36: Fortune 500 to Nonprofit Founder & CEO (Tina Admans)

spk_0:   0:03
Welcome to your path to nonprofit leadership, the weekly podcast that features the very best in productivity and career development in the nonprofit world. I'm your host patent McDowell, and I'm happy to help you on your journey towards senior leadership in the charitable sector. I bet you or someone you know is thinking about moving from for profit to nonprofit. And in fact, I've got a great conversation to share with you this week from Tina Add Mons, who has navigated that exact journey. When she moved to Los Angeles nearly 20 years ago, she could have absolutely remained on the very successful path she was on and finance and management at G E Nbcuniversal in Panavision. But she knew there was something calling her something missing. And nonprofit leadership was, in fact, the answer. Her story provides such a good breakdown of how you might analyze nonprofit leadership and when the right opportunity in fact presents itself and, in her case, what made her jump on the opportunity to actually start a new organization called Minds Matter in Los Angeles, she talks candidly about the challenges of starting an organization, developing a board of directors and certainly fundraising that was all required on her journey. She also applies her business acumen to the strategic planning challenges we all are facing right now, and I'm sure you'll take away ideas that can help you in your current nonprofit leadership. Don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode Number 34. Just go to the podcast or the news page at patent McDowell dot com, and you'll find all of the resource Is and topics and books, as well as more information on Tina in the great work she's doing at mines matter in Los Angeles. Without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Tina Admin Tina, thank you for joining me on the path.

spk_1:   2:10
I'm thrilled to be here and thank you for asking me.

spk_0:   2:13
Well, I'm excited to have this conversation. I know we have listeners to our in perhaps a similar situation that you were before your nonprofit journey started, or they know people that are pondering. Um, having been in the for profit sector may be thinking about nonprofits, so I'm excited to learn more about your journey. Somebody maybe start with that, Tina, tell us, how did you get on this nonprofit path

spk_1:   2:39
coming out of college. I went right in the corporate world. Didn't even think twice about it. Um, it was very successful and went from job to job, and I've loved what I did. I was thrilled by the challenge and thrilled frankly, from the skills of it was learning, but kind of got to my mid forties and frankly, just still kind of felt empty, Um, and really wanted to find something that fueled my heart as much as it was helping me build skills and, you know, find new experiences. So I did something completely crazy for me. Um, time, which was kind of walked away from a corporate job with no idea of what the heck I was going to do next. I just I knew I needed a break. Um, and I took a break. I did it for a good really didn't do anything for a good six months. Besides, like, reconnect with me and what was important to me and, you know, did some self reflection on looking at the variety of different jobs that I've had. Won't say I had a fairly typical career, right and loved, you know, there was a couple of key themes, you know? And it was building teams, you know, building community. It waas leadership, you know, both trying to become a better leader as well as helping others, you know, really discover, you know, the leadership in them. Um and I knew I really wanted to get back toe my community in some way. So, frankly, I did what Tina would typically do, which is I started doing some research, you know, to really investigate how different nonprofits worked. And frankly, what waas what spoke to me on I kind of had a hint that it was gonna be education, right? That was something that was always really important in my family.

spk_0:   4:42
I was gonna ask you, teen if you I mean, you gravitated to nonprofits in general, but it But it was education in particular that you probably had a hint that you go in that direction.

spk_1:   4:51
Yeah, and and some of it was, you know, I'm number five out of six in my family on my you know, my grandparents came over directly from Austria on, even though we didn't. I didn't grow up with any money and didn't realize later that yes, technically, I was low income, but I never felt that way. Uh, but I always knew that I was going to college. Like from it was just never an option. So when I started, kind of, you know, talking to different people. And I was talking toe, you know, friends and co workers and stuff like that about you know, just what they saw in the world and what was happening. And, you know, and maybe it's because it was my group of friends, but it just kept reinforcing for me education and the fact that college is not necessarily a go to for many students. And that especially if you are first generation, like, who do you turn to in order to be able to figure out? I mean, I speak English. I've always spoken English, and I look at some of those financial aid applications and I can't even make

spk_0:   6:04
it hard to translate even if you speak the language.

spk_1:   6:07
So I mean, you know, some of the financial aid letters where it's like I have no idea what they mean by substantiated or unsubstantiated debt on I'm a finance person. And then I kind of stumbled on an organization and I little aiming patent stumbled on it. Like

spk_0:   6:26
I was gonna say, I remember you told me previously, but it wasn't like you were well aware of this organization, were you?

spk_1:   6:33
No. I happen to be watching channel surfing a little bit and landed on this woman that was talking about this organization that she mentored with Andi. They kept cutting Teoh some of her students that we're talking about, you know, the kind of impact that she's had on their lives. There was something in it that just so resonated with me that I was like, huh? OK, let me log on, you know, did some research. And lo and behold, there was nothing in l a, um on. So I reached out to him, basically had a great conversation because it was a couple of things that really like I knew I really wanted to work with teens. No, like that age group. Yeah, they could be difficult at times, but just all the growth and exploration that they're going through and being able to be a small part of that and being ableto to even begin conversations around leadership. And what does that mean for you on helping them. It might be the first time for many of them to even think of themselves as the leaders. It was really attractive to me from that point of view, right then I laughed because I started to better understand, like, who? Who we target is being mentors. And I was like, Oh, I'm a little too old for

spk_0:   8:01
that. Well, it's a state of mind. No Tina, right,

spk_1:   8:07
But and I get it. And it was it completely is a state of mind because then as we kind of work through it. So basically, the organization came back to me and said, Hey, would you like to actually start the L A chapter? I laughed because I started. How did we get from helping out to starting it, you know, But I have since realized patent that I tend to. If I hear a great idea, I'm going to jump in with both feet. Sometimes when I'm in it, it takes me a while to figure out, and I have my little freak out moments where I'm like, 00 okay, What did I get myself into? But I think in particular for this initiative because I had all of the corporate experience, frankly, being able, understand, process, being ableto you know, my background is finance. So, you know, none of the financials, you know, scared me in the lace, but, um, organizational structure and really beginning to think about that, you know, doing vision planning on, you know, strategy and that sort of stuff. So

spk_0:   9:20
that was all in your wheelhouse. Wouldn't know that that was not a problem.

spk_1:   9:24
So there was a comfort level there. Um, the discomfort was a couple of places, you know. One was just okay. I have actually never been to a minds matter program, so I don't even know what you do on Saturdays, you know? And how do I How do I get that depth of knowledge? Uh, and they helped me a lot there because basically, they connected me with former volunteers. It happened to be in l. A. So we were able to build, you know, a really dynamic small team. Um, and then some of it a little bit was fundraising. Ha.

spk_0:   10:05
Yeah, I definitely went on pack that one. Yeah. Speaking of a headline, right.

spk_1:   10:10
And then I would say the third thing was you know, this concept of a frankly board of directors and what are they? What do they do? I mean, I'd read about it, but, you know, that was not something that I had had any experience with, so it was kind of Look, I'm

spk_0:   10:29
sorry interrupt you. I can't wait to unpack all three of them because you just nailed the Triple Crown. I think of nonprofit leadership and how you've managed it and managed it very well. I might add. Let me ask you a question. For our listeners that aren't familiar with mines matter. What was the scope of the organization nationally at the point when you arrived?

spk_1:   10:48
We actually so it is a national organization. We currently have 14 chapters. At the time that we were starting up, which was 10 years ago, National had actually Onley existed for about six or seven months. Um, it had the organization had grown very organically. We were the seventh chapter. Frankly, the other six chapters had all been started buying mentors or other volunteers that had moved from New York to another city were inspired to basically start their own chapter. So there wasn't, you know, we did get some structure. And basically, if you think about it, it was almost like a binder of best practices. Yep. But it wasn't something. Not you could literally turn around and then go, OK, I know exactly what I need to do. You know, there was a lot of investigation on our own end and, frankly, a lot of experimentation, you know, way coined a new phrase. Um, we use it a lot. It's Oh, there was a good idea gone.

spk_0:   11:56
So there was not a detailed operations manual. Is that fair to say?

spk_1:   12:00
That's fair to say. You know, there were

spk_0:   12:03
created it.

spk_1:   12:04
We we've created it, you know. And again, there were building blocks there. Um, they had a calendar. So we had a general idea of how think of the year was supposed to go on. And what were some of the key elements? I think some of the things that were missing and again, if I think back to my corporate was, you know, what was the overall vision for the students, You know? What were we hoping? Not through our program, they would achieve, slash attain um I mean, it's obvious way are a tutoring and mentoring program that takes high achieving low income students and helps them get into college. So, yes, that's the ultimate vision for it. But it's so much beyond that. It's, you know, how do you How do you holistically approach that student s? So how do you deal with the social emotional challenges that can derail them just as easily as the financial just as easily as the academic? So it's it is much more than just saying, You know, hey, our job is done when they get into college, you know

spk_0:   13:09
the point. Good point, well in in Tina Fey and go back to Obviously you had a great set of skills coming from your corporate America training. Um, are there particular skills in terms of organizational management? I ask all of my nonprofit leader guests. How do you manage this multitude of of activities that are coming at you? And I'm guessing you brought some great skills in that regard. But how would you speak to that in terms of advising other nonprofit leaders in terms of staying organized?

spk_1:   13:44
No, I think there's a couple three things that really saved me. Um, I think first and foremost and again, we just him to explain. You know, we only have one paid position. Um, we are very volunteer driven, right, um, so ability to be able to really build a strong team and create a shared vision and then basically get out of people's way, um is a critical first skill, like as a CEO that you could be all over everything if kind of. If you are, then something's missing. My strength is in operations. It's in process. It's in team building. So that's naturally where I gravitated to, Um and I think for the first couple of years, that is where you need to be focused on because getting not up and running to where you can. I feel comfortable that the quality of the program is being delivered consistently. Um, that you have the right team employees. You're capturing the right metrics on your you're building a culture in the organization of of learning and Growth. And again, coming back to the well, that was a good idea. Gone bad, like you really have to. You have to give yourself permission to not have everything go right. I mean, you just do, especially in our all volunteer. You could lay out a whole bunch of goals. Um and that could either be very de motivating because you may only reach half of them, right? Be incredibly inspiring, depending on how your perspective is on. So you look at what you were able to achieve. Um, and you celebrate that, Brad, and looking at what you are not able to, um, so think team building is very critical. And then I'm I'm a process kid. So how can you create processes so that if you lose volunteers, the organization does not suffer?

spk_0:   16:02
Good point. The continuity, I guess of the program

spk_1:   16:05
and that you don't have, frankly, somebody walking out the door that, you know, has all the information around the sophomore program walking with them Great appoint. You know, we used G suite. You know, we again experimented with a bunch of others and g suite Google sweet just works really well for us because communication is another key thing on making sure that everybody's on the same page. Um, and marching in the same direction is critical. Um, you know, and then I think it's, you know, overall project management skills. I think with any nonprofit because there's there is everything from operations to, you know, again, staff development. Um, for you know, those I think every non profit has combination of volunteers and staff. Um, you you have that relationship, frankly, with a governance board that you have to work on, and then you have all your other constituents in that for us. That's everything from how are we developing relationships with schools in order to get a pipeline of students to How do we develop relationships with no corporations in order to be ableto attract mentors? Um, to, of course, you know, institutional and individual donors. So there's a lot of different pieces, but it

spk_0:   17:34
did,

spk_1:   17:35
you know, from again from a CEO. And this is not something This is something I'm still absolutely learning, but it's really trying to figure out where you spend your day. Um, and asking yourself is what I'm doing right now. Could it be done by somebody else? Should be done by somebody else. If Yes, let him do it. Um, if if you are the right person to be doing at, is this the right time to do it? No. Um um and I actually was It was beautiful. I was listening to some of your podcast before, and I don't remember who it was. But you know, something as simple as you know. She suggested she's like, I have certain time chunks in my calendar that everybody knows are sacred

spk_0:   18:23
right out of

spk_1:   18:24
my, you know, outreach to the external and relationship building hours. And I was like, You know, it That is so brilliant and so powerful. Um, so I think you know, it's a variety of different things for me. I'm a list maker. I just am, um I giggle because I do not know how the world existed before. Post it notes. Indeed I do. I mean, I read things and I write it down stuff like that. And, um, so I keep him, you know, kind of a master running lives. But then I've gotten much more disciplined with myself to kind of say okay, but what is it that needs to get done this week? Right again, being very conscious about, um, would what needs my time right now? Um, versus what can basically go away. Um, Andi being able to stay focused even when things pop up. Um and frankly, the only thing patent is also being very open about things like we're in a situation where, you know, normally our students would go away for summer programs. Obviously, we cannot do that right now, so we're trying to figure out What do we do with these students over the next? You know, over the summer, we know we can't mimic what they would have gotten at the college, you know, experience. But we still want still want to challenge him. We still kind of want to get him out of the comfort zone. But for right now, as I said to my team, I'm like, I can't focus on this right now I said, I know that's incredibly on settling because it's so up in the air and they want to make their students and the mentors comfortable. And I said, I just can't do it right now. I said, Can you give me till next week? And then we can all work around this together and they were like, Okay, that's good. It's It's being up front. It's being open and communicating what's happening, as opposed to thinking that a you got to figure it all out or be that, you know? Well, they don't want to be bothered with that. It's like they're your team. So bring him in, you know, and help them. Big part of the solution.

spk_0:   20:51
It's great Vice, Tina and ah, And I'm sure some of those things Not that you didn't have them at the outset of your nonprofit journey, but I'm sure you've cultivated those skills and styles. And I guess the culture you built with your team, I'm I guess going back to your arrival a decade or so ago. Two minds matter in Los Angeles. Um, you listed a few things that were maybe new and different, given your experience, the for profit sector. Um, what were the challenges initially, I guess in some ways, every I'm guessing every direction you looked required activity, but you mentioned fundraising and board development. I know. Among several How'd you attack those two things?

spk_1:   21:36
You know, looking back, um, you know, I worked with the lawyer, you know, to get us incorporated. All that and she was wonderful and really helped us. And I said, OK, now what do I need for award legally and she's like, Okay, you need to other positions. My great. So I literally went back to mind him, His dear friend, but the former boss of mine from NBC, he was my CFO. Good. Yep. Absolutely. He said I just want to be really clear, though. I don't do fundraising. I'm like, No, I don't need you to do that. I just need you toe he on board and basically take care, you know, have, ah, financial oversight. Says,

spk_0:   22:15
what's the numbers warming, right? Yeah.

spk_1:   22:17
Yeah, on. Then we basically we're working with, um, a professor at USC. And so again, logically, I was like, Oh, that would be great, because she's got such expertise on, um, inside frankly into this space that I don't come from an education background. Perfect. And then, frankly, national help those Because again, there was a couple of volunteers, um, that were instituted. And so one had been a mentor and team laden program had in New York, you know? So he joined my my board. Um, it waas, except like I and I do. I just give all Sometimes when I think about it, um, like, I e even used to cancel like, board meetings because, frankly, I just I haven't figured out like what the board was supposed to do and right, you know, there's sometimes where I'm like. OK, well, I just I'm updating them, but not so it took me a good 5 to 6 years you dio and talking to other people, you know, frankly, just hopping into my network to kind of go, OK, what does a board dio and hide even other chapters? And, um and so way started to change about five or six years ago and basically said, No, this needs to be a fundraising board, This union. Um, because I think with a some of the earlier chapters, it was a natural progression that you you kind of become a volunteer in a mentor. You might come on as a program had, and then, you know, quite often you would Then you become part of the governance board and said the young, um, boards, Um whereas for me, I looked at it eventually have, like, you know what I I need to surround myself A with people they're smarter to than me number two people that are as passionate about this mission, but in a different way. In the sense of like they're not gonna give up corporate job and come and do this, but they so believe in what we're doing that they're naturally going to be our advocates and our ambassadors. So I don't care if they're sitting in, you know, at a corporate meeting or something like that. And I want them toe to be comfortable And frankly, did understand that their role is to talk about minds matter, you know, when it's appropriate and you know, as often as they possibly can. Um and then really, the shift is now is you know, because we're moving from I would say I started up, you know, Teoh a fairly, you know, middle of life organization. And when I say that like we want to grow, we want to serve more students and in order to be able to be done, you know, we need a deeper fundraising capacity in our board. So

spk_0:   25:21
did you dial up the job description, so to speak? How did you or did did natural transition of board members allow you toe kind of recruit a different type of board member?

spk_1:   25:32
Yes. Um, we we had one really dynamic gentleman and then broad in another one. And those were my two fundraising powerhouses. Um, Andi, he had to step back. So then we had the one and she was awesome. And she introduced us to a number different institutions and stuff and actually help. Just think about, you know, who should even be on the committee looking at board recruitment, you know, actually asking, um, some of our partners, you know, where we're like. Listen, can we tap into your network? You know, because they were so passionate because obviously they're frankly funding us. So helping us to build out aboard is another way that, you know, they could make a difference for us. So, um and it's it's a really interesting process because we're small board. So it's supercritical that, frankly, people get along with each other because their hands on like, you know, we had a 2.5 hour board meeting last night and watching the dynamics, though, and who picks up on different things and how it's almost like you're casting, but in a good way, like you're thinking about, you know? OK, these two or three have really strong skills over here. These, you know, two or three have really strong seals and a complimentary, you know, So you're constantly kind of reassessing and trying to figure out where your gap is. Um, and somebody shared with me early on, and I just love thinking about it. But, like the three W's like you're gonna have people on your board that are more workers. You have deep fundraising capacity, but they're willing to just roll up their sleeves and do whatever they need. Teoh. You know, um, a lot of those, frankly, are volunteers that have been with us, you know, that really want, you know, experience on the governance board. And so it's incredibly useful when we start talking about like, operational things, because they're people there that have lived it, which is great. Then there's people that bring wisdom, and that might be really depth of expertise in the area that you're in. Um, and then the last one is wealth on getting comfortable being up front with people and saying, Yep, my given get might be acts, but this is really what we're looking for in terms of our our board in our governance board and and if you're not comfortable with that That's totally fine. Let's have a different conversation about how you might be able to get back to the organization.

spk_0:   28:18
Excellent. You could still volunteer right there. The ways to help or be involved.

spk_1:   28:22
Yes, you know, there's a ton of different ways, but I think and some of this it's coming from a point of, I think, before I would come from a point of scarcity. And some of it is no, you're a volunteer organization and you early on a number of people would say to me like, You know what? You just have to accept it because you know they're volunteer, so just figure out a role for them on, and that's the wrong way to approach it. Good. If that was a for profit, that's basically saying, Hey, anybody that walks through the door, you have to hire them and you'd never do that. So why in a non profit? But it took a while for me to kind of get there on. We're still working on that with my team to kind of say, Listen, if we come from a point of abundance, then we're gonna find the right person that's gonna be the team late. You know, we're gonna find the right person for that role way. We do not need to basically compromise, because at the end of the day, every single individual is either gonna add to or subtract from our culture and what we dio. So we want to make sure that everybody's attitude, um, for those that aren't we're gonna figure out a graceful way toe, you know, have them exit the organization.

spk_0:   29:46
So we'll put Yep,

spk_1:   29:47
And it's, you know, it's the same thing with the board. You know where you really have to have those and and again I'm still learning and growing into this because we've had a good board, you know, for a number of years. But it never struck me. This kind of comes back to the fundraising thing exactly like I I focus so much on building the community of mines matter. You knew, and that's the students and it's their families. And it's the volunteers. Um, it's really powerful and strong, and it's one of the things I'm most proud of. But yet I never looked at it to say, but that's the same thing I need to be doing, you know, with the governor's board and with all of our, you know, our financial supporters as well. Um, and I that was fear on my part because that was the one area and all of my corporate jobs that I've never really been exposed to. I had never been like, never did a business development job. Never really supported sales use. A front end was clouded in mystery in some ways and negative connotations of any

spk_0:   31:10
Exactly. You are thrilled when you arrived in the job, fundraising was not Oh, you were excited about. But you've evolved, though I know quite a bit.

spk_1:   31:21
Yeah, And it's just that word fundraising, I think for me and maybe for others, you don't just have such a can negative, like

spk_0:   31:31
connotation is not always positive, is it?

spk_1:   31:33
Yeah. I can't ask people for money. Oh, my God. You know Baba and right, You know, when? So we made a change in the organization, you know, And so and I realized it, too, that my focus needs to change, you know, as we are wing on, you know, evolving. You know, 68 of 70% of my time needs to be focused externally, you know, thing. You know, those deep relationships with institutions, individuals, corporations. Um, and that terrified me. Like we I even fought with the board. I was like, You need to hire somebody else. It

spk_0:   32:19
is. How'd you get comfortable with it? Yeah, you're your own board. I mean, you told your board find somebody else, but they said no. You're the right person, Tina. Then get comfortable.

spk_1:   32:31
It was six weeks of really discomfort 6 to 7 weeks of grilled discomfort. And I actually had just a really dear friend who has known me for years finally sit me down and you know, she didn't really smack me, but in so much spoke really drug Lee and said, You know, one of the strengths that have always known in you Tina, is your ability to build a team, you know, to build community. She's like, I've seen it over and over. It was what you did. A corporate America is what you do. And she said, but for some reason you're hung up on this word fundraising, she said. So stop thinking of it. Is fundraising it fundraising and think of it as building community with donor base.

spk_0:   33:20
Such a good perspective. Yes,

spk_1:   33:23
it was. It was life altering. I mean, it just It was that simple shift of perspective where I was like, Well, I could do that. And she said, Any time you talk about the organization, just like you light up, she said, You just every ounce of you is passion about it. And she said, So whenever you're talking to anybody, you just have to be prepared to answer the question. How can I help? Because it's going to come, and so long as you have that there is no awkwardness. There's no, you know, it's just who you are. And and if you focus on the relationship building and not the transaction, you're gonna be just fine. Yeah,

spk_0:   34:11
you go serve more students, right? It's all about the students you're tryingto served.

spk_1:   34:14
It's exactly it, you know, And it's It's such a powerful lesson now for me because it's, you know, it's the smallest things, too, like sending a personal email, you know, picking up the phone, you know, like when we had the fires, you know, a couple of our donors were living right there, and it was just a matter of like, here. You guys. Okay?

spk_0:   34:37
Well, no,

spk_1:   34:39
it's helping them know that you care about them as people. The the money is is second there. You know, it's like you really want that relationship, and you really, you know that you're stronger together. And so my job is being creative in terms of how to come up with different ways to be stronger together, you know? Oh, well, this is really important to you. You know, this is one of your corporate goals, and here's what we're trying to do. So if I can align knows, then you've gone again. A deep, lasting relationship, Not not a sponsorship for an event. You know that if the, you know the next year they go, yeah, well, we don't have the budget for it, So

spk_0:   35:25
we'll move somebody else, right? Cause it's a transaction in kratom direction or not.

spk_1:   35:30
But it, you know, coming into the non profit world. I mean, in the back of my head, I was like, Oh, I can't hire somebody to do that or

spk_0:   35:39
right, right,

spk_1:   35:40
or even like with the board, like I was like, Wow, that's what the board does. But I don't think I fully understood well the board can do it. But the board can only do it with guidance.

spk_0:   35:51
They need you, right?

spk_1:   35:53
They do need, you know, the CEO. They need to kind of go here. The areas, you know don't. I need you to work to own and let's sit down and talk about what that looks like. You know, um and that wasn't something that I was doing before, So it's it's still absolutely terrifying. Let me tell you, it's also and he was just rating, you know, this one author and it's like But I also know I'm growing because it terrifies me. And so I'm like, OK, and that's what I think is really fun in some ways, because I can't stand up in front of a bunch of students and basically say, Hey, growth happens when you're out of your comfort zone and not look in the mirror and say, Uh huh, And what doing

spk_0:   36:42
applies here, too? Doesn't it?

spk_1:   36:44
Yeah, you know. So it's

spk_0:   36:46
that's such a good story teen I met Well, we'll talk about the current situation from which I know is exceptional. But in recent years, so have you found a rhythm of of 50 60 even 70% of your time being external. Or I guess that is that always kind of a tug of war between all the things you're trying toe to manage.

spk_1:   37:06
You know, it's a bit of a tug of war right now, but, um, that's because we're actually in a transition point. So we're actually hiring another role of director of programmes roll Nice. That exactly like if I had that person right next to me right now, I'd be like, OK, here. Like it's your job to figure out what we do with these students and how to give him, you know, some incredible experiences over this summer, given our current limitations, right? I don't have that right now, So But the thing that I'm happy about is I also recognize it in myself, you know, like, it's now become part of my nature where I'm like No. Okay, I know I have to dive down into operations a lot more, you know, to make the transition to virtual. That's perfect for a couple three weeks. And now it's like, Okay, now pick your head back up. What are we doing from the donor point of view? How are you communicating with them? You know, how you bringing them into this decision process, you know, and helping them understand that you're still going, you know? So that's what I'm thrilled with. So it may not be ableto spend the kind of time, but I am still carving out time to do that. And I recognize them. No, this is the perfect thing. And why we're hiring that role is Mr That. Not I'm It's less of a battle. Yeah. So

spk_0:   38:36
I'm impressed with your agility. Given the current situation, it sounds like that's was what I was going to ask you about. How are you managing this? You know, unprecedented time, period. And how you are. Are you able to look ahead? A lot of nonprofit leaders. I talked to her life. Yeah, strategic plans got out the window. Right now. I'm just trying to figure out the next 90 days. But how have you and your team and your board kind of looked at short term and perhaps longer term planning?

spk_1:   39:05
It's, You know, the first thing I would have to say is I have such an amazing set of volunteers. I mean, in the midst of all this negative. Like we've had so much creativity. Patton. Like Lily one weekend off. Um, a small group volunteers basically that, you know, had technical expertise evaluated different virtual solutions, came up with, you know, we decided on Zoom, built out a user guide and basically got all the students and the volunteers comfortable with it. So that little by the next weekend, we were now virtual anomaly.

spk_0:   39:50
That's impressive.

spk_1:   39:52
And and again, we're volunteers. So in the middle of them doing this with their own jobs in their own lives, they're taking the time to figure out Hajto hot. It can keep the consistency in the quality of what we do in place, but just suggested virtually so. We had instructors. Frankly, you were taking Webinars about how to do virtual learning and being engaged. We shifted. Normally, we do what we call a great debate, but trying to do traditional debate is really hard. Virtually so. We change the program, and it's now called the Great Change agents. So students are individually working on different topics and different, um, Frank, the issues in the world, you know, that they're passionate about, and they're now gonna present it so it it has been so impressive to just watch them, you know, changed like we re adjusted and normally would do an open house because we're in student recruitment right now. We'd have students come in. We did it virtually on reaction. Laughed about it afterwards, we said, Yeah, I think that actually worked better than what we would normally

spk_0:   41:12
dio. I wonder if they'll be lessons from this, you know, current situation that might apply longer term.

spk_1:   41:21
It definitely is going to expand our ability to be able to connect, you know, in ways that we wouldn't have imagined. And so, um, like, we'll probably still do our traditional open house and have students come in. But we absolutely will also then schedule a zoom session where they can in small groups of four or five, interact within alone so that they can really get a better idea of. Is this the right program for me? Am I willing to make this kind of commitment? Um, and that also allows us, frankly, Teoh utilize our Lums that are on these coast because when we did are virtual open house. Now I have a student at Carnegie Mellon and another one at Colgate that were part of the open house.

spk_0:   42:06
Wow.

spk_1:   42:07
We wouldn't have been able to do that if we if we kept it. You know, our traditional way, so really powerful for us. And like, we're doing virtual alumni events Now on, we just really hit us that we said, Oh, this is beautiful. We could schedule days, frankly, once 1/4 do it on a Sunday, you know, midday And whoever wants to can come on. And it's just a way for them to touch base and connect on and recognize that there still a community behind them, you know, and recognize that they're not the only ones going through this. Um, so sure there's a Thanh that we miss. And don't get me wrong. I I absolutely think that the reason why it's working so well is because we have such a foundation of trust with our students Done

spk_0:   42:58
right.

spk_1:   42:59
It was okay, you know, to kind of do it. And they they were like, Okay, we're with you. Um, as we begin, Teoh think about you. New growth and long term, you know, we're just starting those conversations of okay. What would it look like if in the fall we're still doing this virtually. Exactly. How would we bring on a new class? You know, when we don't have that ability, um, on. We're getting creative there, you know? And that's basically what our focus is going to be. You know, we finish up with our sessions middle of May, you know. So normally, what we do is our volunteer based You kind of gets the summer off. Um, but seeing is home right now. We can't really go anywhere. We're doing a couple of things. We're actually gonna were gonna kind of move into our planning for next year earlier than we normally would like. Well, just slide right into it and do a debrief of this year. What worked? What? Didn't know what's worked. Virtually what we like to change, Um, and then really begin to brainstorm. Okay, we know what we dio. If we're in person, that one, we've got pretty well, but how would we a justice if it was now a virtual world, you know, like, is it? Yeah. Do we send care packages to that to the homes of the students we choose? You know, said that there's really something fun, You know that they get to open That says, welcome to minds matter. Um, you know what? What other things, you know, like, do we do we drive around to their houses and do you like a little mini parade or whatever that welcomes? You know, like, we're gonna think about different ways, because the strength of what we dio Yes, the academics is awesome. The summer programs are awesome. S a T prep is awesome, but it's the community, you know. It's the it's the recognition from a student of they're not in this alone. You knew that they can turn to any one of us and ask for help. So trying to figure out how to create that, um, virtually is gonna be difficult, But But I love it. I think, you know, going back to like, the fundraising. Yeah, you know, were we're gonna have our revenue plan for next year, probably for, like, the next 15 months. You know, by the middle of may, you know, and really talk about it as a board because institutions are having a tough time. He doesn't

spk_0:   45:42
ask you how our donors responding Now, Tina, you're getting and that a lot of good causes in l a lot of a lot of needs or they're responding,

spk_1:   45:51
um, on we've hade, you know, we have not done a a formal outreach, you know, were very much, you know, it's that soft of, you know, here's here the challenges that our students and our families are up against. No, and it's I'm looking at it right now. Is is more of helping our donor base. It's not that they don't understand, you know, the economic divide and the equity divide. I mean, they do. But this crisis has made it so front and center. That is almost shocking. Um, you know where if you've got multiple siblings in at home and there might only be one laptop and so they're trying to figure out like, Oh, you do your homework here, I do mine here, you know, like that's crazy, right? If the only time that you have access to the Internet is on your phone, there's no way you could do a college level course I'm on, you know, um, on how do you you know, that's a very different experience, you know, that they're having frankly than their, you know, middle and and upper economic peers are, you know. So, um, how do we help them become comfortable? How do we help them? You know, And again, this goes back to the holistic approach because some ways academics takes a back seat in the short term, it's how do we help them process all the very conflicting emotions? And how do we help them learn to motivate themselves and to stay focused on their education amongst all the insanity that's around them? Um,

spk_0:   47:39
well put.

spk_1:   47:41
It's not easy, you know, So

spk_0:   47:43
but I love the fact I love the fact. But you're gonna take advantage of the creativity and talent amongst your team and volunteers, aren't you? That's

spk_1:   47:50
what on and, you know, with our donor base to, you know. And I had a conversation with PWC yesterday, and one of the things that we're looking at is hey, you know, this does highlighted technology difference. Let's see if we can work together on digital fitness for our students and how do we begin while they have more time to introduce them to different things? Because those skill suds is what employers are looking for. Meaning out and, frankly, they don't get a lot of that. It's not like they're high schools have three D printers. They're you know, it's not like there's artificial intelligence labs in their high schools, you know, But that's kind of a neat way toe, you know, to partner with a company. Knew. And how do we same thing with our loans. You know, how do we take it a notch differently for them and maybe even pair them up with some folks at PWC, you know, so that they can You really look at it and work with that student? Kind of say, listen, okay. You're coming out of college. You need to be aware of this, you know? Or you need to be aware of, you know, again, just comfortable with the language. So that is your asking questions of employers and stuff like that,

spk_0:   49:01
Right? Right.

spk_1:   49:02
You could do that. So, um, it's every day is different in it. You know, you asked a question about how you know, how do you stay focused on long term? And you kind of have to I mean, it's a juggling game. You have to do both. It's what are the immediate But if you're not thinking about the long term, especially with where the economy may end up, you could find yourself like no longer in existence in terms of a nonprofit. So exactly this is where I think the corporate comes back. You knew. And there are a lot of things I've learned from GE, and this was one of them, you know, because we would do your long plans and we would do 3 to 5 year plans and and having both of those as living documents. So you you knew what your immediate needs were, and that's where you can, you know, rely on your team and, you know, really empower them to go focus on it, while in some ways you're working with your governance board to say. But here's where we need to be 3 to 5 years from that and say, Exactly, you know, are these decisions were making reactionary to the current situation, or are they decisions that just makes sense, you know, and can actually move us forward in terms of our mission

spk_0:   50:22
so well put. And Tina, you your story is justice, compelling as I knew it would be, and I appreciate your kind of your authentic approach. I think that's the most valuable thing. Among the many words of wisdom you've offered, in fact, do you have for profit colleagues that come to you. I guess this kind of as a think of final questions I want to ask you, someone comes up to you and say, Hey, should I make the plunge into non profit? How do you advise somebody like that?

spk_1:   50:55
You know, and I have had conversations with people about that, and, um, you know, I talk about the pros and the cons, you know, like, I actually brand minds matter for eight years while working full time. Um,

spk_0:   51:10
that's amazing.

spk_1:   51:12
And it it was hugely beneficial, and I wouldn't have changed it for the world. But you're making that lead to suddenly become full time. This is have explained it to others. You know, I said it got me out of frankly treading water and allows me the space and the time to be more strategic, you know, to make connections that when you're trying to do this part time, you just don't. You're more in triage mode, you know? So, um but it also happens. You know it has to be. It's every individual's decision. You know where my husband and I were, You know, financially, we were comfortable if it we talked about it together. You know, we knew this would have, you know, an impact on us. Um, financially, because let's be honest, you knew being a VP corporate America, you're gonna get a much higher salary than

spk_0:   52:15
non profit. Exactly.

spk_1:   52:17
Right. It was about who we wanted to be. A and you're only on this earth once. So I feel like I've gotten the best of both worlds. Like I never give up the time I had in corporate America. The the learning, the connections, the challenges, the just the experiences are what I feel set me up to be successful now in this new one. Uh, because I feel like there's a There's a Thanh of Passion and nonprofits. There is no lack of that, but I don't know that there's enough of the the corporate that you know, the process focused, they strategic partnerships focus the Do I have to do it myself, or can I just, you know, work out because that's your strength and this is my strength and So if we look at the life cycle of a young person Wow, now we're impacting him for an even longer time. He knows ability, toe, you know, to double or triple the impact we're having. Um, and there's not enough of that yet. But I think if there's more people done would make that leap, you know, and kind of say, Okay, um, I've done a lot, especially from consulting, you know, And that's sort of what I did in G E for my first, you know, three or four years. Um, because you get to see such a variety of businesses,

spk_0:   53:48
right?

spk_1:   53:49
Those fundamental business skills, um, you know, shifting to a non profit, then I think you will see more, you know, strategic partnerships. I think you will see more collaborative type relationships that I don't think there's enough of right now, you know? So

spk_0:   54:07
great point. And how wonder Tina, though, if if the situation creates an economic downturn of some sort, perhaps nonprofits are gonna be forced to consider what you're suggesting they should be, anyway, which is greater collaborative activity.

spk_1:   54:24
That's true. I mean, you know, necessity is the mother of invention in some ways. Um, but, you know, it's always harder to do it, you know, when it's a crisis. Um, you know, I think that you probably have a winner and a loser, you know, Whereas if you're both coming from, you know, points of strength and abundance, you know your chances and make not, you know, incredibly successful go up tenfold, but

spk_0:   54:51
absolutely right.

spk_1:   54:53
We're gonna have to see what the world you know does and how we do it and, you know, But at the end of day, there's There's no shortage of challenging issues out in the world having talented people that, you know, whether it's part time and they do stuff on weekends. Um, and that's a great way to learn about an organization and see if it's a right fit for you. Um, before you make a big leap, you know, um,

spk_0:   55:22
yeah. Good point. You never Well, Tina, you have been a ah, an absolute gem of advice and resource is for folks that are in non profit or considering it, um, I wonder if you might offer our listeners a parting gift. Um, any books that you would recommend, perhaps on this, you know, the theme of professional development and non profit, or that you would recommend that maybe have helped you along the way.

spk_1:   55:54
Well, I I think I told you, you know, like leadership has always been like one of my passions and tryingto be the best leader than I can and then also bring it out another. So it's not necessary around nonprofit. But the two books that I go back to one is the leadership challenge. Um, and that's by Jim Cruises and very Posner. And just just your fundamental basics, like, how do you you know what? What do you stand for? Is a leader. How do you create a shared vision? How do you challenge the process? How do you encourage the heart? Um, those are the big, you know. And they're just fundamental building blocks of being a leader, you know, for

spk_0:   56:40
applicable to nonprofit to right

spk_1:   56:42
now and then My latest passion is anything by burn a brown.

spk_0:   56:48
Yes. Anyone in particular of her books, I'm

spk_1:   56:53
really stand out. Yeah, I'm reading, daring greatly on actually re reading it. And it just, you know, when she talks about heartedness and coming into it with your your full self. You know, it's everything that we try and and teach Our students knew because yeah, she loves the quote by, you know, Teddy Roosevelt about being in the arena. Um, I'm not caring about the critics who aren't in the arena getting beat up. And, you know, your hope is that everything works out OK, But you know, at a minimum, you have fought hard on you dared greatly on. If we can share that with our students, and if they can truly internalize that on, no doubt the only one that they have to care about is themselves and that their enough exactly how they are. Then we've created a whole new generation of leaders, and that's that's why I do what I do. I mean, I want their voices out there, and I want them to know that it's not the color of the skin. It's not that they speak with an accent, it's none of them. It's who they are deep inside. And both of those books to me come back to. What do I stand for? Is a leader who am I and getting in touch with that? Then you're gonna be powerful because there's only one you

spk_0:   58:22
so well put. Do you know where can people find out more? We'll include those books, certainly in our show notes. Ah, as we can also certainly the website for mines matter L. A. Anywhere else. If someone wants to learn more that you

spk_1:   58:36
would see us,

spk_0:   58:37
they go.

spk_1:   58:38
I mean, that's pretty much, you know, our national site is, you know, just www dot mines matter dot org's, um where www dot mines matter. L a dot org's, but

spk_0:   58:53
little both. That's good. Yeah, good point.

spk_1:   58:55
Now it's every pretty much every major city. We have a chapter. Um, it's a beautiful. Now, I would say that I know you're in North Carolina. We don't have a chapter.

spk_0:   59:07
Well, hey, I've got listeners in North Carolina, but it made me so inspired to

spk_1:   59:11
what should be

spk_0:   59:14
Well, I will happily share the never both national And of course, the good work you're doing in Los Angeles And again really appreciate the words of wisdom you've offered. Thank you, Tina, for joining me on the path.

spk_1:   59:28
It was It was such a pleasure, and I really, really enjoyed it. So thank you. Patent for doing these podcasts because we need it. We learned from each other. It's the power of storytelling.

spk_0:   59:39
Absolutely well, I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Tina as much as I did and came away with some practical ideas about moving into non profit leadership, where simply strategies you can apply to your current role. Don't forget the show notes available on our website patent McDowell dot com, where you can find more about the things Tina and I discussed in particular. But mine's matter Los Angeles is doing and in fact, in other chapters around the country, as always, please share this episode with someone else on the path. And if you haven't already, consider subscribing by going to the podcast page fat McDowell dot com, and you'll see links to Apple Spotify in all of the major podcast platforms. That way, you won't miss any of our weekly episodes, nor will you miss bonus features we've got lined up in the weeks ahead. Thanks for all you're doing in the nonprofit sector, especially right now. And keep up the good work for causes that are most meaningful to you. I'll keep bringing you content that can help you do it even better. Have a great week and I'll see you next time on the path