Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.319
Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast.
00:00:02.350 --> 00:00:03.080
I'm randy.
00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:03.805
I'm And I'm Jess.
00:00:03.834 --> 00:00:12.544
And we are two licensed psychotherapists, and this is a safe space where we talk about mental health, well being, and strategies for coping with life's challenges.
00:00:12.605 --> 00:00:15.595
And how all of this is normal, and you are not alone.
00:00:15.884 --> 00:00:17.820
Today we're talking about a topic that affects us all.
00:00:17.829 --> 00:00:22.250
So many women, especially in today's fast paced world, occupational burnout.
00:00:22.329 --> 00:00:26.730
That is such a good topic, especially right around now in so many different fields.
00:00:26.989 --> 00:00:27.280
Yeah.
00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:43.549
And especially with the holidays coming up soon, I feel like a lot of us are going to be hitting a wall because all those pressures of being like the kinkeeper and taking care of everything and being the elf and being Santa Claus and all the things.
00:00:43.835 --> 00:00:50.854
And right now, too, with all the false sports and everything, I feel like everybody's just hitting a wall that I've talked to in my life.
00:00:50.935 --> 00:00:56.234
And not only can this happen in your occupation, but just everywhere, just regular burnout,
00:00:56.405 --> 00:00:57.774
we're being pulled in so many areas.
00:00:57.774 --> 00:01:01.725
So find us and more resources on women's mental health podcast.
00:01:01.734 --> 00:01:02.115
com.
00:01:02.115 --> 00:01:04.594
And so Randy, let's go ahead and do our, have you ever thoughts.
00:01:04.972 --> 00:01:08.903
Have you ever thought, what exactly is occupational burnout?
00:01:09.260 --> 00:01:11.659
What are the main symptoms of occupational burnout?
00:01:12.093 --> 00:01:15.453
Can burnout affect a personal relationship?
00:01:15.873 --> 00:01:18.822
Who is at risk the most for having this kind of burnout?
00:01:19.076 --> 00:01:21.677
How can I prevent occupational burnout?
00:01:22.087 --> 00:01:25.137
What should I do if I think I'm experiencing burnout?
00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:30.799
Is occupational burnout a medical or psychological diagnosis?
00:01:31.459 --> 00:01:33.420
What is the difference between stress and burnout?
00:01:33.420 --> 00:01:34.430
That's a good question.
00:01:34.810 --> 00:01:37.000
Can just taking a vacation cure burnout?
00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:39.329
If only.
00:01:39.390 --> 00:01:40.189
If only.
00:01:40.299 --> 00:01:44.560
Remember guys, remember it is a vacation if your kids are not with you.
00:01:44.739 --> 00:01:44.959
Yeah.
00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:46.469
Otherwise it is a family trip.
00:01:46.469 --> 00:01:46.620
And it
00:01:46.620 --> 00:01:47.859
can cause more burnout.
00:01:47.870 --> 00:01:48.060
Yeah,
00:01:48.060 --> 00:01:49.319
it's a family trip.
00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:49.650
Okay.
00:01:49.750 --> 00:01:56.019
What are the long term effects of occupational burnout if I don't address them or if I continue to work where I'm being burnt out?
00:01:57.230 --> 00:02:06.269
Burnout is a huge issue for women that juggle work, not just work, but if you're a stay at home mom, like I categorize that as work.
00:02:06.579 --> 00:02:06.640
That's a
00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:06.879
lot
00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:07.290
of work.
00:02:07.299 --> 00:02:07.379
Yeah.
00:02:07.620 --> 00:02:09.219
I would rather go to work than be a stay at home mom.
00:02:09.430 --> 00:02:09.740
I'm sorry.
00:02:09.810 --> 00:02:10.879
More power to y'all.
00:02:10.955 --> 00:02:17.465
I stayed home for nine years and then when I had my second, I was working and I was like, no way am I going back to that.
00:02:17.935 --> 00:02:24.901
Managing your home and everything in between, it just can create a lot of stress that leads to burnout.
00:02:24.901 --> 00:02:27.211
So let's jump into that a little bit more, Jess.
00:02:27.478 --> 00:02:33.407
Occupational burnout is a state of emotional and physical and mental exhaustion.
00:02:33.717 --> 00:02:37.217
It's caused by prolonged and excessive stress at work.
00:02:37.457 --> 00:02:50.078
We can see feelings of being overwhelmed, being drained, unable to meet the constant demands and the pressures of your job whether it could be any job.
00:02:50.258 --> 00:02:52.298
We saw this after COVID.
00:02:52.728 --> 00:03:03.397
All of the doctors, all of the therapists, so many people like right now, it's really hard to find a therapist and that's because a lot of therapists have decided to no longer be therapists
00:03:03.407 --> 00:03:04.427
because we got burn out
00:03:04.448 --> 00:03:12.377
because we got burn out or they're seeing less patients because we got burn out and so a lot of these people I have a lot of doctors that are no longer practicing.
00:03:12.682 --> 00:03:14.543
I know a lot of people who are like, yeah, I'm good.
00:03:14.543 --> 00:03:16.282
I, I'm, I need to do something different.
00:03:16.643 --> 00:03:22.312
And so what it is, is it involves a sense of reduced accomplishment and loss of personal identity.
00:03:22.312 --> 00:03:22.973
You're just like,
00:03:23.032 --> 00:03:32.212
because you've been so overwhelmed and almost suppressed because of all the demands and the load on you that you just, you have nothing left to give.
00:03:32.598 --> 00:03:34.828
Don't even know what you like anymore.
00:03:34.837 --> 00:03:37.858
Like maybe you don't like anything anymore because it's really affected you.
00:03:38.407 --> 00:03:52.245
So the World Health Organization, or as we sometimes call Yahoo, has officially recognized burnout as a syndrome resulting from chronic workplace stress that hasn't been managed.
00:03:52.314 --> 00:03:56.794
If you're stressed and you're just not dealing with it, and it just cycles into this.
00:03:56.872 --> 00:03:57.442
burnout.
00:03:57.657 --> 00:04:01.837
it's really important to note that burnout isn't just feeling tired.
00:04:01.867 --> 00:04:03.518
It's not just being tired.
00:04:03.828 --> 00:04:07.337
After a long day, we can all feel that physical, tiredness.
00:04:07.497 --> 00:04:09.258
Even after a long project, right?
00:04:09.337 --> 00:04:21.927
This is a persistent, constant state of exhaustion, mentally and physically, and feeling detached from your job, your life, your family, and all those things.
00:04:21.927 --> 00:04:27.437
So Impacting your whole life and the way that you deal with things.
00:04:27.658 --> 00:04:33.327
And most of the time with burnout like this, what we see is that people go to poor coping skills.
00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:37.470
Because they don't have time for good coping skills and healthy coping skills.
00:04:37.589 --> 00:04:37.660
So
00:04:37.660 --> 00:04:42.870
they'll drink after work or they'll go out with friends, to happy hour or they'll grab
00:04:42.870 --> 00:04:53.980
fast food on the way home because they haven't been able to, or they'll just going to do nothing but drink coffee because they're so exhausted that they're not doing the healthy things that they need to be doing.
00:04:54.180 --> 00:04:55.860
burnout can affect anybody.
00:04:55.889 --> 00:04:57.089
So it's not just men.
00:04:57.160 --> 00:04:58.370
It's not just women.
00:04:58.519 --> 00:05:09.040
But it is really common among women though, because we face those, like what you're talking about earlier, the additional pressures of balancing professional and personal responsibilities.
00:05:09.089 --> 00:05:12.089
And let's be honest, we as women have a hard time saying no.
00:05:12.495 --> 00:05:12.875
Mm hmm.
00:05:12.884 --> 00:05:13.334
And
00:05:13.345 --> 00:05:14.964
instilling boundaries.
00:05:15.045 --> 00:05:16.404
And no is a complete sentence.
00:05:16.444 --> 00:05:16.685
Yep.
00:05:16.685 --> 00:05:17.194
Just so you know.
00:05:17.235 --> 00:05:17.745
No.
00:05:17.795 --> 00:05:18.555
You can just say no.
00:05:18.564 --> 00:05:19.524
Practice it today.
00:05:19.535 --> 00:05:19.845
No.
00:05:19.884 --> 00:05:20.665
Tell somebody no.
00:05:21.045 --> 00:05:22.055
Act like you're a three year old.
00:05:22.144 --> 00:05:22.634
No.
00:05:22.694 --> 00:05:22.954
Yeah.
00:05:23.014 --> 00:05:23.314
Nope.
00:05:23.704 --> 00:05:23.935
Nope.
00:05:24.045 --> 00:05:24.605
I don't want to do that.
00:05:25.185 --> 00:05:35.165
And the concept of burnout was really first introduced in the 1970s by a psychologist named Herbert Fruedenberg?
00:05:35.644 --> 00:05:35.985
Berger?
00:05:36.214 --> 00:05:36.985
Fruedenberger?
00:05:37.305 --> 00:05:37.485
Fruedenberger.
00:05:38.189 --> 00:05:38.910
Fruity Burger.
00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:39.680
Fruity Burger.
00:05:39.810 --> 00:05:41.019
Oh, I'm sure that's gonna be a great one.
00:05:41.100 --> 00:05:56.839
So he noticed that severe stress and high levels of exhaustion among workers in especially helping professions like nurses, doctors, psychologists, therapists, especially in, the health field.
00:05:57.110 --> 00:05:57.709
Teachers.
00:05:57.709 --> 00:06:04.728
Yeah, impacting their work and their life.
00:06:05.098 --> 00:06:23.122
And over time, this term, burnout, has expanded to include all professions because in today's modern age, the demand to work in the United States, let's Like, be specific with that has really intensified.
00:06:23.132 --> 00:06:25.442
Like we do not support our workers.
00:06:25.483 --> 00:06:29.682
We do not have good laws around what is healthy.
00:06:29.682 --> 00:06:32.983
Like we don't like, what is the common here?
00:06:32.983 --> 00:06:35.733
One week vacation, like two week, maybe we
00:06:35.733 --> 00:06:37.362
don't even have postpartum
00:06:37.473 --> 00:06:37.833
baby
00:06:37.833 --> 00:06:38.132
leave.
00:06:38.182 --> 00:06:41.632
There's very minimum support for that, depending on the state.
00:06:41.642 --> 00:06:45.442
Some states have better leave than others, but most states still do not.
00:06:45.723 --> 00:06:47.523
There's not a lot of sick time There's
00:06:47.752 --> 00:06:52.987
grieving, you get one grief a year, and if you happen to have two people that die, You're screwed.
00:06:52.997 --> 00:06:53.517
Good luck.
00:06:53.528 --> 00:06:55.807
Because you can only take your time for the first one.
00:06:55.807 --> 00:06:58.007
You're like, okay, but will this happen too?
00:06:58.007 --> 00:07:01.978
A lot of states and a lot of companies don't have that because it's so costly.
00:07:01.987 --> 00:07:11.237
We have like this hustle culture that I feel has been like, you're just supposed to work, work, work, work, work, and never take any time for yourself or your family or any downtime.
00:07:11.598 --> 00:07:17.648
And it's frowned upon even though they've done a lot of research showing that when people work in a positive.
00:07:17.822 --> 00:07:21.552
environment, they output more and they do better work.
00:07:21.952 --> 00:07:22.413
so
00:07:23.213 --> 00:07:27.762
it's like some of those big tech companies that have even here they have one of the big companies Sensi.
00:07:28.103 --> 00:07:30.742
They have a, you can get a meal a day.
00:07:31.293 --> 00:07:31.742
Yeah.
00:07:31.793 --> 00:07:35.353
They have a great, from what I've heard, they have a great cafeteria.
00:07:35.353 --> 00:07:35.942
Is that what it's called?
00:07:35.963 --> 00:07:36.283
Yeah.
00:07:36.283 --> 00:07:37.213
I've eaten there before.
00:07:37.302 --> 00:07:43.153
So like Google, like they have their own work bus that, takes people so they don't have to drive like they have oh, and it has
00:07:43.392 --> 00:07:46.033
internet so y'all can work on it as you're driving if you
00:07:46.262 --> 00:07:46.642
want.
00:07:46.692 --> 00:07:52.543
Nap pods and self care workshops, it's really a whole culture and environment.
00:07:52.963 --> 00:07:58.502
It's just not like that in, most industries or hourly paying jobs Retail
00:07:58.502 --> 00:07:59.392
around the holidays.
00:07:59.392 --> 00:08:00.103
Yeah.
00:08:00.103 --> 00:08:01.233
And yeah, exactly.
00:08:01.233 --> 00:08:11.872
So what we see with burnout is that this is really being linked to high workloads, a lack of control or autonomy over your poor work life balance.
00:08:11.952 --> 00:08:16.403
Sometimes it's like we were saying, even some cultures of work don't prioritize it.
00:08:16.622 --> 00:08:20.663
I'm hearing a lot of the companies are now saying you have to come back into the office.
00:08:20.702 --> 00:08:25.612
You have to come back into the office and their employees are saying, no, I don't want to go back into the office.
00:08:25.853 --> 00:08:26.343
They don't want
00:08:26.343 --> 00:08:30.963
to have that effect of how their work life and their load was so poor.
00:08:31.372 --> 00:08:35.123
And it's hard though, because a lot of these states we live in one too.
00:08:35.488 --> 00:08:37.087
It's a right to work state.
00:08:37.128 --> 00:08:39.957
So what that means is that you don't have a lot of rights.
00:08:39.988 --> 00:08:42.018
They can fire you for any reason.
00:08:42.238 --> 00:08:46.107
Well, other states was, an at will, meaning that you can still do it.
00:08:46.177 --> 00:08:48.868
But this one here, there's no lawsuit.
00:08:49.018 --> 00:08:56.057
And with the rise of technology, it's really made it blurry, between personal and work life, because now we can't disconnect and recharge.
00:08:56.337 --> 00:08:57.687
We are expected.
00:08:57.697 --> 00:08:58.758
I have people We're always
00:08:58.758 --> 00:08:59.697
online, right?
00:08:59.707 --> 00:08:59.727
Yeah.
00:08:59.738 --> 00:09:01.727
So people think that they always have access to you.
00:09:01.727 --> 00:09:02.498
Well, you have
00:09:02.498 --> 00:09:05.577
a phone, and most of us don't carry around two phones.
00:09:05.577 --> 00:09:09.187
I used to carry around two phones because when I was off, I didn't answer it.
00:09:09.187 --> 00:09:10.748
Now I got an app that I still don't answer.
00:09:10.957 --> 00:09:17.498
I didn't want to have to carry my phone and I didn't want it to be the same thing because I never knew it was like trauma every time it rang.
00:09:17.508 --> 00:09:18.288
Is it a client?
00:09:18.288 --> 00:09:18.937
Is it my mom?
00:09:18.947 --> 00:09:19.697
Is it a client?
00:09:19.697 --> 00:09:20.357
Is it my friend?
00:09:20.707 --> 00:09:24.227
Yeah, so it's one of those things that most people just use one phone,
00:09:24.278 --> 00:09:24.607
right?
00:09:24.638 --> 00:09:43.753
When I work in addiction if I ever got a phone call after hours, it was for somebody that overdosed so it was really hard to like You know when I went into private practice, I really had strong boundaries about I don't answer my phone after hours because it had been so emotionally draining for me.
00:09:43.836 --> 00:09:55.826
Of course, I made sure my clients, had resources if they needed to get help, but I was like, I can't keep putting myself in that situation where I'm just so triggered, like worrying that somebody is dying on the other end of the phone.
00:09:56.091 --> 00:10:00.542
And let's be honest, I don't answer my phone at all because nobody out there answers their phone.
00:10:00.572 --> 00:10:01.302
No, you can send a
00:10:01.302 --> 00:10:02.341
text message instead.
00:10:02.711 --> 00:10:05.302
All, yeah, all I do is we just go back and forth.
00:10:05.302 --> 00:10:06.991
And most of the time we're doing other stuff anyway.
00:10:06.991 --> 00:10:08.902
So most people want text messages.
00:10:08.912 --> 00:10:09.251
Yeah.
00:10:09.292 --> 00:10:23.096
And on top of it, like we were mentioned before with kin keeping, the added burden for women of being being the unpaid laborer, the help, the chauffeur, the maid, the caregiver, the dentist driver, yeah, the dentist
00:10:23.317 --> 00:10:24.886
maker, oh yeah, the appointment
00:10:24.886 --> 00:10:26.167
maker, the
00:10:26.167 --> 00:10:26.876
dentist maker.
00:10:27.267 --> 00:10:29.557
I know, I was like, I don't know if your kid becomes a dentist maybe.
00:10:29.726 --> 00:10:37.297
This all contributes to even more burnout, making it not just a professional issue, but a personal one.
00:10:37.297 --> 00:10:40.602
It's affecting your overall, life as a whole.
00:10:40.817 --> 00:10:46.028
And part of that with technology as well is that we did get used to being home a lot.
00:10:46.248 --> 00:10:53.538
We did learn that we can do our laundry, and then everybody around us says, but you got it done before, what's going on now?
00:10:53.628 --> 00:10:56.707
And so it's hard because we're like, we have to do all of this stuff.
00:10:56.868 --> 00:10:59.878
And so when you're trying to work, are you really working?
00:10:59.878 --> 00:11:00.972
Are you worrying about this?
00:11:01.452 --> 00:11:10.212
And so it's hard to prioritize or compartmentalize when you are working, because that is so blurred between the two, whether you're in an office or at home.
00:11:10.293 --> 00:11:11.403
Yeah, exactly.
00:11:11.732 --> 00:11:18.143
And this is why occupational burnout is so heavily impacting women's mental health.
00:11:18.163 --> 00:11:28.293
Because all of this combined leads to additional anxiety, depression, feeling, hopelessness, feeling like you're drowning.
00:11:28.506 --> 00:11:50.346
Then you lead into feeling disconnected from your work, from your kids, from your family, and that leads into then feeling unmotivated or cynical about your life, your job, your relationships, your colleagues, like everything just gets like this, hazy tint to it because You're just like meh over everything.
00:11:50.613 --> 00:11:54.913
that toll that we're talking about, it does spill over into your personal life.
00:11:54.942 --> 00:12:03.273
It affects so much of your relationships, your self esteem, the overall quality of your life, and physically, the burnout.
00:12:03.283 --> 00:12:07.273
It can manifest as, what, headaches you can have sleep problems.
00:12:07.393 --> 00:12:07.513
Yeah,
00:12:07.513 --> 00:12:08.332
insomnia.
00:12:08.383 --> 00:12:08.653
Oh,
00:12:08.783 --> 00:12:12.013
the ones where you wake up at three in the morning and you're like, I gotta go check my email.
00:12:12.043 --> 00:12:14.722
Or, there's other, like a weakened immune system.
00:12:14.753 --> 00:12:17.832
So many people get so sick when they're burnt out.
00:12:18.077 --> 00:12:21.227
And as women, we don't take care of ourselves physically either.
00:12:21.258 --> 00:12:22.437
We also push it down.
00:12:22.447 --> 00:12:24.217
There's so many other things to do.
00:12:24.548 --> 00:12:26.807
So then you're not doing any type of self care.
00:12:26.807 --> 00:12:30.567
You're not, taking yourself to the doctor and then you can get worse and worse and worse.
00:12:30.607 --> 00:12:32.677
And a lot of times we have good intentions.
00:12:32.998 --> 00:12:35.288
I'm going to set aside this time so I can do this.
00:12:35.307 --> 00:12:39.398
But then what ends up happening is, little Joey now has to go to urgent care, right?
00:12:39.408 --> 00:12:40.727
And something else pops up.
00:12:40.778 --> 00:12:43.648
There's a project over for, the other kids thing.
00:12:43.648 --> 00:12:44.248
And so we end up.
00:12:44.432 --> 00:12:50.832
saying okay and putting ourselves last because we have to, I'm doing air quotes, have to take care of whatever is going on.
00:12:50.852 --> 00:12:52.332
So it's hard.
00:12:52.763 --> 00:13:06.602
And that also leads to compassion fatigue, especially when you are in a caregiver role or a caregiving profession and you are already giving a lot emotionally like a therapist or a nurse or something like that.
00:13:06.878 --> 00:13:11.898
You can feel numb or indifferent to what's happening to the person around you.
00:13:11.898 --> 00:13:18.158
Yeah, you're just like, oh, whatever and that can be distressing because as women, we're naturally caregivers.
00:13:18.668 --> 00:13:25.289
So when we feel like so emotionally shut down that we don't care about anything, that's worrisome.
00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:25.669
It is.
00:13:25.669 --> 00:13:28.700
And it's not that we're putting a boundary in place is why we don't care.
00:13:28.730 --> 00:13:33.320
It's just literally, you're like, you're just like, yeah, exactly.
00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:37.970
And if you are a caregiver in your profession, it's really hard.
00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:41.330
it's good to recognize when you are having compassion fatigue
00:13:41.740 --> 00:13:43.309
so how can women.
00:13:43.730 --> 00:13:49.029
step forward and take control of this and really cope with burnout that they're having.
00:13:49.294 --> 00:13:53.924
The one thing I teach, and you and I always talk about, is set clear boundaries.
00:13:54.325 --> 00:13:55.764
Set the boundaries at work.
00:13:55.774 --> 00:13:57.184
Set the boundaries at home.
00:13:57.205 --> 00:14:01.534
And if it is, I'm done at four o'clock, be done at four o'clock.
00:14:01.855 --> 00:14:04.144
Do something for you that you need to.
00:14:04.248 --> 00:14:06.548
You got to go pick your kid at six, but you're done at four.
00:14:06.768 --> 00:14:16.554
Go do something for you that you need to go on a walk, go do something that's going to help heal you not run home and go hit the grocery store and do all of those other things that have to be done in the
00:14:16.554 --> 00:14:17.774
house or whatever.