31: Making the Jump: Corporate America to Nonprofit Executive (Kristin Beck)

spk_0:   0:03
Welcome to your Paths Nonprofit leadership, the weekly podcast that brings you the very best in productivity and career development in the charity sector. I'm your host, Pat McDowell. I'm happy to bring you ideas, and resource is so you can build your professional development plan once again. I've got a fantastic conversation to share with you this week, and it's with Kristin Beck, who has a fascinating journey into nonprofit leadership. She's the executive director of Social Venture Partners here in Charlotte, which in and of itself is a great illustration of venture philanthropy, and we'll get into some of that. But what makes Kristin's story so compelling is that she's a lateral entry into the nonprofit sector after a successful two decade career in corporate America. But this episode is much more than just hearing Kristin's story because she has great details around her strategic process to evaluate a career transition from corporate America to nonprofit. And she talks about the hiring process that effectively turned her in from a candidate into an executive director and how that might apply to your hiring practices at your nonprofit. And she offers an absolute master class in crisis management during the recent Corona virus situation. I'm certain it will give you ideas that you can add to your operating manual as well as ideas to develop your personal strategic plan. Don't forget to check out the show notes, especially for this episode as well Have resource information on the books, the links and other topics Kristen and I discussed. Just go to the podcast or the news page at pat McDowell dot com to get all of the details. Aziz. Well, Aziz. More information on the great work Kristen is doing at Social Venture Partners. Without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Kristin Beck. Kristin, Thanks for joining me on the path.

spk_1:   2:08
Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much for the invitation. It is a pleasure to be with you today.

spk_0:   2:13
I'm excited about this conversation. You have so many good things to share your your journey from corporate America to nonprofit leadership is one that I think many of our listeners have either considered if they're in corporate America and others that have moved into nonprofit have lots to learn from your experience. Of course, the timing of your moved a nonprofit leadership, Kristen is one that ah I'm sure, brings lots of lessons given the uncertainties, of course, of our current situation. And that's the one you arrived into. So let's start with that. Tell us how you came to nonprofit leadership.

spk_1:   2:52
Well, I think I've always had a heart for service and a heart for community. I grew up in a very small town in, um ah, farming community in northwest Ohio. And as is the case with small communities, everybody has to do their part. And so, you know, as a student and and as a child, you know, we were always involved in community activities, and then I wanted to get away from cold, and so I moved south and continue and continue to serve in the community. But then, you know, as I graduated and went off into corporate America into the financial services sector, I was fortunate to work with companies that really valued community engagement. And so I continued to do that. I continue to get involved in other organizations that allowed me to expand and serve the community and a variety of different ways. But after 20 years of rising up through the ranks with many of Fortune 100 Financial Services Cos I started to get a bit of a restlessness about me just wondering if there might not be more on that I could offer in terms of my professional skills. And so I was on a personal retreat and was doing some discernment, and I really created myself a little action plan to start investigating what a move into the sector might look like. And one of the first material steps I took was to enroll. Wake Forest University has a nonprofit Business Essentials leadership certificate program, and so I am a a demon DK. And so I thought, Well, I should check this out, and it was a really easy thing to do. So in 2016 I enrolled in the program while I was still employed full time with a fairly intense leadership position. But I was fortunate that my employer let me step out once a month to take the program. That, and it just opened my eyes that a lot of the skills and experience and management techniques that I had learned over my my career we're very applicable and very much needed. And so I finished that program in 2017. But I still didn't feel like the timing was quite right, so I just then started Teoh serve more intentionally with a number of organizations. I started to explore the world of nonprofit boards and and getting to know some board members and helped a friend of mine who had gone through the program with me awake for us. She transitioned into a new executive director role, So I kind of played heard executive adviser and started to see that. And rather than doing a traditional move into the nonprofit sector, I actually did something pretty unconventional. I reached a point where I actually took a sabbatical, and so in 2018 I stepped out of the workforce completely. It was during was during that time where I was really kind of resting and recharging, because I'd had a fairly intense corporate experience that I started to discern what my next steps might be. And it wasn't until I went through some coaching certifications during that time, Um, but I was missing the collaboration right? So I really wanted to be part of a team and and part of something bigger, the collective good and so in. I was very fortunate that through networking and through one of your previous guests, Joe and Beam. She posted a role with Social Venture partner Charlotte in the summer of 2019. On I went through the fairly rigorous hiring process and joined them in October 2019 as the executive director for social venture partner Charlotte.

spk_0:   6:27
It's fantastic. And of course, little did you know that 2020 would bring a whole new set of leadership adventures. But the journey Kristen, I just love that it represents so many things we talked about with other guests and you articulated so well, um, the concept of personal retreat, the opportunity that you were strategic in your board and volunteer activities to help you better orient to nonprofit activity, the use of a coach, um, the networking with Joanne as an example. The educational pursuit. You you couldn't have hit the path to nonprofit leadership thinking better. And so that's why I'm eager to talk about. And I guess one point before we move into the other details. It wasn't like you totally disliked. You're successful experiences of 20 years and for profit. No, right. It wasn't like I hate this job, and I got to get out. It was thoughtful.

spk_1:   7:26
Yeah. I mean, I definitely felt like I not that you ever fully learned everything there is to know, but I just felt like I really it was more of a calling to be frank on, but I just felt like I you know, that next level of management in my corporate setting was not really something. I aspired, Teoh. It was, You know, I had kind of reached the level that I was at, and I was ready for a new challenge. I mean, I was seen a bit as a subject matter expert in the role that I was in, and I really was looking for something that was going to challenge me and something that I felt like had a bit of a higher purpose or more, more meaning behind it. And so I didn't know what that looks like. And to be really honest, it wasn't, wasn't like I had this plan and I executed it perfectly. I had a plan, but I held loose enough to the plans to be open to you know what I call divine appointments right where you meet someone new or you get exposed to an organization you didn't know about. And you allow yourself to follow the trail and having the luxury. And I recognize it is a true luxury, um, of being able to take a sabbatical of personal sabbatical. Um, I had the space to think and explore, and I went I went down some dead ends, right? I mean, as we already when we're really exploring something. But I just turned around, said Okay, that didn't work. Or what did I learn from this? And how should I alter my path on Teoh to make a better decision the next time or two to go explore a different avenue? And And that's really you know, I didn't have such a rigidity to my plan that I missed out on what has turned out to be the dream job I never knew existed.

spk_0:   9:12
That's it's fantastic. And again, you're right. Not everybody maybe has the opportunity to take a full sabbatical. But I do think everybody has opportunity to to step back and reflect on whether that's a weekend or a week or some period of time. But I think, sadly, many of our colleagues in for profit and nonprofit don't allow that time, and they just continue to grind away and feel a frustration. And then, frankly, don't see the invitation. I guess you call the divine invitation. Perhaps that can occur. And so delighted you mentioned that

spk_1:   9:45
One thing I would mention is that when I formulated this nonprofit exploration development action plan for myself, I was actually on a personal retreat. And one of my one of my strategies, as I was sort of starting to recognize the signs of burnout in the corporate sector was I started taking quarterly retreats, treats. And so it was during one of those weekends that I came up with this plan, and then that was in Really, that was in May of 2016 when that happened. And then I didn't step out of the corporate workforce until the end of 2017. So another strategy that I employed was in addition to those big weekends. I also started taking kind of a Sabbath, right, and that can have an overly religious tone. But I think the spirit and message of it, regardless of your faith beliefs, is a very valuable one, which is I started out just carving out four hours a week, and for me that had to be on the weekends because of my work schedule. But I started with four hours a week and I just gave myself permission to do whatever recharged me during those four hours. And eventually I expanded that to a full day where I would not allow myself to do any kind of work or to do any kind of chore home, like I just was reaching a level of exhaustion that I needed that times to kind of re refocus and reconnected. It was really That was kind of the beginnings of this, prompting of Maybe you need something more significant than that. But it was. It's a tool that I still continue to try to practice, although in the intensity of the situation we're in. For some people, it's easier and for others like myself. My work schedule got really crazy when this covert thing cranked up. But that time and that boundary around your schedule is so important because what I remember when I come off of those times is I'm so much better when I get back to work because of my brain has had a break and I'm thinking about things differently.

spk_0:   11:48
Absolutely. What a great best practice again, Kristen. You're articulating that. It's not just, ah, practice for what I'm thinking about a career change, but frankly, it's something I'm sure you will continue to incorporate into your ongoing leadership journey, right?

spk_1:   12:04
Yeah, yeah, it's just been really helpful in. And when I get overly, you know, coming out of seasons of intense working and we all have those days or projects or events that we're working on that just completely consume us. It's so important to remember that you've got to recharge that you can't continue to pour from an empty vessel, and and you really have to take the time. And that looks different for everyone, so there's no right way to do it. What worked for me may not work for you,

spk_0:   12:33
right, But the point of self care and my colleague Mike Blackwelder lifted up that in a recent episode you can focus on everything else, but eventually you are going to run out of gas if you're not somewhat disciplined about the self care you just described. Well, Christine, before we dive into the frankly, the leadership in action, you've had to demonstrate in your early tenure at social venture partners. Tell us the listeners who may not be familiar with the concept of social venture partners, which of course, is a wonderful organization here in Charlotte. But it's it's part of a much larger movement.

spk_1:   13:09
Yes, it Social Venture Partners was actually founded out in Seattle in 1999 and it was is founded with the venture philanthropy model in mind. And that's a fancy term that many people may not be familiar with. But much like venture capitalists who are investing financially in up and coming and high potential businesses, they don't just write a check or or issue funding. They come alongside with their business acumen and their expertise. They roll up their sleeves and they get involved with the business leadership toe help those businesses grow. And so what Venture philanthropy is is something very similar. We're doing that same level of, you know, maybe not the same level of investment, but there's a financial investment. But there's also a service and an investment of your human capital, your human expertise. And so that was founded out in Seattle. Um, and then the model just kind of continued to grow and expand. And in 2005 which is 15 years ago, hard to believe it was. There was a group of 28 community leaders here in Charlotte who made the initial investment to bring a Social Venture Partners affiliate here to Charlotte and now the network. The Social Venture Partners International Network has grown to include 43 affiliates in eight different countries around the world. So we're really proud of of the growth of the network. But what that allows us to do as members in that network is really share best practices. Share resource is and ideas. But the way it works tactically here in Charlotte is our partners. And that's what we call them our primary donors on. And so they they pay an annual fee. And it is through that fee that we establish our grant fund. Um, and then they agree to come alongside and serve as well. So we make annual investment decisions are typical. Grants are you know, it's usually a three year commitment to come alongside, and our specific mission is to passionately attack social and economic inequality. Here in Charlotte, the S V p I network does not mandate what our mission is. They just man, you know, they just want us to use the venture philanthropy model so other affiliates may be focused on youth or maybe focused on education. Here in Charlotte, we're really focused on a wide range of of issues that supporting and investing in other nonprofits that are attacking those barriers to social and economic mobility.

spk_0:   15:49
Yes, it's fantastic. And what a great example of philanthropy in action. And of course, as you noted, this is not a kind of passive make a donation and then wait for an annual report to tell me what happened. Yeah, your investors, your partners are actively involved. And of course, that's going to lead to more of our discussion because it was yet another ah stakeholder group you had to maneuver with over the course of the last few months. But thank you for our listeners not familiar with social venture partners in that entire network. I will encourage you to look for that type of organization if it exists in your community, and we can link to the national and international network in our show notes. But as we move again to the current situation that you had to deal with. Let's start first. How do you stay organizer? Because your organizational skills were put to the test. I'm quite sure as you maneuvered over the last few months, but generally speaking, do you have any particular tactics that help you stay organized as a leader?

spk_1:   16:55
I'm a huge fan of the list, and I'm a huge fan of the calendar, Um, and so obviously, you know, I try to do a brain dump. That's also something that I sort of learned was put out all the things that are consuming your mind, your ideas. And then I try on Sunday evenings to kind of make a master list of the things I need to get done over the course of the next week on. And then I try to put them on my calendar. But every day I really start with taking that list and where I can slot things, you know, like recording this podcast with you. I knew it was scheduled for this particular date and time. Put that on the calendar. I try to protect some white space to actually do work, Aziz. We can get really consumed with meetings and appointments and networking. But every day I really try to pick three things like these are the three things I have to get done. Um, and then the other unique twist, which is something that is just indicative of the conditions were under is I'm married and my husband and I have one home office on. And so the other part of my new schedule is in the morning. We compare our meeting schedules who really needs to be in the office, where it's quiet, where the lighting is good for zoom calls and video conferencing. Um, and so we re do our best to flex in and out of our home office. Teoh, you know, to share our resource is exactly so that that's a new organizational test that I have not had to do before. But now that we're both working from home full time, that's another element of my day in my planning.

spk_0:   18:30
Speaking of our our all of our transitions to this work from home environment, it doesn't impact even our family members. Doesn't it our productivity as well? But ah, again applaud your approach in general to organization, and as I mentioned earlier and you will well know 2020 started with a plan in mind. And then by February, certainly by March, everything was thrown into a different direction. Tell May, Krista, how did you kind of first triage, You know, a plan that was in place and you had a big event coming up. How did you just generally attack these multiple issues that were kind of coming at you? Full speed?

spk_1:   19:13
Yeah, the timing of this was rather inconvenient. Not that there's ever a great time for a pandemic, but our one of our other programs, that is is common with many social venture partner affiliates around the country and around the world. Is this concept of a fast pitch competition and are our fast pitch competition has a proprietary brand. It's called seed 20 and that stands for social entrepreneurs empowered. And it's a major programme multi month program where we choose 20 of the areas most innovative nonprofits, and we put them through a training and preparation program. Um, to be able to take the stage physically at the night theater and give a three minute talk on essentially pitch for supports, and it's a massive program You know, we have over between 901,000 attendees every single year at one of the, you know, one of the nicest theaters here in the Charlotte area, and it was scheduled. The final, culminating events, was scheduled for March 31st in the last time. The last time that our organization was physically together was March that March the 11th. So we had just had our final coaching night because all of our non profits, they're not just expected to show up on March 31st and give their talk. We actually lead them through a multi month coaching session, their assigned with community coaches. We take them through training and we help them refine their pitches over the course of eight weeks. And so we had our final coaching night, which was our selection night. All 20 gave their pitches. We were gathered as a steering committee. It should be said that my organization is really small. I only have two other co workers and one is part time. So literally were 2.5 full time equivalents, but we had gathered together to make our final decisions about our finalists, and I said to them. I need I need to make a request. As we started to think about contingency plans because things were deteriorating and was becoming very apparent, I said, I need to make an ask. Our steering committee was large because this is a huge event. We have almost 20 volunteers on this committee that that run this program. Um, and I said, I think we're gonna have to employ a tactic that I've used in my professional life. But I need to ask for a handful of you to sign up to be on the SWAT team and SWAT

spk_0:   21:47
team. Literally. You phrase it?

spk_1:   21:48
Yeah, that's exactly what I said because I have nine people on our board of directors and their wonderful but many of them, you know, have full demanding full time jobs on. And then I had, you know, a subset of them were part of this 2020 person steering committee, and I said, I suspect the information is going to come at us rapidly. I expect that it's going to be very dynamic, and I can't get all 20 of you on the phone to make a decision, So I'd like to propose that over the course of the next couple of days, we try this SWAT team approach and so four or five of our committee members raised their hands and said, I commit to doing it and I said, at minimum we'll have a daily conference call which would turned into be a zoom meeting right? Most everything has been and I said, We're gonna have at least one meeting a day. Everyone will be invited. But I will only expect those of you on the SWAT team to be president. And we will. We will review new information that has developed. We will identify what decisions need to be made, and we will make whatever decisions need to be made. We'll also identify next steps. It's off. What are the next actions that we need to take and who will take them? And finally, we will set our next SWAT team meeting. And I have to say, there were some days where I had three and four of those

spk_0:   23:06
ago I was gonna ask you so it wasn't. It was even more than daily in some cases

spk_1:   23:10
Onley on a few days. But that was just because information was changing. So much where we shifted pretty quickly into a virtual events That was gonna be a live stream. And then we ultimately couldn't even safely, you know, live stream from the location. We chose an alternate location, and things just continue to kind of deteriorate. Um, so we needed to be nimble and functional, and there were a couple of times where some really profound information came to light, and I made the call. Is the executive director that you know what guys like the four or five of us here on the SWAT team like this is a bigger decision. And so I called for some decision, mate meetings on. I put out the message to my board into my steering committee and said, This is the important decision. This is the information. Anyone who is available, please. You know, when I tried to give us much notices, I could please jump on this call. We need to make an organizational decision about X and and so those were two tactics that, quite frankly, I took from my days running call centers part of my early days. I was actually this is gonna date me a bit, but I was actually running a telemarketing call center during 9 11 on and And, you know, when the world stopped on a dime and when you had to stop calling people, you know, literally, there were a couple of tactics, and one of them was this concept of there's an open bridge line. Information will be shared and this cadence of you don't you don't pre defined when you're gonna meet you. Decide at the end of the meeting when the next meeting is necessary because you're expecting new information you're expecting. Go do some research. You can't. You can't get too far ahead of yourself In those triage moments. You have to make the best decision, but you're in a time. And so that was a concept that I just, you know, introduced. It was embraced for organization. The other really important part of after every SWAT meeting that I held is I had a bulleted template of notes. Who was at the meeting? What time did it happen? What was what was the new information? What were the decisions that were made? What were the key action steps and when is the next update coming? And it was a format that we used every day for 20 days until we executed the program.

spk_0:   25:25
It's fantastic. And I'm sure you would agree. That sounds to me like a practical take away every non profit organization should consider. You don't want to have to pull this out, but assuming now this becomes alongside your succession planning or other operational tactics that it would that be fair to say, and in a recommendation, maybe for other non.

spk_1:   25:47
I think you know, a couple pieces of that is recognizing kind of who your critical decision makers are right and getting them, you know, getting their commitment to be available, but also recognizing when you need the bra auto group, you know? I mean, I think that was one piece is the other thing that we did, and I think this is just now becoming part of the DNA of our organization. But we knew that when we were beginning this the first swap meeting, we did a stakeholder analysis.

spk_0:   26:15
Good. Tell me about that

spk_1:   26:17
and we identified who were all the stakeholders in this program. We certainly had our non profit participants. We had sponsors, we have ticket holders. We had our organization and our donors and our board. And so we we laid out all the stakeholders and then which we decided upon a communication protocol. So what was the order of information that was gonna cascade down In what order? And so that has that information was changing. And as decisions were being made that required communication. We already had pre decided what our communication flow and priority order was going to be, so that if we needed to develop communications in parallel was very easy to delegate. You take the sponsor communication, you take the partner communication, you take the nonprofit communication, you take the ticket communication. And we could we could farm it out quickly. And we knew we knew the order and with in which it needed to be released so that we didn't have a sponsor find out publicly or we didn't have a board member, you know, I mean, there's just a There's an order of importance and critical information flow that makes sense. And so some of those things we decided up front really helped us be more effective.

spk_0:   27:34
It's fantastic, I assume. Does that allow for course, two way communication? So if I'm responsible for a certain stakeholder group, and it's also my responsibility to kind of keep my ear to the ground and hear what feedback comes back. And is that kind of how then the SWAT team could work information, both directions?

spk_1:   27:52
Yeah, for some groups, right? Like there's not a lot of back and forth with our ticket holders, right? Because at that point we told hundreds of tickets and and they were you know, we were trying to minimize a lot of noise. There was certain there were certain decisions we made that we talked through with our board and are non profit participants and our sponsors that we didn't talk through, you know, publicly, right? Makes sense. So I think you it really gets back to that stakeholder analysis and who needs to provide inputs and who needs to just be informed and then, you know, kind of the order of information flow. And that really helped us because we didn't have to make those decisions. Every time something came to light that required communication, we'd already decided,

spk_0:   28:38
Yeah, it's fantastic and you're planning paid off, and I'm sure I guess now that you were able to do the event in a different manner. Quite successfully, I would add. Were there lessons now in the short term and course we still deal with uncertainty going forward. But let's start with how did you kind of evaluate your kind of rapid management tactics?

spk_1:   29:04
Yeah, I think we're still learning. I mean, we hope to not have to do this this way again, because the power of it is really the networking. This isn't just a show or a one night thing. This is a This is networking opportunity that included a pre reception and a post reception. So, you know, when we think back on it, um, you know, a couple of the lessons River Lea learned was just the importance of having high quality vendor partners. We could not have transitioned this thing to a fully virtual event had it not been for our our partnership that has already been established with priceless miscellaneous. There are, ah, local video production company that actually they provide video services around the world and they they won an Emmy for one of our seed 20 pitches several years ago, starting these world world class. But they know the importance of really using high quality vendors to the degree that you can afford it. They proved to be absolutely invaluable

spk_0:   30:05
and adaptable to write

spk_1:   30:06
very, very much. Um, I think that was a really important lesson. I think this whole, you know, sort of stakeholder analysis were really incorporating that into the fabric of how we look at everything in our organization, all of our programs, all of the ways in which we interact with our partners and with those that were collaborating with. Um And I think the other thing we learned is to give ourselves some grace. And I think the current climate we're in right now is, you know, really calls for that. We're all navigating the unknown, the unprecedented and so doing something. If you if you really do look at it from all angles and we tried to every step of the decision making process, we really tried to think about it from that 360 degree stakeholder view, you know? Where did we get it? Perfectly? No. Did we make some missteps? Absolutely. But you do the best with what you can. And then we very much held a 90 minute debrief session About a week after the event, after we all had a little more sleep and a little bit of time to go back and say, Okay, what were things that we learned through this process? But also, you know, this is the ninth year we've done this program. So 180 nonprofit organizations have come through the C 20 program, and so we're always trying. You can't hold on innovation competition and not innovate as the as the organization that host. So, you know, we talked about some new things and some things we learned and things were considering and evaluating as we begin, because we have started already planning for 2021.

spk_0:   31:44
I knew you would. And I was gonna ask you that again. Given the uncertainty going forward, how do you approach strategic planning? Yeah, you know where traditionally we had a little more certainty of activity both now and going forward, but yeah, we don't. What do you What do you do?

spk_1:   32:01
So I think a couple of things is one we've started, especially with big major events. And I recognize that many of your listeners may have events this summer or their big event is in the summer There big event is in the fall for us. We're leaving, You know, ours is usually in the spring, and we're even talking about kind of a parallel path of, you know, let's do the things we would do under quote unquote normal circumstances. But let's also have a backup plan for if we have to do another virtual that, what will that look like? So that's just on the tactical kind of program execution standpoint. But I think for our strategic planning is two things that we keep doing and and I think is important is keep coming back to the mission and kind of core principles of what is how your organization. You know, what it was founded upon and how you deliver your work and trying to keep coming back to that. I think the other piece is separating short term immediate versus longer term, and so you may not be able to do as much of the longer term strategic work that you had planned because so much of your programming may be interrupted or the the other side of that is. Maybe now your organization has a ton of extra capacity, and this is a great time to step back and say OK, like, are we generally headed in the right direction? You know, does our strategy, you know, I think everyone needs always kind of have that. Is it relevant? Is the time does it still make sense? And so I'm quick to understand And I think most people do Is that the situations that were living conditions under which we're living today? Some have a lot more capacity and some have a lot less because now you've got working. Parents were home schooling who are you know so and the same thing with some organizations you know, there, their programming needs have really dwindled and other organizations can't get enough. Volunteers can't execute because the demands of their services has skyrocketed. So I think you got to really take a personal approach and say, What makes sense for your staff, for your board, for your organization has our capacity going up has our capacity, become much more compressed and and make the best decision you can but not try to be superheroes and do it all. You just can't

spk_0:   34:26
well put then and you're right back to your point of giving ourselves, Grace and those around us a zoo, much as we want to achieve. We've got to be sensitive to that. And I'm curious. Christina's. You have arrived somewhat recently into the nonprofit scene. What has been the networking? The support, Of course you're surrounded by incredible partners and very entrepreneurial nonprofit. Mine's just within social venture partners. But have you found opportunities to kind of network, so to speak, within the sector?

spk_1:   34:59
Yeah, it's been wonderful. I have to say, I was sort of intimidated, and I think we all can face the imposter syndrome, especially when you make a major career pivot into a completely different sector into a completely different role. So, you know, I would be remiss in saying that I didn't face a little that as I took on this assignment. But I think asking questions and being open people have been incredibly generous with their advice with their insight. Um, I took a similar stakeholder approach to my networking as well eso. So I reached out to obviously you know, my board members and staff members and partners, But then community collaborators are sponsors of our different programs and really made sure that was a big part of my on boarding and transition in my schedule was that every week I tried toe have a certain number of networking conversations. And honestly, that's how I met you. Yeah, exactly good. You

spk_0:   36:01
know, I'm honored to be on your list. Certainly led to great conversation,

spk_1:   36:07
but really just recognizing that there are some really, really smart people and talented people and most people are willing to share their best practices. And I went in with, you know, a lot more questions and a lot more like, you know, who's Who else should I meet? I mean, that was a question that I always always, when I meet someone new is who Who else would you recommend? I meet? What other advice would you give me? What other organizations, and in particular for me being here in the Charlotte community? What other organizations should I get to know and being, You know, people are often very quick to offer advice and get their rest practices, and and sometimes that looked like a phone call. And sometimes, you know, back in the fall that looked like a cup of coffee, and now it looks very much like zoom calls. But people people are usually willing, and it may take a couple of months to get on someone's calendar to get calendars aligned. Um, but I think, you know, prioritizing the the groups and the people did you want to emulate. I think that's the other pieces. If there are influential leaders or people that have been in a long time, or have a certain level of expertise that you don't have that you'd like to learn from, you know, not all networking requests, meetings and opportunities are of equal priority. So I think I think we can get really caught up in the busy on we can get really spun up around I gotta do X number, but just always kind of come back to what's gonna help me or what you know what are some relationships that are more critical to my success into the organization's success and using that as a way to help you navigate through the transition? Um, and on the other best practice. Also offer is not so much a networking piece, but as I transitioned, the board was very forward thinking in that they identified a transition support team for me

spk_0:   38:10
What does that mean? What is that like? So that was that like,

spk_1:   38:13
Yeah. So that was a group of I had three weeks of overlap with our wonderful outgoing executive director who is retiring after 11 years of awesome service. Um, but the board ah, subset of our board and a handful of our partners raised their hand and said I will be available to Kristen to answer her questions, to check in on her repeatedly to make sure that the organization is is giving her what she needs and helping her in this transition. So I didn't feel I mean, I didn't feel guilty at all for calling upon these people because they had The board said, this is what we're bringing

spk_0:   38:48
designated him too, right?

spk_1:   38:49
Yeah. Yeah. So I thought was a very smart strategy on their part to number one. Make me feel incredibly welcome. And incredibly valued, as you know, as a new member of the staff, but also saying we want to make sure that you've got everything you need to be successful. And here are some different people who have different subject matter, expertise, their knowledge about our organization, and they're coming forward And they've already said they'll answer your calls, though they'll be available to you. Um, and it was a wonderful experience for something for an organization that has had a handle the transition in more than 10 years. Like it was amazing the way that they did handle. Yeah,

spk_0:   39:29
they went straight to best practice. Didn't. In so many organizations, you and I both have seen, unfortunately, struggle with that. They do the hard work of the higher in the selection, and then they just kind of parachute you in and say, you know, good luck Rescued. See you at the next board meeting, RAM. In fact, Kristin, you mentioned that even as a candidate, you could see that there was real thought given to the hiring process and for so many of our nonprofit listeners are going to be involved in the hiring of staff or if their board members of senior leaders talk about some of the things s V. P did as a candidate that you found impressive and certainly assured a successful search.

spk_1:   40:10
Yeah, so I think they were. They try to be really thoughtful about the job description, and I think they were behavioral based in kind of what the job expectations so and has, ah, career coach, you know, as part of my side hustle. You know, the thing that drives me crazy is responsible for, like, nobody wants to be re me. Yes, you are responsible for That's not a very action oriented and it's not very skilled based, right? Right. So I do think they were pretty good about, um, you know, really trying to paint a picture of what the role entailed. I think they did a great job in their communication. They were very well organized. They laid out kind of a rough schedule. I think they were really upfront about salary and benefits right out of the gate. And for some people that you know, as we as many of us know, there's not as not always as much flexibility in the compensation and the benefits side of the equation in the nonprofit sector as maybe in the for profit sector. Sure, So they were very honest about that, and they were very like if this very much gave me the opportunity withdrawal if it didn't meet my expectations or if it was gonna be out of alignment and So I you know, I think they were is transparent as they could be through the process. There was two pieces. A couple of other things they did is they recorded with my permission. And with all the candidates permission, they recorded most of the interviews, either the phone interviews and then even my in person was video recorded. And what that allowed was for their broader selection committee to be part of the decision making process without putting 10 people in the room or into seven people in the room. That was a technique in a tactic I was not familiar with. I obviously is, the candidate was told and was asked for my permission to do that. But But what I think it allowed was I wasn't overwhelmed by some huge big panel, Um, it felt very intimate and very, you know, personal, Um, and then the things that they did in the in person, which is critical to my job Success is the ability to have hard conversations and coaching discussions and developmental conversations. Um, they did a role play interview, which is not necessarily your standard interview, but it's more of a behavioral, e based role play, and it really allowed, I believe, need a showcase. My communication style, my management style, my leadership style in a very pragmatic way

spk_0:   42:37
with advance notice. Kristen ordered that you know what's gonna happen when you got there. And then they told you?

spk_1:   42:42
Yes. No, no. They sent me the outline of what the role play was gonna look like. So they told me, Here's who you're gonna be talking to hear some back story. Here's some background information. Um, it wasn't overly onerous or difficult, but I think it allowed for really good way for the organization to get a true picture of all of the candidates and how they would handle a scenario. We know as nonprofit leaders, you sometimes have to have hard conversations and you can't plan out that entire conversation, right? You know some facts about the situation, you don't necessarily know how the other person's gonna respond, and your effectiveness is a leader depends on you being able to navigate those situations. So that was one type of interview that was part of the process that I think was valuable. And I think more organizations both for profit and not for profit, should use on the 2nd 1 was a presentation because obviously, you know, part of our all of our funding comes from donors and sponsors and being able Teoh effectively share the message of the organization to large groups of people and navigate, you know, tools like Power Point and and just stand in front of a group of people and speak. That's a big part of my role. So to be able to not just ask me questions about how I do it but to actually ask me to do it. And so I was given, you know, a couple of weeks with parameters. It needed to be X x minutes long. It needed to communicate these three things you should assume you're presenting to this audience. Be prepared, Teoh, you know, do these five things in your presentation, and it was sort of a rubric around that and again, you know, I think it was a great way to really gauge people's skill set in that area. So that's just two pieces that were important to me and my role, I think I would say for other hiring managers, think about the tactics, think about the things that you're the person you're trying to, the role you're trying to fill. How could you turn that into a practical exercise that would allow you to really evaluate their skills in real time?

spk_0:   44:49
It's It's excellent, Kristen, and I'm guessing you would agree then, as the winning candidate. You, in essence, your orientation started before you even officially started, right, because they had helped you get oriented to what? SPP?

spk_1:   45:03
Yeah, and you know, I mean, it really made you know I had a Not that, you know, not that you don't prepare for an interview, but I have to say I felt extremely well prepared. It also probably heightened the quality of my questions right, because, you know, in the hiring process, you should make sure you allow your candidates ask questions because it's not just about you picking them, but it's about them saying yes to you if they're ultimately offered the opportunity. And I think so many people forget you have a choice and as a candidate, if it's not a good fit, if it's not a good cultural fit. If you are concerned about board support or you know any aspect of the organization, you should ask in a tactful way especially, you know, as it's as you're trying to learn more and more about the organization. And I think doing some of those practical exercises really forced. You know, my questions were very different because I had to go do the research on some of these things to be prepared.

spk_0:   46:04
Yeah, it's It's such a good example, and we in the nonprofit sector struggle with many of our hiring decisions. And sadly, the turnover issues plague many, many nonprofits. But perhaps if we invested in more of a process like you just went through, we would be more successful in matchmaking, you know, talent with, ah, the positions these nonprofits need.

spk_1:   46:29
It was not quick. I mean, I would say that right?

spk_0:   46:32
One element, right?

spk_1:   46:34
And I think there were a couple of rounds of elimination eso One of the other things they did was writing and written. Communication is important. So when I submitted my application, they said, Thank you so much for your you know, your resume and cover letter. Here's two questions that we're asking all of our applicants to respond. Teoh. So So they had a couple of steps where I think they were likely narrowing the field. Um, so again, it's not fast, but I think I believe and I think our organization would agree that by taking some extra time you have the better chance of making the right choice. Um, making the right choices. That is usually better than making a fast choice.

spk_0:   47:16
The quality of the process, right, as opposed to the speed and it's it's fantastic. And, well, Christine, you have been an absolute gold mine of practical advice. Um, and I'm grateful for that. And I wonder again, now that you've been through and as you would admit, early in your nonprofit leadership, although clearly leadership has been a hallmark of yours for your entire career, is there any other advice you'd offer? If there's a listener now thinking, Hey, and quite honestly, I wonder in this pandemic environment, a lot of people are reflecting career pass. Any other advice you'd offer someone pondering nonprofit leadership?

spk_1:   47:55
I think you can't, you know, do your homework and don't feel like you. It's an all or nothing decision. I think you know, as I mentioned, and some people have some excess capacity, Or maybe, you know, maybe they've been forced to make a career president because of the current Klein It it's a really good opportunity for you to step back and identify your priorities. You know what is important to you in the next role, and I think that that holds whether you're employed today or not employed today is you know, when you really think about what you're looking for in your next organization or in your next position, you know, evaluate all the elements. Is it you know, salary? Is it quality of life? Is that the type of work is that the size of the organization is that geographic locations and make yourself a prioritized list, much like buying a home or making a big investment? There are things that are on the must have list, and then there are things that are nice toe have list, and I think you've got to be really clear on that list is gonna look different for every person. But, you know, do some introspection, takes some time to think about what is most important to you, and then don't be afraid to reach out and ask people for their experience. You know, explore and say what Can you tell me about this organization or I see that you've now, you know, you're the chief development officer. Can you tell me a little bit about how you got into this role or you know, if you see someone is linked in profile and you see that they've made a major shift, know how did you make that shift and what advice would you give me? And so I think it just starts with. You have to understand what's important to you and those kind of the must have versus the nice toe have. But then I think you got to be bold to step outside your comfort zone and and ask questions and, you know, just be open toe learning

spk_0:   49:49
great advice once again and thought provoking because I think that's exactly what I hope this podcast articulates. Those people ponder their path to nonprofit leadership. You're asking exactly the right questions and certainly have provided tactics to help people with that. Ah, lifetime assessment. Um, as a lifetime learner that you have clearly demonstrated yourself to be referenced a couple sources you've going to for education and networking things like that. As you know, I ask each of my guests has there been a book or on the professional development kind of circuit that you have particularly enjoyed or recommend?

spk_1:   50:30
Um, one of the books that I actually really enjoyed it. It's more on the personal development than professional development books is my favorite, and there's also a podcast by the same name is called The Next Right Thing. It's by Emily P. Freeman. Um, put the caveat out there. She is a Christian author and writer, but she, you know, so many of us can really get caught up in decision fatigue and, you know, really get swirled around analysis paralysis. And, um, her book came out kind of in the middle of my sabbatical. Um, and and it was just It was gold

spk_0:   51:08
timely family, wouldn't it?

spk_1:   51:10
On? I actually gave it to the retiring executive director when she left as she went into retirement. And I think I think this book could be helpful to you. Um and so that was my parting gift as a thank you to her. So that's one book I really enjoy. The other one. A couple of other resource is that I have enjoyed as a leader is, I think Patrick Lindsey Oniy, who was the author of The Five Dysfunctions of a Team.

spk_0:   51:36
Yes, indeed.

spk_1:   51:37
I just really. I like everything about him and he hasn't. He's just launched a new podcast called At the Table, and there's some exceptional episodes on, um, leading during crisis that have been so helpful to me, and I think to many others, whether you're in the nonprofit sector or the for profit sector. I love his books. You know, five dysfunctions of a team is one of my favorites as well. But, you know, just from a quick, easy, digestible manner, Um, his his podcast is another favorite that I lied. I have more time these days to podcast them

spk_0:   52:14
exactly, but that that's fantastic. And you're right, Lindsay only is, I think I've got three or four of his additions on my bookshelf, and I'm happy to lift up, of course, five dysfunctions as well as the new podcasts, because that is a great example of ah resource we could take advantage of.

spk_1:   52:33
Yeah, I think his his podcast is called at the table because his consulting firm is called the Table Group, and it's kind of the concept of you. Gather your your internal board of directors around the table, right? Like you're exactly your tribe and your mentors and your board of advisers, and you get them around a table and, you know, kind of work together. And so, um but yeah, those are those are some of my favorite resource is

spk_0:   52:57
Kristen. We will lift them up in our show. Notes Aziz, you have given us lots of great resource is, of course, will also connect to, ah, social venture partners. I take it that's where you might send listeners who are interested in learning more about you and the great work you're doing here in Charlotte.

spk_1:   53:13
Yeah, absolutely. And I would also invite people if they want to connect with me on lengthen. That has been a tremendous resource. I learned new information and find great articles and and resource is through lengthen. And I think it's a platform that, you know, sometimes we forget about, and people are spending more time ever in front of screens right now. So if somebody wants to send me a direct message on lengthen Kristen Winkle, back is the way my profile reads on LinkedIn and I would welcome the opportunity to connect with any of your listeners.

spk_0:   53:45
You're fantastic. We will make that connection as well. And Kristen, thank you so much for joining me on the path.

spk_1:   53:53
It was my pleasure. Thank you for the invitation to be here. I enjoyed it.

spk_0:   54:00
Well, Hope you enjoyed this conversation with Chris as much as I did, and certainly came away with practical ideas that can shape your professional development plan as well as your organization strategy. Kristen was certainly in a fantastic example of what we coach on the path to nonprofit leadership. Her taking of a personal planning, retreat, sabbatical, if you will, her strategic networking and certainly her ability to curate the right kind of knowledge to assure her success when she arrived in an executive director role. Don't forget the show. Notes are available on our website patent McDowell dot com. You can find out more about everything we discussed and, of course, Kristin and the great work she's doing at Social Venture partners. As always, please share this episode with someone else on the path. If you haven't already maybe consider subscribing, you can go to the podcast page. Also, it pat McDowell dot com and you'll see links to Apple podcast Spotify in all of the other primary platforms. Thanks for what you're doing in the nonprofit sector, especially right now. And keep up the good work for causes that are most meaningful to you. I'll keep bringing you the content that can help you do it even better. Have a great week and I'll see you next time on the path.