16: 4 Writing Practices for Nonprofit Success (Clay Hodges)

spk_0:   0:03
Welcome to your path to nonprofit leadership, the weekly podcast featuring the very best in productivity and professional development in the nonprofit sector. I'm your host. Patent McDowell. My goal is once again to make sure each episode gives you ideas an actual advice you can use on your journey along a nonprofit path. This episode will dive into a critical skill of writing and how you can use it in different ways to enhance your professional development. But before we get into those details a couple of reminders, be sure to subscribe to this podcast on your favorite hosting platform if you haven't already, and I hope you'll consider sharing this episode with someone else who was on the nonprofit path. Also, we have redesigned our website patent McDowell dot com, so you can get even. Maur of the resource is suggested in every episode, as well as direct links to the audio files in other ways to connect. I'm excited to introduce this episode with Clay Hodges, a talented communicator, writer and attorney who has utilized different writing rituals and routines that will get your wheels turning and hopefully inspire you to practise writing in ways that will sharpen your communication skills, but also motivate and monitor your productivity and professional development goals claimed. I discuss four distinct writing rituals for you to consider number one the effective use of journaling number two Writing is a means to retain and distill knowledge. Number three writing is a means for effective planning and gold setting, and finally number four riding as a means to produce content. No matter where you are along the nonprofit path writing is certainly gonna be critical as a component to your communications skill set and will directly impact your acceleration along the path without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with Clay Hodges play. Thank you for joining me on the path. Hey, patents could be here. I'm eager to ah, get into this conversation. You and I talked before about many of the aspects will discuss now the importance of communication, some of the rituals of writing that you have employed so successfully over the years. So thank you for applying your skills and experiences to the nonprofit audience that we're speaking with now. But before we get into that, the moment you tell us a little about your path, not the classic nonprofit path, but certainly an interesting one nonetheless.

spk_1:   2:52
Well, thank you, pet. And again, thank you for letting me be here. I like to tell people that I've had three careers in my life. I was waiter, a teacher and a lawyer, and I mentioned Law mentioned waiter because my hero in the law, Wade Smith, when he hired me at his firm about 20 years ago, said that he thought waiting tables was, ah, a perfect job to prepare yourself for a life of service and certainly a life of practicing law. So I always thought that was cool. And I think it is true that there is some value to what I did in my my earliest career, but absolutely. And after the

spk_0:   3:33
border nonprofits to I would say not to interrupt you, Clay. But I would say the kind of personal relationships you have toe ah, deploy in a very short time. Waiting on someone is relevant across the board.

spk_1:   3:46
Yeah, I think that's right. Looking back on it, it felt, you know at the time it might have felt like a, you know, just a labor type job. But I think looking back, it would provided a lot of, ah insight into human nature and and what people need and how you needed or interact with. Um, So anyway, from there I was a teacher at taught English for several years at the community college level and, um, always had an interest in law. So I went to law school at UNC Chapel Hill in the nineties, and I've been practicing law for almost 20 years. Now. I'm a I'm a civil litigator with a new emphasis on product liability law, which mainly I focus on, uh, defective medical devices and problem medications. So if someone's hurt from a device that may not have been clinically tested well enough and I heard a bunch of people, then I might step in and and represent these individuals. So that's what I've been doing lately.

spk_0:   4:49
Ah, again, I I like the correlation between the complexity of your world and the ways you have had to research, learn and then communicate is very similar to a lot of the nonprofit organizations with which we work. There's complexity in their service. They're trying to explain, and often in layman's terms, what they do so that people will support them and it strikes me. That's exactly what you have done and done successfully over the years. Um, we'll talk about. In fact, I know you and I have discussed before four types of writing skills and the way I have labeled this episode is for nonprofit professionals, therefore distinct kind of writing skills and practices they need to think about and get better. And I think you've got evidence of all four of them, and so we'll talk about it. But I guess without getting too obvious communication and effective communication particularly written is, I guess, critical to your professional success.

spk_1:   5:52
Oh, yes, absolutely. And I didn't realize it how vital writing wasin the legal profession until I was well into my practice. I mean, everybody talks about you have to write in the law, and I knew that I'd always had a background in writing, but here I am, almost 20 years into it. I'm beginning to think that writing well is the single best, uh, skills, said a lawyer can have really any professional grinding in your nonprofit space. But, you know, I went to law school thinking that I needed to be the best public speaker I could possibly be, and there's certainly a lot of that and what I do, and it's important in what I do. But increasingly, I think writing skills can be even more important to you. Ah, good legal practice. For example, In federal court, a federal judge will often review emotion on the briefs that the lawyers submit and won't even have an oral argument. You know that hearing where you show up and you make that argument in a public setting or in the courtroom setting so often you win or lose emotion in federal court and even sometimes in state court. Ah, on the briefs, as they say, and so

spk_0:   7:08
makes perfect sense. We in nonprofit clay. Often you may not get the chance to articulate your case verbally to a donor or potential partner. And so if you're messaging through written format, doesn't you know make sense? You're never gonna have a chance to talk about it?

spk_1:   7:26
Yeah, well, to that point, I think we live in a world now. That is just where there's an avalanche of content and riding on the Internet and our newspapers, our phones everywhere. So I think the importance of good writing has gotten more intense because, you know, there's a there's a bunch of bad stuff out there. So if you write a good one page letter to your donors, um, or I don't know what you guys do, but it's critically important that you get your argument out quickly, clearly and in a comfortable way. So a donor would see it and go, Yeah, like what they're doing.

spk_0:   8:06
Absolutely. We talk about speaking to their heart and their head, and I think effective communications written in particular, appeals to both, I guess, as you have evaluated your skill set. Ah, I seem to recall you had a natural enthusiasm for writing early on. Or was it something, though, that you consciously developed and worked on? Or did you kind of feel like it was something you were built to do from your earliest writing days?

spk_1:   8:35
Us. That's a good question. Patent. I would say that I always I've always written, and I don't really know why. I guess I enjoyed it and I was drawn to it. I did not always right well, and I still don't always right Well, it's it's a very difficult task, but I think the desire was always with me, so I would say one part. I was trying to it, but three parts. It's been practicing effort. You know, I'm a better writer right now than I was 10 years ago in 20 years ago. But, um, I still have a long way to go. So that's kind of a lifelong project that I'm on you. You just want to get better at it. But ah, yeah, I've got I've got writing From the time I was in second and third and fourth grade and I've been writing ever since.

spk_0:   9:28
Leaving your your childhood experiences have ah, you've built upon. I'm fascinated by in particular In recent years, you've had a number of kind of writing rituals and I would say the discipline that we all should consider because you're not gonna get better view in practice. That goes without saying. And I think many of us, though, as you mentioned, the technology allows us to do very quick shorthand communications, whether it's texting or e mails and so forth through social media. But this skill Ah, the art and the science of good writing remains critical. And we'll talk about it. I've looked it in our kind of four areas, the first of which I guess writing as a form of self care. And you have been a big advocate of journaling. Tell about your journaling ritual, which I know is not necessarily formal writing experience. But I still think has value. And perhaps you can share how it has been valuable for you.

spk_1:   10:32
Oh, yeah? Well, uh, I've been doing it, Oma. Not all my life, but I think I started keeping a journal in kind of a dedicated way when I was 17 and I wrote throughout college. And then I was in Europe for a year, traveling and working, and I kept a journal. Then, um, I kept a journal through law school. Can I go ahead?

spk_0:   10:55
Was a daily ritual. Talk about, you know, what was the frequency of that?

spk_1:   10:58
Well, it started out in college, I think, attempting to be daily, and it probably ended up being 45 times a week back in those days. It was, you know, longhand. Writing into notebooks. I still have those notebooks. Was about 27 of them. Um, and they're still there, just kind of sitting there, but, you know, over the years I wrote in law school when I could be kind of capture that experience. And then I stopped for a year, started having Children getting started my law practice. I let it gol, and it was a mistake because I went back to it about 12 years ago, and I've kept it ever since. This time on a word processor, you know, on a computer, keeping a word document, and it's hundreds and hundreds of pages. And now you know it doesn't have any value, probably in the whole world, except to me. But it's really remarkable how you can go back and see where you were in your practice. See where you were in your confidence level with, you know, this court case or this client where you were with your personal life and then the watch it evolved. And not only that one thing I'll say in terms of writing and improving. Sometimes I read those notebooks from college and the the writing from the first note books and the writing from the 27th Notebook. It's remarkably different to different people, and not that it's great at the 27th but it's much improved and um, you know, the journal writing can only help my writing legal memoranda, writing complaints, writing documents for law letters to clients. And that and that translates not just in law but in your field and whatever anybody's doing, because I really think there's not enough of an emphasis on getting your thoughts down on paper and a clear, concise way.

spk_0:   12:52
Absolutely so you develop. It is apparent technical proficiency as you have gone across this journaling episode, but it sounds like is there there's a therapeutic element. Is that fair to say in terms of the You know, if someone says, Well, why you doing this, Clay? It's not just the technical aspects I'm guessing.

spk_1:   13:12
Yeah, of course, I I think that journal is hugely therapeutic because for one thing, you can work out problems If you're If you're hung up on a client or complex legal issue or or a problem relationship, you can ride it out. You can try to sort it out. Uh, you often gleaning insight that you didn't know you had if you spend too, you know, she spent two pages writing about something, and then you get to the end of it and it's, um you know, you've got it figured out. I love the story from Abraham Lincoln, where he had a desk drawer in his office full of letters that he didn't send and and I may be everybody's heard this story, but, you know, he'd get frustrated with the situation. Write a long letter is feelings to a senator to congressman, and then he put in the put in the desk. He said, Tomorrow, Elson. If I still feel like any, any often never did, because sometimes it's just a matter of working through your process work because often you don't need to send the letter. You just need to work out your thoughts on it. And I think I do the same thing

spk_0:   14:20
a great point. Too often. We probably are guilty of sending an e mail before we too quickly and it Lincoln's advice would be you could you could draft the email, but don't send it right.

spk_1:   14:34
And Lincoln might have been in trouble in the modern age because he didn't have access to email, but he probably would have pressed him because I've done it. But I agree with you, really, Do I talk to my partners about this because we often deal with difficult professionals. You know, opposing counsel. You may not be the the nicest folks in the world sometimes, and and our partners will be talking about it and will say, Look, write email and don't necessarily them. Minimize it and then at the end of the day or the more morning, pull it up. If you still like every word of it, send it and almost invariably, you never liked. And Jack certainly not enough to send it. Do your journal. Do

spk_0:   15:16
you kind of have built in prompts or you literally just go kind of stream of consciousness as you right?

spk_1:   15:25
That's a That's a good question. Usually, I try to write up now. I tried to write on the weekends. I write not five times a week, but maybe once a week and I sit down and usually I don't have a prom, but but it's good if I do, it's better. If I do like if I have an idea like I want to write about that, then when I get to the computer, I can really, you know, start writing. But I find even without a prompt, um there was a writer up admired, You said All you have to do to write is sit in front of the typewriter setting from the computer and just sit and your writing, and it doesn't mean you're physically writing. You might just be sitting there getting your thoughts together. But if you dedicate the time and kind of protect that time and sit in front of a computer, eventually you will start writing. It's just it happens every time. So even without a prompt, I just sit there for 5 10 minutes and something happens. And, you know, as I said, it's It's not always valuable stuff, but it gets me sometimes The first paragraph I write, I just erase. And then the second paragraph is where the the action really stores. But you know, either way, I think you just have to dedicate time to it. Like I guess his point was, if you went to Barnes and Noble and opened your computer and satin from the computer for an hour and 1/2 and didn't write a word, he would say you were writing. Um and I think, and I think that's key to know what that discipline looks like and that's that's it because it's almost impossible not to start writing. But even if you did, you probably came up with some ideas that the next time you will really start cranking out

spk_0:   17:09
You nailed it. And I I do think many of the rituals that you explaining and we'll explain are purely about the discipline and and not being obsessed with the final product. As you said, you're not literally in many cases in a journal setting, trying to produce something for anybody else other than yourself have toyed with a couple of rituals that ah, you've heard and read others doing this too, you know, affirmations trying to be intentional. I guess this falls in the morning therapy routine of writing and just simply saying things you're grateful for or positive affirmations around your goals. Um, I've had a kind of weekly ritual, perhaps someone here, but my prompt is simply all right. What were the highs and lows of last week and one of the kind of things I'm anticipating in the week ahead, and that usually gets me off and running. If I go back through my calendar, it allows me to reflect on things. People I met with issues I was dealing with. And, um, you know, for me, that's been a helpful way and doesn't take much to get it started.

spk_1:   18:17
That's that's a great point. Yeah, I like that idea. I will say that. That's similar to that. You asked me, um, couple of days ago. You know, some of my mud tools to two get my head organized and things like that. Not thinking about what you just mentioned. And I I wanted to tell you that one thing I do. And it's very some of what you just said that I keep lists of almost everything. Uh, for example, um, I keep a list of all the exercise I've ever done. Um, I can tell you that may 9th 2007 I started a running program while every run I've ever had since then, you know, granted, Now I'm officially a new bernard, it to anybody listening to this. But I'm telling you that the writing it down does a couple of things. It obviously captures something that's that I've done that I've accomplished, like, a four mile run or working out some way. But I think it's also it generates future activity because I don't want to have that document empty for November or even yesterday. So you know what? You want to come to drive it. You want that? And that exercise document is now 94 pages long, and I know this sounds ridiculous. But even though it's all historical document, I think it's getting much for me to project into the future because you know, it's driven me to keep running, to keep exercising and the same I would say just a second point of lists, and this is another nerdy thing I do. But, um, I keep a list of all the hand written notes that I've set, and this is this is a vital function to me because for woman, you know I don't write a lot of him, but I think they're still vital. In this age of email and text and computer driven writing. I think people love to get a hand written note. I think it's a it's a pretty unique thing and having the list, I can go back and see who have approached and when what I was talking about, what what I was moved to write a hand written note about, and I think it has a professional value to me to have the list. Um, and again, it's ah, you know, if if if the list gets weak for 2019 I might step up my hand written notes, uh, through the end of the year. So I think that's those are two ways, and I keep a list of all kinds of stuff that I won't get into. But there's there's a two areas

spk_0:   20:53
I love that and you address something I do want to talk about, just kind of productivity is You know, this podcast focuses on professional development and productivity for the nonprofit community, and I'm fascinated by that kind of. So that is a stand alone list of those kind of handwritten notes. Is that? Oh, yeah. Kinda chart it that way.

spk_1:   21:14
Yeah, not not to get thio granular, and but yeah, I just write down the date and who was, too, and what it was for whether, like a fellow, you're simply a case for client referral. Um, even if some personal happened, like someone lost a loved one or there's a birthday. Ah, whatever it is. Um, but it allows me to to know what you know, what I've done and who have reached out to you. And then I can see who had neglect. Like if I've got a group of individuals who send me work and I haven't reached out to them in over six months or a year, then the list tells me. And yes, I have a word document and it says handwritten notes. That's fantastic. It's simple as that

spk_0:   22:02
relationship management tool, though, and and again in our nonprofit world, it is all about relationships, as it isn't yours, obviously as well. But I am fascinated by that. And it reminds me of a phrase. One of my former bosses said that you know what gets measured gets done, and it seems to me that your exercise routine you don't wanna break the street, right, you

spk_1:   22:25
get a track

spk_0:   22:26
of it. So you're not gonna break the streak, which keeps you healthier. Um, and it seems to me whatever you measure, whether it's the food you're consuming or the weight you get on the scales each morning and watch you start tracking it, it tends to get better. Um, two other ideas class have picked up on in this kind of wrapping up the writing for self care category. But I keep track of books read and I know your ah ah, prolific reader as well. We'll talk about maybe ways to translate that knowledge, but that kind of motivates me, you know, keeping track. How many books I'm reading keeps me on a path to read. Maur James, all teacher, has an interesting kind of prompt. He is an advocate for you need to every day right down 10 ideas, no matter how crazy they are. But it's a CZ. He describes its its exercise for the brain, and so it could be related to your personal life, your business or completely random. But I have started doing that not on a daily basis, but it is interesting that wild ideas come in your head and it's like, all right, but my eyes will write it down because who knows, you know, a year from now I may look back at that and find out there was, you know, a kernel of truth to

spk_1:   23:42
it. That that's that's interesting. Let me ask you. So what do you do with that list? So you have your 10 from Monday and you have your 10 from Sunday. Do you go back to him? Do you discipline yourself to say, once a week, I've got to redeem all. Tell me how you get back to it and maybe met youself Not not on

spk_0:   24:01
a weekly review, but I've started doing a quarterly review and that because I these my journalists kind of a mixture of these weekly general reviews I've described in these pages of 10 ideas, but I'll go back every three months and just flipped through him and then kind of highlight one's one. I'll see patterns off consistency like, Wow, that's There's a variation of that idea coming through, uh, five or six times, and so it it tends to lead to our Maybe I need to kind of set a goal on that Oh, our flesh it out even further. But in other cases, it's back to the therapeutic value that that is totally random. It's not a good idea, but it was. It allowed me to meet the threshold of forcing myself to come up with 10 creative ideas, and so that's how I try to put it, to use

spk_1:   24:56
Wow, it's it's It's That's great. I have not done that yet, But I like the idea. And you know this. The truth is, out of the 100 over 10 days, you might have one. That's pretty good.

spk_0:   25:09
Exactly is exactly his point.

spk_1:   25:12
And the other 99 have value themselves, even even as a intellectual exercise. Or, you know, just showing you where you are in a particular place in time, what you're thinking about, what you're what your priorities might be. But you never know. You're gonna come up with something good if you keep that up.

spk_0:   25:29
That's exactly my theory. And so I'm glad we can both share that with our listeners is away because again, he you just have a lot of stuff in your head. And I think you and I both are advocates for this kind of journaling or writing. There's too many people I think have stuff bouncing in their heads and and they're not doing anything with it accepts kind of stressing themselves. So the journal allows you to get stuff out of your head and onto a page and for the good ideas, not the stressful ones, but the good ideas who knows you reflect on it a month or a year later and it it proved valuable.

spk_1:   26:04
But let's go to the

spk_0:   26:06
next section, Clay. We've talked about, you know, the therapeutic value and self help of writing. But the second area I think I wanna explore is using writing to help you distill and acquire knowledge. You and I both are avid readers. Um, I've started doing kind of book reports and not in the, you know, Harken back to high school in the pain of that kind of report. But I just charge myself now with all right, when I just right when I finish a book. What a three takeaways. From what? I just read it and I tried to get him into my journal. Um, but I wonder in your world, obviously, there's a great deal of research. It sounds like your previous conversations that it may not be a book report, so to speak. But you'll run across an article or just some form of content that strikes you is Hey, I need to capture this for later.

spk_1:   27:04
Oh, yeah, I'm always looking for that because in my in my product liability practice, I've got a website that all right, blogged posting. I have for, Ah, four and 1/2 years now, and I've got 226 again on the numbers cause I keep lists, right? Yeah. I read a lot. A long piece of journalism on artificial hip failure in The New York Times. And then I see another piece in the post and I start to read about it, and I start to think about what's going on and often write my own block post around, You know that subject and what's the latest science behind it. So for me, it's got a professional, Um uh, advantage. And so I'm always doing that with with what I find in my practice area, I don't write the, you know, a page or two summary of the books I read, you know? Ah, former English teacher. So 80% of what I read for pleasure is typically novels fiction. And although I think it would be very helpful and I might actually start doing it, um, when I finish a novel, I just kind of sit there and look out the window for five minutes and then that I move on, I guess right. But I think it's a great idea because so much is lost. Um, if you don't write it down, in fact, I think that's the theme of this whole podcast. Maybe that that you know so much of your life is lost whether you read whether you have some activity, some big event if you're not writing it down, if you're not keeping lists, s o much of it goes straight out the window.

spk_0:   28:40
Exactly right on glyph moves too fast. And it's both, of course, for personal and professional reasons. I think we both are advocating for this and these practices. Um, you referenced earlier the importance of legal briefs, and I have found similar practice in nonprofit, particularly board members who like judges that you interact with Clay. They don't have time nor the interest to read extended material. Um, I had a board chair at Queen's University when I worked there. Hugh McCall, famously of Bank of America. Ah, founder uh, history. But he was famous for saying that, you know, you can't tell me and explain to me this issue in less than one page. I'm not gonna read it. And so I often have used that advice, even though it was not really given as advice, it was more a warning. Um, you need to be able to distill often complex issues into a single page format, but I'm sure your legal briefs are not single pages. But would you agree that there's a similar principle that you've gotta explain yourself in an effective and relatively distinct way?

spk_1:   29:53
Oh, yeah, absolutely. No. You know, there are page limits to briefs in state and federal courts, and, um, and while that could be something like 35 pages or something, that sounds kind of enormous. I've had certain judges at least one judge that says, I don't want any brief longer than 10 pages, which, for ah, you know, a legal issue that might have several subparts. It's really hard to do, but I think your point's well taken. I'm reminded of that, you know, over shared story from Samuel Taylor Coleridge, where he writes a letter to his friend. He says, I'm sorry. This letter is so long. If I had more time, it would have been shorter. Um, yeah, and I'm gonna brevity. Yes. So I think he's onto something and you know, absolutely. Thank you. Every 15 page paper can be a seven page paper. Um, right. And it's important that you you've got the eye to be able to edit yourself and cut out this stuff because we often fall in love with our riding in its some form of self loving where we where we think. Oh, it's all great. Well, no, it's not all critically important. What's the essential thing? And I guess in your practice and your profession, my goodness, people who are asked to participate financially in a in a non profit I mean, you probably have the very small amount of attention that you have to capture in a short amount of time. At least I have a judge who, you know, is there to listen to me, even if I say things that are windy and overly long. But for you guys, you have to be, you know, laser precise and quick, or you're just gonna lose their attention.

spk_0:   31:41
You're exactly right, and there are a lot of good causes out there. As much as we're passionate about the one for which we work or volunteer, the fact is that people are are being inundated with good causes all over the place. And if we don't get to the point, um, relatively quickly, we're gonna lose him. And so that's what my advice, too, folks in the nonprofit space is you need to discipline yourself to be ableto what I call just kind of memo discipline. Literally, the one pager concept to me, is a great practice. Now, if someone wants to expand or ask you to expand, then that's great. But you should be able to tell the basic story within one page whether that be a financial appeal or a recruitment letter, to ask someone to join your board or anything like that. And that's why I'm glad you and I are, of course, on the same page. There's a broad array of knowledge we're getting bombed with. Can we distill it, whether it be a book, an article, a concept, Um, and I think writing is the way to do it.

spk_1:   32:47
Yeah, I agree in any form of communication, but certainly what we're talking about today is writing, and I think that's that's extremely valuable in this. This avalanche of content, the better writers and the better thinkers in the and the ones you can express themselves concisely, Um, they carry the day. I mean, I'll get onto a website saloon news, media outlet. And if the opening paragraph is just too windy and not getting to it, I'll either click out of the whole article, which means I've stopped being interested in what I was initially interested in. Or, you know, I'll try toe Scroll down to get to what he's really talking about her she's really talking about. And so you know, you can't even waste that opening sentence. You've got to get right to it.

spk_0:   33:33
Great point. And your board members, your donors, anyone in the nonprofit space are exactly like what I think you just described. If you don't get to the point, you're gonna lose him. Um, let's move to the third face Clay in this little overlap a bit and some of the writing that we've already described. But we've talked about you and I the third phase of writing skill or ritual perhaps, is, you know, articulating your goals, and I read somewhere that very few people write down their goals at all on and like you and I talked about putting some of our practices and writing as a means to continue. Um, do you have what are your writing practices as it relates to gold setting or, um, I don't know. If you're speaking of is we approach it the time of this recording the end of 2019. Do you use writing for any of your kind of either goal review or gold setting going forward?

spk_1:   34:33
I will say that I I don't do that enough in an intentional way. So I can, you know, really check my progress and tea and to know what I want to do the next six months of the next year. But I think I've always had goals and I've articulated There's goes to myself Like when I first started the website, um, about product liability law. I wanted to do 75 block posts in the 1st 12 months, which equates to, you know, about one and 1/2 per week, which was which is hard to do and practiced law at the same time. Um and so so for me, I don't know if it's writing or at least just organization, but, um, you know, I've kept a list of every block post that I've written. I've kept a list of every call that I've gotten directly from the website where someone said, I read this article, uh, on this medication, and I'm going through that and s o that. That's, you know, many pages long now, um, so I think in keeping again, I think I'm a list guy. So in keeping a list of that kind of stuff, I'm seeing how the web sites working and what I want to do. You know, I did. I haven't maintained 75 per year, but the first year, I wanted to 75 now I try to do a lesser amount, but still keep a pretty good writing pace. Um, so I guess No. And so I have also have goals about, you know, clients that I might actually sign up and represent. Um, but yeah, I keep all All that is part of I don't know if you call that writing per se, but it's ah, it's kind of my organizational way.

spk_0:   36:20
Yeah. I think the way you capture progress or activity very much leads to gold setting. Obviously you have a baseline from which you can compare. Then you can see you. Are you tracking on the fitness activities? You did and all right, You know you want to maintain her. You accelerate that for the month ahead. You're writing your, uh, log activity and what? Not to me. That's perfect. And I would suggest just most people don't do that. There is a vague sense they want to get better, but they really don't apply any kind of formal routine that allows them both to track what they're doing. And then too get better.

spk_1:   36:59
I think I want I want to say that is exactly right. I think you have the best intentions. But if you don't set up a plan and then keep adjusting the plan and keep revisiting the plan and thinking about what I what I don't need to emphasize and what I do need to emphasize, then you're just kind of wishing for something exactly right. Uh, yeah,

spk_0:   37:20
it's never gonna move. And I think you you know, you you don't beat yourself up if you don't have a lot of activity to record in in any written format, but just write something down even if it's all right. I'm starting at zero. But it leads you to next month. I'm gonna write one block post. You know where I'm gonna complete one activity that moves me closer to whatever if it's a goal or just simply on a better path. To me, that's progress. And I've seen folks and have tried myself. Toe set up a routine beyond just the classic annual goal setting, which you and I both will see everybody around us. New Year's resolutions, eyes a bit cliche. But I think you know the majority of those kind of die die on the vine by February. But to me, if you are writing things down one, you've got greater potential for success. And I've tried to implement again, um, a frequency beyond just annual, because I just think an annual goal is something you're gonna put on the back burner for 10 months anyway. But if you put it into 90 day increments, since that's what I've tried to do is be intentional about a 90 day review quarterly and then have some sort of weekly ritual, as you and I have talked about, Um, it's not top of mind. It's not going to get done, but, um, it sounds like again. You've had rituals and routines That what for particularly when you were at a high volume block production that really kept you going?

spk_1:   38:58
Yeah, I think those goals were important. And and again, I hate to overemphasize my lists because they're not exactly what you're saying, but I think they're They're very much related. I would say that my exercise list kind of started this process and it led to the hand right ribbit note list. And it led to all the calls I'm getting, Uh, you know it It organized my law practice. And so I've got, you know, 19 lists, 25 list. I don't know how many I keep now there are active that our current and every one of them is important to me. And I get back to it and it tells me things. So for me, not quite what you're saying, But but that's one thing that I emphasize, And I would say to people Just keep a list of your exercising and trust me, it will. It will lead to other things. You'll start to want to build on that and then build on other things that you know, have any phone calls or you're making two donors. How many letters did you write? And again, I don't know. You're your industry, but

spk_0:   39:56
that's right on target.

spk_1:   39:57
But I suspect that you know, you need to keep a list and and and and not knowing that that's a past tense thing. But then you, you know, translate that into, ah, future thing. How many calls I make next week. What's my goals for that? And I just think it's important for everybody. No matter what they do,

spk_0:   40:17
it's It's a perfect example. And you've had several that lead our final section on, you know, ultimately getting things done, what we're talking about writing. But you're right lists about communication to donors or sending out appeals or proposals. Um, simply require you to take action and by journaling or listing or keeping track, I think absolutely leads to progress moving forward. And I guess I want to dive in in this kind of final section clay, the routine and ritual you had for that what you were producing a post and 1/2 each week. Talk about that routine was at a kind of an early morning effort. Er, how did you discipline yourself while maintaining a full time practice to write at that kind of

spk_1:   41:09
pace. Yeah, there's a great question that I will say that that I didn't have ah rigid plan that every Monday and every Thursday that I would write those two posts for the week or whatever. But I did always right in the morning because I'm my best writer in the morning. I'm a best thinker in the morning. I'm freshest then, and writing to me is the hardest thing. Here is just hard to do. It's hard to do well and you want to be at your best when you're doing it. So when I first started the website at, I wrote maybe eight or 10 before even launched the thing. So I had a head start and then, you know, I would be. You know, sometimes there were deadlines. I had to practice law for three straight days and couldn't return to it. But then I would say a Friday morning, I'd have some space and I would work on that next one, and maybe it was an article because I do keep up with, you know, the news articles on this area of product liability And so I'd see something. Yeah, I want to write about that. That seems like it's emerging as a problem emerging as an issue. And it might take me two weeks toe finally write something about it. But I would just pace myself and and really, it was almost like the run. If I hadn't run into her three days, I felt it in my bones. You know, I haven't written this week had been opposed. So it just becomes to me when I started that endeavor professionally, to write content for the benefit of a public, you know, I just didn't want to fail myself and failed them. I'm gonna do it. I want to do it right. I don't want him come back. And I haven't written something in two months. Um, so for me, I wanted I felt a compulsion to just when I had free time, I got something written. And then I'm noodling on it all day and really all night. If something comes on the news at 6 30 and maybe something leads me to another block post, you know, months down the road, um, is that that's that's how I would do it. And, um, like I said, I'm not pacing at 75 year anymore, cause that was intense. But I'm still doing quite a bit. And, you know, now, usually when I find something, I'm always got my antenna up for some new issue, like a big court case that resolved in it answered a few questions, and the jury awarded, Ah, compensation. I want I want the people who read my website didn't know about it. And so I write about it that way when I had that

spk_0:   43:40
you've had a conscious effort, frankly, to be a thought leader in your space, which I think is a natpe ihr ation, that any professional and for those of us in the nonprofit space there, topics that we all are interesting. But I don't think many of us have the kind of routine you did and do now to pay attention to what's in the news and turn that in the content. And so I think that's fantastic. You've given our listeners, you know, half dozen ideas. I hope they will. They will listen to the loud and clear message we both are saying You got to start writing right and I guess. Is there one piece of advice, Clay, you might say to someone's I am. No, I don't really believe in it. All right. But maybe I do. Now, what would you suggest to someone who is trying to become a better writer or make more of these practices? Riel?

spk_1:   44:31
Well, I I think for 95% of the people who don't write regularly, they they see it as most is. Almost everyone sees it as a burden is too difficult as a pain. So what? I would circle about what I said a few minutes ago where you know that that writer who said sit in front of the computer you're writing now, so don't put pressure on yourself. I do think everybody should, right. I do think that shouldn't prove they're riding if they want to be a good professional in any area, so they have to write. And so too, right? Just say to yourself to get started like my my list of exercise. My first listed item in 2007 I think I walked on the treadmill for 15 minutes. It was a very, very light exercise. All I could do. All right, But Nina, I'm running half marathons six months later, so it paid off faster. Pays off quickly. So for people who say I want to start writing, but it just seems like such a hassle sitting from the computer for 30 minutes and don't write even. Just sit there. But make yourself do it a few times a week with a blank page. You know your hands near the keyboard. You don't have to write, but just make yourself. You've got to sit there for 30 minutes. I would wager not one person, if they do it for a few a couple weeks, would have a blank page after two weeks. I think eventually you'll start getting it, and the more you do it. But you gotta You gotta you gotta. So my point is sets at the time. Set aside that time, and even if you don't write a word, at least commit to the writing process and then then you'll start writing, and then you'll get better at it.

spk_0:   46:06
That's fantastic and borrowing from your running ritual. But in writing terms, you've gotta walk before you run, and I like your point of just giving yourself quiet time whether or not you actually write anything at all, too. Too often we don't find time just to sit and think. And it seems to me what you're describing would be a great thing to accomplish that as well as ultimately get writing. Um, Clay, thank you. It's fantastic in advice on many levels. Ah, um, intrigued by your targeted list making as a productivity tool. I think that is great. And and many, I think I've heard talk about one big to do list. But I'm fascinated by your advice toe. Organize your lists in ways that I think even more productive. Well, certainly include these ideas in the show notes, um, and ways that people can find out more about you and your practice and see the the evidence of your great content on your website and so forth. But all right, you is. You have heard from me. This podcast also lifts up books, sometimes off, usually in the professional development space. But I wonder if there any that you might recommend that have been helpful to you are you have recommended to others.

spk_1:   47:28
Oh, let me see. Well, I have recommended one many times. And that is, Ah, 10% happier by Dan Harris. Oh, yes, he's Ah, he's a TV journalist, too, anyway, had had some issues on the air, and it led him to meditation as a calming, you know, focusing practice for his life. And I read it because I was having some similar stress issues with the practice of law. And the stress is pretty intense in the law and in every profession. So it led me to meditation, and it was it was amazing. And, ah, I bought the book for seven or eight people, and, um, I just love it. And then, in talking about our focused attention to things Butte, Great book, My Count Newport Deep work. I mean, you turned me onto it months ago. I loved it. Um, it made me realize I wasn't spending enough of my day and deep work. It's always a challenge, but I think what I was talking about with sit quietly in front of a computer screen or a note pad without your phone around and you're a writer. I think cow would agree, and I think he would say that's the beginning of your path to really deep work.

spk_0:   48:48
Great advice, great recommendations. I'll make sure both of them are included. 10% happier by Dan Harris. And, of course, what I consider the classic deep work by Cal Newport play Thank you for joining me on the path and forgiven our listeners such good advice on the practice of writing. Thank you.

spk_1:   49:06
Patton has been good being here. Let me say off of Listen to your other episodes. Ah, I think you're well on your way. This is a great podcast

spk_0:   49:14
idea. Well, I appreciate Clay. Good luck with all you got going on. Thanks, man. Well, I hope you enjoyed this conversation with play and are considering right now the different writing routines and rituals you might add to help you along your professional development journey. All four of these elements, I think are very important to enhancing your communication skills and are doing more than just improving your writing. So take advantage of these ideas and check out the show notes associated with this episode and also go to patent McDowell dot com and you'll find an expanded blawg posts That also delves into some of these writing resource is that were discussed, and, as always, don't forget to subscribe to the path podcast if you have not done so already. And thanks for considering the sharing of this and other episodes with your colleagues in the nonprofit community. Thanks again for all your doing to support charitable organizations that are meaningful to you. Keep up the good work, and I'll look forward to seeing you next time on the path.