Radical Optimism: The Secret to Inner Strength & Balance

Randi:
0:14

Welcome back to the Women's Mental Health Podcast, where Randi and Jess, two licensed psychotherapists, talk about mental health, well-being, and strategies for coping with life's challenges.

Jess:
0:25

And how it's all normal and you're not

Randi:
0:27

alone. In today's podcast, we are going to explore the concept of radical optimism, its impact on women's mental health, and provide insights into strategies for embracing and cultivating

Jess:
0:38

it. Thanks Find us and more resources on womensmentalhealthpodcast.com.

Randi:
0:44

So, just a little foreword about this: Radical Optimism is trending right now because of a popular new album that Dua Lipa has put out into the universe. And if you don't know, I love Dua Lipa. She did the Barbie songs for the Barbie movie, and she has really fun, poppy, good vibe songs. Yeah, do you know her?

Jess:
1:07

story? No. Her story is that she wanted to be a pop star. She really wanted to be a pop star. She was like, I'm going to go do this in London. I think she moved there at like 16 by herself. Her parents said okay. not typical for her cultural background, and that she said, if I can't get it, get it going by like 18 or something like that, then I'll come home and do what they wanted. Okay. So she went and did it and she

Randi:
1:32

would go out to the starter, like, right off the bat, she just knew what she wanted. Yes. Said

Jess:
1:37

She always wanted to sing; she always wanted to just be and do this.

Randi:
1:42

So she has really manifested her journey, like, in a way, she's put herself out there, and she's still fairly young, isn't she? Oh, yeah, I think

Jess:
1:52

she's really young I have no idea how old she is, and I'm sure there's more to the story than what I just said because it's, I'm sure, but that is basically the idea of it. So let's go through and do our thing. Have you ever had any thoughts? Okay. Have you ever had these thoughts? What is radical optimism, and how does it relate to mental health? I didn't know either.

Randi:
2:13

Yeah. Is radical optimism just positive thinking, or is there more to it?

Jess:
2:18

Can radical optimism help with mental health issues like depression or anxiety?

Randi:
2:23

How can I incorporate radical optimism into my daily life?

Jess:
2:28

Especially because we can't even barely say it. Are there any specific techniques or exercises that I can do to develop a radical optimism mindset?

Randi:
2:37

Can radical optimism make me more resilient in the face of adversity? Oh, I love that.

Jess:
2:44

I don't even know what that means exactly.

Randi:
2:46

Okay. It means you can be more resilient using techniques of radical optimism. Okay.

Jess:
2:53

Does radical optimism mean ignoring negative emotions and pretending everything is fine? No, no, no. We're just going to say that. I don't even know what it really is, but no, that's not it.

Randi:
3:04

Is radical optimism effective for everyone, or are there individuals for whom it might not work? Hmm,

Jess:
3:11

I can think of like four. Can practicing radical optimism improve relationships with

Randi:
3:17

others? And how can I break the stigma surrounding mental health for women and promote radical optimism within my community or friend circle? Hmm. That's

Jess:
3:27

a good one. Okay. So again. Thank you. The reason it's trending right now is because of Dua Lipa, but Radical Optimism—see, I can't even say it—is about choosing to see the world through a lens of hope, resilience, and possibility, even in the face of adversity.

Randi:
3:45

Okay, from a mental health perspective, as a therapist, we can kind of say that radical optimism can be a powerful tool in combating conditions like depression, anxiety, or burnout. I think because it helps you switch your mindset if you are having a hard time and heading in a negative direction. Yeah.

Jess:
4:09

Just like I give out an assignment that says, look for three gratitudes—something that made you happy, or smile or made your life easy that day. It could be something big or simple, and you have to go look for it. It has to be different every day. At the end of the day, you write it down; in the morning, you read it; and then you go find three more. That changes your mindset. So that's got to be what this is. I have been giving out homework on radical optimism, and I didn't even know that. See?

Randi:
4:36

You were trending before I was even trending. I had been trending before

Jess:
4:39

I knew that. Okay. Okay.

Randi:
4:41

But this doesn't mean that you deny the reality of things going on around you, ignore what's happening, or ignore how you are feeling. It's okay to feel bad or sad. Like we always say, this doesn't mean that you just flat-out ignore all your other feelings.

Jess:
4:59

Oh, so it's not toxic positivity where you go; well, at least this, no, no, that sucks. And this is also happening at the

Randi:
5:08

same time. So you acknowledge that even though there are difficult things happening or difficult times going on, you still have faith or hope in the potential for positive change. It can take on a new twist or a new story for you.

Jess:
5:28

Even when I give that assignment,. You have to have faith that I'm giving you an assignment for a reason. And it has to be real. Mm hmm. They say it's just like dogs. They know when you're lying. Yeah. It has to be real. And so you, whoever decides to take that on, do. They have the faith that, okay, I'm doing this for

Randi:
5:46

a reason. And that's anything like stepping into therapy or talking to a friend about something; you are having faith that what you're doing or saying is going to have some type of lasting impact. And I think that's a good way of looking at radical optimism, because it really empowers us, especially as women, to reframe any type of negative thought we're having. And like you said, cultivating gratitude. And I feel like giving ourselves grace.

Jess:
6:17

Giving ourselves grace is really, really important because most of us are so damn hard on ourselves. And we don't acknowledge the good that we are or that we do. And we just chew at the things we

Randi:
6:31

don't like, we just focus on that. And I think that's why, in this, you're looking for that silver lining. in the dark moments or dark clouds, and that doesn't mean that you don't see those dark clouds or you don't understand that dark moment, but sometimes we just need a foothold to grab onto something, and maybe that hope or looking for that small gratitude can change everything. You just never know. I love storms

Jess:
6:59

though. Oh my gosh. I love to watch storms from the inside of my house.

Randi:
7:03

Yeah. You can't have rainbows without them. Oh, we are so going to be

Jess:
7:07

cheesy today. We've had just such cold weather here and snow and yuck. And now, like, we've got spring here. It's 70 degrees out, and I have seen all my neighbors in two days. I haven't seen these folks in three months, but I have seen them all in two days. So yeah. Well, let's go through and answer our frequently asked questions because I think there's so much more to learn about radicals. What the hell is optimism? Yeah, see, I can't remember what

Randi:
7:35

it is. How does radical optimism relate to mental health?

Jess:
7:41

So it is a philosophy that encourages looking for the good in every aspect of life based on reason and action. evidence. Cultivating a radical optimism mindset can positively influence mental health by promoting resilience, reducing stress and anxiety, and enhancing overall well-being. So it isn't toxic. It isn't ignoring it, but it's saying, I know it's there. I'm going to go look for it. And I believe that it truly is there.

Randi:
8:11

You found a way to do it before, and you need to find a way to do it again. There's evidence that it is possible that you can; it's not like I'm going to go fly on a dragon today. That's my, you know, happy outlook. You

Jess:
8:25

know, although wait, I got to tell you, when my daughter was five, we did a birthday party for her and we hired a fairy princess. Yes. Yeah. And they talk to you like a fairy princess, right? And she says, Yes, I wrote in on my dragon today; her car and my dragons were parked out front. Is that okay? Yeah. And we were like, yeah. Okay. And the whole time, it was just like that. And I was like, This is hysterical. So I guess some people do ride dragons.

Randi:
8:52

Okay, sure. So, but there's no hard-core scientific evidence of that. So, okay,

Jess:
8:59

Is radical optimism just positive thinking, or is there more?

Randi:
9:03

to it, Randy? So positive thinking is a part of radical optimism, but it. goes beyond just surface-level positivity—good vibes, whatever that is. Oh, good vibes only. Yeah, no. It combines positive thinking with evidence-based reasoning so that you can create positive thinking. a more authentic outlook on life. Like we were saying, it's there; you just have to reach for it. You know it's possible. You've seen somebody else maybe take those steps, or you've taken these steps before and you need to do it again. You know that you can get there. You need to find a way to get there. And so you acknowledge the challenges, or maybe if you've had setbacks, but then you are looking for growth, and you're looking for solutions for those growths. Can radical optimism help with mental health issues like depression or anxiety?.

Jess:
10:03

Yeah, I mean, right there, I was just thinking, yeah, okay, so that right there covers the depression and the anxiety piece. It doesn't dismiss or minimize mental health issues. Instead, what it's doing is offering this mindset that can complement professional health and treatment, which is so good. Let's

Randi:
10:22

normalize all this. Yeah, it goes hand in hand with sleep. CBT therapy, which is cognitive behavioral therapy, involves rewiring your brain to think differently. And so I think that this is essential to that type of

Jess:
10:37

therapy. It is. And this is a lot of what I do in my therapies. I'm very straightforward. And I help people focus on that. These positive aspects while also acknowledging the negative, but really using rational problems, solving with them, and reframing negative thoughts. I guess I've been practicing radical optimism for the last 15 years. Because it can be a really valuable tool in helping them change the way they look at things and learn. And again, I'm going to go back to those three gratitude things. People will be like, I didn't actually think that was going to work, and it totally works. These are professionals that I work with who are like, I know what you're doing. Cool. Then go do it.

Randi:
11:19

Yeah. But then, if you don't do it, you're not putting the work in; you're not going to see it. So this isn't just thinking and hoping; it's actually putting the work in to And knowing that you can achieve

Jess:
11:33

it. And I learned this. I've said it in the past podcast, but I learned it accidentally by taking a picture a day and trying to learn how to use my camera. All of a sudden, I was noticing these things that have been going on around me the entire

Randi:
11:49

time. You literally saw the world through a new lens.

Jess:
11:52

Yes. And I did not; I wasn't depressed. I wasn't; I was probably always anxious, but I was. I didn't know I needed that, and so that is how I learned, just by doing it accidentally. Okay, so Randy, I guess I just answered the question, maybe, but how can I incorporate radical optimism into my daily

Randi:
12:10

life? Well, like Jess said, she's, well, you didn't consciously do that, but it's, you can consciously shift your perspective by stepping into that and focusing on growth. Rather than failure, surround yourself with people who uplift you with positive influences. They always say, especially in business, to surround yourself with people that you want to be like or learn from because you can grow so much from that. And when you surround yourself with that type of energy, it changes your whole life. And you really start challenging those negative beliefs. And that flips a switch. Because if you say, Did I cause this? Or was the reasoning A, B, or C? You can look at things differently, like you said, through a different lens, and see, maybe I don't have as much control over that as I thought, or I do have enough control over this. And I can change it. So I will do A, B, and C and see what the outcome is.

Jess:
13:12

And what's interesting, too, is that when you start to give yourself permission to do these things, you also give permission to others to do them. And it's in little things too. Today, I was at the VA hospital. My husband was in an appointment, and I was like, I'm going to go take pictures outside because it's a beautiful campus. I found an owl, I found squirrels, I took pictures of trees, and I came back in with a big bag of pine cones, too. Don't ask. But next thing I know, there's like six other people out there trying to find the owl that I found. Yeah. Because they're like,

Randi:
13:42

Oh, I'm going to go find that owl. It's a domino effect. Yes. When you look at things differently and let people know that it's okay for them to take those steps or do those things, or, like you said, you could have just sat in the waiting room the whole time,. And I played on my phone. Yeah, but you got outside, and then you shared that with others, and it had this domino effect, and it's just small things like that that can have such a huge effect on us that lead to this radical optimism. So, Jess, do you think that there are any other specific techniques or exercises that we can do to really develop a mindset of being radically optimistic?

Jess:
14:28

Yes. Again, the journaling thing: I really want you guys all to either use your phone or write it down, but look, we have a journal. I say, yeah, we do. We have a gratitude journal on Amazon for kids and for adults, but I want you to go through and look for the three things, right? And acknowledge What made your life better today? And again, our journal will prompt you a little bit better. So you're not just flying.

Randi:
14:54

Yeah. Which I tend to do. I need something that's like, Do this, put this down, write this. But like Jess said, you could just do it in your notes app, like on your app too, if that's it, or jot it down in a book that you keep in your handbag, whatever it is. Or take a picture of

Jess:
15:08

it. Whatever it is that made you smile or laugh today,. Look at it at the end of the day, and then realize that this is going to take a couple of months. Honestly, it does. It takes a couple of months for you to realize, Oh, I can look at it differently.

Randi:
15:21

And Apple has a new journaling app on your phone that just doesn't have an Apple. So we are just going to ignore her right now, but it's a journaling thing, and it gives you prompts, and it's the same thing. You can pull up pictures and your memories that you've taken and write about them, or it'll bring up memories for you and say, Do you want to write about this? Or it'll pull up like your calendar and say, Oh, we saw you do this. Do you want to write about it? And so, that's a little creepy. It's all AI, everywhere. So that's a whole other podcast. So it's helped. prompt me to remember those good things. When I'm having a hard day, I can go back and be like, Oh, look at this time I spent with my daughter or my son. That's like Facebook.

Jess:
16:02

Facebook, which is why I'm still on Facebook. Yeah, but a private. Yeah, but the reason I'm still on Facebook is because they keep showing me these pictures of things I did 15 years ago or 10 years ago. And I was like, Oh, that was a good moment. You suck Facebook. I'll never

Randi:
16:16

leave you. Unless they delete your profile after 15 years,. Anyway, we're not going to talk about that. And then you lose all your memories.

Jess:
16:22

You lose all your stuff, your business, whatever. Another thing to do would be to do affirmation practices. Oh, yeah. Really tell yourself what you want to put out in the universe. Randi has a fun little bag that a friend of mine sent to

Randi:
16:36

her. Yeah, it's so cute. It's like a little bag of affirmations. But it's, like, funny and inappropriate ones, too. Oh,

Jess:
16:43

so, like, wherever appropriate. Read

Randi:
16:46

a couple. Like, get your sh*t together and go for a walk. That's great. I love that. I am more than worthy. I am a bleep warrior. Okay, I don't

Jess:
16:55

I know why she's bleeping because I swear up and

Randi:
16:57

down. How about my future being a golden, sparkly explosion of fucking awesomeness?

Jess:
17:03

I think that's it right there. That is going to

Randi:
17:06

be it. Yeah. And so, like, just telling yourself—even just four words—like this is it. I'm awesome. I'm amazing. I can deal with this. Just think if that was the running dialogue. Dialogue. Yeah. In your head. How that changes. And how

Jess:
17:24

cocky you could be. God, that'd be great. But in a good way. In a good way. There's nothing wrong with having a positive ego or a little cockiness. Don't be a dick. Right. Yeah. But there's nothing wrong with feeling good about who you are. Exactly. Yeah. Again, other CBT techniques Getting a therapist, I know, is hand-to-hand; just find what works for you. And really, what I tell my clients and everybody else is that I'm going to suggest this. You pick and choose

Randi:
17:52

what works for you. Yeah. Not everything. We don't put people in a box here. Nope. We don't believe that. All four have to be done and are going to change your life. You have to; it's like choosing your own adventure. I chose A, and this sent me down into a spiral. So let's not do that. Let's go back and choose B and see where this takes me. And yes, it is a lot of work. It is. But if you find the right adventure and pick the right multiple-choice answer, you can really change the outcome of your story.

Jess:
18:26

And it isn't, I want to say, that if you pick the right one, it's if you keep continuing until you find the right one for you. Right, you

Randi:
18:36

pick what

Jess:
18:36

works for you. Yeah, and sometimes we have to fail forward until we can figure it out, so Randy. Can radical optimism make me more resilient in the face of adversity? Oh, you loved this one.

Randi:
18:48

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I am huge on understanding resilience and becoming more resilient because I've done a lot of work with PTSD and clients who have experienced major trauma. And I have studied a lot of brain scans about people who have more resilient brains and personality types than other people. And how is it possible that maybe two people come from the same household or have the same background and the same parents, and one person is more resilient than the other? And some of our personalities lead to being more resilient, but we can give ourselves tools to become more resilient and to be able to bounce back from things that have dragged us down. And so when you choose to focus on strengths and you choose to create goals or find solutions rather than dwelling on, Oh my God, this is happening like again, and making that your narrative, you can really change. your mindset and really grow your brain differently. And you enhance the resilience within yourself when you do this. And so that just makes all your strengths come to the surface when you focus on that and learn how to harness your resilience. So just does radical optimism mean ignoring your emotions or negativity and just pretending everything is fine, like la la la la la?

Jess:
20:29

Sometimes Lalalala feels better in the moment. Yeah. Because you're like, I'm going to ignore that

Randi:
20:34

pile over there. I'm going to dissociate. I'm going to block it out. I don't want to deal with it. Yeah.

Jess:
20:40

But no, it's not ignoring it. It really encourages people to acknowledge and process their negative emotions. Rather than suppressing them, because when we suppress our negative emotions, they're still freaking there, they're going to pop back up and they always pop up when it's

Randi:
20:57

really inconvenient. Exactly, and trigger you. So listen to our podcast. You can go to our website. and look it up. It's called it's about sitting with your emotions. So learning to process your emotions is part of

Jess:
21:10

this. It is. And it's such a valuable lesson for us to grow. And it gives us such an amazing opportunity that we really can look at these challenges that we experienced without denying or dismissing them and really just focus on those experiences. So I was telling Randy prior to the podcast that something happened in our household last week that really triggered me—something that happened six years ago. I haven't been that upset in probably six

Randi:
21:39

years. Yeah, Jess was very chill, but she was, and I was like, Oh my gosh, this is really upsetting her. And she doesn't usually get super upset about anything. I would lose my sh*t.

Jess:
21:54

absolutely lost it. And it was. I was so upset, and I had to sit there with those feelings and go, Okay, what is going on? It was because I was triggered because it reminded me of what happened. six years ago, and I had to put in my boundaries. I had to take a deep breath. I had to just process and deal with it. I was like, I can't deal with this now. I will process this tomorrow You know i'll respond tomorrow, even though I said

Randi:
22:20

If you had responded in that moment, it would have been ugly. Yeah, an ugly explosion She chose to sit in on those feelings and process them. She told me about it You know she went to a safe space where she could vent and that it wasn't going to have a backlash of just being like in that moment and snapping, and then she was like, okay, and you could weigh like this happened and this happened. This was good, and this was bad. This is what needs to happen moving forward. This is what I need to say. I put

Jess:
22:54

my boundaries are in place Yes. and expressed my needs the way I teach clients to, and it worked out. The situation was resolved. In a very healthy way. Yeah. But if I hadn't sat with them and I hadn't thought, okay, this has the possibility to turn out well. Mm-hmm, this isn't going to be six years ago again. Right.

Randi:
23:16

Yeah, if you had stayed in that narrative that this is happening again, I'm not going to do this, this is horrible, this is, yeah, like, I'm not doing this, like, a whole relationship could have imploded. Instead of taking that, this isn't then; this is now. What can we do? How can we communicate? How can I think about this? Let me have some empathy for that person. Let me have some empathy for myself. And

Jess:
23:45

really wanting it to be changed and different.

Randi:
23:47

And knowing that's what you wanted deep down was to have this play out differently than it had in the past,. Mm hmm. And you were. giving yourself unknowingly radical optimism.

Jess:
23:59

Wow, I can never say that, but man, yeah, I guess I've been doing this all the way around.

Randi:
24:04

And though that leads to the question of whether practicing radical optimism can improve relationships with others,? Well, we just gave an example. That's

Jess:
24:12

We just gave the answer. Sorry, I answered it. And you

Randi:
24:15

can do that with your personal and professional lives. Maybe there's somebody at work that you are hitting heads with or that you don't want to work with, like, How can I? get to this point where I feel comfortable with this or confident with this. What goals can I set in place? Like, what paths can I take to get there? I have hope that you're going to get there, but I also put in the work to get there.

Jess:
24:41

So I love that she gets the final one on this because she's so good at it. This is really her; this is her thing. How can I break? Okay, Randi, actually, how can I break the stigma surrounding mental health and promote radical optimism within my community?

Randi:
24:56

Well, start with being open about your own mental health journey. Which you are all the time. Which I'm very open with Everybody on my, in my personal life and in my social media and my pages and stuff, I talk very openly about when I struggle with my mental health or when I'm doing really good, and I'm kicking ass, but I, and this is why we started this podcast and why we're so passionate about it is because we believe there needs to be a community of And people need to know that they're not alone, and when you share about things that are going good and bad in your life, I feel like that, as we said at the beginning, it has a domino effect on people, and then they feel like they can reach out, and they can share their story, and their story might lead to somebody else sharing their story, or they might find a connection. And you are just, I always say this, like the spoke, the center of the wheel, and then the spokes come out from that, and then you get this whole wheel moving because of that. So you are only maybe one cog in this wheel, but it creates this huge impact. I'm laughing. Go round and round. She's laughing. I'm laughing. My hands are flying all over the place.

Jess:
26:13

They are, but it's also because I always call myself a tool. I always say

Randi:
26:17

I am a tool, not like in a tool tool, but

Jess:
26:20

I'm a tool, and it makes people giggle. Because you affect everything around you, whether you mean to or not Everything from these little people that we're raising—you know, right now it's like arguing with myself on a daily basis—we are affecting them, and we're affecting how they respond to others. And I see the empathy that my daughter gives her friends. And I'm like, wow, that is so amazing. And I think it's because of how I've learned to talk with her. So she's doing that with her

Randi:
26:51

friends. Yeah. And if we don't, we won't be able to see that. See, there is always a lasting impact that we have on other people. This might affect somebody's marriage, relationship, or work 10, 15, or 50 years from now, but you don't know that, and you have to hold that in yourself, like what I do matters and what I do can affect other people no matter how small it is. And so that's why I am so passionate about engaging in. conversations about this, advocating for mental health awareness and women's health overall, and leading by example. So, other people can then lead by example.

Jess:
27:35

It is. It's because you're opening up the space that gives them permission to be who they are. And it's such a cool thing to do—just learn to be who you are. I wish I learned to do this in 20 years

Randi:
27:47

ago. Oh, I know. I say I love my 40s because it's so cool. stepping into who I always knew I was meant to be. Exactly. And now, give yourself permission. Yeah. And not being insecure about that. And I feel like radical optimism leads to that. And research is really showing that when you have an optimistic outlook on life like this, it really improves your overall life. Mental health and well-being create more resilience and even help with your physical health.

Jess:
28:22

Yeah, I can totally see that. Yeah, I can see how you feel better. You get out, you tell yourself, I can do this, and you start doing things. And I can see how it would help with coping with the stresses of life. It would be more manageable to approach it with this radical optimism, theme or idea. It's really going to allow us to do it. navigate some of these setbacks with grace. And again, it's not failing. It is falling. It's failing forward and learning because if we just gave up every time we failed, we would still be on our butts, not even walking.

Randi:
28:56

And it doesn't mean you have to be happy. Go lucky, 24 seven. That's not this either. No, it's just knowing that there's hope and that you have options and can change. the way things are happening for you. And part of that too, like we said, is practicing mindfulness, focusing on gratitude, like journaling, and surrounding yourself with people that are good for you. Kick the assholes to the curb. Mm hmm. Engage in self-care. And like we said again and again, if you listen to any of our self-care podcasts, it's not about self-care. Spending money. Not bougie. Yeah. It's about nourishing yourself and your soul, like journaling, spending time in nature, or spending time with your kids. It's all those things surrounding yourself that can really change your whole life. Go pick some pine

Jess:
29:44

cones. Go look for pine cones in the sun. Or now. Or now. You never know what you're going to see. So remember, radical optimism. isn't about ignoring the challenges. It's about facing them with courage, resilience and a belief in your ability to overcome.

Randi:
30:02

Yeah. Believing in yourself. That's huge. Right now, I believe in myself. I believe in myself. I think that's hard for people to say out loud. And so that's a wrap for today. We hope this episode has inspired you to embrace radical optimism and harness how it can transform your life and your mental health, and we want you to remember that the future is bright when viewed through the lens of radical optimism.