Transcript
WEBVTT
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Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast.
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I'm randy.
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I'm And I'm Jess.
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And we are two licensed psychotherapists, and this is a safe space where we talk about mental health, well being, and strategies for coping with life's challenges.
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And how all of this is normal, and you are not alone.
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Today we're addressing a topic that unfortunately many women face in the workplace.
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How to deal with bullies at work.
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And it's such a good topic because it's so hard to tell, especially being women.
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If these are bullies and we constantly talk about bullies with our kids, but we never think about it.
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With ourselves and with the people we work with
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right and I mean there's lots of situations where it can happen And this kind of parallels what we talked about last week in our episode on burnout This can go like hand in hand with that Exactly, so you can find us and more information and our past episodes at women's mental health podcast comm Have you ever had these thoughts?
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What constitutes bullying in the workplace?
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Is workplace bullying a common experience?
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How can I tell the difference between tough management, somebody just talking to me straight, and bullying?
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What
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should I do if I'm experiencing bullying at work?
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Can men be victims of workplace bullying, too?
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That's a great question.
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How can workplace bullying affect mental health?
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What are the legal options for dealing with workplace bullying, especially if it's gotten out of control and you don't, you're not getting any help like at work?
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We'll talk about that.
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How can I support a colleague who is being bullied?
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Can a workplace culture be changed to prevent bullying?
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bullying.
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And that is such a, there's a whole entire thing about like organizational psychology.
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Yes.
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It's all about that.
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Where can I find resources and support in dealing with workplace bullying?
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So we'll answer these.
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thoughts about this topic towards the end.
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Workplace bullying can feel overwhelming and very isolating, especially for women, but you are not alone.
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So we're going to get into what this looks like and how you can take back control.
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We know what bullying is, but let's talk about what is it in the workplace.
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What this is repeated and harmful behavior directed at an employee that's intended to intimidate, humiliate, or undermine them.
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It can come in the form of verbal abuse.
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Exclusion, sabotage, or even physical intimidation.
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So unlike conflicts that arise from occasional disagreements, bullying is ongoing and has a power imbalance, which is huge right there.
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So like you said,
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repeated, repetitive.
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ongoing.
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So this is like a constant.
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It's not like this happened, once, upon a time.
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This is ongoing.
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And it can be very subtle, too.
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For example, someone might start spreading rumors.
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They could, Constantly be like criticizing your work, maybe to others or even to you, they might exclude you from important meanings and projects and then play it off Oh, I just forgot, but when you start seeing this pattern emerge, then that their intention is to chip away at your confidence.
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And take you down at your place on the rung in the ladder in the workplace, maybe they feel threatened by you.
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Or what they're trying to do is block you from moving up.
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I've seen that before too, where they block you and you don't know that they're blocking you until way later that you're like, that's why I couldn't get
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out of the department.
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That's why I didn't get that promotion or, I didn't know that there was a job opening and things like that.
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Exactly.
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And what they're really doing oftentimes, too, is trying to keep you there because it serves them a purpose.
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Because maybe you're doing part of the job that they don't want to do.
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And so if you move, they have to step up and do it.
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And so sometimes it's the intimidation is there because it serves, well, it always serves them a purpose.
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But yeah, I've seen that.
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it's important to understand that workplace bullying is a problem.
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isn't just having a bad day or a single argument.
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Yeah, it's not a once off.
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No, and there are times people get in fights the most common I hear about is the AC.
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Somebody wants it colder than somebody else.
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Like how many offices have you been in where they actually have a freaking lock?
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on the AC thing because that is the thermostat because that is the biggest fight people have.
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That's not bullying.
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Yeah, it's not surrounded around your workplace or your career.
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Exactly.
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What it is a pattern.
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What Randy was talking about is this pattern that makes you feel unsafe, Disrespected or devalued in your work environment.
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Oh, that's such a powerful word.
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Devalued.
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I like that.
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Devalued.
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So where does workplace bullying come from?
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Like where can we see the patterns or the origins of this?
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Where did it all start from?
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this all starts from power dynamics.
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Somebody wants to be in power.
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They might feel threatened by you, by your skills or your position.
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They want to assert dominance.
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They want to compensate for their own insecurities.
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Their tiny penis.
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Small dick.
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I like that small dick energy.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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But what this is, in some toxic work environments, the culture may even unintentionally encourage bullying by rewarding aggressive or competitive behavior instead of being collaborative, I think of those old car sales, where they do those competitions.
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Yeah, I think
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of, like, when I watch, too on Netflix a lawyer show or something.
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Yeah.
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They set each other a standard.
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Yeah, against like you're making partner and you have to take on so many cases and work 5, 000 hours and put in all this extra time and then maybe we'll consider you and it's and often, especially women, since we are paid less and often seen as less as a person as our male colleagues.
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Counterparts that we are always trying to overexcel and overextend ourselves and do more than is necessary.
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that can feed into this, behavior.
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Well, and that's like the Clinton suit, We got to all wear pantsuits.
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You can't dress feminine if you're in an executive position.
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I've seen women do that where.
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They dress a little bit more manly at work, and I don't want to call it manly or not feminine, because they're trying to, More unisex.
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There you go.
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That's so much better.
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Thank you.
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Yes, more unisex.
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Because they're trying to make it so they earn it.
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They didn't sleep their way to the top, but they're trying to play with what we used to call the big boys,
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Yeah.
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Or the boys club and that leads into the societal, components of things that there is like a norm, that women should be seen a certain way or women shouldn't be in the workplace as like history had laid out before.
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And it's no, we're here.
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We're powerful.
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We're important.
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Ooh, wait, hang on.
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Everybody who's listening.
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I just want you to say we're here.
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We're powerful.
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We are important.
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We're here.
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We're powerful.
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We are important.
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I'm just, I had to repeat that right there.
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Yeah.
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And so this kind of leads to, in some cases that bullies target women specifically because of these gender stereotypes or because they perceive those stereotypes to be true.
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Maybe they've been raised a certain way and they're using tactics to undermine your authority or your professional standing.
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Well, think about it.
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You just recently went and purchased a larger item recently and the sales person, Oh, she's like cringing and trying to breathe.
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The salesperson didn't talk to you, but went to your husband and your husband turned around and said, Oh, no, I'm not the one buying it.
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You need to talk to her, her money.
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And he still talked to him over
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me.
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Yes.
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And then we ended up going to a different person to purchase something and that was all fine and dandy.
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But then we went to the financing department.
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We hadn't met them before.
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And I'm literally writing the check.
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Everything is only in my name only.
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My partner and my kids are there with me, cause they were excited.
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And He's sitting there ignoring me and talking to him and asking him, so what do you do for work?
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I've had financing guys do that too, where I'm sitting there putting, my husband's social, I'm doing everything, I'm filling it out and I'm, working it out.
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And yes, he is the mathematician and he does all the math.
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And the guy was like, Oh, your wife knows all this.
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He goes, Oh yeah I'd be lost without her, but she's probably not going to be lost without me.
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Even when I went with my husband to buy something with him too, he still said, you have to get through her for me to make this final decision.
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So don't treat her like crap.
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And they still are like, what color do you want?
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And I'm like, I don't, that's not what I'm here for.
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Do you know there's
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a mirror in the visor and you're like, Do I care?
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How fast does this go?
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Yeah.
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I
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was like, tell me about the engine.
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Tell me about the warranty.
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Anyway, so this workplace bullying, how does it affect us as women via our mental health?
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When we, as women are bullied in the workplace, it has such a huge impact.
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On our mental health, it leads to chronic stress and anxiety and depression, even PTSD.
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And if we could diagnose it, we would probably call it compound PTSD, CPTSD.
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It is not a diagnosis yet, but that is when all of this just builds and builds.
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And we get this compounded PTSD, this constant.
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feeling of being under attack.
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It will erode your self confidence and it's going to really make it.
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So not only are you occupationally burnt out, listen to our podcast that we did on that.
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You're not going to be able to enjoy your work and you're going to leave.
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And that's what they're trying to do.
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They are trying to make your life miserable and make you leave.
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Because they don't want you there anymore.
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And unfortunately, sometimes there's nothing you can do.
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We'll talk later about this, but sometimes you have to leave because it isn't going to change, right?
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If it's unhealthy and it's toxic, exactly.
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You have to take like these steps to protect yourself.
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And especially as women, we often internalize these experiences.
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So instead of like letting it out.
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We pull it in and that makes us question our ability, question our career, like feeling sometimes like we're the problem.
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Almost like we're being, gaslit and that we start thinking like, is it me?
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Is it them?
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Is it me?
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And then we start singing Taylor Swift songs.
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It's me.
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I'm the problem.
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I'm the problem.
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And I don't know.
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Sometimes I feel like that song, even though I love her, did a disservice because I think we're taught that we are often the problem, but we are usually not the problem.
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And we will always say sorry first, always say sorry.
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Listen to our other podcasts about saying no and stop saying sorry.
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all these things compounded can lead to feelings of self doubt feeling helplessness, feeling hopelessness, and this can spill over then from the workplace into your personal life, your personal relationships.
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It can affect your sleep.
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Yes.
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It can affect your physical body.
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It can affect your overall just well being.
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It, bleeds over into everything.
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And honestly, we are already exhausted for the most part.
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We're caring for our family.
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We may be managing our own health issues, going through perimenopause.
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At this point, most of us are starting to hit these different hormonal things, dealing with basic societal pressures.
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And then we got to deal with this crap at work too.
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And so this is where it becomes so overwhelming You have to like, find relief or escape.
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that's hard when you get to that point where you're just like, I can't handle it anymore because, again, these things that can lead into other mental health issues and addictions.
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Over shopping.
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Over spending.
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Like drinking.
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'cause you're trying to, eating, yeah.
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Overeating.
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You're trying to escape this reality that you feel like is out of control.
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And so you're trying to take back control of things, but then it can spiral out of control.
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So how do we start to take back control and cope with workplace bullying?
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Something I learned, very young age, is document everything.
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Oh yeah, a calendar, a day planner, anything, notes in your phone.
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Do not keep
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it in your work computer and work file because if they fire you, they take your laptop, they shut you down, you can't get to your emails.
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Always blind copy yourself at home in a separate email that you know you just keep for this Or just a separate file so you have your copies, Keep record of the incident, the date, the times, what was said or done, any witnesses, what your involvement was, if you know what caused or started this.
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Documentation can help you build a case if you decide to report the behavior to HR or if you're going to go get legal help.
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If you don't have documentation, You have no proof.
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It is.
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He said, she said, and you have to document.
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Yeah.
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And it's really hard to recall things to at a later date.
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Yes.
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They even say like somebody who just witnessed a crime, they go in and say what happens and it's not even 24 hours later and.
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So if you're thinking back, six months or a year and you're like, I think this happened, I think this person was there.
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I think this, that's just even more stress.
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So if, once you start noticing this is happening, definitely document it.
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The other thing for documentation too, in addition to writing some states, check with your state, you can record without the other person's permission.
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maybe you want to take and make a recording of what is happening or the conversation.
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So you have it.
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But again, check with your state laws because some states it's illegal and so you can't use it unless you say, I'm recording you, but in a lot of states it's legal.
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So it's all fair game to record that kind of stuff.
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What else, Randy?
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You should, as we always talk about, set boundaries.
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So we have a podcast about that too.
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We have lots of articles on it on our website.
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So first start to see if you can limit your interactions with the bully.
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Okay.
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If that's not possible because you're working, your boss, it's your coworker, your colleague, you're a day to day action.
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That's hard.
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You don't have to engage in their behavior.
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You don't have to accept their mistreatment of you.
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You can still be professional and say, no, I won't allow that.
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Use assertive communication.
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Don't apologize.
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Yeah.
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Stand your ground without being confrontational.
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It's really hard because we, as women are taught like you're so emotional and this that and the other, like when you even just, yeah, talk about things that are bothering you when you're trying to be professional, people can twist it.