Kinkeeping Part 1: Navigating the Invisible Labor of Love

[00:00:00] Randi: 1, 2, 3, 4. Hi friends. It's Randi and Jess, and we're going to cut the bullshit

[00:00:07] Jess:  and let's get into women's mental health.

[00:00:13] Randi: Welcome to the podcast, unapologetically all over the place with Randy and Jess, where we talk about women's mental health issues and how it's all normal. Visit us at WomensMentalHealthPodcast.com for more information. 

[00:00:26] Jess: In this episode, we're going to explore a newish word kin-keeping. This will be a three-part series under the self-care series.

[00:00:34] Randi: Not only are we going to define can-keeping for you, but we're going to help you recognize it in your own life and relationships. And I actually wrote an article about it too, with more in-depth definitions, on our website.

[00:00:47] Jess: So basically, we're going to tell you why you're so damn tired and overwhelmed all the time.

And keep listening, cuz we're going to also tell you how to get the changes you need done. Yes. 

[00:00:57] Randi: We constantly feel exhausted all the time. So, what have you guys ever thought? Why am I so tired all the time? Yeah. Why do I have no downtime? 

[00:01:09] Jess: Why can't somebody else do the chores? Shopping, carpooling, nursing, nighttime feedings, blah, blah, blah.

[00:01:15] Randi: Why do I feel like I'm doing all the parenting alone? Okay, so why do I feel so alone? Yeah. Well, that does make you feel alone, right? If I don't do it, who will? 

[00:01:27] Jess: Oh, that's a big one. Or the other one I hear all the time: why do I have 

[00:01:31] Randi: to plan dinner? Oh my gosh. Thinking about dinner is like such a hassle.

It's anxiety-provoking for most people. Yes, it's people. And it's all bullshit. 

[00:01:41] Jess: Bullshit. Big time bullshit. Okay, so what is kin keeping? So 

[00:01:45] Randi: it was originally defined by sociologist Carolyn Rosenthal in 1985. She wrote an article called Kinkeeping in the Familial Division of Labor. And what it is really about is the invisible work women do that we don't get credit for, like physical.

Labor we do for the household. Emotional labor we do on top of everything else, how we do it for free and how we just take on this role as, uh, mothers and women and pass it down from generation to generation. What 

[00:02:23] Jess: What year is it? Yeah. Right. We're still doing this shit from 1985, which is when she wrote this, right?

Yes. So when you look up kin keeping, it typically will pull up things like, you know, if I call my mom, she'll update me on what all of the cousins 

[00:02:38] Randi: are doing. Right. The whole family 

[00:02:39] Jess: system. Right? The whole family system. She's the one that kind of talks about the matriarch or whether there's a patriarch in your family.

Mm. And when one dies, typically the next one comes in. Right. That's what we used to think of it as. Right. But recently, it has been more so within our own families. Right. And again, the division of labor—how much we're doing and how this can be kept—is like we're keeping our households together.

[00:03:03] Randi: Right. And so yeah, like you're keeping on top of everybody's birthdays, everybody's chores, everybody's to-do list, but not just you, like your whole nuclear family. Extended family too. On top of that, you're supposed to know, like, when it's your niece's birthday, when your nephew is graduating bootcamp or whatever it is

[00:03:21] Jess: Or sending your mother-in-law flowers when it's not your mother. 

[00:03:25] Randi: So it's like there's all, there's like this, uh, unlimited, it feels like amount of tasks. That we, as one person, are supposed to stay on top of for not only our own family but also our extended family.

And this is like generational. And so we're talking about this topic too because it recently exploded on TikTok when a young TikToker, thoughtdumpy, I think, was mentioned. Yeah. She had learned about it in her women's. studies class. 

[00:03:52] Jess: She has over; last I checked, she had over 7 million views.

[00:03:57] Randi: TikTok. Right? Because she was explaining it to her mother, right? Like, this is why you're so tired; this is why you're so exhausted. Why do we, as women, take on this role? And kind of like. Unknowingly, we just keep passing it down to our daughters that this is what we're supposed to be doing.

And it's like we're holding on to these stereotypical gender roles of women being caretakers, information holders and exchangers. Right. And she 

[00:04:28] Jess: Did you really? Good job of explaining it, which is why I think it also got so many different views and likes. Right? I don't know if you remember, but she went through and explained it, like, if you're going to see a play, right? So, at the end, you're clapping for, you know, those on stage.

[00:04:44] Randi: The main characters. The main actors. Actors. 

[00:04:48] Jess: But really, Who got them there? Right. Like who? All the stage hands, all the lighting people, right? 

[00:04:54] Randi: All the set designers, the set, there's the costume designers, costumes, the director, the musicians, right?

[00:05:00] Jess: All of this goes into the play. That we don't see. And it's the same thing. You see the end result. within our homes. Like you, you take care of what? Teacher appreciation day!

[00:05:11] Randi: Or dress up for school. Like crazy hair, day!

[00:05:15] Jess: . Geez. You know how long that stuff takes. I mean, like, I saw a girl at Costco yesterday.

Oh my gosh. She was so cute. She must have had crazy hair day because she had all of these crazy hair going on. But I was like, that probably took that mom forever. 

[00:05:30] Randi: Well, and then your partner comes to you, like, why are you so tired? Or, like, why don't you want to have sex? Or, like, why don't you? Oh yeah. And it's like, because I have this endless to-do list in my head that I feel not only emotionally responsible for but also responsible towards our family.

And a lot of this stuff also takes a physical toll on you. So, like, what is the problem with kinkeeping when it comes down? 

[00:05:54] Jess: It's creating burnout for us. Mm-hmm. , right? It's affecting our mental health. It's affecting our physical health. It's affecting, you know, our friendships and our family. So I want to go through burnout.

I know we talked about it on episode 19. Yes. Um, but I want to go through and just talk about signs of burnout so that way we can kind of go away. Just a little recap. Yeah. Yeah. Are you burned out? There's physical, emotional, and behavioral burnout. Right? Mm-hmm, with the physical, it's changes in your appetite.

You're eating more; you're eating less. You're tired, right? You're physically and mentally fatigued. Mm-hmm. all over. Muscle aches. Yeah. Body aches. Mm-hmm. , you could also have issues sleeping where you're not sleeping. Right. 

[00:06:33] Randi: And so it's, or you want to sleep too much. Oh yeah. You're just so overwhelmed.

You're shutting down. 

[00:06:39] Jess: The emotional piece. Right. There's that self-doubt, that imposter syndrome, oh my. We did that, uh, FOMO versus JOMO

[00:06:47] Randi: The joy of missing out versus the fear of missing out. Right. We talked about that. 

[00:06:53] Jess: But there's also something like feeling lonely. Mm-hmm, doubting yourself. Am I doing enough? Am I a good mom? Do you know, sidebar, how many moms worry about being good moms? 

[00:07:05] Randi: Yeah. And I tell my friends the fact that you are worried about being a good mom means you're a good mom, but like we take this on this load, this invisible load. Yes. This emotional load and we're—I feel we as women are just like stacking it, you know? Like, this is what the picture is like, you know, like the women, uh, you know, when they would carry like the big water jugs on their heads? Yes. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, they would walk miles and miles to get water for their family and carry this and strap the baby on their shoulders.

And so it was like, you see, this picture of this physical burden. But I feel like now, like as a society, we have moved towards, like we're stacking those things, like these impossible hats on top of our heads. We're carrying more and more on our shoulders and our bodies, and it's not, you know, and it's emotionally weighing us.

Down, and you know, then it can, like you said, create these physical effects, right?

[00:08:01] Jess:Oh, and then there's the behavioral piece too, right? Mm-hmm. I know a lot of moms, we start to isolate, we get overwhelmed. Yes. And we just stop going out because, Right. The thought of having to actually take our hair out of a bun is right.

[00:08:16] Randi: It's too much. Our plan is one more thing. Or try to, you know, Make calendars work with friends and stuff. We get it. We're both super busy working moms with special needs kids and it can be a lot, but... If you don't have that too, it's hard to refill your cup. And we talk about that too in our caregiving episode, which is episode three about how you can't fill an empty cup, so you need to find ways to refill yourself.

But like with kinkeeping, it seems almost like one more task could just push us over the edge. And let's dive in. and what it looks like a little bit too, like the unpaid work; they often say even stay-at-home moms should be paid like $200K a year. Yeah. Something like some crazy amount for the unpaid work they actually do.

I know that was a struggle too, when I was like a young mom, being like, I'm just a stay-at-home mom. There's no like; you're just like, I, I, I what? A hundred percent now. You would rather work than stay home because you do so much more work. I was a stay-at-home mom for nine years, and it was so much work.

I loved it, but it's like, at this point in my life, I don't think I could do it. It was it. It is very overwhelming, you know? And it's just this idea that we carry in our heads that we need to do a certain amount of labor for our family, and that equals love. And I'm not. Why? 

[00:09:50] Jess: Well, and I think it's this expectation that we need to do this, right?

Like, you know, I have a lot of working moms who, you know, they're like, well, uh, not working moms stay home moms. And they're like, well, you know, I'm a stay-at-home mom, so, you know, I have to do his laundry. 

[00:10:05] Randi: Really? I did that too. I felt like I needed to do his laundry. I needed to do all the cooking. I needed to do all the cleaning.

I was also taking care of my daughter. I ended up taking care of my sister's baby and my sister-in-law's baby while she went to work. And then I was also taking care of my best friend's baby while she went to work because I was just staying home. Right. And then I was taking care of my mother who was dying, and I was in.

Like the sheer thought of this. When I say it out loud, I'm making faces at her, like, what the actual f-ck?

[00:10:35] Jess: You're doing so much stuff right there. You weren't a stay-at-home mom. You were a student, right? You were a caregiver for somebody who was dying. I mean, you had just like 20 different roles right there.

[00:10:49] Randi:And it's like to think that I just thought it was like my duty and I was like, duty. She said duty. Yeah, duty. But, um, . Sorry. Okay. Seven-year-old body humor is coming through. I thought my son was at school, but apparently he's just. You know, across the board, you see her in Jess's body today. Yeah. But, um, that we take on these roles and I thought, I'm not working.

So when I was essentially doing, like you said, the role of like 10 different people, I thought back to, like, like the 18 hundreds when they had like full stabs and like, you know. Yeah. That's what I compare it to. They had a cook, a ma, they had a nanny. They had their whole family living there. A man, like yes, they had bigger houses, you know, maybe if they were wealthier, like living in, you know, but it was like generations like living together.

They had a whole team, literally like a stable of people to help them

[00:11:40] Jess: . Or they were on a farm with, like, 14 different kids, right. And that could help and age could help, and we could do all of that. Right? Right. So at different ends, you know, and I always tell Randy that we need a village. You have to have a village nowadays because we don't have the family support that we used to.

[00:11:58] Randi: Well, we all move so often. Yes. Which is something we should talk about on a different episode too. But, you know, we move often, or we have learned boundaries and set them with toxic family members and stuff. Mm-hmm. , we might not, I know a lot of people still give into families because they don't; they need it.

So they put up with the toxic stuff too. Mm-hmm. to get that, you know, support. It's, yeah. So it's hard because we do, we move, we don't have a family system. We're seen as like, we should be like this independent, you know, do it all. 

[00:12:30] Jess: Ah, it's not worth seeing. I think most women tell themselves that they don't want to ask for help.

[00:12:37] Randi: We are not taught to ask for help. Well, that's the thing. We're not taught to ask for help. Do you 

[00:12:40] Jess: teach your daughter to ask for help or is she as independent as you? 

[00:12:44] Randi: Hmm. She's independent like I am because she's seen me be like, I'm not going to wait for anybody. I'm just going to get it done. If we ask like we do, we have to wait, and then it can get frustrating, you know?

And that's hard, you know? And, you know, I just had surgery this past week, and it was really hard for me to ask for help. And then I also got backlash from my family because they're used to me not asking for help, and they were acting like I was being dramatic. Not being dramatic, but inconveniencing them.

I felt, and I was like, this is what I did. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. 

[00:13:17] Jess: Did did you We're going to go therapy here? Mm-hmm. . Did you feel that they were telling you that or were you taking it in that way? Because it depends. 

[00:13:25] Randi: I was taking it in, as I was inconveniencing them. Okay. Which is part of the problem. Right. But I mean, the attitude I was getting back was kind of saying like I was, but then I was like, okay, everybody's stressed about the situation that I had to have emergency surgery.

Yeah. When I started to break it down,. And I then, when I communicated with my husband too, said, Listen, you're being a dick. I need your help right now. And he was like, I realized he was really stressed out about me being in the hospital. Mm-hmm. like worried, get triggered, you know? You know, other trauma.

And then he was like, I'm super exhausted too. And I was like, Don't tell me you're exhausted right now. But I was like, okay, all right. Now, like talking about being tired,. He was tired. He doesn't do well with things like lack of sleep. When I took in the bigger picture, I was like, okay. And when I was like, You're being a dick, and you need to help me, and that's all I have to say right now.

Then he was like, okay too. You know, but I needed to communicate my needs, and I needed to talk to him about them. And then that helped because, as you're right, I was seeing it through a different lens. I was. I felt like I was inconveniencing everybody with this rushed emergency surgery that I have to have.

[00:14:33] Jess: Okay, so right there, an emergency surgery is an inconvenience no matter what. Right? Right. I mean, that's part of me That wasn't going to change. It's not going to change. Right. I remember she was like, I'm leaving. I'm going to check myself out. Oh wait, I'm sorry. Apparently I'm going in for surgery. And so I was like, okay, cool.

Right. . Okay. Friend . And you may have been a little crankier than normal. Yeah. Right? And that's okay, because you weren't expecting it. Nobody has time for emergency surgery, right? I mean, it wasn't planned. And, and that's okay. You have to roll with it, right? Mm-hmm. . But part of what keeps us going is that women do not ask for help.

And when we do, we wait typically until we are so fed. That it comes out as an explosion. Yeah. Yes. Because 

[00:15:14] Randi: we're like, we're like a volcano. Why can't you do anything bad? And then it's molten hot lob over everything. And this kind of ties in back into kinship and emotional labor. Yes. That we do.

Yes, we are just feel like we're tasked with managing. So, like, that was the thing too. I felt like I was inconveniencing everybody and this was an emotional strain on everybody. I'm in the middle of having to have emergency surgery and I'm trying to make sure everybody else feels okay about it. And I was like, that is not your role.

[00:15:41] Jess: Wtf. That when you took that on you, you took it on. Right, right. And, so, you know, it was interesting you had talked about how, you know, the women in your lives—the busiest ones in your lives—stepped up and you had dinner being brought to you, you and your. You know, by like, you know, somebody's mother-in-law, 

[00:16:00] Randi: right?

Yeah. It just makes me want to cry right now because we do too much as women. She actually is crying. I am crying right now just because the women that did step up to help me this week, I was telling Jess that all my friends that came through this week were the busiest. They're the ones that have. They run businesses, they take care of other people, and they all get it paused and come and bring me dinner and it always happens. I don't know why.

It surprises me that it's always the people that have the least amount of time that make time for you. , but that's how you know those people are really like your village and your friends and stuff like that. And we're going 

[00:16:38] Jess: do a podcast on why you need a village, because this comes up all the time: we need a village.

Yeah. For this exact reason, Randy, right? We need to have people around us who will take your kid if you go into emergency. 

[00:16:52] Randi: Yeah, because Jess was like, if you need to, you know, drop off, you know, my son to her like I could. And so I knew that, that I had that in my back pocket, like if need be and that, you know, my friends came and like dropped up dinner and stuff to me and my family to make sure, like my family was fed this week and like Jess brought me flowers and, you know, things that would cheer me up, and chocolates, yes.

And chocolate. That has gotten me through this week because I was also PMSing on top of having my gallbladder removed. . So I was like, Thank you Jesus, for all this today. But anyway, so how do we recognize kinship, and how do we recognize this in ourselves and like our children, and how do we identify it?

So let's get into that. Okay. So 

[00:17:38] Jess: when I talk with women about identifying it, the first thing is, you know, I want to talk about, like, where do you have resentment. Because anytime we have resentment or, oh, I wish I wouldn't have done that. Right? Oh God, I wish I wouldn't have scheduled that. Why? Why am I the one doing this?

Right? Anytime you have those thoughts, that resentment is either: you didn't set a boundary, you are doing too much, you picked up something you shouldn't have because you're a fixer. Yes. Right? And you're like, or a people-pleaser. Or a people-pleaser. And so anytime you have that kind of resentment, I want you to kind of identify it, right?

Mm-hmm. and re. Was this yours to pick up? Did you pick it up? Because I'll tell you, if we're all sitting around a conference table, I know there's one of y'all who will easily pick up the shitty task. And I can sit there and not say anything and doodle; somebody will really be uncomfortable and pick it up.

[00:18:29] Randi: You're like the one; this is me. The one who did all the group work in class. Oh, totally. The person who does. You didn't want to get it, you didn't want to fail, so you just did it all for everybody. Yeah. But it would also be a good thing to journal this out. Yes! To identify it and to work through it too.

Like, where do you have regrets? Is your household labor divided equally? In this day and age, we still do not. I feel as a society we share equally in household maintenance, chores, whatever you want to call it, doing groceries, and things like that. And that can really start to weigh on people. You know, taking on a company and growing my company and stuff.

Over the last three years, I have taken on. There are many more, like additional responsibilities. My partner had to step the f-ck up cuz I was like, it's not going to happen; you're not going to get fed. I just finally said, you're not going to get fed. This isn't going to get done. You need to learn how to, you know, get groceries.

You need to help me with the pickups and drop-offs. Or, if you're fortunate enough to be able to find some paid help,. But a lot of people are not able to afford that. So it's like you do have-to either find a village, people you can carpool with, things like that, you know? Figure it out with your partner that it needs to be equal.

[00:19:47] Jess: And next week, we're going to expand on that because there are some ways that you can do it. Randi tends to wait until she is overwhelmed and then it comes out as you need to f-cking do this. Yes. 

[00:19:58] Randi: That's not the correct way. Okay. No, no, no. That's 

[00:20:00] Jess: not an incorrect way. But what it is is that you're missing all of the signs beforehand.

Right. You needed the help and now you're frustrated and blowing up. Yeah. And so, 

[00:20:09] Randi: and so, we created a calendar system for us. Mm-hmm. , you know, too, that's like, okay, you're picking up this time, you're doing this, you're doing this chores, and you're responsible for this. But yeah, so we had to write it out in black and white.

That's what worked for us.

[00:20:21] Jess: And so next week, next week we're going to go through that more. So. Okay. I want to really delve into how to do that. Yeah. Because I really coach a lot of women on doing this because Partners don't do that. And I do have some men, but I mostly work with women. Mm-hmm. . So I am not being sexist, but that's just where I typically work.

[00:20:38] Randi: I mean, when it breaks down to it, though, this is a very stereotypical Yes. Almost sexist. Yes. Role-keeping is. And so we did come up with some tips that you can give your partner, whether you're of the same sex, you know? Mm-hmm. , or, you know, different sex. You know, relationship. But 

[00:20:57] Jess: before we go there, real quick. I want to go back to, and I also want you to recognize it in your body. Mm. Because we are physically, yeah. Yes. We, as women, um, as humans, hold all of this in our bodies, and it's really interesting to see, kind of, where your pain is coming up. Right. And you can go into chakras and we can be hippie dippy, and we can 

[00:21:20] Randi: do all of that kind of stuff.

I'm just like, my neck, my back, you know, . Oh, that too, 

[00:21:24] Jess: right? Yeah. Figure out and see what hurts. Mm-hmm. . And then, you know, kind of pay attention to that because I want to discuss that as well. Because, you know, there's like a certain side of your shoulder that hurts. That means that if one side of your shoulder hurts, it means that.

So pay attention to where you physically hurt. Okay? Because that right there is going to lead to. Some of the other stuff. 

[00:21:47] Randi: Identifying some of the other emotional triggers that you're having. Yes, 

[00:21:51] Jess: because our bodies hold it. 

[00:21:53] Randi: Yeah. So, okay. There's a book about that called The Body Keeps the Score.

Oh, it's such a good book. It's a good book, but it's very heavy and kind of convoluted. So we can; we should do an episode on that too, so we can kind of give you like the cliff notes version. But we carry our trauma and our emotions in our body and we just don't realize it a lot and it leads, you know, to other things, but that's a whole other spinoff, so 

[00:22:19] Jess: well.

and we don't do enough self-care versus self-soothing, right? Mm-hmm. , so self-care, episode nine is a great one to listen 

[00:22:25] Randi: to. Yeah. And we put some self-care checklist too on our website, mm-hmm. , that you guys can check out. So you can be like, am I doing this? Does this work for me? You know, am I filling again?

Am I filling up my cup? Am I taking care of myself? Because with kin keeping, you are taking care of all these extensions of yourself. Like I'm thinking of a giant oak tree, right? And there's like all these extensions. It just keeps growing and growing and growing, but it's like, what about your root system?

Like what about your core? Mm-hmm. What about, mm-hmm. You're right. 

[00:22:56] Jess: You get a drought and then your roots. Roots come to the top, a wind comes and what's going to happen? You knock over, right. 

[00:23:01] Randi: You fall, or what if you keep getting brittle, and then like a flame comes and then it's like turns into giant inferno.

Mm-hmm. . You know, and then you know there's nothing left and then you've really done nobody else any good. If you're not taking care of yourself at the core, you 

[00:23:17] Jess: are burned out and fallen down. Mm-hmm. . Okay. So tips for spouses. Uh, this came from one of our listeners, who is a male. Thank you very much for listening to us.

Yes. Yay. I knew and wanted tips. On how he could help his spouse. So we've added in some tips for spouses. Yes. Okay. So 

[00:23:33] Rsomendi: Go for it, Randy. So a great way to kind of bring this up with your spouse is to ask if they like the role and what they're doing in the family. Like, this could open up; maybe you hate doing drop-offs, or maybe you love doing grocery shopping, and you guys are the opposite and want to switch, you know?

Yeah. 

[00:23:52] Jess: For years, my husband thought I liked cooking, and I sucked at cooking. I thought it was my role. You're doing your duty again now. Yeah, yeah. That was my duty, and really, I'm not good at it. I mean, there's been so many nights we've thrown it away. 

[00:24:06] Randi: When I'm thinking of duty, now I'm thinking of poop.

Yeah. And I'm thinking that is, but, like, let's just put duty to poop. Like it is a shitty, it's shitty. So, okay. We don't have a duty to do this. But 

[00:24:15] Jess: yeah. No, but then, when we switched and he started cooking, He was a good cook, because, guess what? He's not ADHD, can follow the recipes, and doesn't forget to walk away.

And he's not burning the water. He's not burning the water and melting the pan. So, yeah. But like he was like, oh, I thought it was always you who wanted to do it. Yeah. So he made the 

[00:24:33] Randi: assumption and now, but then he's also found like a really love for cooking. Right, too. Oh my gosh. He's, and. Yeah, same thing when I told my husband, like I was burnt out cooking.

I was like, I've cooked you dinner for the last 10 years. Now we've been together for, like, 18 years. But I was like, you're up, dude. So for the last eight years, he's learned to cook and found that he loves, you know, kind of cooking and making stuff. Mm-hmm. , um, but also like Ask your spouse,. Are they doing enough?

Like do they really feel, are they contributing enough to the, well, you should ask your 

[00:25:03] Jess: spouse, am I doing enough? Right? If you're going to be talking to your spouse, am I doing enough? 

[00:25:09] Randi: Yes. And vice versa, how are you doing, Do you feel like you're doing enough? 

[00:25:12] Jess: And don't wait until I do enough. The kids go to bed at eight o'clock at night and then you're burned out and do it because she doesn't want to have this conversation at 10 o'clock before bed.

[00:25:21] Randi: No. Like make it something fun. Like go out for a date night or do something relaxing. And then, when you need to talk about like heavier stuff, parrot with. It's enjoyable, too. So it doesn't feel like it's; I'm 

[00:25:31] Jess: laughing. Not necessarily alcohol either, cuz that doesn't always end 

[00:25:35] Randi: up, you don't want to loose lips; sync ships.

You don't want to be like, hey and let it all fly out. Sometimes, depending on your partner, you know, like 

[00:25:43] Jess: Well, identify areas that you might want to participate more in to have an equal household. Right. 

[00:25:50] Randi: And well, this is the. You're not 

[00:25:53] Jess: helping. That is so, my soapbox girl. Okay. You are not helping.

You're not 

[00:25:57] Randi: just helping her. You're not babysitting your kids. Nope. You are an active participant in this family and this relationship. This is also, these are not duties. This is a relationship. Yes. This is communication. This is not added help. It's not a bonus. This is part of a relationship, a marriage communication.

And it's a partnership. A partnership. 

[00:26:19] Jess: This is a being healthy partner. Yeah, so I des, you know, and in families, right, when we have kids, it isn't like a team sport and we're all lining up for football. This is a team sport, like a relay race sometimes, right? There is a baton and we're passing it off.

Mm-hmm. . And you need to be able to run and keep up your part to catch up with your partner. Yeah, pass her the baton so she can do her part and vice versa. Right. 

[00:26:41] Randi: And this makes me think too, of all the memes that happen around the holidays and stuff about, like, how dad just wake up on Christmas and they have no idea what they got, their kids and it's just like, ha ha ha.

And it's like, no, that's not ha ha ha. Let them actively participate. I feel a lot of times too; as a woman, I'm going to call myself out too. I'm there. I have banned my partner because I think I can do it better. And not, 

[00:27:04] Jess: or cuz I don't want him to tell me to 

[00:27:05] Randi: You should not spend money, right? And I have not allowed him to participate fully.

I've tried to micromanage or control the situation and I have had to learn how to step back and let him do things his own way. Let him fall on his face. Let him, whatever, with the kids; even if they're crying, even if they're screaming, or even if they're extremely happy and I think he's spoiling them, I have to step back, just like he's had to learn to step back to let me find my place.

He needs to find his place, and I have blocked him in some way, so I've had to learn how. I've had to unlearn. Yes. Okay. Yes. How to not block him from doing his own thing and participating in our relationship. I feel like a lot of times, as women, we have also learned to, like, be the controllers of situations like this, the kind keepers, everything.

It sounds like. So, like, I'm overloaded. I am overloaded. I'm the overlord of, like, our household. And it's like, no, 

[00:27:57] Jess: but, and here's the. If they were doing that to us, we would call that gatekeeping, and we would call that abuse. Right. And so we have to look at it a little bit differently.

Mm-hmm. , um, and maybe look at what are we preventing them from doing because we are gatekeeping in some way. Right. You know, by saying you can't do this with the kids,. Well, if they told me that, I'd be like, watch me, watch me, and I'm going to do it even bigger now. Yeah. Right. And. We have to kind of look at how we are engaging with our spouses.

Mm-hmm. , but I want to go back one more tip for the spouse. Mm-hmm. , right? Yeah. I want you to actually bring this up with your partner. Yeah. That is number one: talk to them, bring it up and be like, Hey, I heard this podcast and what do you think? Right? And ha ha ha, but. Bring it up. 

[00:28:44] Randi: Yeah. Break the ice with it.

Yeah. And next week we're going to continue talking about can-keeping, dive into it a little bit better, and explain why it is important to set your boundaries. All right. I'll catch you next 

[00:28:55] Jess: week. 

[00:28:55] Randi: I will talk to you later. Bye. Thanks for listening and normalizing mental health with us. 

[00:29:02] Jess: Don't forget to check out our free resources and favorites on our website, unapologetically randy and jess.com 

[00:29:08] Randi: like and share this episode and tune in next week.