32: Community Leadership in the Philanthropic Sector (Michael Marsicano)

Patton:   0:03
Welcome to your path to nonprofit leadership. The weekly podcast features the very best in productivity and professional development in the nonprofit sector. I'm your host, Pat McDowell, and happy to bring you a bonus episode that will help shape your thinking on nonprofit leadership. I'm delighted to bring you this conversation with Michael Marcie Cano, who is the president and CEO of the Foundation for the Carolinas, which is one of the largest community foundations in the United States. He's passionate about bringing communities together and maximizing philanthropy to improve all aspects of society. And like nonprofit leaders all over the world, he was faced with an unprecedented challenge and opportunity. With the arrival of Covered 19 he and his team mobilized and created a Cove in 19 Response fund, one of the largest efforts anywhere in the country. And while the fund itself is a fascinating study in community partnerships in the power philanthropy, Michael not discuss much more. What are the lessons nonprofit leaders should be taking from this current crisis? And how can they best leverage their teams, their boards and their donors? What does this mean for the nonprofit sector? After we get through this initial relief effort. What does this mean for the arts and culture organizations that are not on the front line but are hurting nonetheless? These are just a few of the topics we discussed, and Michael has great words of wisdom and actionable takeaways in each case, don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode. Number 30 to just go to the podcast or the news page at patton McDowell dot com, and you'll find all of the resource is links and books, as well as more information on Michael in the great work he is doing through the foundation for the Carolinas. Without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Michael Morse. Khanna Michael Thank you for joining me on the path

Michael:   2:04
patent. I'm so pleased to be with you this afternoon. Thank you for taking the time to have the conversation.

Patton:   2:10
Well, you were already a very busy leader before this current situation engulfed all of us. And so I'm grateful for your time and their lot of leadership lessons here, as we've talked about before, hitting record, I wonder if you might share as this whole drama of Cove in 19 began to descend on all of us. What was it like for you personally, as a leader of a significant community foundation

Michael:   2:36
for patents? Certainly. It's Ah, it's a learning lesson for all of us. I guess my, um, most important lesson has been related to the difference in how time is being used in my work. So, for example, um, I have always promoted that CEOs of nonprofits, to the extent that they can be there, they need to be living in the future. And most CEOs of nonprofits, I think, unfortunately, are so consumed with the day to day work, but they're not living in the future. So I structured the foundation such that 75% of my time is really living in the future and working externally, and only 25% of my time is working internally. And usually from that, in the 75% of the time I'm bringing back my idea is, or my external influences to the team that I have the privilege of working with and I'm or working with them on some of these ideas, well, that's been turned completely upside down, right? I'm working overwhelmingly on internal issues, and I am getting managed up significantly by my has to how we're going about not only keeping the foundation running but also helping the community. So it's been a complete, uh, complete change in the in the use of my time. And it had me the more sensitive and sympathetic to the nonprofit sector that we serve, because I don't think many CEOs have the luxury of of having that 75% of the time thinking about the future and be working externally. So I have a much greater appreciation. I think for a lot of the nonprofits that we make grants to and that we're serving,

Patton:   4:39
that's well put. And I love philosophically. You raise that point, and I think leaders should consider their division of labor, so to speak. But you have clearly had to move it back inside, so to speak, to best address all the issues coming at you

Michael:   4:55
exactly, and they're coming at us. Very talk about

Patton:   4:59
the national, if not international, network of community foundations. Has there been lots of communication amongst that group as you formulated plans right here in Charlotte?

Michael:   5:10
Yes. Ah, patent. It's a very collegial group. We have to formal groups one is, ah, the larger community foundations that have assets of 500 million above, and we meet twice a year to exchange information and learn from one another. And then I also have a group of about 13 of us that are not based on our our assets size, but just folks that ah, in the field that we really admire one another. And so we have our own cohort of of information exchange, and I've drawn on those folks a lot and to give you some idea of what we're all doing right now. First off, interesting note is that of the 800 community foundations that exist in the United States, roughly 800 96% of community foundations have closed their facilities in their offices, and they are working remotely. That's that's quite interesting because we're very complicated organizations, functionally at the office to be able to work remotely, so that was impressive to me to learn most. All of us I think the flight is figure I saw was 98% of community foundations are making grants to help in the cove in 19 crisis. Many of those are coming from fund holders that they serve a T community foundation and then and then of 82% which I found this to be quite astounding, have opened up some kind of, um, collaborative, responsive fund. Bringing donors together to collectively give in a strategic way to be able to deploy philanthropic resource is where they're most needed during this time. And we have been one of those that has done that. Yeah, that

Patton:   7:13
incredibly nimble, I would say, given all the moving parts you had to assemble, we'll talk about that. What? What you have done here locally and quests for you locally, I realize, is a regional effort. It's not just Charlotte

Michael:   7:25
that's correct. Finished for the Carolina is in some ways missed, named because we don't serve the full two states of the Carolinas. We serve the 13 county area that is really metropolitan Charlotte. But for those of your local listeners, Teoh say to Rock Hill, South Carolina or Salisbury, North Carolina, that with greater community foundation, the greatest Charlotte community, a nation that just wouldn't sit so well so exactly we sit on the border, as Charlotte does, and so we served two states, 13 counties in those two states, and so we're foundation for the Caroline's. But we are working in those counties on and actually have some national programs as well that perhaps we'll talk about later. But mostly commune foundations are place based, and so were the greater Charlotte, uh, region. And the significant fund that uh was open first was for Mecklenburg County. And this came about before we were all sheltering in place when we began to see the huge decline in revenue. Resource is for the nonprofit community, and we had this conversation with Laura Clark at the United Way of Central Carolina's, and we decided it was a Friday before we were all completely sheltering in place, that we really needed to create a response fund knife, and we decided to do it in partnership between the foundation and the United Way. And then Saturday morning, when I was at home, I got a phone call from a major philanthropists who had the same idea and was enquiring as to how he might set up a response fund. And we said Thies, air great mind experiences. Here's Here's what we're talking about doing. And he decided this was Doug Lebda at LendingTree decided to join forces with us and the the fund was often running. So what is the Why is the funds so important? Now, I think is really important for your listeners to, I think, understand. And and I would say there are 33 things first. Yes, there's all the reduced revenues that nonprofits have at the same time in the human service industry with reduced resource is there, sir, they're seeing a huge increase in demand for their services now that they've experienced before drying in the great recession they have experienced before that what has happened that is so different this time is because of social distancing and sheltering in place. They are having to work differently. So you're having toe work differently. When you're resource is air down and the demands aren't, you are greater, and that trio of challenges has become huge. For instance, a food bank can't deliver food without handing the food from one person to another. Exactly. And yet we're social distancing, so you have to completely rethink how you do your business at a time that you have, uh, greater demands on. And so the fund was created to try to address those three things help nonprofits with ah resource is toe to take care of the reduced resource challenge. It is particularly targeted for those nonprofits who are seeing greater demand, and right now that is in the human service area. And then we're also funding things of had of helping groups to do things differently. For example, many on profits didn't even have the laptop capacity to have all their staff work from home with a laptop that each home good point. So those three things are what we're looking for. Two fund, not laptops specifically. But the idea of how do you do things differently when you can't work in your normal environment?

Patton:   11:38
That's, Ah, high intensity needs for sure. And you mention, Of course, Doug Lebda is generosity from his company and individual perspective. Have you found other folks rally with you? What has been the response as you created this fund and encouraged others to join?

Michael:   11:56
The response has been heartwarming. Lee, generous. It began with with Mr Lebda, City of Charlotte decided to match his gift with a $1,000,000 the very next day. Truest Corporation gave a $1,000,000 the county decided that they had a larger population city. So they did a per capita amount and they put 1.3 million in it. And then it just went from there the Spangler Foundation, Bank of America, so forth and so on. But because of our online donation portal, we also had, you know, $10 gifts. And so it's been a community wide, wide effort, and we're now up to 17 million, which is of the 82% of the community foundations that have done these funds. Ah, the 17 million puts us in a larger organization. This past weekend I had 12 colleagues on a zoom call just to kind of check in with one another and Seattle's. It's up to twenties, and now I feel in their in competition

Patton:   13:01
competition. Yeah, that's a competition. We all win the right. If there's that kind of generosity going on a

Michael:   13:07
stack exactly. Of course, I did point out to them that Seattle is the home base of the Gates Foundation.

Patton:   13:15
They do have some advantages up in the Northwest. Don't they talk about the relationship? You have obviously wonderfully generous but independent fund holders with the founders of the Carolinas. How have they responded? And what has been the kind of communication amongst that

Michael:   13:31
group? Yes. So some of the 17 million that, um have that donors have placed in the Cove in 19 Response Fund that we've organized within I way comes from our donor fund holders. We have about 3000 different fund holders at the foundation, their nonprofit fund holders, corporate and family fund holders. So it's been the corporate and family fund holders who have put money into the response fund in addition to donors who don't have funds or it will have private foundations have have joined us. But then we are also serving through our relationship managers on our team at the foundation with these fund holders to help them make grants not on Lee to the response fund, but but to specific charities that they want to help. During this time, no millions de dollars mawr have poured out, and we've made about another 175 grants from those fund holders, not to the response fund, but directly to the nonprofits. And this is a very important point. Uh, donors need across the country need to continue to give what they do annually to the organizations. They give it to a great point. And then, on top of that, we asked them to be even more generous by helping out with some of the critical needs. But if you start to take away the money that traditionally goes to non profits each year and you move it to just the crisis, then you create another crisis in another part of the nonprofit sector.

Patton:   15:10
Indeed, and are you seeing some fund holders may be relaxing their criteria for the distribution of funds or changing their timelines, obviously, to reflect the immediacy of this issue.

Michael:   15:21
In fact, just this morning I talked to ah, donor fund holder, who had decided to allocate all of the grants that they normally give out at the end of the county or in December to give to the groups that they have relationships with. Now in this in this time of greater need, when their resources air down. So that's an example of a timeline. Fantastic. Yeah, yeah, Michael, I also just wanted it just wanted to say Ah, patent that, you know, I mentioned that the foundation is regional. The Cove in 19 Response Fund that I was speaking to specifically at the 17 million that's Mecklenburg County alone. We also have, uh, cove in 19 response funds that have been created in other counties in our service area. That's not even a part of that 17 million. We are very decentralized Regional committee foundation. And so it's really up to the leadership of each of those counties to decide to open funds. And so we have had at least four counties now that have opened them and expect more will in the future.

Patton:   16:26
Excellent, because you're right is much as we have our challenges here in Mecklenburg County. As you well know, some of these rural counties they're gonna have even more challenges, aren't they? As they deal with issues that this situation creates?

Michael:   16:38
Yes. And I think you know the way the cove, it, um, viruses, you know, it's first in urban areas and van it's moving into rural areas. So I'm not sure that the more rural communities have yet had the impact that we have in the urban centers, and that's probably across the country.

Patton:   16:57
Indeed. Well, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask about something near and dear to your heart. the arts community, the arts and culture that is vibrant. You have contributed to it in so many ways. And before you got to the foundation for the Carolinas, what do you say to our friends that are running those types of nonprofits? Because this is obviously a difficult time for them as well.

Michael:   17:19
Yes, So this is particularly heartbreaking for me. You are right, Patton. You know me Well, we're good friends, but I I have a passion for the arts, and that's where my career actually started. And it is devastating to see what is happening in the arts community and particularly the performing arts community. Because without the ability to sell tickets sales dry and without the ability to have the fundraisers that are usually done in the spring by these culture institutions, they're taking a huge hit on the resource profile of their budgets. And I I worry about, uh, how long they can survive if the social distancing and the the rules that are so important. Now, keep up, as I think the health officials think that they should. There will only continue to be a decline in those revenue sources because you can't get together to go toe to go to a concert. So I'm not questioning the public health decision. But I do think we're going to have to figure out what to do about the culture institutions in a more strategic sense. When we get through this, they are allowed to come into the Kobe Response Fund. But they do not have the priority of the individual needs of people who need food and shelter and more basic basic needs. We have funded some of the culture institutions to bring some of their work today online for people who are sheltering in place to be a knife access. But again, the lens of the Kobe Fund is his basic need.

Patton:   18:57
Could you see kind of advanced or the next stage of these funds perhaps addressing broader non profit networks. No argument about the human, you know, services needs right now, but I'm sure you're thinking ahead too. 36 months from now on, organizations like the arts are gonna have a new set of challenges.

Michael:   19:18
Well, patent, this kind of takes us back a bit. If I may go there to an absolutely what we did in 2000 and eight, which I know you're familiar with. We had a similar economic crisis, although this is much more severe. Ah, we would say about Charlotte in its history that we were pretty much recession resistant. I wouldn't say we were recession proof, but we were recession resistant. Recessions would come and go around the country and we'd be pretty healthy. Well, in in 2008 we were at the very epicentre of the recession because we're a very strong banking community. As you know, the second largest banking community, United States would surprise everybody around the country. But that is true. And so so many of our employers are related to that industry. And we had double digit unemployment. So we launched what was then a critical need response fund, Um, similarly to what we have now. And it actually helped us know how to deploy this covert fund quite quickly because we have the learnings from that fund in 2008. In addition to that fund, though, after we got through the immediate crisis, we put together what was called the Catalyst Fund, and that was to help non profit organizations be able to retool themselves after the environment of the moment that they Ryan Crisis and just a couple of examples of what came out of that second fund was a complete restructuring of our library system, which you know is a public private partnership Indian. We find an entire study, have had a restructure of the library that was that was adopted by both the private parts of the library and the public. Parts of the library organizations merge. There were three organizations. For instance. We wish the Charlotte Emergency Housing and Family Promise, which merged into now. What is the Charlotte family housing, which has become a real leader in moving fragile families into permanent, affordable housing? And so there was a secondary fund at that time frame. It did help groups restructure for survival and for the new realities. To tell you the truth, while that's in the back of my mind, we are so caught up in the moment, we haven't had a chance to think ahead. But I can't imagine that is not gonna be the need for some kind of a similar fund like that to be able to help groups get out of the search. The circumstances that this thesis epidemic has created otherwise in the arts groups in particular, we're gonna lose,

Patton:   22:08
right? It's not just this critical time period of urgency, but it's gonna be the second phase. And I wonder if perhaps their silver lining and some of the investments you've made already of encouraging organizations toe have better virtual programming and the ability to adapt to this social distancing. Could you see that be some of the positive results if if there

Michael:   22:31
are such well, you know, for me, the glass is always half full old good. I do think that we will have so many lessons that have been learned. I mean, for instance, I don't know how many of your listeners knew about Zoom, but I didn't know about Zoom Way

Patton:   22:48
do now.

Michael:   22:49
I do now, and it has the the ability to move in that direction or directions like that as an outcome of this, I can see just like it cause universities found that both the residential experience is a value, but the online education can be a value as well. We will find in the greater nonprofit sector great learnings from this of how to use technology to enhance our work, even when we go back to our to our offices. So yes, I do see that a lot of changes in behavior my very well come from this. I

Patton:   23:34
assume you obviously you've adapted your staff in the communication channels from work from home. Are you seeing that amongst your boards? What's been their reaction to this kind of new style of communication and interaction?

Michael:   23:45
Well, it's been interesting to learn from my colleagues, and I don't mean my community foundation colleagues, but more of my colleagues and Charlotte in the nonprofit sector of how they're working with their boards and staffs. In our circumstance, Um, we are in much greater communication than we have ever been. And in part that's because we organized more frequent meetings through the technology than we normally do when when their office together eso. In some ways I'm Maurin touching my stand with my staff than I ever have been, especially since we go back to the beginning of the of our conversation. I'm not spending quite a much time externally. Ah are thinking about the future as I am now eso we have many more staff meetings through zoom or teams of these. These thes instead forms forms. Thank you. Thank you that we now have. Now some other nonprofits have been keeping in touch with their boards that way, through zoom or teens. We elected to go different in a different place with with our boards, because we're on the front lines and we're allocating so much money. And we're reviewing so many grants that were helping donors do what they need, what they need to dio. We're also helping nonprofits try to get through the care, Zack, you know, because that we're helping them with information to get to get through that, um, that we have kept the board informed by a weekly update of what we're doing. And so it begins with my kind of overview. And then my five direct reports through which all things flow each do three paragraphs from their home desk that I include in the email blasts that goes to ah, are full board. And frankly, in some ways, well, that's not through an interactive experience like zoom or teams. It is there now more knowledgeable about what we're doing on a weekly thing. That's

Patton:   26:15
kind of it's kind of a template. In other words, you've established kind of a weekly rhythm. Now to this type of information they're going to get,

Michael:   26:21
we have. And it was weekly. It was weekly until this week. And now we've decided to move to every two weeks because I wanted them to feel comfort that everything was under control. We're moving forward. We were up and running. We were thriving. We're helping carry out our mission. So it was weekly at first, and then we began to think that we were overwhelming them. So we're gonna move to two weeks, but we'll keep it at two weeks now, we have had some calls on a few items, not with the full board but with selected board members on some of the things that way are we are facing by a constellation of those board members we thought had the best brain trust on the idea. And we have also had some Elektronik votes. Now this is an example. I don't know if most of the full board electronic votes I don't know if most nonprofits have in their bylaws three ability to do electronic voting. Great. Oh, are not. But that may be another thing that comes out of this. In our case, Elektronik votes have to be unanimous by our by laws. So that means a great deal of prep work and making sure the written materials that go out are understood completely because electronic votes don't allow a lot of conversation. Other nonprofits are using Zoom, and they are, um, using those platforms to be in touch, as as full boards. We we are not doing that at the moment, but that doesn't mean before this crisis ends. That we won't

Patton:   28:00
right And Michael found into the Carolinas is, of course, is wonderful hosts to countless community events, nonprofit events, meetings and so forth, I guess. Are you having to start to evaluate whether and if they can become virtual activities? Or how are you and your team approaching, like so many nonprofits, the reality that we may not be a to meet in person for a while?

Michael:   28:25
Well, patent, you know us Well, you know that the foundation has, ah, 80,000 square foot building with 20 different boards and conference rooms and event spaces, and the last year, up until the epidemic, we were hosting 600 meetings and events per month. Wow and that reflects the, I think, the importance of civic engagement, civic leadership and people debating the issues and coming together. Teoh, Teoh create solutions. And I'm wrapping my mind when I have my few percentage time coins for thinking of the future, right, trying to wrap my mind around. Okay, if this is prolonged or if we have a second peak, right? Um, how do we engaged people in ways that we used to when we're sitting across the table? And so I think that coming out of this, we may also be discovering that there are ways to do that that maybe can even be easier than sitting face to face with one another. Now I will say we have thought about this before, but it still had a gathering aspect. For instance, as you know, contiguous to the foundation's headquarters is Ah, 1927 movie palace descending, and we are renovating that it continues to go on the construction workers air considered essential. And so it's it's but it's it's going up. It's It's concept was to be, ah, large civic engagement gathering place that could then have the debates that would happen in that theater broadcasts throughout our region that the technology is being designed so that you can watch it and you can comment in the comments that you make or can can be up on the theater walls and you can vote on subjects electrically, have that vote appear on the walls and

Patton:   30:27
very interactive, very interactive, very

Michael:   30:30
expending a lot of technology to place in that theater. And it was designed in a way to be able to engage people not just face to face, but it still was around a gathering of some people. So how do we move that conceptual framework? If people can't be gathering in groups more than 50 people at a time, I don't have an answer to it, but my rials, they're moving. Yes,

Patton:   31:00
it's great point. And I'm sure that would be the advice you would give to a nonprofit leaders everywhere that you, to the extent you have that percentage, as you described, a little bit of percentage to look ahead. While you're not putting fires out in the near term, that's I think the direction we're gonna have to go. Let me ask you this, Michael Cause, as a fundraiser yourself. Advice to the fundraisers out there who are perhaps tentative in their jobs now to ask for money. How do you approach that? Because I'm sure you're having some of the same delicate conversations with folks as well.

Michael:   31:34
So when you say tentative, tell me what you're what you're thinking, Patton.

Patton:   31:39
Fundraisers. A comments to me, or like Gosh, I just I'm not sure if I should be asking for money now under these broader circumstance, and

Michael:   31:48
yes, well, I think we I think I think we have to be very creative. Uh uh. First off, I would say that, All right, for those who have, ah, great means while they are compromised, to some extent, they still have great means. Exactly. And most of them are generous of heart. So I think we should be just as much an advocate for the needs of our communities across the country right now from those folks as we have ever been, if not more. I have never had anybody insulted for asking them for too much money. Yep. So I would encourage people toe, have the strength of confidence in the mission of your nonprofit, to to talk to people and to encourage them to keep giving. I think where we're more tentative is in folks that don't have, ah, great deal of financial resources. And there's where we may need to think most creatively. And I'll give you one example of a recent conversation I had. I had a conversation with one donor who is a very modest donor, not a fun holder at the foundation, but just someone who gives in the community relatively small amounts of money but amounts that are significant to the income level of this person. Well, this person happens to be under the annual income level for which you can receive the $1200 stimulus money. So she has received the $1200 to miss money from the federal government, and she has decided to give that $1200 away. Wow. So here's where. If you're a fundraiser, you can say, Well, you know, there's a a lot of folks that still have income, particularly in the retirement community. But not a lot of income that I met now may be able to talk to, because their income really isn't down. But now they have an extra $1200. They have to decide what to do with and which is different from someone who's unemployed and has to have that $1200 for, you know, for survival. So I don't have people across the country have fought about, you know, a campaign that says, Give this, give the stimulus All right, give your stimulus money away. And so I'm trying to think about Okay, maybe that's a way to rally our community for that, um, population of people that that $1200 is not a matter of survival. Um, but I would hesitate to call it a windfall, but no money that is not paying direct.

Patton:   34:48
Yeah, that's a great example of creativity and push. You indeed are sensitive to the reality of donor by donor, but there are, in fact, folks that have the generosity and the willingness, perhaps to do that if we given opportunity.

Michael:   35:01
That's correct. Now I do think this much as we can be resourceful and knowing the circumstances of an individual, I can understand why fundraisers across the country and I would be included among that group who would be tentative and asking somebody for money if they might be someone who has lost their job and we don't know it exactly. So that's where you have to be nimble and and you have to think it through. Um, and you have to try to know your donor as much as you can. And what we have done, at least with fund holders with our relationship management folks on our team, is where constant kind of being constantly in touch with them right now to see how they're doing and how we can help. And giving is such a social, uhm phenomena right that you you learn in those conversations how people are themselves. And if you're a good listener, which I think all fundraisers should be and your intent or high, you can find out whether this is going to be a call that just shows that you're reaching out to make sure that traditional donor is doing fine and caring about them, or whether or not you keep going and ask them for the gift.

Patton:   36:22
Absolutely, there's not. A one size fits all approach isn't there, and you're right. We need to utilize our listening skills and our intuition as to what's appropriate

Michael:   36:32
exactly, exactly.

Patton:   36:34
My your advice is fantastic. Across the board for fundraisers, executive directors. I want to circle back to one as we move to the conclusion here. The Catalyst Fund as an example, a decade or so ago should nonprofit leaders. Is this the time not to be premature but perhaps to consider alliances and partnerships that are out there? Because a lot of them I talked to now like you know, my strategic plans pretty much out the window. You know, there's just too much uncertainty, but my response is often well, maybe this is the chance to have some conversation with others serving the same population. You do, because maybe that does become a reality down the road. But I wonder what your thoughts are.

Michael:   37:17
Well, I would say we have ah ah, division of what not profits are facing along these lines. You have those nonprofits, which has we started out talking about, ah, high demand for their services. No time to think about the future, right? But there's a whole series of mine profits, from y M. C. A's to cultural groups to environmental groups to educational groups who may still be working but are not putting the show on this stage, right?

Patton:   37:56
Yeah, right.

Michael:   37:57
As in the case of performing arts group are not mounting an exhibition in the case of ah, of a museum or not able to be working with donor to conserve land for land conservation as an environmental group. These are the groups that I would really encourage to put that external future is thinking hap on to see how they come out of this, completely rethinking um, how they go about doing things, uh, with the new realities I'm I don't mean to imply that their not still running their shops, by my bet, is that they have more time to be future oriented than those that are on the front lines at the food shelter, for instance. Indeed, and so I would really encourage them to try to take this time to think strategically, Um, get it. Get a brain trust of volunteers and board members that you can be in touch with on some provocative questions or other like institutions in the community or around your country to begin to think about doing things differently than we have we have done before. It gets harder for this frontline organizations, uh, and yet those frontline organisations air having to collaborate more. It's right, and it may be that out of those collaborations, some light bulbs go off along the way that can have them think strategically about doing things differently.

Patton:   39:33
Very well put until you're right. Both sides of that division you mentioned those that are more active immediately still might come out of this with some new opportunity, as well as those that perhaps are a little bit in the background but should take advantage of this time as well. Exactly. Michael, this has been fantastic. Any final words of wisdom Teoh those nonprofit leaders out there? You certainly given them examples throughout our conversation. But any other parting thoughts for the nonprofit professional

Michael:   40:04
well, patent? I will. I will say this on a very personal note. I worry about those of us that are working so hard. The nonprofit sector, you know, the nonprofit sector really carries the torch for the community. The nonprofit sector is the heart of the community, and I worry about the mental health of all of us who are working so hard and compromise surface circumstances. And this is not just about adapting and adjusting to working at home. We're really adjusting to living at work. In other words, we're thinking of ourselves as working at home, but I don't know about everybody else but my time and distance and day and night. And it's all blurred,

Patton:   40:55
stressful to

Michael:   40:57
it's very stressful. And so I need I'm adjusting to living at work, and that's got its challenges. I shouldn't be living at work.

Patton:   41:09
Have you found any kind of self help ways to let off steam or just kind of give yourself some fresh air, so to speak?

Michael:   41:18
I did do some reading on, um, just some articles online about the experience of working from home. Of course, Now some people do that all the time. It's part of their job. Most people don't. And what I found that has been most helpful is, uh, building in brakes and making those breaks longer than they would have been and using particularly right now the nice weather toe walk and to get out. So a 15 minute break is now a 30 minute break, Brian, but out of the house and walk around the block, just clear the head. I have found that to be extremely important, and what I have learned is that while I'm in meetings all the time at the office or in the community, you know there's a little social time between a meeting or this walking from my building. Teoh a corporate building down the street on in Charlotte. You have. You have these little breaks that aren't even Calendar da's breaks, but they're little mental rests. Well, right now I've got my iPad up my laptop up my phone on. I've got zoom and conference calls and I go from one to another and everybody's do end and it's just overwhelming.

Patton:   42:39
Got to turn him off. We gotta turn them off. Don't get sometimes

Michael:   42:42
turn them off or you gotta walk away and get outside. And so that's just kind of a personal point for everybody that force yourself to give a little distance between each call or Exume or each conference call and and go outside for a little longer than you would if you were at work.

Patton:   43:03
Great advice, as I knew you would offer, and of course, you perfectly segue way to your parting gift to the audience of you mansion reading, which is something I am a big fan of and encouraged that and ask every guest. Give us some recommendations, Michael. What's on your shelf? So to speak that you might offer our friends were listening.

Michael:   43:23
Of course. I knew this was coming because this is your This is your This is This is like Jane Pauley on Sunday mornings at the end, she says are trumpet will sound or

Patton:   43:35
what? You know, predictable. At least I'm a little predictable here, right?

Michael:   43:40
No, but it is. It is Ah, lovely gift you give to all of us who? Listen, I'm so I actually So I was prepared for that question. So I have three and they're very different. Um, one of the most beautifully written. It's almost poetry, but it's a novel. It's fiction, but I think I've ever read that I would encourage people to read when you want to get away from work. And that's a book called All the Light. You cannot see all the light we cannot see. It's just a beautifully written book. Another one, I would say, is that that I'm in the middle of right now is called SAPIENs, and particularly for non profit people, you or anybody. But it's it's ah, it's a delve into what makes human society tick, Why we are the way we are, how were held together and when we're not held together. Why are we not held together? And it's a fast thing discovery about human nature. So that's just interest on it. Love that. You love that. It's an internal. I mean, it's into its not your easy

Patton:   44:47
light reading, is it? It's ready to read.

Michael:   44:51
Got ready to read now the one that, um, professionally, I always held Hold up and I and it's not recent Book was first published in 2000 for but of all the books I've read that have helped me most in my professional career and in 2017 on extended version of it was was published was a book called Is a book called The Blue Ocean Strategy and Excellent, You've probably heard of the patent. As I said it was first written 15 years ago, but it is Evergreen, and the fact that he updated the two authors updated in 2017. It it's just really brings everything from me about the thought processes that are necessary to be on the cutting edge and the and the forefront of whatever nonprofit industry that you're in. The book actually gives examples of nonprofits and of corporations and why they are in what? This is what they call this Blue ocean, where your out in front of everybody and you're kind of leading the way rather than in the back. And I that book I go back to all the time,

Patton:   46:05
that's a wonderful recommendation. Thank you for adding to our virtual or are actual libraries. And as you have recommended, we all probably need to unplug a bit and read things like that to get a little bit of relief from this situation we're in right now.

Michael:   46:23
The patent. I want to say thank you to you because, you know, your, um, track record doing these podcasts is is quite extensive. And there received so well and I'm just honored that you asked me to do this one.

Patton:   46:37
Well, Michael, the feeling is mutual. Thank you very much for your time and advice for joining me on the path. And perhaps we can do this again someday.

Michael:   46:45
Plowed. Look forward to it. Take

Patton:   46:46
you Well. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Michael as much as I did, and came away with some practical ideas that you can share with your team, your board and perhaps even your funders. Don't forget the show notes available on our website patent McDowell dot com, where you can find more about the Cove in 19 Response Fund that Michael and I discussed as well as that trio of book recommendations, Michael suggested. If you enjoy this conversation, please share the episode with someone else on the path. If you haven't already, consider subscribing by going to the podcast page also at pat McDowell dot com, and you'll see links to Apple podcast Spotify and other platforms. You don't want to miss out our weekly episodes and certainly not bonus episodes like the one today. Thanks for all you're doing in the nonprofit sector, especially right now, and keep up the good work for causes that are most meaningful to you. I'll keep bring you content that can help you do it even better. Have a great week and I'll see you next time on the path