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Randi:
Welcome to the Women's Mental Health Podcast, where Randy and Jess, two licensed psychotherapists, talk about women's mental health, well-being, and strategies for coping with all of life's challenges.
Jess:
And how is all of this normal?
Randi:
In this episode, we are going to try to explain teenage behavior before leaving home and its impact on women's mental health and provide some insights into strategies for coping
Jess:
with this. We understand that navigating these challenges of parenting can be so overwhelming, especially when it comes to understanding why our teens are acting out before they're getting ready to leave. And we're talking about this time right now, which is the second semester of senior
Randi:
year. We started talking about this because I was talking to Jess about what I was going through, and she was like, This is a thing. And I was like, It is? I'm not alone in this. Tell me more about this. And then she already knew about it. And then I started researching it. And we were like, Oh my gosh, we need to talk about that. Yeah. So we're going to dive in and explore this whole life phase together. And hopefully, we can help support you through this.
Jess:
Okay, so find us and more resources on womensmentalhealthpodcast.com. Have you ever had these thoughts?
Randi:
Why do some teens engage in such risky or challenging behavior right before leaving?
Jess:
home? How can I tell if what my teenager is doing is normal or if there are more serious issues?
Randi:
What are some strategies that I can use to really address these challenging behaviors in my teen?
Jess:
Should I worry if my teen is experiencing substance use?
Randi:
How can I support my teenager's mental well-being during this super tough
Jess:
time? Is it normal for my teen to distance themselves from family and spend more time either in their room or with their friends right now? And
Randi:
What role does autonomy play in a teen's development? And this is very important because I have a hard time with this, like letting go so that they have the choice but giving boundaries for them too. And that's a really important question. And
Jess:
it is. It's so hard right now at this age because you're like, I want to give them space, but I don't want to feel like it. I'm abandoning them. And so how do you figure out what you need or don't need with them? How can I prepare my teen for the challenges of leaving home and going to college?
Randi:
And what should you do if your teenager's behavior has really become concerning or they're becoming a danger to themselves?
Jess:
or others? And then how can I maintain a strong, supportive relationship with my teen? During this phase, especially because you don't want to enable them and you don't want to abandon them,? All of these things that happen
Randi:
to keep that relationship with love but it's like It's
Jess:
Did you do your damn homework? Why am I getting another notice? Saying you didn't turn something
Randi:
in Exactly. Like why are you prioritizing like your friends over this or your family and so what do you mean you're not
Jess:
going to school today? Exactly. what? What are you talking about? You have four months to go; let's do this.
Randi:
Yeah, we're at the finish line. Let's not trip at the finish line. I actually said that to my daughter this week
Jess:
I had a psychology friend because. Our oldest is already in adulthood, right? I've already done this phase, like eight years ago. And at the time, I had one of my friends say they called it shitting the nest. And I was like, What do you mean? And I guess there are better ways to say it, like spoiling the nest. She said, No, not what; what he's doing is normal. This is called shitting the nest. So there's actually a group; I can't remember the birds, but there's these birds. And what the babies do is poop all over the nest to the point where the parents are like, Oh, I'm out. You're done. You, this is; I can't do this anymore. You need to go. Huh. And that's what the teenagers are doing. They're acting out for so many reasons right now because there's this big life change happening. Yeah.
Randi:
So it's this huge transition, and they're just scared and fearful. Yeah. So they're acting
Jess:
out. Yeah. And if it was easy to stay home,. They would never leave us, right?
Randi:
So they're shitting all over us.
Jess:
Yes, they're shitting in your nest. Right now, these behaviors that we're talking about—and we're kind of joking—are okay—not going to school, not turning in your homework. Sometimes it's the attitude. Oh, boy, is it the attitude that starts coming out? It's that you can't tell me what to do, and I'm leaving. Yeah, I'm
Randi:
almost an adult,
Jess:
pushing the boundaries, I'm going to do stuff with my girlfriend or my boyfriend, or come out a little later.
Randi:
And let's also talk about things like hormones. Mood swings, their own mental health. If they're a female pMS, like all these things coming into play, their bodies are still developing, and their brains are still developing. There's all these things that their
Jess:
brains, your child's brains do not stop developing until about 23 to 25. Yep. Their brains are still trying to grow, develop, and figure stuff out. But our society says, Hmm, you're going to be graduating, and you're 18; you're an adult now. Yeah. We're
Randi:
like, we need to kick you out of
Jess:
door. We coddle them now. And now we have to, like, let them go like that. It's not even letting them go. It's like pushing them out. From a mental health perspective, though I know a lot of these behaviors, they're influenced by various factors, like you said, the hormones and peer pressure. And I know there's other things that some of these kids have. We're not talking about all the kids that have oppositional defiant disorder, conduct disorder, or depression. We're talking about just right now, the second semester of senior
Randi:
year. Mm hmm. So really, it's about the stress and uncertainty of transitioning into this adulthood phase that can also impact their mental health, and let's be honest, our parents, the caregivers, whether you're a foster parent, an adoptive parent, a teacher, or two, I'm sure that they get pushed back. It's really affecting everybody as a whole. And this happens. Mm
Jess:
hmm. I was so toasty, and I'll just share I was so done. Like, I didn't know if we were going to make it through the end of our senior year.
Randi:
year. I feel like, right now, I want to run away. Yes, like, why is this happening? I can't handle this. I thought life was supposed to get easier. Like, my sister has younger kids that are like, just three under six, and she's like, Does it get easier? And I'm like, no, if there's just new challenges that are
Jess:
different; it's just, and that's what I tell parents. It doesn't get easier. Like after the first year, yes, it gets easier. Well, you,
Randi:
you have a better understanding.
Jess:
right? But it just gets different. It's all hard. And it just. And it's so hard when we're watching our kids go through this really challenging behavior, and honestly, they're acting like assholes, and really, it's so frustrating to see all this because it's so frustrating. I wish I could have behaved better, but I was. It was so anxiety-provoking for me because I was like, What are we doing? Why are we doing this?
Randi:
I've been trying to like temper, like my reaction, but another thing too is like the guilt of it. Then I feel like, Did I do something wrong? Could I have done something different 10 years ago that would have changed this now? And then just bringing this up, I'm like, Okay, this is normal. This is a normal transition. And it's teething, learning to walk, or something. But yeah, basically, they're getting their teeth into adulthood, and there's growing pain happening. And so we need to be understanding and empathetic about that. And I think that's helping me flip the script in my head and, like, my expectations of what I expect of my teenager as a senior leaving high school and transitioning.
Jess:
And part of this, though, is really important: make sure you take care of your mental health. And I'm saying this afterwards. After this, Randy's and I have a massage. I was like, good job. Good job. You need to make sure you're taking care of yourself because they're going to do what they do. And I got it; we survived. We're all three of us, and four of us are still here. We made it through that challenging time. And I do, I will say. I don't know if we would have done it better, but man. night of graduation, we're like, you're driving, we're drinking. And we went and had martinis at this big We're celebrating. Yes, we had a big fancy dinner, and I was like, You're driving us home. Yeah. And dad and I were like, okay, we're going to have a martini here because, man, we made it. We were like, oh my god, we made it to the
Randi:
end of the senior year. You've got to prioritize things like self-care in some ways. And Okay, so that's not
Jess:
exactly self-care. Yeah. That was celebrating, but that wasn't self-care.
Randi:
Well, okay, so celebrating self-care, but not that part. But another way is that we really have to learn how to help our teenagers cope and cope ourselves. So what does that include? Communication? Yes. Open communication? It's
Jess:
not taking it personal. That's actually the huge piece as
Randi:
parents. Being ADHD, I'm very like I have reactive sensitivity dysphoria, which you guys can look up on our website because we have talked about it and it's actually one of our most popular podcasts. So we tend to jump. to conclusions. I'm thinking of the Office movie and the jump to conclusion map. And we go straight to the emotional side of it instead of taking a step back and being like, What's really happening here? I had a heart-to-heart with my daughter to ask, What's really happening here? And then she was able to tell me that she's frustrated with how she's feeling. And I tell her how I'm feeling and why I'm reacting the way I do, reacting out of a place of love and wanting to support her and push her, but understanding that maybe what I was doing was too much because then she was having this anxiety about not only her own thoughts but also my reactions too. And
Jess:
It's so hard because, as parents, when they're little, they come to us, and we fix it. We get a bandage. We do hugs. We have the right answers when they're little. at this age. We still want to fix it. Yeah,
Randi:
but we need to teach them how to fix it for themselves.
Jess:
And we want to just do it. It's just, Oh, I want to wrap my kid in bubble wrap every day," I say. I just want to put her in bubble wrap and protect her always. All my friends, everybody. It's just so hard because. They have to learn some of this stuff and let's face it, some of us have kids that have to learn the hard way I'm one of those. Mm hmm. I have to learn the hard way sometimes and my kids are the same
Randi:
way Yeah, and I tell my teenager too, like I was a late bloomer. It took me a while to get things going for myself. That's
Jess:
because you're not a late bloomer because you're ADHD, right? Well, I learned that later Yeah, we're not late bloomers. We're just different brands. They develop differently, and we do things the hard fucking way
Randi:
right, and so that's why Again, it's so important to communicate this with our kids, teach them to communicate with us and also have boundaries. They need to have boundaries with us, but we also need to have boundaries with them and learning to compromise on
Jess:
that. I wonder, Randy, if you went through it and validated it with her, and you said, Hey, we just did a podcast on this because we're talking about it, and this is a really normal phase to go through. Oh yeah. Do you think that she would be like, Oh, I'm, this is normal?
for
Randi:
me. Like, I wanted to talk to her about this because I was going to tell her that we did all this research and that this is normal and you just went through it, and then you're not alone, and so your friends are probably all going through it, and I noticed too. Like, I want to say that this is probably true for myself, and I want to say that I notice it with my daughter and her friends group; they're kind of pulling away from each other a little bit, and I think that that is also a protective thing, like you're losing the support system and you don't have one already, or you don't know what that's going to look like and changing. And there's grief over that. There's grief over losing this phase of childhood, going
Jess:
to school every day, knowing exactly how it's going to be laid out, doing this for 12 years. Yeah, we pretty much know,
Randi:
And
Jess:
Now it's all unknown. And the kids right now—these are kids that four years ago started school when a lot of schools
Randi:
were shut down, it happened. And yeah, that was my daughter; her first year of high school was in and out, in and out, hybrid, really mostly online. So it is, and who knows what's going to happen in the future? So they also have this: we don't know if something could happen again, and it could throw us off course again.
Jess:
Exactly. A lot of people just started getting a routine this year, maybe the year before. We're still seeing all these illnesses and stuff. I'll get off my soapbox, but people are so sick these last couple of months because we're. still adjusting after such an interesting time, and I know every state is different and everybody has different beliefs. We're not getting into that, but our kids are still not normal.
Randi:
I think another way that I've learned to think differently about this is to have a growth mindset about it. This is a time for them to grow. This is a period for them to find themselves. This is a period of self-discovery and letting them fail. And I like to tell my kids—we've talked about this before—that it's not failing. No, it's not failing. It's failing forward. Yes. Mistakes are part of life, and you learn so much from them. So I'm also reminding myself that these mistakes, even though I want to protect her from them, are essential for her growing into
Jess:
who she is. Be honest. You also want to strangle her for them. Come on. There are these times where you're just like, really,
Randi:
Really, this is what we're doing. It's okay. Call your friends, your sister, your mom, and your bitch about it, let it out, vent it, and then go back, talk about it, research it, and then take care of it yourself. Put on your oxygen mask first, find what you need to do to center yourself, and then go to your kids and help them work through it. Yeah. Our oldest
Jess:
was just so angry. It was, and we were the biggest holes ever as parents. We were holding him to the line. This is the rule. This is what we were doing. Going back, I think I would have been a little softer—a little softer, maybe—but it was just like, we had to just contain this. Oh, and that's an amazing concept, right? Think about containment. When we have them as babies, we literally hold them, Like I'm holding like an infant in my arm, rocking them, We're containing them
as
Randi:
they get older. swaddle them and
Jess:
wrap them up. And then, as they get older,. In our containment field, our arms get bigger and bigger and bigger, so that way we can open up for them. And there are times in our lives—9, 10, whatever—that we have to close that circle and contain them more. And now we're telling them, Peace out, wide open space; see you later; you're 18; what are you going to do? But really, it's a time to provide containment with them, but to give them a little bit more—I want to say freedom—that's not it; let them make the choices or the direction. Yeah,
Randi:
autonomy over their choices.
Jess:
Yeah, and be like, okay, what do you think you want to do? What do you think this is? Instead of trying to fix it,. It's hard. This is the
Randi:
hardest. It's hard. Like Bob the Builder, I'm here; just let me tap, and it's going to fix it. too, like teachers reaching out and their counselors reaching out, and I have had to tell her teachers and counselor that I am letting her figure this out on her own. I have to step back.
Jess:
We are probably right when they get to be like, right before high school as parents, we should probably start having some of our own lives. So many parents are so wrapped up in their kids that we don't have our own hobbies. And then what happens is that we're
Randi:
friendships or
Jess:
support systems. And then what we're worried about, as parents and moms, is that. They're going to leave us.
Randi:
Yeah. empty nest syndrome. Two on the opposite side are true. And it's also a huge time for people getting divorced. Oh, yeah. You're like, hey,
Jess:
The kids are out. I don't actually like you anymore. I don't know who you are.
Randi:
are. Yeah. I don't know who I am, either. You have no sense of self. That's a whole other podcast, so you have to create distance too, and if you start it earlier on, it's not as hard. It's not
Jess:
like a slap in the face. I'm not saying abandon them and go get a whole hobby and new life, but I'm saying when you have been some of these moms who are like, I've been running the sports and driving on travel teams, and we've been your club. And you're like, wait. What's my Facebook group now? I think it's great if you can find other things to do and still support them. Yeah.
Randi:
So here's another important point. How do we differentiate between this normal average second semester slump and. more serious mental health issues?
Jess:
Ooh, I like the second semester slump. I think it needs, yeah, yeah. Second semester slump. It's not even pregnancy. It's just, Oh dear gosh, here we go again. So like, normal versus
Randi:
When it's concerning, you should talk to somebody—a therapist or a psychiatrist—or they need more help and support than you can give them. Any
Jess:
As far as you're concerned, I want everyone out there to follow their gut. Really, truly, your mama gut. You know your child. Better than anybody else out there. I want you to follow your gut. If you're worried, reach out to their school counselors. ask them, how can I help support
Randi:
you? Do you have resources I can use? Things like that.
Jess:
Or talk to your kids and say, I'm concerned. What is going on? And a lot of parents forget that, like they're still kids and they don't want to look at you like an adult, I don't know if y'all remember dating when you went on dates and you're sitting across from a restaurant talking to somebody; it feels like an interview. That's crappy. The one that feels better is when you're next to them walking. strolling along, and you have these nice, fluid kinds of organic conversations. Your kids are still like that too. So bribe them. Hey, I'm going to Starbucks. Why don't you come?
Randi:
with me? Yeah, I'm going to Target. I want to go shopping. That's my daughter's love
Jess:
language. Okay. So, say mine is Starbucks. And with your boys, who don't want to leave the house,. Play a game. Get some food. No, take him somewhere and get food. Be like, Hey, are you hungry? Let's go here and pick something that's more than five minutes from the house or
Randi:
you know So you have that time to talk with them and drive in the car, and like you said, it's not such a sterile environment. It's not hey; look me in the eyes and talk to me about this right now It's hey; let's just say yeah. We're just
Jess:
hanging out. Just hanging out. It's called windshield time for a reason, so just have that windshield time, and if you're concerned, take it up a notch. I would rather you be like, I'm worried and let's take a look at it, versus ignoring it all the time.
Randi:
time. So what are some other strategies that we can address for these challenging behaviors?
Jess:
Well, I think you said it before, Randi: empathy. You talked about setting boundaries, being empathetic, and having this open communication. The other part is, what can you do? Let's do therapy with Randi for a minute. What can you do? Therapy with Randi. It's cute, actually. What can you do right now to encourage something like a healthy coping skill for your daughter without calling it that, because she'll know you're doing therapy?
Randi:
She's going to be like, Don't, don't therapeutize me. Yeah. Don't therapeutize me. Therapeutize me. I'm not your client. I'm your daughter. Well, for her too, I usually go to her and ask her, What can I do to help you? What do you need right now? And then, whether that's like a movie or, I say, do you want to go do one of our things together? Like her and me, even though I have other children, one-on-one time is important for me to take with my kids. So I'll be like, Let's go. We like to do crafts together. We like to go to the movies together. We like to shop together. So I'll ask her to do that stuff so that we can have that one-on-one time. And then it's casual, and it's not forced. And then I ask her about her friends and what she's doing right now. She likes to play. So I asked about that. And then I work in. Those other things are important for her to develop, and I also let her know you need these coping skills. And I often use myself as an example of how I did or did not have this support structure when I was your age. And this is why I'm trying. I don't talk to her like a baby. I talked to her like she was a capable woman and an adult. And I think that she respects that more too.
Jess:
Well, because she is my daughter, she asks for dates. She'll do it, mom; we need a date soon. Okay, cool. What do you want to do? And that's just her and me getting out and doing some one-on-one time. And it's usually just walking around because we're doing that windshield non-direct eye contact talking.
Randi:
And I think it's important to know when you say that she's asking you and you're hearing her. I think a lot of the time we tell our kids. Not right now. Later. I'm busy. I'm overwhelmed. I'm stressed. And they learn not to come to
Jess:
us then. And they also learn that that's a really crappy coping skill because that's what they do. I'm stressed right now. And all they're doing is mimicking what you've shown
Randi:
them. They're not really getting to the root of why they're stressed or why it's like this blanket. So hear your kids say, Hey, I want to go do this or I need this. Look for the ways that they are reaching out to you. It might not sound like that in a certain way. It might be like, Hey, can you watch me play Minecraft? Hey, can you drive my friends and me to the movies? Hey, can you? These are opportunities that you can take to help these behaviors, to help them build coping skills, and to build that relationship with your teen so that it's not so explosive.
Jess:
Yeah, mine is that we're hosting her friends again; she wants, I don't know, five or six of her friends to come over, which is great. And they just take over our living room and dining room areas and play loud games. And she's like, Can you do that? Do you mind providing sandwiches? I was like, sure. That's fine. We'll be around. We'll give you some space. We're still within earshot.
Randi:
And though it might inconvenience you at certain times or be stressful at certain times, what is the alternative? If you kept saying no, no, no, like, where are they going to go and do these things? Where are they going to look for other ways to entertain themselves? I think of these things. So I've always been like, yeah, sure. Like, all your friends can come over. Your friends can stay here. They can eat our food. They can go through. I will buy all the snacks because I would rather that than the alternate
Jess:
At least I can pay attention to what's going on, and I know the friends, so I can be like, Oh, okay. And then you meet the parents at this stage. Mine don't drive yet. But let's talk about what you were leading to: what if they're experimenting with drugs or alcohol, and it's really hard because we have so many different states with so many laws? Obviously, where we are, we're like the last three to not be having, oh
Randi:
My gosh, we live in the backwoods anyway.
Jess:
Yeah. We're like the last; by the end of this year, there's going to be like three states that don't have some form of CBD, marijuana, usage, recreation, or medical, and it's us. It's us. Yeah. We're here. A lot of this stuff is legal. And I've always said, Hey, are you 18? Are you 21? Whatever your law is, if, at 18, you can smoke pot, that's great. At 18, you're legal at 21. If you can drink, then you're legal. But let's talk about the household rules.
Randi:
right? And also, what are the risks? To not only your physical health, but your mental
Jess:
health. Yes, and your brain. Yeah. The growth, the development.
Randi:
So being supportive and holding up your rules and boundaries, but also while being non-judgmental—I can't say that word, non-judgmental. Woo! Non judgemental. Today, my love.
Jess:
real quick, I want to go back to say, what are you showing them as your example? If you're a smoker, your child is more likely to smoke. If you're a drinker and they've grown up around alcohol and it's been normalized, they're more likely to drink. And so, what are you showing them? Some kids grow up and they're like, They've seen you drink, and they're like, I'm never drinking. You're like, okay, cool. That's great. And some kids just drink their parents alcohol and water down the vodka. Yeah, whatever. We're not pointing fingers; you have to look at yourselves and what example you've also been showing them, making sure it's not the pot calling the kettle black.
Randi:
Is that? Can you say that? Huh. Yeah. Because if you are showing them something and then saying something else,. They're not going to have any respect for you, and you're like, Why don't they respect me? Well, if you're being a hypocrite, I mean nobody's going to listen to you. Would you listen to yourself?
Jess:
Oh, yeah. We would talk sh*t in a heartbeat. Exactly. You are also talking about how we support our children's mental health right now. This is so challenging for us, but it's not about us. This is about them. So how do we support
Randi:
Creating a safe space for them. Ugh, safe
Jess:
space. It is your job as parents to create this safe
Randi:
space. And then give them creative outlets to express themselves, whatever that looks like. If that's gaming, art, or journaling,. time with you, whatever it is that they love, that's kind of like putting a spark in them, supporting that, and letting them know that my daughter doesn't want to take the traditional route of going to college right away. And I am a very academic person. So at first I was like, Oh, then I was like, No, this is not me. This is her, and I want to support her and where she's at. And a lot of other people who have no influence in our lives have decided to make comments about it.
Jess:
Opinions are like assholes. We all have them, and they all stink.
Randi:
Exactly. And I don't want that to deter her from doing something because I've always taught my kids that when you do something, you love it. That is finding true success. It's not a paper. It's not a degree. It's not making sure your mental health is good and
Jess:
making sure you can take care of yourself. You got to be honest; you got to take care of
Randi:
yourself, pay your rent. Yeah. And still, there are still financial things that you need to do, but you can find success. With things that you love as well, it doesn't have to be the traditional route
Jess:
And that's why in our house we did it with our oldest and we still say with our youngest, you know? There are three things you can do to get a trade that sometimes pay more than a college degree, right? You can go to college You can go into the military You can get a job right away. Our thing is, we don't need a roommate. We're good. But for us, if you want to live at home, you have to do one of the three things. You can go trade. You can go to college. You can go into the military. Our oldest chose the military route. That's great. Not what we were expecting. And now he's ready to come back. He's getting out. He's done it. So guess what? Now he can go to college, and the military pays for it. Fantastic. Yeah. Awesome. I know. We're like, all right, good job. And you can come back, live at home, and go to college. We're okay with that. Some parents are like, You're 18, you're out, but it's so hard out there.
Randi:
It is. It's like the world as it is, but also financially. I know I used to live in a very expensive state where we used to live and grow up, and a lot of people I know still live with their parents, family, and friends because it's really expensive.
Jess:
And now their parents are living with them, because it's really
Randi:
expensive. Or I have friends that have never; they make really damn good money, but they still can't afford to buy a house. Mm mm. And that's okay. And, and that's okay. Things don't have to look the way we picture them. Cookie cutter cutouts can come in various forms, and understanding and having empathy for them really helps our kids. Now, I know this is very hard, but a lot of times we feel like our kids are pulling away and distancing themselves from not only us but their own friends and their own family. And is that normal? Yeah.
Jess:
That is so normal for them to just want this independence, and they're also terrified. As parents, we joke that your 13-year-old is going to go hide up in their room. Yeah, they do. They go hide up in the room. They would come down if it weren't for food, right? We may not see them sometimes. I think that's a normal thing at this age, too, is that they're starting to withdraw a little bit and hunker in their corner kind of thing. And
Randi:
I think what we talked about a little bit earlier is creating that distance as a protective barrier to it. Mm hmm. Losing maybe what they know and their comfort zone and trying to prepare themselves, like putting up their
Jess:
walls. And they just need to find a balance, and we have to find the balance between their need for independence and really maintaining family rules and bonds. You still live here. You still have to unload the dishes. I'm sorry. That's
Randi:
just part of the rules. that leads into what really does. Autonomy have to do with a teen and young adult's development.
Jess:
These are life skills. My oldest used to get so mad because his mom would always be like, These are life skills. You have to learn how to do this stuff, Cause you gotta learn how to pump your own gas. You have to learn all these different things, these are the things that we want them to be able to make decisions and be responsible and rely on themselves for things.
Randi:
Let's go back a little bit. Let's define what autonomy is, because I feel like that's one of those words that gets thrown around, but people might not understand specifically what it is, and it means the right to govern yourself. Like your body, your decisions, your mind, and owning that. So this is giving your teens the right to self govern it's
Jess:
like when they were little and they're like put their hands on their hips and say, you can't tell me what to do. You remember that?
Randi:
Well, I used to say, yes, I can. Yes, I can.
Jess:
Watch me. Some of the things I'll say with the oldest is that if you are not relying on us financially. You're not living in our house. We're not paying for your cell phone. We're not paying for college or your car insurance. You have a hundred percent control over what you do. Yeah. I'm not saying that because we pay, we can control you. Yeah.
Randi:
It's not pay to play.
Jess:
Yeah. No, it's not that. But if you're going to live in our house.
Randi:
There's boundaries. There are
Jess:
responsibilities. There are responsibilities and rules and boundaries, right? As an adult, if you're not going to come home, can you let us know so we're not worried about you being in a ditch? I don't need to
Randi:
know what you're doing. I just had a friend really, she was struggling with that because she was like, I just want her to tell me that she's safe. I don't care like about anything else. I just want her to be like, I am here and that's okay.
Jess:
We just told him, be a good roommate. This is what you do with when you have roommates in your twenties, Hey, I'm going out and not coming back. Cool. Thanks. So they don't go, Hey, I haven't seen her in four days. What happened? Should I call somebody? This is just being a good roommate as they get older. and that's what you want them to do, and learn how to balance a checkbook or at least
Randi:
their account. And that's, that comes with these skills that we need to teach them about being prepared. So like age appropriate responsibilities and important decision making. Like, how do I balance a checkbook? Like, how do I pay a Attention to my account balance, like how do I divide a dinner with friends or something like that? These things that we don't think about. Well, that's
Jess:
a hard one, even as adults, right? They even
Randi:
have apps for that, like how to split like apps and like vacations and things like that. Because This is something that people have struggled
Jess:
with. It is a struggle because everybody handles money differently.
Randi:
And like how to talk to their teachers or their professors or at their job, like how to handle certain situations. These are important life skills that a lot of us had to learn or still haven't learned. And they should teach in high school, but they don't and budgeting, things like that, that Nobody ever sat down and did that with me and so I struggled with budgeting and finances until I was much older. You struggle because you're ADHD. Well, yeah, that's, that's true. That's what that is. But yeah, but still, I didn't have any skills to back up my brain that was all buy this,
Jess:
but with, with that, I like, one of the points you just made was that. Don't wait until you're the second semester of senior year to all of a sudden throw all of these things onto your child. Let's do all these life hacks right now. Yeah. Yeah. That's not going to work. We started in eighth grade, this was eighth grade this year. I said, you need to every year at the beginning of the year, I've sent an email saying, this is my child. My child is ADHD. These are her, what she needs, what she excels at. These are the accommodations per her 504. Let me know if you have any questions. Well, this year I said, you're eighth grade, now you need to send it.
Randi:
Wait, what? Or have that conversation with your teachers. I
Jess:
wanted an email and a conversation. So we sat down and she sent it. Why do I have to do this? I said, because in four or five years you'll be in college and you're going to have to learn to advocate for yourself. I can't. be your mommy on your college campus. Exactly.
Randi:
Or at your job or whatever happens, you have to
Jess:
learn. I can't tell your boss he's a jerk. And that this, I said, you have to learn to do this. And so start earlier and that's empowerment. Yeah. Start earlier. So you're not dumping all of this senior year going, well, you're going to be 18 in three months. What are you going to do? Yeah.
Randi:
And adding more fuel to the fire and their anxiety that's just going to make it
Jess:
worse. Speaking of anxiety. If you're worried about their behavior, what do you do? I know we talked about it a little bit before, but Randy, what do you do when you're worried about your daughter's anxiety
Randi:
or you're worried about I trust my intuition about it. And then I reach out to people that can support me through this. And that's usually a doctor, therapist. Counselor, a school counselor, a teacher, or a psychiatrist that can help guide me to the right things that she needs that I might not be able to give
Jess:
her. Yeah, or maybe you just need to get your own Xanax and you can not have the anxiety that she's bringing up. Exactly. I'm kidding, guys. I'm kidding. Kind
Randi:
of. So with all these things, the most important thing is keep that communication open, have active and empathetic listening, and really validate how their feelings. We all. Need to have our feelings validated. That doesn't change whether you're five or you're 55 or you're 105, and when it comes down to it, our jobs as a parent or caregiver is to show support and to love unconditionally, unconditionally, means. without conditions. Yeah. You don't want to gaslight. You don't want to be a narcissist. You don't want to say, I always tell my daughter sometimes I don't like you, but I love you.
Jess:
And I would rather her say, I don't like your behavior right now, but I love you no matter. And I love you no matter what. And I love you because remember your kids right now are scared and terrified. They have been working so hard, so hard to get to this point, and oh my gosh, it's so much to do still. And then there's these expectations, and they're not, like you said, your daughter's not doing the traditional route. She could be comparing herself to other kids well, they're going to college, and I don't want
Randi:
to. Exactly. That's another thing, is they have their own peer. Pressure. Pressure from this their friends are doing certain things, or so and so's going to Ivy League, or so and so's not, or so and so's going to trade school, or so and so is whatever, and comparing am I doing the right thing, am I doing the wrong thing, am I, do I want to do this, do I want, and let's be honest, our minds change all the time, so maybe that path you started on isn't the path you want to take the day of graduation and maybe they're fearful to tell you, hey, I decided I don't want to do that.
Jess:
I'm telling you, I am telling you ours, he was going to go to a four year college. He was going to do this. And then all of a sudden he said, I'm going to go in the military. And we were like, wait, what? You don't like our rules?
Randi:
What just happened?
Jess:
You don't like our rules, but you want to go to the military. Okay. And then the next thing you know, we had a Marine person showing up in our driveway and he calls me. He's like, Jess. Jess, the Marine was in my driveway, in the driveway when I got home today. And, and I was like, the recruiter? What? I was like, you're not even 18 yet. He was like, can you help? I was like, yeah, and we talked about it, and I said, how can I support you? He was like, I'm not ready, I, I, I don't need him showing up at my house. So I called him up, and I was like, dude. Too much. He's not 18 yet. Too much. Yeah. Don't show up at my driveway. If we want you, we will reach out to you. Which I get it. They're recruiters. Yeah. But he was like, that freaked him out. I was like, yeah, it wasn't the thought. We thought you were going to go that path, but hey.
Randi:
And so just being able to pivot. with what they decide and go with. I changed my mind 500 times about what I'm going to eat for the afternoon. So it's let alone a life what can feel like a life altering decision. And did I take the path? I was one of those people that planned out every aspect of my life. And I had this five year, 10 year, 15 year plan. Didn't any of that happen? I don't know. F no.
Jess:
I know. If anybody told me that I would be sitting here doing a podcast in Idaho, I would have been like, Oh,
Randi:
what? I would have thought I would be a psychotherapist. I would have probably well, I wanted to be an art therapist. So it's not like that far off. But I ended up having to take my mom got ill. And I ended up having to take a huge gap between college. And I didn't get where I wanted to go until probably 10 years later, and I was so hard on myself. And that's the thing, you have to understand, our kids are probably having this inner dialogue in their mind, and they're probably beating themselves up over things, so we don't need to probably beat them up too about it, no, just
Jess:
hug them and tell them you love them. And
Randi:
celebrate their achievements, whether they're small or big just the little things too, to let them know that you're not just harping on things that are like negative, but find the positive in that, and really cherish those things that make them unique.
Jess:
find other things to talk to them about. Besides, did you take out the trash? Did you do the dishes? How's your homework? Yeah, Find something else to have conversations. Pull them out of their room or go join them in
Randi:
their room. Mm hmm. Yeah, sometimes I'll just go and I'll sit on my daughter's bed and she's what are you doing? And I'm like They get so weirded out. And I'm like, I'm here for but they can come in our room all the time and just hang out. She's Steal our makeup? She comes in my room every night and we have these full conversations and her dad is like, what is happening right now? And why is she? And I'm like, I never dissuade that because I love it. I cherish that time and it helps this period. When we're struggling and frustrated as a parent or as a caregiver I just am like, okay I look forward to that
Jess:
stuff. I think my daughter gets weirded out too when I go and lay in her bed. She's got all these squish mellows all over and it's so comfortable and she's what are you
Randi:
doing? Yeah. Why are you laying on my bed? Why are you touching my stuff? I'm like, I just want to
Jess:
be here. Because it's soft and it's great. And I said it's this is really fun. Yeah. Cause
Randi:
your room's super cute. And mine doesn't have a bunch of cute stuffed animals and things all over the place. No, I'm an adult. Yeah. Boring.
Jess:
Remember that when your teen is navigating this last semester of high school and all of these challenges that they are throwing at you, this is a very natural process.
Randi:
It's normal. We're normalizing it. It is
Jess:
normal. They are not. Trying to be a-holes, they really are. Just having all of these, like Randy said, these inner dialogues. All
Randi:
these feelings. Feelings and hormones and stress. And I just wanna say, I hope that this normalized it for you because. When Jess talked to me about this, I took such a big sigh of relief and was able to step back and also give myself perspective about it and my teenager as well, and it helped as a whole just being able to talk. About that. I wasn't alone in this. And yes, even us as therapists, we still struggle with that on the daily.
Jess:
you're not alone. This is a very normal process and it's going to kick up some anxiety in the house. Even the dogs are probably acting out at this point, right? This is just normal guys. You get through this. You
Randi:
will. And we hope this episode has helped you today.
