Helping or Enabling: Where do you draw the line?

WEBVTT

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Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast.

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I'm randy.

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I'm And I'm Jess.

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And we are two licensed psychotherapists, and this is a safe space where we talk about mental health, well being, and strategies for coping with life's challenges.

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And how all of this is normal, and you are not alone.

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Today we're tackling a topic that many of us grapple with in our own relationships.

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Whether with your partner, your children, your friends, or your family.

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We're talking about helping versus enabling.

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We're going to go ahead and define what this means.

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I know they sound very similar, but we're going to discuss why it's so important to understand that there is a difference.

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And we're also going to look at how it affects our mental health as women, as caregivers, as, Children.

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Yes.

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Kin keepers.

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Kin

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keepers.

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All of it.

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So find us and more resources on womensmentalhealthpodcast.

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com.

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Have you ever had these thoughts?

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What distinguishes

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helping from enabling?

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How can I tell if I'm enabling someone?

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Why do we sometimes enable others when we're trying to actually help them?

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Can enabling damage a relationship?

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Totally.

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What are some examples of enabling behavior?

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How do I stop enabling and start helping so that it becomes more effective?

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That is

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a hard

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one, right?

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Yeah.

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Cause that's why we're talking about this difference because sometimes it's very hard to differentiate.

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And then you're like, crap, I've been doing this for so long.

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How do I switch it?

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What should I do if I recognize enabling behavior

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in myself?

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And is it okay to help someone financially without the enabling piece of it?

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Hmm.

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That's actually, yeah, because how do you know the difference?

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How can I set boundaries without feeling guilty or selfish?

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That is such a thing.

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Yeah.

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And should I feel responsible for the behavior of the person I'm trying to help?

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We always do, don't we?

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We do, especially as women.

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I think that we take that on.

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Like we feel it's like our fault if somebody feels a certain

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way.

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So first let's start with defining these terms, helping, is when you provide support to someone that empowers them to manage their own life more effectively.

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It's about giving them the tools, the guidance, or temporary assistance that they may need.

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Temporary.

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Temporary.

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Let's highlight that word.

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Temporary.

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Yes.

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That they need to overcome their challenges.

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Cause we all need help at some point in our life.

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Oh yeah.

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Always.

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It's not saying you shouldn't help people, but now Randy, what is the difference?

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What is enabling?

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So enabling on the other hand, is when you assist someone in a way that is allowing them or your.

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in a way encouraging them to continue an unhealthy pattern or behavior.

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So that often involves, say, removing consequences from their actions.

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So there's no boundaries around how you are assisting them in this.

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And this prevents them from learning or growing from their experiences.

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And this dynamic in a relationship can really lead to where this person never truly takes responsible for it.

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Responsibility for their own life and that can create all sorts of other issues.

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Oh,

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totally.

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So the reason we're calling looking at helping versus enabling is because these both of these approaches, they look so similar when you're looking at him on the surface.

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Both provide, some form of assistance.

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But what this is in the long term impact, they're so different, helping fosters independence and resilience while enabling, it perpetrates dependence and can really reinforce negative behaviors.

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It's that whole thing.

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What you teach someone, if you give somebody a fish, they'll eat for a day, but if you teach them to fish, they'll eat for a lifetime, right?

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So that is the difference.

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And then as women, this can really impact our mental health because like we were saying, especially those of us who are in caregiving roles, we often struggle with the gray areas or the fine lines between helping and enabling, especially if it's someone that we care so deeply about and we want the best for them.

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But at what point are you destroying their own will to rise up, we have a desire to nurture and protect those we care about, but we don't want to create a pattern where they're not learning and they're not able to have their own thoughts about it.

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And they're not able to pull themselves out of a situation.

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when we do that.

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It can cause stress and anxiety and you can even, form resentment towards the person or you can feel trapped by this pattern of behavior of constantly rescuing the person over and over and over again and it can be at your own mental health well being like at the expense of yourself because you're just giving and giving and you don't know like where to cut the cord or where to put the boundary.

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Because you feel bad.

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You already set, you set this up.

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And I see this a lot with our children.

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I see this with so many people now struggling

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with their children.

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Yeah.

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At all different age ranges and even young adults, especially.

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Exactly.

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Because we live in these nicer homes, We've worked a long time.

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We've, we have struggled.

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We've done the top ramen, meal plan in college.

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The beans and the tortillas and yeah.

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Exactly.

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Spaghetti for a week with no meat, just sauce.

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Yeah.

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we've earned the right to live in these homes or we have earned the income to afford things, whereas our children have grown up with it.

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And there's a different thing going on in our generations now.

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And so now they're like, well, what do you mean?

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I can't take the SodaStream with me.

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Yeah, this entitlement.

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Yeah, no, no,

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no, that's mine.

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It's mine, my SodaStream, thank you very much.

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You can't afford the cartridges.

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Yeah, I want the Nugget Ice Machine.

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No, it took me 40 years to get a Nugget Ice Machine.

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You gotta wait 40 years for your own.

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Exactly.

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I don't know, it's hard because it's right now the Alabama Rush is going on on TikTok and it's people are thinking that this is normal and it's not.

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No, I had a

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friend who just dropped her child off first apartment going into grad school and she was like, she didn't even think about toilet paper.

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She was trying to match her stuff, but not worried about how she was going to wipe her butt.

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So she was like, I'm going to bring some toilet paper.

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All the

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decor, but nothing.

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She's so I'm

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going to bring, some toilet paper and top ramen for her.

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Because she's so not thinking about the basics because it's all been provided.

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And so is that helping or enabling?

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A lot of us grew up like being so independent and poor and being very independent from a young age.

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If, especially if we have a single parent in the household, being a latchkey kid.

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And we were always like, We're uber independent, and I feel like we padded our kids, wanting them to have things that we didn't have, and now we're like, oh shit they don't know

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how to function.

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They don't.

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Or they just, when they come home, our oldest has come home for a little bit, it's become very comfortable, because it's very comfortable when you live with mom or dad, because you don't gotta do anything a whole lot.

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And it is very difficult, because I'm like, I think we're enabling versus helping.

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Whereas we want to help, but at what point do we start enabling?

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And you said it earlier, Cause women fall into this enabling trap so easy where it ends up affecting our self esteem because we end up feeling responsible for somebody else's happiness or success or.

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Yeah.

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Even worse, we feel responsible for their failures, and that's a tough one.

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It's that we're like, oh, it's our fault we did this.

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Look at what you were just saying about, we brought our kids up like this, and now we're like, oh shit.

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is that our fault?

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Are we gonna take responsibility for that?

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But as moms, I think we do, but that is not a realistic or fair burden for us to carry.

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Not at all.

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No.

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And so this dynamic can really drain us emotionally.

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And burnout.

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You've seen me in the last couple of months.

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I have been burnt out and lost my shit so many times.

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Yeah.

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Well,

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I feel like you want to give this adult child the independence of an adult, but somehow you still need to manage them because they haven't really launched out of the nest yet.

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And you're like, so you're caught in between do I try to manage this or what is happening here?

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I don't know.

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It's like this give and take and pull and stress and and I don't want to

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parent an adult.

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Child, but then when they live at home, what happens?

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Do they end up regressing back to their teen years?

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And it's Oh fuck, we're doing that again.

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And you don't want to do that.

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So how Randy, are we supposed to normalize and embrace and like really show support for a healthier approach versus just enabling them?

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Well, first we need to recognize the signs of enabling, like Say am I enabling or is, my partner enabling?

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What is happening?

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If you find yourself frequently rescuing someone from the consequences of their actions, or if you are doing things for them that they are capable of doing for themselves, you might be enabling rather than helping.

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Why does that make me want to laugh?

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Isn't there like a joke somewhere where you might be enabling if you're doing this?

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Isn't

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that a commercial?

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I'm sure there's some like meme or something like that, but it was the same thing.

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Like my oldest just turned 18.

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And so when that happens, like they cut off, like you don't have access to like medical records or like pharmacy or like anything.

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And she was like, what is this?

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I don't want to do this this is, and I'm like, you have to learn how to do this.

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You have to learn how to make your own doctor's appointments.

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I don't have access to this anymore.

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I can't see if you need, something refilled, like all these little things that I was doing for her.

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And she's and she's I don't want to do it.

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Like you do it.

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And I'm like, no, you need to learn how to do it.

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So here's the phone.

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Here's the information.

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Make your own account.

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Like you, you have to do it.

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We used to call them life lessons.

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You need to pump your own gas.

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Why don't you pump mom's gas so you can learn and not be scared how to do it.

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There are these things that you have to go learn to do.

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And so I think it's really cool.

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My daughter is taking a class this semester as a freshman where she, they're doing finances.

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Yeah, that's really important.

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They don't do that enough in schools.

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They don't teach kids about budgeting, financing, anything like that.

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That's what all of this class is about.

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And I'm like, Oh, thank goodness.

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I'm so glad that that is one of the classes she has because they need to learn how to do it.

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Not just balance a checkbook, but how do we get a loan?

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How does buying a house work?

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What is a credit

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score?

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Like how, what is, like the debt to income ratio, like things that took me like 20 years to figure out on my own because I had, nobody, yeah, no training about that.

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And another very important thing to do as, and we always talk about this.

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is set clear boundaries.

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So Jess, can you talk about that a little bit?

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Yes, because I should have had somebody whack myself in the head about three months ago for this.

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Okay, so when you're setting clear boundaries, it is very important in, to make healthy, let me start over.

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That was cute.

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At least it wasn't me.

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I was

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like, oh, hey, coffee coming back.

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Boundaries are so important to maintain healthy relationships and really protect our mental health.

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And this is why Randy and I are always saying boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

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We want to be clear and we want you to be clear about what you are willing and not willing to do and really sticking to those limits.

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Remember that when you say no, it doesn't mean you don't care and that's the hard part.

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That's what we have to learn as women is that.

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Just because we say no and we, and somebody doesn't like it, it doesn't mean that we don't care or that we're mean.

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Yeah, it's, they might, they might say that to you, but that's.

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That's not it.

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I guarantee you in the long run, your kids will probably thank you.

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Exactly.

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Cause what it really means is that you care about both yourself and the other person enough to really encourage them to grow and be responsible.

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And that's the thing is that, even I was just telling Randy earlier is that I started to go back on one of my boundaries and it slapped me in the face real quick.

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I was kind of like,

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no, no, no, no, you didn't.

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And she's wait, hold on.

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I gotta tell you the whole story.

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Let me tell you the whole thing.

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And then I was like.

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Oh, nope.

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Let's go back to my boundaries.

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Cause you're right.

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Every time I try to deter, it's it, there's a reason you set those boundaries and you just have to stick to them.

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And sometimes it sucks when you have to stick to them and it sucks that you're in that position.

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But again, are you enabling or are you helping every time you decide you want to break your own boundary?

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Because what you're doing is showing that there's no consequences.

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And

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then you both end up back at square one, because the person you're trying to instill a boundary with thinks that they got away, usually with something else.

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And then you're back with, Oh, FML, like I'm stuck in the same, stressful, circle I was before.

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And so another key factor is communication then.

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That And boundaries go hand in hand, you have to have open, honest conversations about your concerns and about the changes you'd like to see and why, why is it impacting them?

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Why is it impacting you?

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Why is it impacting your family as a whole?

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And really encouraging that person to see all sides of it.

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And so they can take ownership for their actions.

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And that you can offer support then in a way that empowers them rather than enabling them.

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Okay maybe you're nervous about doing this.

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Like, when I was talking to my daughter about you have to take over your medical stuff.

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I was like, how about I stay with you, the first time.

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And I'll walk you through this is how I do it.

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Or show you how to make the account and things like that.

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And, like, how to contact the doctor.

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Okay, now I've shown you.

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Take flight, so in these things with that communication, you can offer advice, you can offer resources or you can just be there to listen.

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You don't have to take it all over.

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You don't have to take that burden on as your own.

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And you don't have to fix the problem, right?

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Because if you keep fixing the problem, They're never going to learn to do it on their own.

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I think that's the hardest part.

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You and I always talk about failing forward That is how I learn is oh shit that didn't work I got to do it a different way and it's

00:14:35.539 --> 00:14:42.009
hard to watch our kids fail But I try to tell my kids same thing It's not a failure.

00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:43.580
It's not a mistake.

00:14:43.649 --> 00:14:44.480
It's learning.

00:14:44.509 --> 00:14:49.190
And I think that we have to have that talk with ourselves too, that our kids aren't failing.

00:14:49.269 --> 00:14:52.379
Our kids aren't, they're not, it's not the end of the world.

00:14:52.529 --> 00:14:55.850
This is just a new way for them to learn and to grow.

00:14:55.899 --> 00:14:57.894
And failing shouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

00:14:57.894 --> 00:14:58.735
bad thing.

00:14:58.735 --> 00:15:00.294
It means that you're trying.

00:15:00.615 --> 00:15:04.455
And so I wish we could get out of failure being a bad thing.

00:15:04.485 --> 00:15:04.695
Yeah.

00:15:04.695 --> 00:15:05.264
We need to change

00:15:05.264 --> 00:15:06.384
our mindset about

00:15:06.384 --> 00:15:06.664
it.

00:15:06.774 --> 00:15:07.384
Exactly.

00:15:07.384 --> 00:15:08.735
Cause I fail forward.

00:15:08.764 --> 00:15:11.674
I learned how to do things by not learning how to do things.

00:15:11.884 --> 00:15:15.125
And that is how a lot of us work is, hands on.

00:15:15.375 --> 00:15:16.830
How do I figure this out?

00:15:17.289 --> 00:15:19.769
How do you know that the parking sucks the first day of school?

00:15:19.779 --> 00:15:24.320
Well, all of us know in college that the parking sucks for about four weeks, right?

00:15:24.370 --> 00:15:35.649
And then after four weeks when the drops are, put in exactly it gets a lot better and you're like, okay great Until finals come again, but how do you learn that you can tell your child they may not listen They have to experience it.

00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:37.669
They have to experience it and they're like, oh my god.

00:15:37.669 --> 00:15:40.629
It was a zoo Yeah, it totally was a zoo and guess what?

00:15:40.940 --> 00:15:44.000
It's going to be better in four weeks when everybody drops and they're like really?

00:15:44.350 --> 00:15:49.750
Oh, yeah, you'll see Four weeks and that is that's how we learned too, is that it just sucked.

00:15:50.210 --> 00:15:52.399
You're late for class or something happens.

00:15:52.690 --> 00:16:01.110
So if you're struggling though with determining if this is enabling or helping, go get support for yourself.

00:16:01.330 --> 00:16:07.879
Talk to a therapist, join a support group, join a mom's group, figure out what your coping strategies are.

00:16:08.075 --> 00:16:14.654
Because these resources can really help you navigate how emotionally draining a lot of this can be.

00:16:14.924 --> 00:16:20.695
And it is so hard when it's in your personal space, especially when it's in your personal space.

00:16:20.884 --> 00:16:29.875
Well, yeah, especially if it's in the household and it's disrupting the household or that person is acting out because you're putting up boundaries or, things are changing.

00:16:30.875 --> 00:16:33.394
It is hard to make that change.

00:16:33.404 --> 00:16:57.654
And that's another step of this is really normalizing the process of change and that yes, things at time will be disruptive or won't be, flowing like they're supposed to, but it's okay and it is okay to decide that you don't want to enable anymore and you want to make this change and yeah, it might be a rougher, at first when you're putting up those boundaries and you're trying to communicate and make those changes.

00:16:58.605 --> 00:17:26.424
Be patient with yourself and be patient with the other person and have empathy for yourself when change is coming and really celebrate the small victories and the small wins when you are making changes like this in your life or helping your child instead of enabling them and like we said, don't be afraid to ask for help or talk to a friend who can hold you accountable, who's going through the same thing or talk to a therapist who can hold you accountable or help you role play with things.

00:17:26.444 --> 00:17:28.884
That you need to talk about, with this person in your life.

00:17:29.255 --> 00:17:29.535
Yeah.

00:17:29.545 --> 00:17:30.035
Practice.

00:17:30.045 --> 00:17:36.984
Sometimes you have to practice the sentences so that you know how to say it or have a line.

00:17:37.984 --> 00:17:38.744
You're out of control.

00:17:39.744 --> 00:17:42.335
Or have a line where, this is the line.

00:17:42.335 --> 00:17:43.335
This is the boundary.

00:17:43.335 --> 00:17:48.555
I'm going to keep repeating this, peat and repeat just because that's going to be safe and it keeps you safe.

00:17:48.555 --> 00:17:51.994
So let's go back now and let's answer some of our have you evers, Randy.

00:17:52.315 --> 00:17:52.605
Okay.

00:17:52.605 --> 00:17:55.744
So just so what distinguishes helping from enabling?

00:17:55.744 --> 00:17:55.785
Helping.

00:17:56.315 --> 00:18:02.815
Okay, so helping is an act that supports and encourages independence and growth.

00:18:03.234 --> 00:18:06.575
It is empowering another to solve their own problems.

00:18:06.595 --> 00:18:08.234
And that's a huge piece right there.

00:18:08.454 --> 00:18:11.085
To solve their own problems.

00:18:11.105 --> 00:18:13.535
They have to actually recognize it's a problem.

00:18:13.865 --> 00:18:17.634
Not you telling him it's a problem, especially if it's a child, you go and tell him it's a problem.

00:18:18.075 --> 00:18:19.535
They're not going to do anything about it.

00:18:19.535 --> 00:18:20.154
Yeah, it doesn't compute.

00:18:20.305 --> 00:18:21.184
It doesn't compute.

00:18:21.234 --> 00:18:22.805
They don't like it, whatever.

00:18:23.005 --> 00:18:26.285
So you have to let them solve their own problem.

00:18:26.585 --> 00:18:31.555
Whereas enabling means assisting in these negative behaviors.

00:18:31.865 --> 00:18:34.505
It prevents their own personal growth.

00:18:34.555 --> 00:18:36.845
It prevents their self reliance.

00:18:37.174 --> 00:18:37.244
And it helps.

00:18:37.384 --> 00:18:41.315
And it removes any kind of natural consequences for their actions.

00:18:41.335 --> 00:18:46.654
And we talk about that in our house a lot is that there's natural consequences for all of our actions.

00:18:46.785 --> 00:18:50.505
If I decide to speed, Okay, that's a choice that I'm making.

00:18:50.565 --> 00:18:51.805
I can get a ticket.

00:18:52.174 --> 00:18:52.595
Great.

00:18:52.644 --> 00:18:56.144
I'm not gonna argue with the cop that I'm speeding because I know I was.

00:18:56.244 --> 00:18:57.285
I'm gonna pay a ticket.

00:18:57.914 --> 00:18:59.555
I, that is a consequence.

00:18:59.795 --> 00:19:05.474
And so it is something that I'm choosing to do and you, you have to own up to it.

00:19:05.595 --> 00:19:06.654
We talked about it earlier.

00:19:06.684 --> 00:19:07.305
Own your shit.

00:19:07.704 --> 00:19:08.194
Yeah.

00:19:08.305 --> 00:19:08.634
Yep.

00:19:08.654 --> 00:19:09.345
I was speeding.

00:19:09.454 --> 00:19:09.775
Yep.

00:19:09.785 --> 00:19:10.355
Yes, sir.

00:19:10.625 --> 00:19:15.174
And that is, that is being honest and, and a natural consequence.

00:19:15.815 --> 00:19:18.884
So Randy, how can I tell if I'm enabling somebody?

00:19:18.884 --> 00:19:19.714
Cause that's huge.

00:19:19.924 --> 00:19:32.214
So again, enabling can often feel like you're doing what's needed, but then it's allowing that person to continue this negative behavior without facing those natural consequences.

00:19:32.214 --> 00:19:34.934
So again, let's use the speeding ticket thing.

00:19:34.934 --> 00:19:36.174
So you're like.

00:19:36.484 --> 00:19:39.884
Oh, you tell your, your kid, you just started driving.

00:19:39.884 --> 00:19:40.865
This is what's going to happen.

00:19:40.865 --> 00:19:44.535
If you speed, you're going to get a ticket and then you're going to need to pay it.

00:19:44.825 --> 00:19:45.154
Okay.

00:19:45.154 --> 00:19:48.545
Well, they speed, they get the ticket and then you pay it because you just don't want to do it.

00:19:49.045 --> 00:19:51.055
So where is the consequence for them?

00:19:51.065 --> 00:19:54.015
Because now you're paying it and you're probably paying their car insurance too.

00:19:54.204 --> 00:19:59.634
So they're like, oh, well, it doesn't matter because I don't really need to be held accountable for that.

00:19:59.634 --> 00:20:00.565
I don't need to pay it.

00:20:00.575 --> 00:20:03.464
My parents paid it and that's a sign of enabling.

00:20:03.515 --> 00:20:03.884
And.

00:20:04.214 --> 00:20:09.974
That's you can also feel like maybe you're sacrificing your well being for theirs.

00:20:10.285 --> 00:20:25.045
So you keep, you know overextending yourself or making, going into things around yeah, or going into debt because of this that or the other because you want to appease them and in the end, you're not really helping them.

00:20:25.404 --> 00:20:33.194
Jess, why do we sometimes enable people when we really feel like we want to be helping, but we're not helping?

00:20:33.914 --> 00:20:37.115
I think that for the most part, our hearts are in the right place.

00:20:37.174 --> 00:20:40.045
We really want to help people.

00:20:40.055 --> 00:20:42.085
We want to alleviate their pain.

00:20:42.234 --> 00:20:42.464
Or

00:20:42.484 --> 00:20:43.664
perceived pain.

00:20:43.664 --> 00:20:43.954
Yeah.

00:20:43.954 --> 00:20:44.384
That we might think.

00:20:45.015 --> 00:20:47.545
Or uncomfortable, that they're going to be uncomfortable with things.

00:20:47.575 --> 00:21:03.585
Yeah, and we really want, especially if we care about them, but sometimes our desire to protect can really cross that line into preventing others from facing their own needed challenges and it really hinders their chances of growing stronger.

00:21:03.585 --> 00:21:05.750
Again, This is how I learn.

00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:08.589
I learn by not, by learning what not to do.

00:21:09.130 --> 00:21:10.799
And a lot of people learn like that.

00:21:10.829 --> 00:21:14.970
And so when we constantly are doing it for them, my kid, here you go.

00:21:15.049 --> 00:21:16.579
My youngest is afraid of the oven.

00:21:17.470 --> 00:21:19.150
She is afraid of the oven.

00:21:19.259 --> 00:21:26.059
She, she accidentally burnt herself once a long time ago when she was like nine, and now she won't put anything in or out of the oven.

00:21:26.549 --> 00:21:30.250
So I have stopped doing this because this is five years ago.

00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:33.750
And so I won't put it in and out of the oven for her, but she wants to bake cookies.

00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:34.569
So what does she do?

00:21:34.849 --> 00:21:36.130
She knows not to ask me.

00:21:36.150 --> 00:21:40.210
She goes and now asks her brother, because he hasn't said no yet.

00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:45.200
Cause I'm like, dude, you need to learn if you want to bake cookies, you need to learn to take it out of the oven.

00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:46.569
I'm not going to always be

00:21:46.569 --> 00:21:47.009
there to

00:21:47.009 --> 00:21:47.319
do that.

00:21:47.410 --> 00:21:49.569
I'm not going to always be there to take out your cookies.

00:21:49.970 --> 00:21:52.839
And to this day, she'll be like, she knows not to come ask me.

00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:54.410
She'll ask dad or brother.

00:21:54.569 --> 00:21:54.869
Yeah.

00:21:54.910 --> 00:21:57.329
Because they still haven't put up a boundary with her.

00:21:57.329 --> 00:21:57.759
So she's,

00:21:58.670 --> 00:22:01.519
she just figured out a workaround to get somebody else to do it.

00:22:01.670 --> 00:22:08.970
And I'm like, all right, well, one day you're going to be in your own house and you're not going to know how to make that, hot pocket that you have, because you don't have a microwave.

00:22:08.980 --> 00:22:10.549
Cause we didn't enable you.

00:22:11.430 --> 00:22:12.579
I don't know what to tell you.

00:22:12.579 --> 00:22:14.880
And so I'm like, you need to learn to do this.

00:22:14.890 --> 00:22:16.619
And she's just ah, I'm freaking out.

00:22:16.650 --> 00:22:17.289
It's really funny.

00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:19.960
Okay, so Randi, can enabling damage relationships?

00:22:20.170 --> 00:22:21.940
Oh, a hundred percent, yeah.

00:22:21.940 --> 00:22:31.980
So when we enable, it can really breed dependency and then resentment, especially if you don't follow through with what that person is dependent on.

00:22:32.369 --> 00:22:35.710
And then it leads to burnout in the enabler.

00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:41.009
And I feel like this can really cause a huge strain in especially adults.

00:22:41.259 --> 00:22:43.440
Child, relationships or your marriage.

00:22:43.470 --> 00:22:55.420
Yeah, or your marriage because maybe one's an enabler and one's not and then you're hitting heads about that and you're not communicating with your partner or you're going against maybe what your, your partner's wishes about this.

00:22:55.430 --> 00:22:56.650
And that's very hard.

00:22:56.650 --> 00:23:04.599
Like in our family, and I know to injustice family, like we always say your father and I, or your, the partner and I, we talk to each other.

00:23:04.690 --> 00:23:04.890
Oh, yes.

00:23:04.950 --> 00:23:06.940
You're not going to be able to pull one over.

00:23:06.970 --> 00:23:13.990
Cause I used to be able to like, talk to my dad and talk to my mom and neither one knew what was going on and, to get what I wanted.

00:23:13.990 --> 00:23:20.329
And I was always like, no, your dad and I are always on the same page and we tell each other what's happening.

00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:23.130
So you can't pull this, over on us.

00:23:23.490 --> 00:23:48.299
And because healthy relationships are built on balance, and when there's an imbalance like that, and you're just giving and giving and giving, and this person is taking and taking and taking, there's no mutual growth, and so that relationship can't be healthy, and then when you can't learn from those life challenges, It leaves you feeling, I think, empty and useless in a way if you don't know how to contribute.

00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:55.470
It might be nice, when you're younger to go along and not have any challenges in life, but, you know It's nice as adults, too.

00:23:55.490 --> 00:23:55.839
Let's be real.

00:23:55.839 --> 00:23:56.289
I mean I

00:23:56.289 --> 00:23:57.599
really would like to have no challenges either.

00:23:57.599 --> 00:23:59.230
Sure, I would like to be an heiress

00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:00.049
and live my life.

00:24:00.059 --> 00:24:04.619
But I wouldn't be the person I am today if I hadn't have had the struggles that I had.

00:24:04.630 --> 00:24:05.289
Then I hadn't.

00:24:05.609 --> 00:24:10.039
I've had to learn on my own and I hadn't have gone through, dark periods in life.

00:24:10.069 --> 00:24:13.279
And when I look back on it, would I change those things?

00:24:13.339 --> 00:24:14.930
I usually say a hundred percent.

00:24:14.950 --> 00:24:25.529
No, I wouldn't change those struggles because it's brought me to a place where I know my worth and I know what I have learned and I am a better person for it.

00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:28.704
And it's hard to see that in the long what did they say?

00:24:28.704 --> 00:24:41.744
Well, when you're sitting in a minute, hindsight is 20, 20, or you can't see the forest for the trees, whatever those things are, and that's why it's hard, but you really do need to think about the long game for the person that you're enabling.

00:24:42.045 --> 00:24:42.644
Yeah, that's funny.

00:24:42.644 --> 00:24:48.414
You said about the splitting the other day, our oldest said something and I said, I really, you need to go talk to dad.

00:24:48.424 --> 00:24:49.174
And he was like, Yeah.

00:24:49.525 --> 00:24:52.414
Well, that was a you conversation, not a him conversation.

00:24:52.434 --> 00:24:57.025
And I just said, wait, we're married and we talk about everything.

00:24:57.025 --> 00:25:04.704
If you think I don't know what you guys are talking about and that he doesn't know what you and I talk about, I was like, you don't understand us as, as parents and as, as a married couple.

00:25:04.765 --> 00:25:10.244
Because we talk and, and we do not hold secrets from each other because that is, that is not what we do.

00:25:10.934 --> 00:25:15.375
And it was just so funny cause he, he was mad, but I was like, nope, that is not what we do.

00:25:16.180 --> 00:25:17.140
We do not do that.

00:25:17.150 --> 00:25:22.769
So what are some then like concrete examples of enabling behavior?

00:25:23.089 --> 00:25:29.470
Okay, so examples can include making excuses for somebody else's actions.

00:25:29.835 --> 00:25:31.944
And it could be out of a good heart, right?

00:25:31.944 --> 00:25:41.904
You really could have a good heart and you see the good in this person, but you're not having them, you're not acknowledging that what they're doing is harmful or that they are actually doing it.

00:25:41.904 --> 00:25:43.255
You just keep making excuses for them.

00:25:43.265 --> 00:25:47.015
And the enabler doesn't necessarily mean like they're a bad person.

00:25:47.154 --> 00:25:50.765
It's just maybe they're used to this, and because you haven't set a boundary,

00:25:50.865 --> 00:25:54.325
well, and it's also taking on the responsibilities that should be theirs.

00:25:54.900 --> 00:26:01.569
If your kid isn't going to wake up and you're constantly knocking on the door to make sure they can make it to work, that's enabling.

00:26:01.940 --> 00:26:02.839
That right there.

00:26:02.869 --> 00:26:06.680
Repeatedly bailing them out of financial or legal trouble.

00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:07.859
We talked about the ticket.

00:26:07.910 --> 00:26:12.690
If you're constantly paying for stuff and they're not, there's no consequences.

00:26:14.009 --> 00:26:17.049
This is something really big too in addiction.

00:26:17.059 --> 00:26:18.019
Yes, I was just thinking that.

00:26:18.130 --> 00:26:32.289
So I specialized in addiction therapy for a long time and this was huge for families that enabled, they were helping, their family member with money and then, the person uses it for drugs.

00:26:32.289 --> 00:26:34.569
They're like, well, I'm not, buying them drugs.

00:26:34.569 --> 00:26:35.944
Well, I'm getting them.

00:26:35.944 --> 00:26:36.779
Well, they need to eat.

00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:39.720
Yeah, but then they're not eating, they're buying it for drugs.

00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:49.140
And it was learning what was healthy and what wasn't in partnering with this person so that they could get sober and break this cycle of addiction.

00:26:49.259 --> 00:26:53.609
And it sucks because a lot of parents are going, but if I don't help him, he may end up dead.

00:26:53.910 --> 00:26:55.380
And that's not what we're saying.

00:26:55.380 --> 00:26:58.559
We're not we, we don't want you to ever have to make that choice.

00:26:59.335 --> 00:27:06.085
But you have to make sure, are you enabling them, and at what point are they responsible for their own behaviors?

00:27:06.265 --> 00:27:11.875
I had to make that decision with somebody in my life, that if I wasn't there for them and supporting them.

00:27:12.779 --> 00:27:16.240
While they were going down a path like that, would they die?

00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:17.519
And they did.

00:27:17.670 --> 00:27:18.769
And that, but that's not your fault.

00:27:18.769 --> 00:27:20.319
But it was not my fault.

00:27:20.589 --> 00:27:30.366
And I knew that I had done everything sans enabling them for their addiction and putting my own family in harm to help them.

00:27:30.817 --> 00:27:32.717
And it would never be enough.

00:27:33.136 --> 00:27:35.396
And I would still pick up the call and talk to them.

00:27:35.426 --> 00:27:37.856
And I would still, tell them I love them.

00:27:37.886 --> 00:27:39.136
But I was like, I can't.

00:27:40.307 --> 00:27:41.957
my own safety do this.

00:27:42.007 --> 00:27:43.317
I am not going to provide.

00:27:43.317 --> 00:27:43.916
And so like

00:27:44.207 --> 00:27:48.297
the thought that I had did end up being the worst case scenario.

00:27:48.527 --> 00:27:51.829
But like I said, it wasn't my burden to

00:27:51.829 --> 00:27:52.470
carry.

00:27:52.529 --> 00:27:56.740
Well, and honestly, Brandy, what if you had provided money and they OD'd?

00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.549
There's no happy ending sometimes for that.

00:27:59.549 --> 00:28:04.682
And you have to be able to say, I am doing what is best for myself and my family.

00:28:04.682 --> 00:28:05.282
My mental health.

00:28:05.282 --> 00:28:05.553
Yeah.

00:28:05.553 --> 00:28:14.220
And my mental health and that person I was like, she as at peace now, and no amount of what I could have done could have changed that.

00:28:14.430 --> 00:28:14.640
No.

00:28:14.690 --> 00:28:19.390
We're enabling him when we're ignoring these problematic behaviors because we love them.

00:28:19.789 --> 00:28:30.799
And every time we ignore these behaviors and dismiss them or make excuses for them, all we're doing is giving them the okay to keep doing it because we're not calling them on their stuff.

00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:33.089
And all we're doing is saying, yeah, that's cool.

00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:36.390
You can keep doing it and I'll still provide or I'll still do whatever that is.

00:28:36.442 --> 00:28:40.430
it sucks as, the parent or the friend to make that decision.

00:28:40.980 --> 00:28:45.559
So Randi, how do I stop enabling and start helping these people effectively?

00:28:45.930 --> 00:28:47.170
Maintain your boundaries.

00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:57.519
Well, first set your boundaries, maintain them, make sure they're clear and make sure you effectively communicate them to the other person and then offer them support.

00:28:57.900 --> 00:29:11.532
That is indicative of their independence, like guiding them to professional help, like maybe helping them get an appointment or giving them the number, to a doctor or a therapist, or, telling them like, I'll drive you to this appointment.

00:29:11.593 --> 00:29:16.782
If some things like that, like they have to make the choice on their own.

00:29:16.977 --> 00:29:22.339
You can help offer guidance, like more like mentorship, if you want to think of it in that way.

00:29:22.410 --> 00:29:22.859
Exactly.

00:29:22.869 --> 00:29:23.410
It's like.

00:29:23.575 --> 00:29:27.785
if it's time for them to move out and you've given them a deadline, okay, cool.

00:29:27.815 --> 00:29:29.154
Let's start looking at apartments.

00:29:29.184 --> 00:29:32.525
I'm happy to go with you if you want a second opinion on this.

00:29:32.964 --> 00:29:36.765
Please let me know which ones and let's get it scheduled by let's get it scheduled.

00:29:36.765 --> 00:29:38.805
I mean, You schedule it, let's get it scheduled.

00:29:38.805 --> 00:29:39.924
This is what I'm available.

00:29:39.944 --> 00:29:41.194
Let's go look at apartments.

00:29:41.224 --> 00:29:42.515
I'm happy to do like I'll

00:29:42.525 --> 00:29:48.075
be a support system to you, but I'm not going to be your You're everything, I'm not going to make the decision.

00:29:48.075 --> 00:29:49.825
Like you are capable of this.

00:29:49.825 --> 00:29:54.914
You need to give them the power to know that they are capable of doing this on their own.

00:29:55.275 --> 00:30:03.815
Maybe they just need someone to walk beside them and, support them in that, but you don't have to sign their lease for them and take on the financial responsibility.

00:30:03.914 --> 00:30:04.315
Yeah.

00:30:04.555 --> 00:30:09.285
So what, if you are recognizing this enabling behavior in yourself, what do you do then?

00:30:09.974 --> 00:30:10.845
First slap yourself.

00:30:11.505 --> 00:30:12.045
No, don't.

00:30:12.464 --> 00:30:13.055
No, don't do that.

00:30:13.055 --> 00:30:13.454
Don't do that.

00:30:13.875 --> 00:30:21.365
But really, I want you first to not be so hard on yourself because we've all been there and we've all been in this point where we're like, damn it, I shouldn't have done that.

00:30:21.664 --> 00:30:26.295
So recognizing that this pattern is a brave and important step.

00:30:26.515 --> 00:30:29.670
You have to recognize it before you can change it.

00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:37.869
Go ahead and get your advice from your friend, your support group, a professional and really look at healthier ways to help.

00:30:37.950 --> 00:30:40.690
And remember that change is a gradual process.

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:42.529
They're not going to change overnight.

00:30:43.079 --> 00:30:44.109
It is baby steps.

00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:48.150
You can give a deadline of four to six months and this is what we need to do.

00:30:48.609 --> 00:30:51.182
But you also have to follow through with it.

00:30:51.182 --> 00:30:53.213
Hey, how's the job search going?

00:30:53.213 --> 00:30:54.906
Hey, how's apartment hunting going?

00:30:54.906 --> 00:30:58.532
Because you want to remind them that this is a very clear boundary.

00:30:59.008 --> 00:31:02.377
And I'm going to support you, but I'm not going to enable you with this.

00:31:02.740 --> 00:31:07.367
Randy, now let's look at, is it okay to help somebody financially without enabling them?

00:31:07.718 --> 00:31:10.877
You can help somebody financially without enabling them.

00:31:11.772 --> 00:31:16.222
Again, you have to have a really strong boundary and a really clear communication about it.

00:31:16.232 --> 00:31:21.583
And sometimes writing stuff up, especially like a contract with that person can help that.

00:31:21.593 --> 00:31:24.782
So somebody can see it in black and white.

00:31:25.032 --> 00:31:31.413
You really want to encourage the person you're helping to be able to manage their finances responsibly.

00:31:32.113 --> 00:31:39.673
And so you really want to make sure it's all about empowering them and not making them dependent on you.

00:31:39.893 --> 00:31:46.732
So maybe, like you give them a loan in a small amount that they need to pay off and that, you have it on automatic payments.

00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:51.400
money is really, really hard for people to deal with and talk about.

00:31:52.230 --> 00:31:56.000
And that's something that we should, I know that's a good topic.

00:31:56.180 --> 00:31:56.440
But an

00:31:56.630 --> 00:32:01.144
example would be my mom signed a loan A car loan on my very first car.

00:32:01.174 --> 00:32:03.375
I didn't have the credit for it at that age.

00:32:03.634 --> 00:32:06.325
And she said, this is your responsibility to pay.

00:32:06.345 --> 00:32:12.474
If you ever can't pay it, you let me know so it doesn't mess up my credit, but you are still responsible for it.

00:32:12.924 --> 00:32:20.944
And that, I would be like, we're eating Top Ramen so I can pay my car payment because I don't want to mess up this opportunity of getting assistance.

00:32:21.335 --> 00:32:21.755
That's not

00:32:21.755 --> 00:32:22.605
enabling me.

00:32:22.625 --> 00:32:24.305
That was helping me grow my credit.

00:32:24.615 --> 00:32:24.944
Mm hmm.

00:32:25.285 --> 00:32:30.234
And that's what, we were looking at doing is co signing on it, but I never missed a payment.

00:32:30.434 --> 00:32:30.674
Yeah.

00:32:30.674 --> 00:32:34.015
And I always paid, I was paid on time, and I was never late.

00:32:34.095 --> 00:32:37.315
And maybe like a consequence, like you don't, you lose the car.

00:32:37.454 --> 00:32:47.950
Then I've got to take it back if you're not paying, there has to be you know, Consequences so that, they know that this is serious and that this is going to affect their life and your life.

00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:48.490
Exactly.

00:32:48.490 --> 00:32:54.109
And I like the, I like the contract idea, honestly, that says this and this and this, and being very clear about it.

00:32:54.190 --> 00:33:00.420
So Jess, let's talk a little bit about how to set boundaries without feeling guilty about it.

00:33:00.890 --> 00:33:01.640
Or selfish.

00:33:01.650 --> 00:33:02.849
That's the other one.

00:33:02.849 --> 00:33:05.390
So when you set boundaries, it is not selfish.

00:33:05.500 --> 00:33:06.130
Selfish.

00:33:06.190 --> 00:33:12.849
It is necessary for your well being and also the other person, especially when we're looking at enabling.

00:33:13.123 --> 00:33:21.393
When you have true compassion for this person, it helps strengthen rather than take away from their ability to stand on their own.

00:33:21.742 --> 00:33:25.583
It is so amazing when you have people who are ready to cheer you on.

00:33:25.903 --> 00:33:33.482
and be so happy for your successes, especially when you know you worked your butt off to get there.

00:33:33.865 --> 00:33:53.153
When you can firmly maintain your limits and you can communicate in a kind, that is something we preach in our house, are you being kind in a kind, but clear way, you can say, no, we're You can say yes, both of those statements, a no and a yes, they are both a form of caring,

00:33:53.192 --> 00:33:53.512
right?

00:33:53.522 --> 00:33:55.712
No, doesn't mean negative.

00:33:55.742 --> 00:33:57.403
It doesn't mean the end.

00:33:57.403 --> 00:33:59.833
It doesn't mean, you're not helping.

00:34:00.202 --> 00:34:02.063
It also means that you're not enabling.

00:34:02.843 --> 00:34:04.863
And so you have to look at that behavior.

00:34:05.232 --> 00:34:09.648
So Randi, Should I feel responsible for the behavior of the person I'm trying to help?

00:34:10.077 --> 00:34:14.617
It's very natural to care deeply about what somebody is going through.

00:34:14.748 --> 00:34:18.188
And, be worried about what is going to happen.

00:34:18.268 --> 00:34:26.297
But, in the end, every person is ultimately responsible for their own actions and their own well being.

00:34:26.498 --> 00:34:30.588
We need to let people have autonomy over their decisions.

00:34:30.764 --> 00:34:41.195
And your role, especially as a parent, is to support and empower them and be a cheerleader for them, not to carry the weight of their behavior on your shoulders.

00:34:41.224 --> 00:34:44.605
You need to take that out of your backpack, out of your handbag, and let it go.

00:34:44.831 --> 00:34:46.130
But that's hard.

00:34:46.260 --> 00:35:04.539
Again, letting go, like we were saying about saying no, letting go and saying no, that should be a new tagline, can be the most caring thing you can do and the most encouraging thing you can do to encourage somebody to take responsibility for their own life and their own actions.

00:35:04.590 --> 00:35:07.570
When you said that, I was imagining like passing the baton.

00:35:07.909 --> 00:35:09.349
We are going to pass this person.

00:35:09.349 --> 00:35:11.650
We just watched the Olympics, so that's making me think of that.

00:35:11.650 --> 00:35:12.829
Yeah, it's here you go.

00:35:13.219 --> 00:35:14.280
We're going to give this to you.

00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:17.719
This is yours to own now, and this is yours to do.

00:35:18.150 --> 00:35:21.730
And if you don't do it, there are consequences that you'll have to figure out.

00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:22.530
Yeah.

00:35:22.590 --> 00:35:27.659
We're here to support you, but we are not going to enable you because we are no longer holding this baton.

00:35:27.670 --> 00:35:28.349
It is yours.

00:35:28.369 --> 00:35:31.690
As parents, that's our job.

00:35:31.936 --> 00:35:35.465
As friends, that is our job to not take on everybody else's stuff.

00:35:35.556 --> 00:35:35.806
Yeah.

00:35:35.806 --> 00:35:46.510
I think you have to think of it to as a team, and when you play on a team, there's not one person that's doing everything, there's a coach, there's a, there's the batter, there's the catcher, and.

00:35:46.769 --> 00:35:50.320
It can't if there's just one good person on the team, it's not going to work.

00:35:50.329 --> 00:35:54.039
Everybody needs to communicate and work together cohesively to win.

00:35:54.059 --> 00:35:57.860
And so you're going to have to have that mentality with, your family and your friends, too.

00:35:57.860 --> 00:36:01.230
If somebody is not pulling their weight, you need to have a discipline.

00:36:01.295 --> 00:36:01.784
Discussion.

00:36:01.784 --> 00:36:05.594
And this, can happen too in like marriages and relationships and partnerships.

00:36:05.655 --> 00:36:08.735
Are you enabling your partner, to act a certain way or are you?

00:36:08.735 --> 00:36:08.954
Well, that goes

00:36:08.974 --> 00:36:10.025
back to our kin keeping.

00:36:10.025 --> 00:36:10.474
Yeah.

00:36:10.554 --> 00:36:13.445
If we're kin keeping, we are enabling bad behavior.

00:36:13.784 --> 00:36:17.965
And so many women now are done and their partners are like, wait, what happened?

00:36:18.474 --> 00:36:19.695
This isn't what I signed up for.

00:36:19.695 --> 00:36:21.445
The kids are like, wait, what, why is mom mad?

00:36:21.445 --> 00:36:22.164
What's going on?

00:36:22.614 --> 00:36:24.545
And you're like, no, no, I'm no longer doing this.

00:36:24.655 --> 00:36:25.764
Figure it out.

00:36:26.315 --> 00:36:28.835
If there's dishes in the sink, somebody else can take care of them.

00:36:29.005 --> 00:36:33.315
Because it's not necessarily one person's job, unless that is their job in the house.

00:36:33.635 --> 00:36:34.565
We all have jobs in the house.

00:36:34.574 --> 00:36:45.530
So every step that you look at and you evaluate whether or not you're enabling or helping, it really is going to help you have successful relationships.

00:36:45.541 --> 00:36:48.001
It's going to have healthier relationships.

00:36:48.481 --> 00:36:55.076
As we learned how to support in ways that can encourage and ways that encourage our other people.

00:36:55.376 --> 00:37:14.985
People in our lives to be self sufficient, we're not only empowering those we love, but we're also empowering ourselves because it is really awesome to see them walk on their own and to see them be successful and to be part of a relationship with somebody, whether, again, it's your, child, your friend, your spouse, where you're both feeling successful.

00:37:15.246 --> 00:37:21.856
So that is what's really important here is really focusing on you are helping not only them, but yourself.

00:37:22.260 --> 00:37:41.141
when you ultimately understand the difference between helping and enabling them, and you can set clear boundaries, and you prioritize your own mental health, your own self care, your well being, you are creating healthier, more balanced relationships, and then you're done.

00:37:41.295 --> 00:37:45.755
Your kids and your friends see this too and they learn from that.

00:37:45.835 --> 00:37:48.054
It can have a rippling effect.

00:37:48.554 --> 00:37:53.434
I was just thinking that and you're teaching them how to have that same relationship with somebody else.

00:37:53.454 --> 00:37:53.755
Yeah.

00:37:53.755 --> 00:37:56.085
And to get out of that eventually

00:37:56.344 --> 00:37:59.394
help them parent their own kids if they choose, to have children

00:37:59.394 --> 00:37:59.735
All right.

00:37:59.735 --> 00:38:06.934
Well until next time I want y'all to think about are your behaviors enabling or are you What are we even doing?

00:38:07.355 --> 00:38:08.014
Or are you helping?

00:38:08.025 --> 00:38:08.704
Let me do that again.

00:38:10.304 --> 00:38:12.684
Until next time, I want you to look at your behaviors.

00:38:13.025 --> 00:38:15.255
Are you enabling or are you helping?

00:38:15.465 --> 00:38:18.514
If you're resentful, you are not setting good boundaries.

00:38:18.565 --> 00:38:20.715
And I, that's the first key to look for

00:38:21.108 --> 00:38:26.257
until next time, take care of yourself and those you love and ways that empower everyone involved.

00:38:26.557 --> 00:38:27.077
Bye.