuck with me. Life is too long to waste it wasting it doing other stuff. We're always like, Life is short. No, it's long. Why would you want to torture yourself with this perfect idea or try to achieve something that's not achievable? And that doesn't make you happy. Exactly. Why do we want to keep living lives that we're not happy with? Mm hmm.

Randi: 18:19

Do you think perfectionism can be beneficial at all?

Jess: 18:23

I don't know. It's, it's, I think, if it's in a healthy, striving way, right? If you want to

Randi: 18:32

goal setting. Yes. That's conducive to your mental health.

Jess: 18:36

If, if I, It's the word perfectionism that I'm stammering over because I think perfectionism is harmful and will hinder us. But I feel that if we can set goals and have good boundaries, that's fantastic.

Randi: 18:53

And I think that's a great point to have boundaries around your expectations of what you can and can't achieve. I think this can shift from daily to weekly to monthly because you might be overwhelmed with certain things or certain seasons. For example, right now, I do not do well with living in the Pacific Northwest, and I don't do well with the great weather here. And so that limits what I expect of myself because it brings out my SAD, my seasonal affective disorder, and my seasonal depression. And so it's that I know I'm not going to be able to achieve as much as I normally would because of the lack of vitamin D I'm getting, and it affects my overall mood and being. So it's like creating your goals around what is

Jess: 19:39

realistic. And you talk about the seasons. I thought you were going to talk about the seasons of our lives. Well, that too. I have a 13-year-old and a 24-year-old. My house can be put together now because I don't have little toys all over the floor. Yeah. And so when you have toddlers, your house is kind of a hot mess with sticky hands everywhere because that's the season that they're

Randi: 20:00

in. And that season won't last forever. I think that's another thing too—realizing that this time and place are not forever. Like we said, time is fluid and it's constantly changing. And so you will make it through this season of your life. And I think that's important, as we are talking about overcoming perfectionism and prioritizing self-compassion. Because you really need to set those realistic goals. You need to challenge that negative self-talk, and you need to seek support, whether that's from a therapist, a friend or a loved one. And really focus on that self-care too.

Jess: 20:37

Exactly. If you don't have time to take a bubble bath because people are like, I don't have 45 minutes to myself, throw a shower steamer in your shower and just sit there for 10 minutes.

Randi: 20:49

minutes. I will do that. I will 100 percent do that. I'm like, I need something that's like a spa experience. So for me, because that's what I love,. If that's not what you love, that's fine. Find something that you love that you can do for five or 10 minutes. And I'm like, I will just lock everybody out of the bathroom and throw that in the corner of my shower, and I'm like, okay, breathe. And you

Jess: 21:07

You have to lock it because your toddler's going to come and ask you to open the fruit roll-ups that they can't open even though they were sitting next to dad on the couch. It doesn't; you're going to have to lock the door and be like, Your dad's in charge or somebody else is in charge. I need 10 minutes to

Randi: 21:21

myself. Yeah, like one of my girlfriends, she was going on a girls trip, and she was like, Oh, I don't have any outfits, and I said come shop my closet because I have, you know, an abnormal amount of clothes. She does, actually. And she was like, But I'll have my little girl with me. And I said, That's fine. I'll watch her. So she came over for an hour, and I played with her baby while she tried on clothes. It was fine to find friends like that who can support you so you can have that hour, that 30 minutes or whatever it is. So how can therapy or counseling play a role in helping women with perfectionism?

Jess: 22:00

Find a good therapist; this is one of Randi's triggers; she thinks that a lot of them stink. Find a good therapist to help provide a safe and supportive space for you to explore these things. When women go to therapy, sometimes they don't really want to tell you what's on their mind. And again, you don't have to tell your therapist everything. You don't need to; it's not like confession. Tell them what you want, but if you're not going to be honest with yourself or them, then you're not ready for therapy. But find someone to help explore these areas with you. And, sometimes, therapy looks different. People think it's okay; I don't sit there and go tell me how you feel and just be really quiet, right? I'm going to engage you in a conversation, and we're going to talk. Yeah, we're going to explore

Randi: 22:52

it, right? So find a therapist that works for you, whether you want it or not. Somebody that just listens to you, whether you want somebody that engages you or somebody that challenges you, I'm the type of therapist that will challenge you. And that's not for everybody, because a lot of people don't want to be called out on their bullshit, but But if you're not ready

Jess: 23:10

to be called out on your bullshit, then you may not be I mean, there's also gentle ways to be called out on your bullshit. I'm not

Randi: 23:15

saying, like, I do that. It depends on the client you know, but, um, you know, you really need to find somebody that you feel safe with. Yeah,

Jess: 23:23

and you, I help challenge some of society's norms with women. I want people to realize that that is not normal. Or I want them to realize that how they're living right now is how everybody else is living. And it's this really interesting thing that, like, I find themes in the week. I've noticed, probably five or six years ago, that there are themes that come out of therapy each week. And it's a really interesting thing because it's whatever's going on in the world at the time. It's whatever is going on during the holiday season—the weather. And it's interesting because I work with a couple of different states. It's interesting that it flows through all of them. And at first, I thought it was me. I had to check myself. Am I the one who's bringing these here? Yeah, is it me? And I'm like, no, not by Wednesday morning. I've already figured out what the theme of the week is. I should have started writing it down. Yeah, but I don't. I'm always like, I should do that. But I'm like, I always forget. But there's like a theme of what people are going through. I mentioned earlier that a couple weeks ago, it was living out of our clean laundry baskets. That was the theme that week, and it was because people were preparing for the holidays, right? And so it's just interesting to see that we all go through these themes, but we don't share or talk about them. And so we don't, so we feel alone, and so we're striving to be perfect and meet up with somebody else who's doing the same thing you're doing. I just think it's interesting.

Randi: 25:01

That leads to fostering a community that can support you through this because it feels like we don't have that. At times some of us have been able to find that and build that, but so many people, I feel, don't, and so that's why you really need to reach out and share what you're going through so you can find other people that are like-minded or join support groups or a mom group or whatever that looks like a sewing group, anything that can offer support and challenge what you're feeling or make you feel like you're not alone. You

Jess: 25:35

I love that you mentioned a sewing group. One of my friends, I know, one of my friends who lives across the street. I'm very lucky. She quilts. I don't quilt. I don't sew. I like patterns, and she knows I do my art stuff. And so sometimes she'll have me over and be like, Okay, what do you think about this pattern? Or what do you think about this? I was like, Yeah, I can tell you what I don't like about it. I can't tell you necessarily; I'm not always the best at being like, Oh, this would look good here and here. She went and created a quilting group at her work. I was like, That is so cool. And they meet like once a month, and they bring their patterns and ask questions. And

Randi: 26:14

probably people she would have never met before or known that they were into quilting. I find that sometimes you think, Oh, this person wouldn't be into what I'm into. And then you find out who they are. Because, again, you've put these thoughts or these perceptions on other people. And then you're missing out on that. And

Jess: 26:36

you don't reach out to find out Hey, anybody in here quilt? Does anybody here quilt? But she figured out a small group of women at her work who quilt, and they got together and talked about it. And I was like, That is the coolest thing ever. The coolest thing ever.

Randi: 26:50

So what are some great resources and books that we recommend for women who are struggling with perfectionism?

Jess: 26:57

Okay, so you guys know my Brene Brown thing, The Gifts of Imperfection. Yeah, that's a great one. That is one of the best ones because once you can embrace your inner imperfection and realize that it's normal, that's when you start really becoming comfortable in your own skin, in your own body, and in your own life. What's another

Randi: 27:19

one, Randi? The Art of Imperfection by Erica Engel, and we will list these on our website, womensmentalhealthpodcast.com, too. And Perfectly Imperfect, and this one is The Art of Imperfection. Yoga practice. So it's another way to deal with mindfulness in a physical way. That's awesome.

Jess: 27:40

That is really awesome. I love when people do trauma yoga. And they do some of these processes in your body. It's so cool. Like how we hold all of the stuff in our body.

Randi: 27:51

Yes. There is so much stress and tension in our bodies that we don't even

Jess: 27:54

realize. Yes. And we like that one podcast we did on somatic breathing. Yes. That one was really cool because that was just

Randi: 28:02

whew. Yeah, it is. And so how can we work on shifting our mindset from this perfection mindset to one of self-acceptance?

Jess: 28:14

Okay, so I'm just going to say this. My grandmother used to say this. I'm not sure if it was a one-time thing, but it stuck with me forever. She would say, Fuck them if they can't take a joke. I can

Randi: 28:28

Just picture what your grandma is saying.

Jess: 28:31

She was just like, Fuck them if they can't take a joke. And what I got from that was basically to live your life. Yeah. Go do what you want. So if we can learn to shift from perfectionism to self-acceptance, this involves embracing our imperfections and knowing and acknowledging the personal growth piece that we were talking about earlier. Yeah,

Randi: 28:54

just loving yourself and understanding that you are worthy. Say that out loud. I am worthy.

Jess: 29:01

I am worthy. And if you need to know what worthy is and hear it again, we just did a podcast on that one a couple of weeks ago, too. Really, you are worthy of cultivating that sense of worthiness. It's beyond the external validation stuff from anybody else.

Randi: 29:21

So when we're coping with perfectionism, it really involves. understanding that perfectionism is not achievable and embracing who you are as a human being and all the parts of you—your body, your mind, and your soul—and loving all of that together. And then really setting realistic and attainable goals. We podcast about how to set goals like this. We talk about setting them within time frames that you can achieve and things like that. So you're not setting yourself up for failure. And again, really challenging that negative self-talk. What are a few other things that we can do? I

Jess: 30:07

want to actually explore negative self-talk. I love that you said it once about imagining something like a stop sign. Yeah, that's my favorite. When I say stop sign, I'm also putting my hand out as a stop sign. So I do both. But imagine when you say yourself first. I want you guys to catch it. When you say something negative about yourself at first, just catch it and acknowledge it. Don't beat yourself up. Don't go. Oh, I shouldn't do that. Just say, Oh, I'm not being very kind. Acknowledge when you're doing it, how you're doing it, and where you're doing it. And I

Randi: 30:42

do this daily with myself. This is not a constant that we, as women, need to battle. And it gets better and better the more you do it. It's practice. But it's a constant practice. And so, don't think that you're alone in this. I tell myself all the time, okay, why are you beating yourself up about this, Randy? Let's reevaluate this and look at it from a different perspective.

Jess: 31:04

Exactly. Imagine. Stop, be kind, and then rephrase it for yourself. I want you to reframe whatever your thought was. I shouldn't be late. It's okay that I'm late. I've let him know. I've already been told that there's nothing else going on. Whatever it is,. Oh, I look awful in this outfit. Maybe I don't like this outfit.

Randi: 31:28

Challenge yourself, though. Challenge. Do I really look awful in this outfit, or am I just saying that, or am I just thinking that's what's going on? Yeah, and what's good about this, or what will I change next time so I feel better about this? Things

Jess: 31:43

like that. And if you don't like the outfit, just go get rid of it and find it; don't wear stuff you don't like. And don't keep it in our clothes and

Randi: 31:49

our closet. Or stuff that makes you feel bad about yourself or doesn't fit right and makes you feel uncomfortable, and those things just nag at us and drag us down. And then we're like, Oh, I

Jess: 31:57

should be wearing this. No, get rid of it. Yeah. Okay. So something else is that we can learn to prioritize our self-care, right? We can set healthy boundaries and seek support from loved ones, professionals or friends. I really want to emphasize healthy boundaries. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries, and boundaries. Yes! We talk about this all

Randi: 32:19

the time, and we have lots of articles, too, up on our website about how to deal with boundaries and like examples of what you can do, and we've done a couple podcasts, too, on the importance of boundaries. Mm

Jess: 32:33

hmm. And if you are still struggling with perfectionism and it's causing you harm, I want you to think about this. If this is causing me harm, I need to get help with it. This is not something you need to do. Yeah,

Randi: 32:47

and harm, we're not talking about physical harm, though, if that is part of it, yes, but also the harm that you're doing to your mental health, your well-being, and your self confidence or not being present with your family, if you're harming yourself in emotional ways as well, like it's a time to step back and assess, like, what's going on and do I need help with this?

Jess: 33:11

And it's okay to get help. It is okay to say I am struggling and I need help. So I want you to remember that progress. Perfection is not the goal. Mm

Randi: 33:24

hmm. So let's Learning. Growing.

Jess: 33:26

Yeah. Celebrate the accomplishments that you're making and practice self-kindness. Failure is not Failure is how

Randi: 33:34

we learn. And we talked about this in a previous podcast: failing is not failing.

Jess: 33:39

No. Failing is growing. It's growing and learning. And I don't know where we taught our kids or ourselves that failure is bad. say it's

Randi: 33:47

like falling forward. Yes. Because you're like gaining something from that, and then you can pick yourself up and move forward with that. Yeah. How do we

Jess: 33:55

learn to walk? Well, we fall. We figure out that's not it. We want to do something different. Failing forward is a concept.

Randi: 34:02

That's a wrap for today. We hope this episode has shed some light on the impact of perfectionism on women's mental health and has offered you some great strategies to cope. You can find more on womensmentalhealthpodcast.com, and we will talk to you

Jess: 34:16

next week. I want you to remember that nobody is perfect, and that's what makes each of us uniquely beautiful. Love it. Bye. Bye.